PARLIAMENT.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 20591, 14 December 1928, Page 10

PARLIAMENT.

YESTERDAY’S PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. (Pm United Puess Association,) •> WELLINGTON, December IS. The House of Representatives met at 2.00 p.m. QUESTIONS. ; Upon formal busiaess being called on, 'the Prime Minister (Sir Joseph Ward) intimated that Minister* did not propose at that sitting to answer questions put. without notice. Later he proposed to ask the House to adjourn and’ meet again at 7.30 p,m„ when be would place before members an Important BUI which he would ask them to put through and pass all stage* before rising. Mr ,P. Fraser (Wellington Central) asked if the Government proposed to answer questions to-morrow, or whether it proposed to complete the business of the session to-night. There were, one or two important matters requiring settlement. Sir Joseph Ward, in reply, said that at night be’proposed to put through necessary legislation. If the hon. gentleman had one particular matter in view he would ask him to wait until he (Sir Joseph Ward) had an opportunity of making a statement. He might then find that there would be no, necessity to put his question. , THE HOUSE ADJOURNS. When the formal business had been completed Sir Joseph Ward said hu proposed to ask the House to adjojum till His reason was that an important Bill was in course of preparation.. Mr W. Downje Stewart; An Appropriation Bill? ■ Sit Joseph Ward: Yes, an Appropriation Bill, and it cannot ho put before his Excellency until 5.30 p.m. He did not wish to go into . details, because there was no need to make two speeches, but at 7.30, in the course of an.hoar’s speech, he thought he would he able to explain its provisions. . , ; Mr H. E. Holland (Buffer) : Does the Prime Minister hope to finish the business to-night?

Sir Joseph Ward; Yes. He said liu thought his proposals would : bo so universally acceptable that there would be no difficulty in finishing to-night. Mi P. Fraser (Wellington Central) pointed out that this was Thursday, and his Rent Restriction Continuance Bill was at the top of the Order Paper. Sir Joseph Ward, interposing, said that if it would relieve the mind of the hon.' gentleman he might say that the S utter .was provided for In the Bill to me down to-night. Mr Fraser accepted this assurance, and at -.55 the House rose till 7.30. EVENING SESSION. When the House resumed in the evening every seat in the galleries was occupied, and there Was a tefise interest displayed by members ‘ when the Prime Minister rose to address the House. FINANCE BILL INTRODUCED. , Sir Joseph Ward said he was at one time of opinion that the House might have to meet again in February. Since then he had had an opportunity of going into the financial position of the Dominion, and that position had been confirmed by the advice of the most important financial officers of the' Crown. He was now of opinion if the House would agree to the proposals which he desired shortly to lay before it they might adjourn imWinitely, but in such a way that the House could be called together should certain contingencies arise. , Proceeding to discuss the financial position of the country, he said that up to the end of November the expenditure showed an excess over the revenue of £064,014.- This was the usual state of things at this period of "the.year. The position had considerably improved during the last four weeks, but he doubted if the surplus at the, end of the year would be„ as great as was-estimated. On the whole, he was satisfied with the position of'the country.’, He had examined the borrowing authorities available and had had

them checked by figures supplied by officers of the’; Crown. The legislation to he submitted that night rfrould increase the expenditure under some of those authorities. ‘ He proposed to give special attention to advances to settlers and to arrears. , The rates of interest were tending to, fall; and he was examining the position to see whether the lending rates could not be reduced. It was proposed to make advances to Maori farmers! under the supervision of Maori boards. He also proposed to have a considerable,sum made.available for railway eonatniction. which would include ' the East Coast line, the Stratford line, the Westport-Iriangahualine, and another section of the Midland line. Half ; a million froni revenue would also be set r aside for this purpose, and so soon as the route of the South Island Main Trunk line was determined that work would also he started. This expenditure on railway construction was estimated at about, £7,300,000, but it must he understood that portions of the routes were! not yet surveyed. He proposed to ask the House to increase the authority to borrow to £1,000,000 per annum for the purpose of lands for settlement, and this would he done without unnecessary delay. In the administratvon of these loans the present policy of the department would be to adhere to, and preference would be given to those requiring money for new settlement and new homes. Original loans would thus have preference over the repayment of old loans. These loans would be on a table system, and he thought this system would yet have .to be adapted to large private; lenders. So far as unemployment was concerned he proposed to ask the House to provide £400,000 for relief work and put the present 3000 men on public works on railway construction in the country. Provided they were physically fife J, e proposed a .J : 18111 not »« and 12s a day, but 14s a day. In the towns it was proposed to ask the local bodies to make up the difference in pay between the 0s and 32s and the 14s proposed by him. The (existing subsidies to local bodies would be continued where they were required. These, roughly, were the proposals which the Government desired , 0 ■ carr - v ou t> and they were going to be done. He anticipated no difficulty in procuring the necessary, capital during the next six months. At present certain London trrnsactions were pendinir, and until they were settled he did not think it wise' to roly on the London market for money; but he could see his way:clear to get what money he required, although some of it would have to be found in New Zealand. Their policy was a big one. and they were not going to halt in carrying it out. There would bo no delay., They were setting their course ' within three days of coming into office, and more could not be expected. He moved to introduce a Bill which would give effect to that policy. The Bill was introduced by GovernorGenerals Message, Sir Joseph Ward subsequently explaining that it contained one matter not relating to finance, ‘it provided for rent restriction continuance legislation till Au-pist next. The Finance Bill was rcoiTa first time, urgency being claimed tor the measure. •THE BILL DISCUSSED.

On tins motion that the Bill bo. read a second time, 1 Mr Contes said he thought they wore entitled to more time to consider the

measure and the policy which it contained. Sir Joseph Ward, he said, proposed to increase the borrowing authorities, but 1.,. Ijad not said a word about what that borrowed money would cost. From the platform he had stated that this money could be got by the people at 4J per cent., but not a word had been said about that to-night. Sir Joseph Ward had to some extent covered up the position by referring to some problem arising out of hand in the transactions. That was clever, but it did not explain why he had not told the House .that he could borrow af per cent, and lend out at 4} per cent. He (the speaker) agreed with the proposal to clear up the arrears in the Advances Office, and his Government would have done so had it been returned. In detailing his railway construction scheme, Sir Joseph Ward had mentioned only four lines, and had given estimates of the tost. Those estimates were too low. The work could never be done on the terms quoted. '• His experience was that it was always wise to add a fraction to the estimate and endeavour to keep f<> that. The South Island Main Tru ) line should be deferred till Parlaimeut met again, by which time there would be an .opportunity to examine the facts and figures submitted concerning this lino. 1 his opinion this line would never pay, and would always be a charge on the country. It was in a quite different position from the North Island Main Trunk line, which connected two large centres of population. This, the South Island would • not do, nor would it open any great extent of new land and no great amount of development would take place. He did not think in these circumstances that this should be the first work put in hand. It would simply be piling up liabilities and burdens for posterity, and perhaps for the present generation. New Zealand had not made many mistakes in her railways in the past and these means of communication had assisted development enormously; but because we were on a good footing to-day tl;at was not to say we , should swallow any policy enunciated from the, platform. Caution must be exercised, and that was 1 the case in connection with the Soutli Island Main Trunk line. If the rates of pay to the men were to be increased more work would have to be found, and the number of men would increase. If this was to be completed in four years what was to he done with all these men when there was no more work?’ \ An hon. member: That will be your job. , ; ■ ' Mr Coates said he was afraid it would. In reply to a further interjection he said .that ho did not know what steps could be, taken to prevent men from coming in from Australia. Proceeding, he askgd Sir Joseph Ward what he proposed to do about the North Auckland Main Trunk line and the Taupo-Rotorua and other lines. He further asked whether Sir Joseph proposed to go on with tl;e .South Island line before the House met again, what investigation he proposed to make in connection with that line, and whether he would make publicthe results of, that investigation? So far as roads were concerned Sir Joseph Ward Was asking for, a blank cheque. No details were given. No one knew where these roads were, arid they should know. Ho asked that time should be given to members to become better acquainted with the details of the Bill. They should have a few speeches and then adjourn till the morning so that .the expenditure could be more carefully considered. The Leader of the Labour Party (Mr H. E. Holland) said that If an adjournment were contemplated it should he made uow. He was surprised that the Leader of the Opposition had expressed any doubt about the ability to raise the money on hand on the market, because he had not taken up that attitude when he was Prime Minister.

Mr Coates replied that he had not expressed any doubt about raising the money on hand. Continuing, Mr Holland said that Mr Coates’s attitude towards the South Island Main Trunk Line was also surprising, because he could remember Mr Coates promising a deputation to have a survey made, and the deputation went sway thinking that it had got something. He (Mr Holland) advocated the speedy completion of the . Westport-Inangahua line. It was surprising to find Mr Coates questioning the accuracy of Public Works Estimates. That he never did while at the Head of his Government. He (the speaker) wanted to see railways built that would carry goods to an economic market. Ha did not think that Sir Joseph Ward would have any difficulty in raising the money required. The rate at whick.-he could raise it might be another matter. Unemployment wa s largely due to the immigration policy of the Reform Government. He agreed with the proposal to raa>e the rate of pay . on relief works in the country, and did not think there was any-danger of'Australian unemployed coming over and deeding the country. He regretted that the same liberal policy was not being extended to the towns. Tile Bill contained nothing,new. It was made up of election promisee. He saw no reason why the money should not be raised in- New 'Zealand, and he could not understand should not be done. He did not disagree with the policy enunciated m regard to advances to settlers. That was sound so Ja r as it. went, but he was bound to say that Sir Joseph Ward’s speech at Auckland had created the impression that money was to be available not only for new settlement but to pay ofi existing mortgages. He found that impression -to exist everywhere, and unless that were done he was afraid Sir Joseph Ward would find that he was not able to help himself very much. Continuing he expressed satisfaction that the rent restriction continuance legislation was to be re-enacted. This would give breathing time till the House could meet next year, Mr W. Dowiiie Stewart said he did not propose to discuss Sir Joseph Ward’s statement from the point of view of the criticism of the Leader of the Opposition, but he wanted to say that he was confident that when the-finances of the year were completed it would he found that the revenue and expenditure would show a well-balanced Budget. Sir Joseph Ward had claimed that he used to have heavy surpluses, but that was while,he was treasurer in the National Government when the rate of taxation was very heavy. The position was different now, unless there was a considerable reduction in expenditure or an increase in revenue the surpluses could not again be as heavy. With regard to the’“arrears in the Advances Office he pointed out that many of these were merely applications, some of which could never be granted, so there must be a heavy -writing-off of these. He did not favour wholesale loans for houses, for the shortage was nearly caught up not, perhaps, in Wellington and Auckland; but elsewhere there was practically no shortage of houses. He did not agree with Sir Joseph Ward’s estimate of what was necessary to keep the Advances Office going, especially the rural credits branch which had* been established, but Sir Joseph Ward had not said how he proposed to co-ordinate the operations of these two departments. He agreed that new loans should have preference, but Sir Joseph Ward did not say that when the arrears were wiped out the interest was going to be reduced to per cent. He predicted that a new crop of arrears would grow up as soon as the old one was cleared off, and they would never catch up if it was known that the department was going to try and provide for everyone. Some thought that the cure for this was to pour millions into this department, but he did not agree with this. In view, of the heavy commitments in other directions he had tried to keep down loan expenditure. The policy outlined by Sir Joseph Ward was the first departure from the cautious policy followed by the Reform Party which had done so much to keep the credit of the country in London so bright. If Sir Joseph Ward was not going to borrow more than the Reform Government had borrowed then the people had been misled, and if ho was

going to do so then ha (Mr Stewart) did not agree with him. Mr J. 0 Brian (Westland) said ha was disappointed with the statement made by Sir Joseph Ward. It had node of the old Liberal ring about it f and nothing was heard of increased pensions or a better standard of living. Relief works pay-in the towns should be increased as well as in the country. If loans were not given to pay • off existing mortgages Sir Joseph Ward would find more men walking off the land than he could put ou it. D. Jones (Mid-Canterbury) said that Sir Joseph Ward was asking the House to give him a blank cheque for six months, and bo did not think the House should do so. Sir Joseph Ward’s speech was disappointing because it did not bear out hig election promises. His promises had won the election for the United Party, but what had become of his millions fur settlers at 43 par cent.? Moreover, he was not going- to help the man with an existing mortgage because both the now and the old mortgage could not bo found at once. The borrowing policy of the United Party had been absolutely repudiated by its leader’s speech that night. Mr M. J. Savage (Auckland West) put in a.plea for the unemployed in Auckland, Thera were 700 men out of work in that city, he said, and it was only three weeks from Christmas. Men employed on relief work in the towns should receive the same rates of pay as men employed in the country. Mr A. Harris (Waitemata) said that when the first proposals of the Government fell far short of its election pledges the question was at once raised whether other planks of its platform would be given effect to. He asked Sir Joseph Ward to redeem his pledge to give the people £60,000,0X30 at 4J per cent, without cost to the taxpayer. Mr D. G. Sullivan (Avon) said that while Sir Joseph Ward waa evidently sympathetic with the unemployed his proposals were inadequate. Wliat did he propose to do in the Meantime to provide employment while his officers were preparing his large public works scheme 1 > Mr J, T. Hogan (Rangitikei) urged the necessity for providing money to keep the fanners on the land as well a® new loans for new settlers. Re-finance waa as important as new finance. Mr IP. Waite (Cluthaj declared that the United Party was evidently finding some difficqlty in materialising the money of the wild promisee made on the platforjnThe “ wizard of finance ” was evidently not equal to the occasion. The debate was carried on by Messrs C. H. Chapman (Wellington North), E. J. Howard (Christchurch South), and P. Langstone (Waimarino), who supported the Bill and by M r H. S. S. Kyle (Riocarton), who gave it qualified support.

(Left sitting.)