THE MEAT POOL

Otago Daily Times, Issue 18445, 5 January 1922, Page 7

THE MEAT POOL

MEETING OF PALMERSTON FARMERS. A meeting of farmers residing in the Palmerston district was held in tho County Council Chambers, Palmerston, yesterday afterndon. There were- about 50 present, and tho chair was occupied by Mr C. F. Overton. The meeting waa held in connection with tho proposed meat pool and to appoint a delegate to attend tho conference. The Chairman having ‘mentioned that Mr G. Webster, of Timaru, was present to address tho meeting, the question arose as to whether Mr Webster should be heard. It waa finally decided to first elect a delegate, and then hear Mr Webster. Mr A. S. Cambridge was elected the-dele-gate to tho conference. Mr Webster then addressed the meeting at vary considerable length. He said he was there on behalf of the exporters, and tiiat their interests and the interests of the producers were one. The Government informed them that this scheme was not under Government control, and that it was to be controlled by tho producers, but-the man financing had tho control, and no matter how things were managed he would sooner or later pull you up They bad had Government control in other directions, and would anyone ijay it had been successful? This meat pool was a far-,reaching and revolutionary scheme, They wore asked to overthrow an organised scheme that had rendered more or less service, and appoint inexperienced men who did not yet know what they were going to do. No scheme so hastily put together' could handle the meat trade of New Zealand. It was childish to think it could. The first thing about tho scheme was that they must get a better price at Homo or meat handled at a less cost in transit, or both. From tho expense point of view present buyers would have to bo used as drafters. It would be more and more necessary to have good men to draft stock; and there would ho no saving in expense. There would be a body of officials that would run into money. The point was made that a reduction in freight would come. In this pool farmers’ little lots were going into the works separately, to be-handled separately. Now they were all boxed up and killed at the factory. Under this new scheme, instead of having 7,8, or 10 lots, there would bo from 100 to 150 lots, and that would mean handling these lots with an increased staff. That would result in higher charges, not less. There would be no auction sales. There was no room in this scheme for the private buyer. Ho thought in the present state of finances of the farmer a cash price was necessary for him to carry on, no matter how he stood. The stock and station firms at present slated definitely what their cash price for fat stock was. There was no comparison between the pool and commandeer conditions. Although in the south we were having had times, we were not nearly so badly off os those in tho’North Island, and the South was going to bo asked to go into this scheme to help the North. About 65 per cent, of the meat leaving New Zealand was sold c.i.f. That gave a basis on which to operate. The only basis a man could do business on was to sell practically for hard cosh. The proposed scheme oould not bo anything other than sending Home early shipments in consignment. They should know what is going, how it was going, end when it was going. Any attempt to hold up our meat would result in these channels being taken from us. Whose meat, waa going to be held up and whoso meat was going to bo shipped? The North Island had invariably got its meat away first. Tho meat pool must by definite means.find out who was who. These pools oould not be cleared up quickly. It must take months'before they could be clear, and during that time a great many things might happen, and they might find that those to whom heavy advances had been made might go under. The total shipment from New Zealand was 7 per cent, of the total meat in tha United Kingdom. We should do our best not to alienate the whole trade._ In spite of everything that had been said of foodstuffs in the United Kingdom going bade to pre-war levels, surely with a little patience things would oomo right, without rushing into a wild cat scheme such as waa proposed. If this pool scheme was put through, unknown to the best financial men outside, it-would Very seriously alienate tho Home trade. He thought if they looked into the matter they would come to the conclusion that it would be a grave step to take to discard the organisations that it had taken 35 years io build up, and had don© their best. Every year had shown, an increase in the price of their fat stock, and surely they saw the gravity of scrapping that. Government was attempting to rush this scheme through, and very great danger attended it Replying to questions, Mr Webster said the Government proposed to use the present channels of distribution at Home. There was no question of opening up new markets. They had the Argentine and Patagonia increasing their supplies every year. Ho represented Nichol Bros. He was_ representing the frozen meat companies and_ the exporters. Thd Chairman said every day the position waa becoming more intolerable, and he thought they ought to congratulate Mr Massey upon making. an attempt to improve matters. Ho would move in that direction. A Voice: Does that mean that our delegate has a free hand? The Chairman: Yes. I take it to be so. You cannot bind him. One of those present remarked that they had not got information one way or the other, and this motion left the delegate a free hand. The motion was carried. Mr Boss said that they oould see that unnecessary expense had been going on under the present system. It seemed to him that one large concern, if managed properly, would do good. There v wore various firms working which, directly or indirectly, wore paying largo dividends. Mr Cambridge said the reason these firms did not wont this form was because they could not sell to thoir clients as certain prices. This was to be a producers’ board (board of management of the meat pool), and the producer was to run it with Government backing. _ It was not' a question of Government interference. It was a matter of Government wanting to help them to help themselves. - Was it thought that tho existing methods were going to help them very much in the future? Mr Webster said he did not know that ho should express any opinion upon a thing like that. The question was rather beyond him. Not one of the schemes of Government control had been successful. live competition was the on© thing that kept together efficiency, and it stood to reason a thing must be run economically. Mr Cambridge said if this pool did wipe out people, which he did not want to see, then Sir Webster’s highly paid men would not bo paid. One thing would balance the other. Mr Webster: Yes, but why make a change if it is not going to be better. Mr Cambridge: Well, it cannot be worse, and it might bo better from what I hoar. He knew of a director of freezing works, who waa also a farmer, and he was entirely in favour of this scheme. They did not want the North Mand to make hay at the expense of tho South. If the North Island got such good storage charges why were they in such a hurry to get their moat away ? When he had been up there they had been always complaining about the favoured South getting its meat away first. He asked what the percentage of lamb was wo sent Home.

Mr Webster replied a very large proportion and explained that the seven per cent, ho had referred to related to the whole of tho moat sent Home. Mr Cambridge: If this pool went through and we wanted to raise the price of our lamb, wo would have a very good chance of doing it. Why did you oomo down to address us? Mr Webster: Because I waa told to. Mr Cambridge: Why did you decide to come. For your interest or for both our interests? Mr Webster: I was asked to come down, and I could not very well refuse. I was simply asked to come down, and I waa quite willing to do so. _ Mr Pilbrow said he asked Mr Webster to oome down. The chairman remarked that Mr Massey hod stated that tho pool would not affect existing contracts. Mr Pilbrow said _ that after hearing Air Webster and considering everything, he thought the meeting would be very unwise to support pool control. What he would like to see was an optional pool if it could be arranged. Ho thought that if tho present course wag wiped out it would be disastrous. Ho moved that tho pool should bo made optional. Mr Ross sand ho did not think it would ho any good to hayo an optional pool. There must be no option about it. The motion having been seconded the chairman said he thought they were working in the dark, and until they knew what they wore doing he did not think it was any use putting the motion. Ho thought they had better leave it alone.

The motion was not pressed, end was not therefore put to the meeting, and thanks having been expressed to Mr Webster for his informative address the meeting terminated. \ MINISTER OP AGRICULTURE SPEAKS OUT. AN IMPORTANT STATEMENT. (Pm United Press Association.) WELLINGTON, January 4. The following important statement was made to-day by the Minister of Agriculture (the Hon. W. Nosworthy): “Communicationa have reached me from farmers in -various districts, which indicate that the risk exists of misapprehensions arising as the result of the over-zealous efforts of those associated with the.interests which have thought fit t 6 oppose the meat pool proposals. It is necessary puce more to make clear to the producers that these proposals are made wholly and solely m their interests. That is pointed out by the Prime Minister. The pool will be *a producers’ pool, controlled by them, and managed on their behalf by the best business men obtainable. There was never a time in the history of the dominion when so great a necessity existed for all producers to come together and act with' one mind, with the one object of safeguarding their own interests against the encroachments ‘of trusts, whose aim is to secure control, directly or indirectly, of meat which is produced through the labour and enterprise of our farmers. The pool proposals, providing as the do for one central producers’ controlling body, and one eeljpr only of Now Zealand meat, would afford a greater measure of protection than anything else. “It is particularly noticeable that the only criticism which so far has come to light is of a destructive nature. That no one has been able to put forward any suggestions for improvement or for any alternative scheme which will afford protection to the producers’ interests, which the present dajy position demands. Petitions are being circulated for signature by farmers asking for the right to sell their stock how and when they , please. Proposals bearing upon the sale of stock on the hoof by farmers have been, and are being, fully considered. Pending the elaboration of all working details farmers would be well advised .not to sign the petitions, seeing that they may be described os attempts at flank attacks upon the stronghold of the producers’ interests which ’the pool is intended to establish. “The Government is desirous of having the whole question fully and frankly discussed, with full consideration for every aspect of it, but the one definite principle safeguarding the producers of the dominion against the aggression of powerful outside organisations must never be lost sight of or allowed to be clouded by side issues. There should be no misapprehension of the position. The producers must either come together for their own protection, or place themselves, so far as the export meat trade is concerned, at the mercy of outside trusts. The matter Is in their hands. With a united • body of producers behind ,it the Government will be in a position to act strongly and decisively.” , . MEETING OF NORTH CANTERBURY FARMERS. (Pee United Press Association.) CHRISTCHURCH, January 4. The meat pool proposal was the subject of an address and discussion at a meeting of North Canterbury farmers. Mr Banks,; who presided, said the pool was going to be a great help to producers. Naturally, every vested interest was opposed to the 1 scheme, and agents had been making thousands of pounds out of the producers, a large proportion of which should have. gone to the producers. -New Zealand produce was not handled at the other end as it should be. The pool would make better handling and marketing. The Farmers’ Union had not been able to carry through such a big scheme, which required powerful backing, but with the Government’s 00-oporation it should be possible for producers and the Government to work to mutual advantage. Mr D. Jones, M.P., chairman of the Meat Pool Committee, spoke largely on the lines of his previous speech on the subject at Ashburton. To save the industry, he told, there must_ be some economising in the charges, which would be more than the farmer would receive, for his produce. It was high time the Government said that vessels must load at certain ports. A pooling scheme ol some kind had been wanted by a number of freezing .companies in New Zealand, but they had not been able, to effect it. The position of thousands of owners of meat in New Zealand to-day was that present prospective prices meant their wiping out.’ Exporters would receive every possible consideration, but the Government must consider first the interests of the producer. Mr H. F. Nicoll, chairman of the Meat Exporters’ Association; said that the pool would mean a disastrous drop in the price of meat, and would eliminate competition in buying and selling at Home. -It must also eliminate tho meat exporter, who could not buy if the scheme went through. Ho suggested a board of control to work with companies in regard to sub-marks, freezing, • freight, and shipment. . - After further discussion a motion was carried expressing the opinion that the time had arrived when a forward movement should be made to conserve the interests of producers and heartily approving of anything which may be done in connection with the meat pool, which would be in the interests of producers. MR J. C. COOPER OPTIMISTIC. (Fbom Ouh Own Correspondent.) WELLINGTON. January 4. Mr J. C. Cooper (Waimrapa), replying to eome questions regarding tho opposition to tho meat pool put to him and Mr Elgar by Mr A. U. McLeod, M.P., stated that the New Zealand freezing companies had already reduced their charges to the lowest possible point, and could not reduce them any more. The . proposals in connection with tho pool .would, on the other hand, • causa these prices to . be again increased, more particularly in view of the action of tho Arbitration Court. Tho' Government, however, could- help the position by setting up on Appeal Court to enable the freezing companies to have thoir case reheard. As a matter of foot tho companies had reduced their charges by a greater amount than tho Arbitration Court had reduced wages, and the shipping companies had reduced freights. With regard to the question respecting Armours, ho said that if farmers wished Armours to trade here, by all means let them have them. If they traded fairly and played tho game there could do no harm, but if they 'adopted l tho methods credited to them in other countries tho result eventually must bo disastrous to all concerned. Mr Cooper stated that in so far as his freezing company is concerned tho same concessions are granted to all their clients, and tho man with 10 sheep is on equal terms with the farmer who has 100,000. Mr Cooper,, who is a farmer himself, says matters aro not nearly as bad as is generally supposed, and he believes that meat prices will improve in tho course of two or three months. Even now meat producing is a good investment, with every prospect of a good future. DUNEDIN STOCK AGENTS’ PROTEST. Tho Dunodin Stock Agents’ and Wool Brokers’ Association at a meeting hold yesterday considered tho question of tho proposed moat pool. After a very full discussion frqm ovory point of view, it was resolved that, as financing agents, as well as brokers, they could not give such drastic changes as those proposed favourable agreement. They quite recognise that much can bo don© by individual firms to reduce multiplicity of marks which is one of tho causes of tho present trouble, but to eliminate many of the channels through which tho meat has been conducted since its inception is too revolutionary in its aim, and in thoir opinion th© adoption of the scheme is fraught with more risks and loss chance of success than in waiting for the tern of the tide in ' producers’ favour, which they feel cannot be long delayed. They are anxious in every feasible way to help producers through tho present dire troubles, but they cannot recommend either them or the Government to sweep the decks clear at a time when financiers, producers, and the Government are at their weakest. They feel that even now a grave error of judgment has been committed in publishing broadcast, both in this country and in England, their revolutionary scheme, as even if it cornea to nothing tho British merchant will be living in a state of so much doubt abput us that he is more likely to transfer his attention to our foreign competitors for tho meat trade. In their opinion, on the whole the proposals, contain more wild speculative opportunities than are to be found by waiting for the present accumulations to disappear, ond by steady, well considered improvements in grading, ■ marking, and marketing spread over a course of time and propounded by a qualified committee of investigators. In short, the scheme in its present form is very incomplete, and the Dunedin stock agents aro unable to recommend it. As it stands at present, they cannot do otherwisp than condemn it as beipg unworkable and dangerous.

MEETING AT CLINTON. A meeting of primary producers Was held in the Town Board Chambers at Clinton on Tuesday night to consider the Government’s proposals in regard to the meat pool. Opinion waa unanimous that in the present very grave situation, action of some sort is urgently needed,, to avert a national calamity. The opinion was freely expressed that Government control was not desirous except under extraordinary conditions, but that those conditions seemed to be very, evident just now. The following motion, proposed by the chairman (Mr F. Waite), was carried,- a copy of: which; will bo sent to the Minister of Agriculture: That this meeting, realising that the present situation is distinctly unfavourable' to the primary producers, feels that the meat pool scheme evolved by the Government is worthy cf full and earnest consideration , ‘ (Pee United Pbess Association.) WHAKATANE, January 4. A meeting of meat producers called by the Whakatane Agricultural and Pastoral Association to-day discussed ,tne meat pool question. Various speakers favoured the scheme, and the meeting passed a resolution supporting the formation of a,compulsory meat pool with compulsory grading. The Hon. J. B. Gow was appointed 'delegate to tho conference at. Wellington. , . MASTHRTON, January 4. A meeting of 300 farmers representing ©very part of the district passed a resolution in favour ol the moat pool to-day, and appointed delegates Ito attend the conference at Wellington, WAIROA, January 4. A largely attended meeting of representatives of the sheep farmers, stock firms, and meat company unanimously favoured the betterment of the scheme of handling New Zealand moat.' The industry was tin danger of being wiped out unless shipping and marketing charges were considerably reduced. AN INTERESTING INTERVIEW. STATE INTERFERENCE DEPRE- ' GATED. HOW GLUTS COULD BE AVOIDED. Mr A. St. George Ryder, London manager of th© National Mortgage - and Agency Company of New Zealand, and vioe-presi-dent of tho New Zealand and Australian Agents’ Association in London, interviewed on behalf of the Auckland Star, made it clear that the proposed pool ,is not tlie simple matter that Parliament apparently thoughtit woa. Above all, ne ’ deprecated undue .haste. Speaking of the present system of putting New _ Zealand meat on the "market, Mr Ry’der indicated that the selling agents tin London were , in pretty close touch, and'.had a very comprehensive plan of getting the fullest and earliest information as to the markets at both ends. London was undoubtedly the best market; buyers from all over the Kingdom bought in London: and though occasional shipments to Cardiff or Glasgow might do, London was the recognised market; Talking of tho Argentine meat, Mr Ryder, after referring to our supremacy in, the lamb trade, said. Argentine was improving tits flocks. He .did not think its beef was actually better in quality than the New Zealand beef, but it was got up much better, arid had a shorter distance to oorno, and was more popular with the retailers. ARGENTINE PULLS TOGETHER. Asked about the Argentine methods of dealing with their meat at the London .end, Mr Ryder said there'were probably 70 to 80 per cent, of the South American trade working together with some sort of arrangement. They recognised that their interests were identical and pulled together. They also had; organisations with strings of retail shops. There was no doubt that the Argentine was a very formidable opponent to New Zealand and could affect our market at times by the largeness of thoir shipments. , That was one of New Zealand’s troubles. By occupying the storage capacity the Argentine kept the New Zealand meat , out, and this meant that steamers wore delayed, with consequent'inconvenience and loss. “Would it not be a good l thing if. New Zealand had her own storage facilities in London?” Air Ryder was asked. “Yes, it would undoubtedly be the ideal thing if we' could.. At present New Zealand is entirely dependent on the facilities offered by the Port of London Authority and ,the proprietary concerns. There is only ,ooe exception to that rule, and I believe that concern is now controlled by Vestey’e. The Port of London has large storage capacity, but I don’t think it is enough to deal with a glut.. On tho other band, it would be easy to overdo the storage question. That is one of the points on which wo might work together more. We might have a closer understanding and regulate the departure, and arrival of shipments in London 'according to the market. It is quite conceivable that ’ on occasions it would be advisable to delay a shipment from New Zealand. It is far cheaper to store in your own works in New Zealand than to incur tho higher charges in. London. On the other hand, you wan); to have your finger on the market, and must not let yourself get in the position of finding .a good market in London with all your meat stored in New Zealand. That is why you must have some storage at the London end.” , CO-OPERATION WANTED. “Do you think' some form of control could be advantageously worked?” “It is a difficult problem,” replied Mr Ryder. “First of ah there is the danger oi interfering with freedom of contract I think formers-' want to in a position to sell locally or to consign, whichever they like.' Then, there are the exporters, who have sunk a lot of , capital in the business and prefer to sell through their own agents. I do, think, however, that closer co-operation might have had a. very good effect on the business. One way in which it' would help the trade would be in reducing tho expenses. At present it costs nearly 4d a pound to get the meat Home. That is too high. The shipping companies, however, have shown a disposition to lower freights' as soon as they can reduce thoir working expenses, and aa demurrage is a big .item tin the cost of getting the meat Home, any co-operation which would lead’ to more rapid discharge o£ the steamers would help in getting this item down.” AT THE LONDON END. “What form of control would you suggest in London supposing we pooled our moat at this end?” Mr Ryder, speaking for himself, with tho added weight tnat fie thought his association would bo of the same way of thinking, said that if there was going to bo control in London th© most satisfactory way of working would be to take all the recognised selling agents m London, incorporate them, and form an executive of, say, three, who should exercise control over the disposal of tho moat; such, executive to act in concert with a similar committee at th© New Zealand end. When it was suggested that the Government or the farmers should be represented, Mr Ryder said the selling agents, or at least the majority, Had identical interests with those ot the producer. His firm was ono of a group which financed the agricultural and pastoral industries of tho dominion to tho extent of perhaps £26,000,000 or £30,000,000. That sum was a pretty big factor. If it were withdrawn from tho country it would make a big difference. It naturally followed that the interests of his firm and similar firms and the interests of the producers were one and the same. What affected the producers-affected tho people who lent them money. Whatever tho form of control Mr Ryder waa emphatic that it must be that of business men. They hod had too much oxperi-' enco of official control to welcome it. . It would bo fatal to set up a new Government department with inexperienced officials who if sent to London would have to learn from tho bottom an intricate trade that had taken the present men 20 to’ 30 years to master. Tho amount of knowledge that had been accumulated by the trade waa naturally wide_ and varied, and any inexperienced official that went to London would be compelled to seek th© guidance of the present .men controlling the trade. “So why put an extra spoke in the wheel?” concluded Mr Ryder. ‘ THE PRESENT DIFFICULTY. Mr Ryder explained that most of tho Australian meat people in London and nearly all of the New Zealand people Were represented in the bodies which controlled the London moat trade. He was asked if that were so where was tho necessity for an executive oonunittee as suggested by him in his remarks^ He explained that the trouble at present was that there waa no method' of stabilising the market. It waa, of course, impossible to impose artificial prices,. the old law of supply and demand oould not' be interfered with, but what we could do would be to regulate the offerings so as to avoid a glut in the market. That had been done intihe wool trade through' tho Bawra scheme, which had worked well so:far. Mr Ryder, while holding i that it was a great mistake to interfere with the ordinary

oommeroial channels, thought it a groat mistake to meet Mr Massey’s scheme ’ in a v Spirit of hostility.. It ■was made in the interests of the producers, and while perhaps ■ Mr Mtussey|s advisers did not see -aHjjtha, v: diffiouities it involved, the matter uibuld be carefully considered and examined to " see _if the proposals were practicable.Mr ,' %der said he was going further into the matter when ho got to Wellington. '

LOWER PRICES AND COSTS. One of the big difficulties in the present scheme is finance. Mr Ryder said he had heard it stated that the Government would guarantee advances on the meat up to 90 -ji per cent, of vaJuo. That waa a dangerous " proposal. Who was going to fix it, and how? Even when advancing 75 to 80. per cent, of value it was quite possible to get ’ intp an awkward situation. If there were a loss it would come back on the taxpayer, ’ and that appeared to Mr Ryder to.be a” " grove defect in Mb Massey’s - echcme, proBurning, of course, that it waa intended to / do as rumour stated. - ‘

«Aa for Mr Ryder (knew, the present people financing' the meat trade were prepared to cany on. In fact, they must f, : ‘* it wag their daily bread. “I thinly every- : ,i-t one must be prepared to accept a lower range of values,” said Mr Ryder, ,>;“a« tune goes on, but wo shall bo able to re- -'! duce the cost of getting the meat'Home from W per lb to half that. - And/ of course, the lower range of prices will come slowly.” ' f- i WHERE STATE COULD HELP. * ’ One matter in wihich thg Government could legitimately helpl the meat trade was in financing a scheme to secure cold storage ; for the New Zealand meat in London.' If ■ it were found necessary or desirable .that New Zealand should own separate cold etocage in London it would either have to be purchased from the present owners or new stores built. In either case a big bum , ; would be involved, and the Government might very well guarantee a loan for this purpose, as was done in the case <of the * South Land hydro-electric loan. -If Hew ■ r Zealand had something of the kind it might j be possible to reduce the storage dutfires - very considerably. 'Mr Ryder’s main, hope in regard to Mr ' Maswy’s proposals was that nothing' whuld be done hastily. By going blindly. ’into ; something it would be quite possible to antagonise she London trade and do ore- v parable injury to New Zealand -meat., Whatever waa done should be dona only after deliberation. The Government of " ! New Zealand waa apparently, quite willing :'£■ to consider suggestions, and that’ waa the ' I' spirit m which the matter must be at>preached. . \