GOVERNMENT DEFEATED

Otago Daily Times, Issue 20586, 8 December 1928, Page 14

GOVERNMENT DEFEATED

FIFTY, VOTES TO TWENTY-EIGHT I ' • . \ PRIME MINISTER’S SPEECH. TRIBUTES FROM OPPOSING LEADERS. ADJOURNS TILL TUESDAY. ’( Precisely at noon yesterday the division took place on Sir Joseph Ward's amendment to the , Address-m-Reply. As was . expected the Government was defeated by the combined votes ’ - , ■of the United and -Labour Parlies. ’ • In a. speech closing the debate the Prime Minister traversed ..... the work of the Reform Government during its long tenure of .. office.' His bearing and demeanour in the hour of defeat evoked the admiration and respect of all sides of the House, and when the result of the division had been announced Sir Joseph ~ . .Ward, and Mr H. E. Holland, the. respective leaders of the opposing parties, paid him a notable personal tribute. Mr Coates went to Government House in the evening and handed in to his Excellency the Governor-General the resignation .of Himself and his Ministers, : His Excellency will no doubt send for Sir Joseph Ward in due course and ask if he is willing to form a Cabinet. Meantime. ’ until Sir Joseph Ward's Cabinet is sworn in, Mr Coates and his colleagues must remain in office. /. ' The House stands adjourned till 2,3.0 pim. on Tuesday.

A PERSONAL TRIUMPH. PRIME MINISTER’S SPEECH. ADMIRATION OF HOUSE EVOKED. ‘ OPPOSING. LEADERS , PAY •<•:/. TRIBUTE. tl’iiii vixso. Phkss Association.) WELLINGTON, December 7. , Interest in the political situation was maintained to-day, althou"’ there was no ; ; uncertainty as to what would happen. ■The ladies’-galleries were quickly crowded and late comers, were-turned away. As ROpn’.as prayers were said there was a ■ rush, for the men’s galleries. > f The .Prime. Minister (Mr J. G. Coates) said :he , had some further papers to lay •on the table, and ,on this occasion Sir . Joseph ; Ward- raised no objection, though he ’complained' that no member ; would be in a position ■ to. discuss the reports. The, papers were laid on the table, except one which, -not being'printed, was read by the Minister of Health (Mr J. A. Young), ' • . ' PRIME MINISTER’S SPEECH. ( Mr Coates' then "proceeded ' with his s speech which was to close the Address-in-Rcpiy debate. . He.aaid that Sir Joseph Ward had gone to,', a. great deal of trouble to try to show . that he(the-, speaker) had -delibe.-lely misrepresented ’him,, but he would quote, , from i newspaper j reports of Sir Joseph Ward,’h- speeches to prove that he had not done anything deliberate as alleged. . The Auckland. Star . had reported Sir Joseph Ward as stating, that the United Party's, borrowing proposals were to be given effect to in one year. Mr E. A. Ransom (Pahiatua): Did you not attempt to repeat it after the correct . . account appeared? Mr Coates: No. He was disappointed that s>ir Joseph Ward had not enunciated his proposals,when speaking,in the House yesterday. Sir Joseph could have covered more ground, and the country expected him to do so. Sir Joseph bad said at the end of tbe campaign that works would- be carried on gut of surpluses, but that was , a matter requiring careful consideration, because surpluses might not exist. If the railways were going to be completed in , ' , four years an expenditure of £24,600,000 would be necessary.. The railways could jiot.be completed in four or 10 years, and he would like Sir Joseph to remember that a very careful survey of the economic returns should be made before dev finite and final instructions were given for the completion Of the line®. “I say that, with a definite sepse of responsibility,” said Mr Coates. “ The day when we can spend money haphazard is just about gone.”. '• Mr .W. J. Broadfoot (Waitomo): Just about finished.- I—(Laughter.) 1 —(Laughter.) Mr Qoatej paid (hat/rem big point of view the electors had a very poor conception of the economic effect -of - the : completion of lines, ' and that was why ho urged that a complete survey of the whole situation was necessary.'■ Referring to the Gisborne line, Mr -Coates said that that showed on investigation, a return of 4 per cent, on expenditure, but it all depended on the way in which the expenditures was handled. He believed the work could bo done more satisfactorily by a system of labour contracts, and he thought the people would take some notice of his remarks. Mr J. S. Fletcher (Grey Lynn): What about Mangahao? Mr Coates: Mangahao is a perfectly sound proposition. The Prime Minister went on to refer to the possibilities of the railway lines which were in hia programme at the present time. Mr ,F. Langstone (Wairaadno); The Rolorua-Tanpo line will never pay tor axle grease^ Mr Coates said it was necessary to exercise great care in estimating whether a certain railway was going to pay interest on the cost of construction. The whole matter, required very careful investiga tion. . The Government which threw money away was not doing its duty as the trustee of the peonle’s money. Mr Coates said they should be careful that the right tiling was being done in carrying put works. Contractors had done much work in New Zealand, but it must be remembered that this was a difficult countrv to work. New Zealand had great iiiihtral resources, Mr W. J. Broadfoot (Waitomo) ; Excepting a good Government.

Mr R. A, Wright: Wc arc going to get a worse, one.

Coates paid a tribute to the capacity of New Zealand engineers. Mr P. Langstone (Walmarino) : Why were you'so keen to let contracts? Mr Coates: We. gave it a trial because tnere was a general cry throughout the country, that,we should let contracts. They must not forget the labour contractors in New Zealand. -

Sir Joseph Ward: Nobody proposes to do away with them. They can work for Other people ; with anybody else. The Prime Minister said that while he wished Sir Joseph Ward nl( sorts of luck on hjs contracts, he- would .find out on examination, that the /present Govern* meat’s system was’the right'one. There were -men in this country who, with engineers to.advise them, were competent to take - the largest: contract in the country: So long as there was competition no. one could find fault with the system. The moment' the labour .contract and tender system was ..eliminated no one could say what the cost would- be, "and when the . work would be completed. Mr W. E. Parry (Auckland Central) : You are making a good speech now. The Priiuo Minister ; Has the honourable gentleman ever heard me make a bad one?—(Laughter.) Mr ,F. Langstone: Some awful speeches. —.(Laughter.)

Mr D. G. Sullivan (Avon) : Have the labour contractors beaten the Government tenders?■.

"“ la most cases, yes,” replied Mr Coates. “I. think it is the best system. It was not £2,250,000 a year that Sir Joseph Ward had to, provide for railway construction purposes for foi!p years. Sir Joseph Ward would have to find not £10,000,000, but £24,500,000. To' complete the railways hydro-electric works, and other public works £120,000,000 would be what Sir Joseph Ward would have to find.

Referring to the £60,000,000 loan which Sir Joseph Ward proposed to< raise for settlers, Mr Coates said that during the campaign ho had stated that if returned he would bring, the applications up to date; but the point was that the moment.they adopted Sir Joseph Ward's scheme the'State would for all time Eeccme the only lender so'far as the settlers were concerned,' and in Ms humble judgment that was a mistake. Mr Coates said the Government's policy seemed to hiu to bo very clear—gradually but definitely to get down .to the position of enabling the Dominion to finance itself. Sir Joseph Ward: In New Zealand? Mr. Coates: Yes. Sir Joseph Ward: Did you advocate that? . ' " That. was the policy wc had in view," replied the Prime Minister. Sir Joseph Ward: I should, say you meant wreckage ,for the country. Mr. Coates said he did not think so. Sir Joseph Ward: You ask the business men. from end to end of New Zealand.'? Mr Coates said he thought of the business men, the farmers, the. workers—everybody. "I still say," he added, "that it is a bad thing for the country if.money for investment goes out of it. It is a matter that requires. very careful consideration." . Mr E. A. Ransom (Pahiatua): Is it not a fact that large sums are going out at the present time? "It is a fact to some extent," said Mr GoatGS. ,"I Sflid toihg the election campaign that we were in for a reduced rate of interest." There was more money in New Zealand . for investment to-day than he could remember.

Mr W. J. Broadfoot (Waitomo) What, on land?

The Prime Minister: For investment. The money that Sir Joseph Ward proposed to raise would be used for the purpose of meeting mortgages that already existed at a lower rate of interest. Sir Joseph Ward: That is a very good thing to do, too. ,

Mr Coates submitted that the rate of interest was not, the only problem facing the primary producer to-day. Mr W. J. Poison (Stratford) : High costs. .

Mr E. A.. Ransom (Pahiatua) ; Shortdated mortgages and rates of interest

Mr Goates: If money is at 4} per cent, plus 1 per cent, sinking fund that docs not get over the difficulty the farmer has to face. Valuation, high costs, and the prices were the difficulties with wnich the farmers had to contend, said Mr Coates. Costs had soared much higher than prices, and one of the greatest problems was that of rating on rural lands. The Government would have tackled that If it had Ijecn returned to office, for it was realised that the small farmer was by no means in a prosperous condition to-duy. In the last few years the Reform Government had done much to reduce the cost of transportation so for ns the tamo* wan concerned, mainly in the direction of providing new railway lines and better roads. New Zealand to-day was probably more up to date In

these respects than any similar country at the present time. “The Leader of the United Party/' declared Mr Coates, “will get a measure of support from me if he becomes Prime Minister, 1 That is, so far as- his £60,000,000 is concerned. Personally, I think he would be wise if ho devoted a portion of the money-to the development of land which at the present time is not producing anything. Sir Joseph Ward; If I am allowed to do so-1 propose to set up two lands for settlement boards, -

Mr Coates:. Well, if the Loader of the United Party does that I will' say this to him, “.Don’t matj the boards too wide; make them ,local as far as possible.” So far as land settlement is concerned I do not think that borne of the proposals I have heard on the hustings will get you very far. Before anything is done }t will be necessary to have, a reclassification of. the whole country. It is a huge job, and jt is going to take a long time. If you are going to take up a : lot of sepond-ilass land it is going to require an immense amount. of capital. What is wanted is the settlement of a lot of small farmers. ■. If that-is done it will tj cheaper and more successful, . Attention should-first of all be directed to land which is not producing anything, and I think before the House is,very much older members will come to think along those lines.

Mr-Lee Martin (Raglan) : Why break a man’s heart on.it? Mr Coates; Despite the interjection I hope I may lay claim to some practical knowledge of farming. I have been born and bred a farmer, X am -till a farmer, and I always will be one. For many, many years the'needs of the primary producer must be the first consideration of every , honourable member. It is the primary producer on whom you have to depend for the money that is borrowed. I am placing these-thoughts of mine on record in all good faith and with every frankness. My duty—and the duty of every member—is. to the country first. I will place the country and my duty to the country before my duty, to my’ party on each and every occasion. I honestly believe that that is the opinion of every hon. gentleman around me. New Zealand is my country. I have worked for it, and I will continueto work for it as long as’the people want me to do so.

After denying the allegation by Sir Joseph Ward that 300 railway workers had been transferred. for political purposes the Prime Minister went on to refer to the record-of the Government. “No one in_ the House,” he declared, " unless he is biased can say that the Government has shown political favour in regard to appointments. We have appointed men to the Legislative Council who are ail shades of opinion. Mr H. EL Holland: You have never appointed a Labour man. Mr Coates: There are Laboift 1 men in the Council.

Mr Holland: There has never been a representative of Labour appointed. “Would the hon. gentleman suggest •that Mr J. Barr .is hot a representative of.Labour,” Mr'Coatcs asked? ■Mr Holland: There are no trades unionists.

The Prime Minister also mentioned the names of Mr W. Earnshaw and Mr W. H. M'lntyrc. ■ Mr Holland: Mr MTntyro is not a member of the Labour'Party. He is a supporter of your party. Mr Coates: If that is so he shows a considerable amount of discretion and commonsensc.”— (Reform applause.) , The Prime Minister said the Government had shown the same impartiality in regard to judicial appointments, both upper - and lower, and appointments to various l boards. It had tried to select the best men on every occasion, and more particularly had it tried to make for clean and sound administration.

Discussing Samoa, the Prime Minister urged members to leave the administration to the present Administrator. The country could repose absolute confidence in Mr S. S. Allen's fair play, justice and capacity. He would see that the highest traditions of. British . administration were always carried out in Samoa. Turning t*. ■ the question of invalidity pensions and family allowances the Prime Minister said it was impossible for the Government to estimate what the. family allowance scheme would actually cost. The estimated cost was about £250,000 a year. . The amount paid out had not come to anything like their expectations. He expressed the opinion that the form of. administration laid down would prove of value to many more families. If it .had had an opportunity the 'Government intended to increase the amount.

Mr Coates reviewed the position that had arisen during and since the depression and the problems he had had to face on assuming the oflice of Prime Minister. He had not sought to enunciate spectacular schemes, but had had to take careful stock of the position. The situation had to bb surveyed from the point of view of the best interests of the country. It, was possible, however, that the good work of, his colleagues had not' been •recognised by ; the electo.s, but the policy adopted by, the .Government was one that would have been adopted oy any sensible body of men in the interests of the country. “ To-day,” said Mr Coates, “ wc are able to hand over our stewardship in a way that is nothing but creditable to those , who have administered the country and who have been responsible for bringing about a change in our national life. The prospects for the future appear to be good, generally speaking. We have come through .a, trying time.- It called for incessant work and no member of the Cabinet, myself included; over let up. If hard work and attention - to duty is worth anything we are more than satisfied with the, results, which wc arc able to present to this Parliament and the country. 1 believe when the mists of controversy blow away and the electors see clearly the work that has been accomplished the people will recomuse the good work done by the Government and that you have had an honest, sound, progressive- and administrate...”

For the amendment (50). Armstrong. M’Dougall. Atmore. M’Keen. Barnard. . . Macpherson, Black. Makitanara. Bodkin. Martin . Broadfoot. Mason, £| arr - Munns. Chapman. Munro. Clinkard. Murdoch. Cobbe. Ngata. Perrelle, , . OBrien. - Donald. Parry. . Fletcher. Poison. Fraser. Ransom. Lorbes. Rushworth. Hawke. Savage. Healy. Semple, • ' Smith. .Holland, H, E, Stalhvorthy. . Howard. Sullivan. Jenkins. Taverner. Langstone. Veitch. Bye. Ward. M Combs. Wilford, i M Donald. ' Wilkinsofl. Against the amendment (28). Ansell. Kyle, Bitchener, Linklator. Burnett. Lysnar. Campbell. Macmillan. Coates. Massey. Dickie. Nash. I'leld. Pomare. '' § a ll\: ■ Samuel. Hamilton. Stewart. Harris. Sykes. Henare Waite. Holland, H. Williams. Hunter. Wright. Jones. Young. FORMALITIES OP PROCEDURE. The formalities in connection with the framing of a reply to the GovernorGeneraTa speech were then gone through, and finally the reply was adopted, with this significant paragraph at the end “ In conclusion, we deem it our duty to reprgsent tc\ your Excellency that your Excellency’s advisers do not possess tlic confidence of this House,”

The Speaker announced that his Excellency would receive the address at 12.50 p.tn., and the House rose at 12.15 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. When the House met in the afternoon the Speaker reported that together with the mover and seconder of the Addrcss-in-Repiy and other members he had waited upon his Excellency, the GovernorGeneral) who had been pleased lo make a suitable reply, concluding: " I fully recognise that it is essential that my advisers should possess the confidence of the House of Representatives, and in view of your assurance that they do not possess that confidence I will take measures for the formation of a new Administration.

On the motion of the Prime Minister his Excellency’s message was ordered to be recorded in the journals of the House. The Prime Minister said that in view of the decision arrived at by the House, it would be his duty to tender the resign nation of the Government to his Excellency, the Governor-General, and that course he proposed to take just as soon as it was convenient to his Excellency. TRIBUTES TO MR COATES. Sir Joseph Ward .said that on behalf of the United Party he wanted to express appreciation of the kindly offer made by Mr Coates in the course of a very good speech. Ho thought the whole House would recognise the difficulties of the position in which Mr Coatee was placed. Such a thjng came to everybody i who was in politics for a long time, and it was a source of gratification that Mr Coates, on, probably the last occasion he held the position he had occupied bo honourably, should express such kindly sentiments as ho had done. Sir Joseph added that some time after the House reassembled he would make a statement On some important matters. He was not going to say anything further at that stage. r At the moment he felt he was unable to say whether another session would be necessary. He wanted to avoid It in the interests of the House and of the country, and ho hoped that when ho was in a position to speak with authority to be able to make a proposal regarding ins policy and how he proposer to act. 'Mr Holland also paid a tribute to Mr Coates as a clean fighter. “Wo have had to fight and we fought with the gloves off,” said Mr Holland. “Every fighter likes another fighter, and when the ‘ scrap 1 is over friendship remains the same. 1 want to express my appreciation, and, I am sure, the appreciation of eVcry member of the party' on these benches, of the manner in which the Prime Minister has accepted defeat and the decision of this House.—(“ Hear, hear.”) lam sure he will forgive mo if I say that he never appeared to better advantage even in the moment of his most decisive victory than in the hour of defeat to-day.” Mr Holland referred to the dignified manner in which Mr Coates had met the position and the sportsmanlike manner- in which he had accepted the decision of the House. . , .

Sir Apirana Ngata, speaking on behalf of the Maori people, thanked Mr Coates for all lie had done in the interests of the Maoris. His actions would not be lightly thought of in the years to come. , TRIBUTES ACKNOWLEDGED.

Mr Coates said the remarks! made concerning him were most unexpected. He had received so many bricks during recent months that he had not thought he would receive any bouquets across the floor of the House. He would'ever remember the kind remarks which had been made. No doubt they would cross swords in the future, but they could always look forward to the fact that they did in the House was not allowed to ■ interfere with their friendships outside the House. If the attitude he had. taken up was beyond expectations lie was more than grateful because, judging-by the speeches made during the campaign, he had thought lie was a long way below expectations. Mr Coates ■ said he was very much touched by the kind remarks. Ho paid a tribute to the assistance which he had received at all times from Sir Apirana Ngata.. .On Tuesday, concluded Mr Coates, he would like to have an opportunity of making a ’short statement as to the attitude which the Reform Party would take up in regard, to Sir Joseph Ward’s administration. , -

1 Discussing the civil service salary “ cuts," the Prime Minister said it would have been most improper for him to promise to restore “cuts” on the eve of a general election! Concluding his speech, Mr Coates' expressed the hope that members of the Government would be able to renucr assistance to those who followed mem. "If any difficult problem arises, 1 ’ said Mr Coates, “ I hope there will b c no hesitation in sending for me and 1 will give my opinion on the question for what it is worth. I may have some ideas that may b e of ,use in spite of what has been said during the election. I don’t care twopence for what was said during the election, for it was said in the heat of the.moment. I sincerely trust that I hav e never hit below the belt. I have tried not to, and I hope every other hon. gentleman has done the same. I have no rancour and no resentment. I have only this request to make: We have several important problems ahead of us, notably those in regard to the Maori race, and I want to tell the new > T tive Minister that I will be willing to give every assistance. It should not be treated as a party question. There are the reports of various commissions. In my jqdgment some of the recommendations will want altering. The Maoris are part and parcel of our community. They are our brothers and sisters, and_ should be treated with every consideration. Progress in connection with them may be gradual, but it must be definite.” THE DIVISION LIST. The division was taken precisely at noon on Sir Joseph Ward’s amendment in a House tense with interest and in the presence of galleries crowded in every quarter. The division resulted in the amendment being carried by 50 votes to 28. the diviBlOn list heimr aa follows:

The House adjourned at 2.45 p.m, until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday.

A DIGNIFIED UTTERANCE. At, a -meeting of the Reform members of Parliament held after the adjournment at. 12,15 p.m. a resolution was unanimously passed recording the highest appreciation of the dignified, manly, and statesmanlike speech delivered. in the House by Mr Coates. It was felt, that the speech was the finest effort Mr Coates had made since he assumed the leadership of the Reform Party in the House. THE NEW CABINET. . SPECULATION, REGARDING PERSONNEL. (Special to Daily times.) WELLINGTON, December 7. _So far Sir Joseph Ward is keeping his own counsel regarding his Cabinet, The general opinion, for what it is worth, places Mr E. A. Ransom, Mr G. W. Forbes, Mr T. M. Wilford, Sir Apirana Ngata, Mr W. A. Veitch, Mr W. B. Taverner and Mr H. Atmore as almost certain to be included. Some have doubts about Mr Taverner and Mr Atmore. Other members suggested for possible preferment are Mr P. A. de la Perrelle, Mr A. J. Murdoch) Mr J. G. Cobbe, Mr J. B. Donald and Mr W. J. Poison, THE NEXT MOVE. r : SIR JOSEPH WARD TO FORM MINISTRY. (Special to Daily Times.) WELLINGTON December 7. It is stated that his Excellency the Governor-General has accepted Mr Coates’s advice that Sir Joseph Ward should be asked if he can form a Ministry. It is expected that Sir Joseph will bo sent for by his Excellency to-morrow and asked if he.is willing to form a Cabinet, and that Sir Joseph .will agree to do so.