A HEATED EXCHANGE

Otago Daily Times, Issue 21145, 1 October 1930, Page 8

A HEATED EXCHANGE

MINISTER AND MEMBER. QUESTION OF WAR SERVICE. MR SAMUEL’S PERSONAL EXPLANATION. (Peom Oub Fabuambntabt Repobteb.) WELLINGTON, September 30. Remarkable scenes were witnessed in the House of Representatives this afternoon when Mr A. M. Samuel (Reform member for Thames) accused the Minister of Defence (Mr J. G. Cobbe) and the Minister of Health (Mr A. J. Stallworthy) of being against the defence of the country. The House was thoroughly aroused over a heated passage between the Minister of Defence and Mr Samuel, and at one time cheering and loud applause came from the Government and Labour benches when Mr Cobbe made a vigorous reply and referred to people who spoke of defence matters “hiding themselves a long way from the front.” The incident arose during the discussion of the Defence Department’s Estimates, much time having been • devoted to the Government’s contract with the Colonial Ammunition Company for the supply of small arms ammunition. Mr Samuel said the Minister of Defence owed the country and particularly the Reform Party au apology for the statements .that had been made concerning the contract: This remark . was greeted with a certain amount of laughter from the Government benches. “The silent members of the' Government laugh,” said Mr Samuel. “ That is all they can do. The Ministers of Health and Defence were the only two members of the Government who spoke in disparaging terms of the contract made in 1924, find when it is realised that both these' honourable gentlemen are absolutely against the defence of their country of any sort it can be understood why they voted against it.” / The Minister of Health: That is pure bunk, Mr Samuel added that the two Ministers he had referred to had not been in the House when the contract was discussed by the previous Government. Some of the members of the United Party had' been An the House at the time, and every opportunity was. given for a full discussion of the contract. The 'contract had been laid upon the table from time to time. It was the duty of the Minister of Defence to let the country know that Mr W. Downie Stewart, when Minister of Finance, had saved the country £25,000 a year when the contract was renewed in 1024, The Minister knew perfectly well that statements about the. contract were being used for electioneering purposes, and that lull use had been made of them in WaipaWa. ; Mr Cobbe said that when a Bill was brought down in favour of a voluntary movement the member for Thames had Voted against it. (Government, cries of “ Blown out! ”). “ Yet he is the one who dares to eay I am. against the 1 defence of my country,” the Minister added. _ The Minister of Labour (Mr ,S. G. Smith)';,He will say anythingl “ Probably no member of this House has suffered more or lost 1 more as a result of the war than I have,” Mr Cobbe said. .“One of my eons was left lying dead and the other was wounded, and people who ‘ talk about defence matters wore hiding themselves a long way from the front. No member of this House has. a right to'refer to me in reference to:my action. It is the sort of thing I have never heard in this House, and I am sorry this House should have descended to it.” ' Loud applause and a few cheers broke out as the Minister sat down. * . “I want to know whether this ‘dope’ that appears in the Estimates is the sort of stun that the member for Thames has been scattering about, Waipawa recently,” said Mr D, M’Dougall (United member for. Mathura), amid laughter. The chairman (Mr W. A. Bodkin); Order! “ Or is it the dope he scatters about this House?" asked Mr M'Dougall. Again calling Mr M'Dougall to order, the chairman refused to allow him to proceed, and he sat down, Mr F. Waite (Reform member for, Clutha) said that many . people had lost relatives in the war. - , Mr W, E. Barnard (Labour member for Napier) : Piny the game! " There is certainly a question of playing tho game,’’ said'Mr Waite. “ I must asked the honourable member to confine his remarks to thd Estimates,” said the chairman. “I'have allowed a certain amount of latitude, and it seems to.me the position is getting right out of' hand. . ‘ ' ‘ ■Mr Waite said there, was a possibility of a force having to go overseas, and anyone who had kept in touch wtih events in India and elsewhere would acknowledge that. Mr Barnard;. Do you want them to go? . V' Mr Waite; I am not saying I want them to go, but there is a chance or else why vote £1 for the defence forces.— (“Hear, heart”), The defence of this country is not going to be here but overseas. Everyone who keeps in touch 'with the problems of to-day knows that they are overseas problems, and I say that if these forces are only going to defend New Zealand within New Zealand then every pound spent on naval, land and air defence is wasted. Mr Waite said he had a right to ask that troops going overseas should have sufficient ammunition and equipment. At present there were not enough gas masks for a force going abroad, and he considered this a crime. Mr M'Dougall: But we have plenty of gas. “This is far too serious to take any notice of the member for Mataura,” retorted Mr Waite. “ In the first place, I am sorry if 1 hurt the Minister’s feelings with my ' remarks regarding his attitude on defence,” said Mr Samuel, replying later to Mr Cobbe. “I stated that he and the Minister of Health were against defence. Mr Stallworthy; That is absolutely untrue. “ I have no knowledge of what relatives the Minister had at the war, but I want to say that he is in a no more peculiar position in regard to that than other people,” Mr Samuel said. “I would have forgiven him and. said nothing because I can understand a man getting a little hot under the collar if his patriotism is questioned; but the Minister said something about somebody being behind the lines, I want to ask the Minister if he meant anybody in particular.” There were cheers from the Minister’s own party. “ I want to remind him of an attack made upon me before in this connection and I want to know what his remarks meant,” said Mr Samuel. The Minister of Labour: If the cap fits— . “I am in the peculiar position of once again having to explain myself,” Mr Samuel said. “There are six members of our family, and four of them were at the Boer War and five of them were in the last war, and everyone did his duty. So far as I am concerned I have nothing to hide. I was in command of a regiment and I carried out my duties according to orders. So far as being behind the lines was concerned I commanded my regiment for the last six weeks on Gallipoli and during the evacuation. I was also mentioned in despatches. The Minister of Education smiles sneeringly as usual. He might have something to smile about, but I

meni area. am etating facts. I would not have brought this under the notice of the House at all if the Minister had not mentioned something about being behind the lines. Perhaps some of his own members were." At this stage the chairman ordered members to confine their remarks strictly to the estimates, and the question lapsed.