FOUR UNIVERSITIES.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 19249, 13 August 1924, Page 3

FOUR UNIVERSITIES.

STRONG OPPOSITION. UNIVERSITY COUNCIL DISCUSSION. LESS DRASTIC REMEDIES AVAILABLE. A special meeting of the Otago University Council was held yesterday afternoon to consider the report of the special committee set up to confer with the Professorial Board on the proposal from northern colleges to replace the New Zealand University by separate universities in each of the four centres. The meeting was attended by the Chancellor (the Rev. Dr A. Cameron), Drs J. Fitzgerald, W. Marshall Macdonald, Professor Bcnham, Sir H. Lindo Ferguson. Messrs J. S. Douglas, tV. J. Morrell, J. C. Stephens, J. Ronnie, J. A. Moore, J. Wallace, and J. W. Sourr. The Chancellor reported that the Professorial Board had previously adopted a resolution that there is sufficient feasibility about the suggestion that there be four separate universities in New Zealand to warrant the consideration of the matter in conjunction with the other colleges: but as the present suggestion arises largely ns a result of dissatisfaction with the syllabus of certain subjects and the method of examination for the degrees in arts, science, commerce, and homo science the Professorial Board of the University of Otago recommends that in place of establishing four separate universities at the present time steps be taken to institute the necessary reforms in these two matters.” After the Professorial Board had mot with a committee of the council to discuss this subject it resolved to adhere to the above resolution, but with the following addition to be made:--“That the arts and science faculty, although it considers that the only satisfactory solution is the institution of separate universities, is content, in view of the opposition of the special schools, to abide by the previous resolution of the board.”

The Registrar (Mr IT. Chapman) read correspondence on the subject from the Auckland and Victoria College Councils that had been before the previous meeting of council. There was also a letter from the Court of Convocation of the Auckland University district conveying resolutions recently passed on the subject. The court was of opinion that a change in the New Zealand system of university education was desirable and that four separate institutions would be advantageous provided that adequate measure's w-ere taken to ensure that the status of degres would be in no respect inferior to that of the corresponding degrees of the New Zealand University. The court proposed the setting up of a commission of experts for the purpose of effecting the change suggested and that in the event of the other three centres not wanting separate universities a separate universitv be granted to Auckland.”

The following letter to the registrar from the Director of Education was also read: — “The question has been raised that a commission be set up to inquire into such matters as the effectiveness of the present university system; future lines of development —e.g., whether in the direction of separate universities; constitution and finance of local governing councils of colleges (or universities); allocation and supervision of special schools; extent to -which university education should be given free; efficiency of adult university extension movement; facilities for research in university colleges; matriculation and junior university scholarship examinations and coordination of subjects thereof with courses in secondary and technical schools. I shall be glad if your council will express its opinion on the proposal to set up a Royal Commission to which would be referred these and other matters.” The Chancellor, referring to the conference between the council and the Professorial Board, said they were all agreed that steps ought to he taken to remedy certain defects in the present system. Mr W. J. Morrell moved—-“ That tin Council of the University of Otago is strongly opposed to the institution, within the near future, of four separate universities of New Zealand, believing that this would be contrary to the interests of cdu--cation in the dominion, and is of the opinion that any necessary reforms or modifications can he carried out within the present University of New Zealand, and that copies of this resolution bo sent to the other colleges, to the Prime Minister, and to the Minister of Education.” Sneaking to his motion. Mr Morrell stated that the criticisms of the present system made by members of the Professorial Board at a recent meeting of the committee of the council, were all really criticisms of detail, partly as to syllabus and method, and system ot examinations. Any defects mentioned, he thought, could be well remedied under the power given by the present system. He was a comparatively recent member of the Senate, but he would say tnat it had never dealt in a cavalier fashion with the recommendations of the Board of Studies, and the division on the Senate had newer been a division of laymen on one side and professors on the other. With reference to the method of examination it was quite true that defects had manifested themselves, but ho would stress the point, that in so far as the past degree examinations were concerned, they were perhaps incidental to the working of What was virtually a new system adopted within the last two or three years It was not unnatural, and the Senate on its own motion had been looking into the matter and had appointed a committee to consider any necessary modifications, and these would be reported to the next meeting. Although he could' not say what the exact modifications would be, bethought they were almost certain that the professors would he given more power am! greater control whicn had been asked for by them. Continuing, the speaker said the New Zealand University might ho in form a purely examining university, but in actual practice it was a quasi-federal university of four teaching colleges, and it would be of great benefit if the truly lederal oharactei of it were formally declared, and if the professors of the various colleges were definitely recognised as professors in the universities of New Zealand. He thought that in 1913 or 1914- the Otago University Council had adopted a resolution in favour of the change. That the new proposed system of setting up four universities would create a greater public interest, especially in tho way of eliciting gilts for university purposes, was a statement math by Di flight, hut the Chancellor had stated that he did not see how tho more title of University of Otago could make any difference, and he agreed with him. There should be a freedom in teaching, but he could not accept the corollary of a one-man syllabus, it should be discussed by a conference, and this was secured by the present Board of Studies. There should be a conjoint body whore teachers could discuss matter.and draw up some common proposals as to the mode of work. The Government had a just claim to a voice in education in New Zealand, as it supplied a considerable proportion ■ of the funds, but it seemed to him that there would be danger under the proposed system of that voice becoming too powerful. In conclusion, he said he did not propose the motion in any hostilespirit towards the professors, but he thought they were making a mistake in asking for four separate universities. Ho considered that 15 or 20 years hence would be ample time to consider such a proposal. At this stage the Chairman suggested that the standing orders allowing each member only five minutes to speak, he rescinded. Mr Morrell submitted a motion to that effect, and this was seconded byMr J- Bennie, and carried. Mr Ronnie, seconding the motion, said he thought Mr Morrell was right when he said professors would have less influence and less control in academic matters if there were four universities. The Government would also think of the same thing and would pass legislation to protect itself from the four universities. Some of the, universities would want a dental school, another ft medical school, and then the Government would interfere, and they had had enough of interference. As a graduate of the New Zealand University he felt it would bo weakening for them to establish four universities and he would not like to see it done. lie would like to thank Mr Morrell for his remarks and suggestions, and would support the motion. Dr Bonham, speaking on behalf of the Faculty of Arks and Science, said it was not true that tho professors were seeking more power. The renl_ questions were these: 'Hie University of Now Zealand was one of the only survivors of the system under which universities were purely examining bodies. Tho New Zealand University wa.s, in fact, an anachronism. It had come now that with the University of Now Zealand tho passing of examinations was more important than good, sound teaching The Senate was quite unable to deal with the business that came before it during its one yearly mooting lasting for 10 days. Another reason why the prof os-

sors felt t.hat good would come of tho institution of four separate universities was that there would be a greater flexibility about the syllabus. 'Tho present, syllabus was as a matter of fact a compromise between different views. The were unable to modify it to meet special local conditions. At present it was almost, impossible to got any modification of tho syllabus in less than two years. With a separate university changes could lie jnit through much more rapidly. Tho professors had never asked to examine their students wholly and solely, but only to have some say in tho examination of them. Without any' flattery be could say the professors kept tho Senate going because the lay members had something else to do in the town. At any rate they were not at all the committee meetings. They were not going to be faced with tho difficulty of two medical schools or two dental schools, if the change was made. Tho Government,' which knew tho cost of running such schools, tvould surely look after that. This idea did not emanate simply from Auckland, but Canterbury College had taken a lead in it. He quoted instances in England where tho establishment of universities in place of colleges had been followed by a great flow of generosity from members of the public. They might believe him or not, but in England tho degree of the New Zealand University was unknown and it was of no value whatever. But something was known of the teachers and tho nature of their work. In South Africa with a white population about equal to their own there were four separate universities. When Otago University was formed the province had a population of 38,000, and when* tho Now Zealand University was formed the dominion had a population of 248,000. Today the population of tho Otago Provincial district was 152.000, sufficient to supply all the students they wanted.

Mr J. C. Stephens, a member of tho committee that met tho -Professorial Board on this subject, said that some of them were at a disadvantage in discussing the mtbteir because they were unacquainted with tho history of the struggles between the Board of Studios and the Senate. They were there that day with a system that had stood for 50 years and the burden of proof lay upon those who wished to root it out. Ho quoted Dr Hight’s testimony to tho excellent results achieved in tho past by tho New Zealand University. He preferred that the question of tho special schools should not, be considered in connection with this matter, but it was impossible to avoid reference to them. The introduction of four different standards in tho four universities would be. very confusing and unfortunate in its effects. It, was essential as far ns law was concerned that they have some outside body to sot the startclarcl. It was a question of protecting tho public. They did not object to separate schools being set up ail over the dominion, but until they knew they were not getting two weak schools instead of one strong one they should oppose that course tooth and nail.

Sir Lindo Ferguson said it was absolutely obvious that if there were four university bodies tho first thing the Auckland Council would do would be to recognise its school of engineering which the Senate had long refused to recognise because tt was not satisfied with tho facilities given for the study of engineering there. It wits certainly not the case that tho degree of medicine of tho New Zealand University was not known at Homo. It was very favourably known indeed, and it was due to the men who held their degree that they should not change tho brand. The setting up of four separate universities must inevitably load to a one-man syllabus. Tt, was required that the four professors of the four colleges should get together and agree as to the syllabus and if they did that there would bo no difficulty about getting their recommendations through the Senate. Tho trouble was they could not agree among themselves. They were all growjing about tho syllabus and they wore responsible for it. He thought it would be infinitely better if the Senate met more frequently, and if it did not interfere «o much with details of syllabus. Here their chief trouble was the professors.— (Applause.)

Dr Marshall Macdonald said he had not been present at the meeting of the Professorial Board, so he had an open mind on the subject. He had listened to Dr Benham and thought his chief objection was that improvements could not be carried out under the present system. Dr Benham had stated that professors did not want more power, so he thought it simply a further attempt by the professors to attain more power. With regard to examiners, it would be just as difficult to procure them under the new system as it was at present, and the new system would mean four sets of examiners. He considered there was no reason why there should bo more universities. He agreed with Sir Lindo Ferguson that, (he New Zealand universities stood high in the estimation of those in England, and all difficulties could be surmounted if the professors could agree among themselves. Ip conclusion ho said he would be very sorry to see the universities split up. The Chancellor said he could not saymuch more than he had already slated, but he pointed out that he knew the difficulties in getting an alteration in the examination system, and thought the experiences of the past would force upon the senate the necessity of an alteration being made. With the now system he believed they would have greater expense and more trouble with teachers, and would destroy the influence of special schools by understaffing, etc. Ho hoped that the motion would be carried. The motion was carried by nine votes to one, Professor Benham being the only on© in opposition. The same, committee of the council that had acted previously was directed to meet, with representatives of (he . Professorial Board to consider how desired reforms might be effected. THE CAPPING DAT TRAM ACCIDENT. TO THE EDITOR. Sib,— l consider that Capping Day was responsible for the accident on tho Maori riilt tramway lino. The very presence of the students swarming over the car was quite sufficient to cause the motorman momentarily to lose control. Any person who has been in charge of machinery will bear me out in this contention. The cars bear the inscription, “Do not talk to gripman,” yet the students arc allowed on the cars to play their pranks, and when an accident occurs they go scot free and the motorman is severely punished. Despite the inquiry, it should be quite patent that a driver who has a record of over 20 years of careful, faithful service, would still have a clean record had it not been for the presence of the students on his car, and I consider the manly thing for them to do is to express regret that any unwise frolic of theirs should cause a fellow citizen to suffer. I also- think the punishment too severe. A criminal first offender is usually put on probation, and that would have amply met the case, which was only one of an error of judgment.—l am, etc., J. Smaiil, Roslyn. Marino Engineer.

LEAGUE FOOTBALL FRANKNESS

TO THB EDITOR Sir,—Tile boast of i.ho controllers of the League code of football is that: everything they do is done above hoard —“over the table,” as they say—the inference being, of course, that there are other codes not so conspicuous for truth and honesty. At the dinner on Saturday night Mr Millard stated “over the table” that the attendance at the League match at Tahuna that day was three times that at Uarisbrook. The takings at Uarisbrook indicate an attendance of about 5,830, to which is to be added about 1200 children and other non-payers, making TOCO. At Tahuna, therefore, Mr Millard must have seen 21,C00 people! This is too frank for the average person. Based on the published takings the number who paid for admission to Tahuna was well under 8000. Will Mr Millard, in vindication of the boasted straightforwardness of the League, explain the slight discrepancy, or may wo take the circumstance as an explanation of the phenomenal figures wo used to get indicating attendances ut League matches in Auckland? IJo may also consider it expedient to explain whether the action of the footballers who ignored the playing of the National Anthem was accidental or simply the League players’ “over the table” method of showing contempt for what loyal people respect.—l am, ok-.,