GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 15553, 7 September 1912, Page 4

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

HOUSE OF REPKESENIATIVES,

(Feb United Pbkss Association) WELLINGTON, September 6. The Houso met at 2.30 p.m. A BILL PASSED. Tlio Talum Trust Revocation Bill was Tcad a third time and passed. A LOCAL BILL. Tho Boss Borough Council Vesting and Empowering Act Amendment Bill (Mr Scddon) was road a first time. THE SCHOOL JOURNAL. Mr RUSSELL drew tho attention of tho House to a photograph of tho Ministry appearing in the School Journal, and eaid that to his mind political mattew should bo excluded from,the journal. Tho Hon. Mr ALLEN eaid he knew nothing of tho matter, but he had no objection to the photograph appearing.THE ESTIMATES. Tho Hoiiso then went into committee to

further consider the Miniates. On tho item of £64,792 for public buildings, Mr PEAItGE asked what tho Government's intentions ivcro with regard to the maintenance of tho two residences for the Governor. He thought thai as a new Governor was coming out tho present was. a fitting timo to titled a change, so Hint only one establishment should exist. Mr FOIIBES agreed with Mr Pcarco, and Raid that to test the feeling of tho commitloo on tho reduction of expeudituro in tho country he would move to reduce the vole by £1 a« an indication that only ono Government House was ncccseary. Mr MYERS said tlio removal of Government lloutft from Auckland would bo a crime. Tlio building had boon established when was the capital city, and it might again be tho capital. . Mr GLOVER reminded tho Ilouso 1 that Auckland would Iks tho naval base of tlio China squadron, and tho Admiral would doubtless occupy the house in tho Governor's absence. Sir J. fl. WARD said that a certain amount of expense was essential in connection with the boosing of the representative of the King. Ho thought it was a great pity that this question camo up every ficssion, Tho lion. Mr MASSEY said be agreed "with tho member for Awarua. He thought it was a groat shame that the cry of llOTth v. south was continually raised. He know there was a great amount of sentimental feeling about Government House nt Auckland. An arrangemont had been entered into with tlvc now Governor ' whereby houses would bo provided for him at Wellington aiul Auckland. 11m Imperial Government had a proprietary intorest in the house and grounds. He did not think they could interfere without tho consent of the Imperial authorities, i ; Mr TtUSSKIiIi said that Mr Forbes was actuated by a desiro to give the new ■Government an opportunity to display that economy which it had so long advocated. , , , ~ , Sir J. G. WAHD defecated the continued interruption of the passago of the Estimates bv the moving of wiiondmcnts. to reduce items. If he had his way the wholo of the Estimates would be passed fn one vote and tho work of the country proceeded with.-fApnlatwc.) Mr FORRES said he was quite willing to withdraw the amendment 'now that a full discussion had ensued, and after hearing from tho Prime Minister that arrangements bad already been made with the new Governor, lire amendment was withdrawn. Mr LAUItENSON referred to a scheme for erecting new Parliament Buildings. He nsked whether it was wise to go on with the erection of now buildings, or whether it would not be better to shift Parliament Buildings to some other centre. He faid that Wellington was the worst city i» New Zealand for the-pur-pose, If 20,000 acres were acquired in Tnrn'naki) Wnirarapn, Marlborough, or Canterbury they could lay out a permanent 'official city for less 'than £1.000,000, and a largo area of laud could bo let on lease, anil the scheme could bo carried out on a payable basis. He moved to reduce the vote for Parliament Buildings by £1 as an indication that the Government should • during recess make somo inquiry as to whether it would not bo wiso to shift the capital from its . present position. ',■ Mr JHJUUO urged tho appoinlineiit of "i a commission similar to that set up in >'; J866 for the purpose of deciding upon a f- capital, tho commission to go thoroughly s-into the matter and report to Parliament. £ Subsequently Mr LAUItENSON withi\ drew his amendment, expressing his inif tent ion to move an amendment at a later 4 date with a view to getting a division |on the question. % Tho whole class, totalling £107,502, was , i- then pawed unamended. s On Uio class for tho Native l)e|wrtInicnt (£23,551), Sir Jas. CARJIOLI, f'nsked wheal tho two new judges were lo $ bo appointed to the Native Land Court. i Tho Hon. Mr HERRI ES replied that i lie hoped to get Judge MacCormack back Jin New Zealand shortly. He did not | wish to appoint new judges until ho had < 5 been through tho country and had 'seen [ for himself what was done awl what was I desired. Until ho bad formulated his ! policy ho did wit wish to make any statehneiit on the matter. .*: Replying to Mr Parata, the MINfISTEII «'id he bad an idea that the jXative Department could be done away j witji, but iw could not see that any ad- * vantage would lie gained, as ollicers would vlwve to be retained until .they reached fthfl ngo limit. The class was passed, \ The' Justice Department vole of ;£'100,139 was then considered. I In wplv to Mr Ngalo, the Hon. Mr JIIERDMAN said tJiere was no intention .? to effect any alteration in the Grown Law ?Ullice> in Wellington. V Mr ISITT madfl a plea for raising the [salaries of stipendiary magistrates. {. Tho MINISTER, in reply, said that J provision would bo made next session for |;un alteration of the conditions of magistrates. I' Mr WITTY said a great number of \ magistrates received less than they would Hf thev were practising as solicitors. t Mr'LAUItENSON said that some of I the best magistrates in tho country were 5 not lawyers at all. A legal training some. ; times disqualified a man from king a ! people's magistrate. 1. Mr HELL and Mr UANAN contended i'thal magistrates should be properly ; trained ami properly qualified. '.; In reply to criticism of tho prevent '''method of magistrates acting a* coroners, '■Mr HERDMAN said tho system had S worked very well. The question of niagis- •' tr.itcs' salaries deserved serious consideraUion It was desirable that magistrates ,should havo had a legal training before ; going upon tho bench. .. Mr RUSSELL said he hoped tho way 'would be made easy for clerks of courU : to qualify bv legal tiaiuing for the bench. Mr MACOONALI) contended that the appointment of justices of the peace was a mailer for serious consideration. He lud been Irving for some time to pel a down appointed, but so far had Jaded. Ho hoped the Minister would look into the matter. ~ , , , , Mr IHJCHANAN said he had known 'vcar« lo elapso before the Govermncnt •decided whether a curtain gentleman should or should not be appoints to the "bcncli. AppoinUuents should be made at shorter intervals. : Sir J. G. WARD asked if the Government would inquire as to ;the advisability of appointta? all members of the House other Uian lawyers as justices of tho peace if thev w'crc willing to accept the IKsition. lie understood that vis a matter of professional etiquette lawyers did not accept the office. Mr HERDMAN said tl>e hunger for appointment of justice* of tlio pence at the present time was amazing. One hundred and twenty had been appointed since his Government had taken office. A flex the session closed bo proposed lo go through another lift and make appointmenU Ho ttought tho appointments jhonH not only be mado annnally, but is tbo vnxA arose. Ha could not sec why bombers of Parliament and tho ohairmea

of county councils' should not be ex officio J.P.'s. Mr LAUKENSON urged the necessity for appointing public dofenders, and he instanced a case in which a lega .""J 1 charged a postal ullic/l £323 for defending him against » certain charge. Mr PAYNE contended that lue administration of the law should be a State function. JIo thought the time wan coming whcai the lawyer as a private practitioner would be superseded by the btate. Mr LKE considered that the previous speaker's remarks were not worthy of consideration. As to the big bill referred to by Mr Laurenson, the person charged imd told him that he considered the bill very re.'isonablc, in view of the services rendered. The bill liad since been reduced to £250.

Mr BELL said the legal profession was Ihe only proicssion in regard to which tho State provided that no one could be overcharges, as anyone who had a bill of costs could get it taxed by tho registrar. Further, there was a provision in the law which provided that when a man wan charged with a serious offence tho court could appoint counsel for his defence, and in such cases counsel acted without fee. , , Mr LAURENSON urged that the day was coming wlkui justice would be free, and that people who wanted justice should not have to run the risk of being plundered. Mr RUSSELL moved a reduction, of the voto by £1 ns mi indication that the Government should- next _ session bring down legislation with a view to providing for public defenders in the Supreme Court.

Mr WILI'ORD : You would never get a man to plead guilty. Mr RUSSELL:, 1 don't wish back-

pedal argument.—(Laughter.) He thought they should give accused persons the opportunity of having trained legal advice at the cost of the Slate, so that Ihcy could roly on getting fair play. Mr ISITT urged that the people concerned in proceedings in the Magistrate's Court needed as much assistance us lluiso who camo beforo the Supreme Court. As to tho case mentioned by Mr Laurcnson, he thought it was o- monstrous thing that any linn of solicitors should send in a bill of £323 for legal costs. Mr BELL said he thought thcro wcro cmcs in tho lower court in which the police did press Hits wise unduly, and ho thought the system of public defenders should begin in the lower court. There wcro many counsel who would take what lie described as a "judge's brief," and all* pauper criminals would be defended in tho Supremo Court for nothing. Mr IiINDMAHSII said he thought

.hero should be a full investigation into

tho case referred to by Mr Laurcnson. The accused in that'easo would state that tlicre was a tremendous amount of opposition shown against him by a Government department, and the legal firm concerned never expected to get a penny out of the transaction, but took a great deal of troublo over the case, and got the man off in spite of tho opposition of the Post OHico and police. Tho bill sent in was a small one in consideration of the services rendered. The man was saved from gaol only by reason of a chance conversation overboard in the sheet. The poorest

man could get the very best medical attendance at tho hcwpital, and ho hoped the lime would come when the -woiest man accused of crime would be aide to command the very best legal advice. Mr HANAN said it was only a matter of time when llicy would have a bureau of justice. Ho could not see any harm emanating from the establishment of a Crown defender. He emphasised the point that the legal profession was open to idl, and was not a close corporation, its had been alleged. . The Hon. Mr IIERDMAK, in replying, said thcro was no need for a public defender. The expense of such procedure was not waaTaliid. No one would plead gujity if there were a public defender, and the position would bo ridiculous. He was seriously considering the advisability of adoplin-'"tho Poor Prisoners'.Defence Act which operated in England. He would in all probability ask the House next session to place a similar measure on the Statute Book. Mr RUSSELL withdrew his amendment upon Mr Hcrdman's explanation and promise, and tho total vole was passed unaltered. The vote of £52,2-37 for the Mines Department iwxt occupied the attention of the committee. „..,,,., Messrs POLAND and COLA IN pleaded for increased salaries for mine insnectors, and said the Director of Geological Survey should alto receive consideration iu that diioclion. The MINISTER, m. reply, said the folii-iUUoiQ on behalf of the olhrors mentioned would receive his careful consideralion when the Supplementary Estimates camo down, lie slated that t u- report of the geological survey of the Wailu district would be printed Mr POLAND suggested that the Government, should assist mining by establishiug a State battery or provide rae.lilies for the establishment of public b.itterios. Ho especially advocated the wee. •t«n of a State battery of 10 heads in Ol.uiemuri. He mentioned that the Governments of Western Australia and New South Wales had already adopted tho course ho advocated. Tho MINISTER said he would consider tho possibilities of a public crushing bal'i'lio total vote was passed unaltered. The vote of £317.391 for the Department of Internal Affairs was then considered. . ■ , , . Mr ELL moved that the vote he reduced bv £1 as an indication that the Minister" of Internal Affaire should bo a Member of the House of Representatives. ' The PRIME MINISTER said that Mr Ell was tho most unreasonable man in Parliament. Did be suggest that tho Hon. Mr Hell should not toko Ins share of Ministerial affairs! In'the late Government Sir John Findlay was the Leader of the Council and Minister-in-Chargc of -Police, Prisons, Justice, aud the Crown Law Department. Did Mr Ell obiect Ihen? Sir .John l-'indlay was

also Minister-in-Chargc nf Internal Affairs between 1907 and 1911. Colonel Pitt,

when Leader of the Council, was Minister-iu-C'liargo of Defence. Did Mr Ell find fault then? He had never uttered a word of protest. To-day the Hon. Mr Hell had charge only of the non-con-tcntious offices. When' the lion. W. C. Walker in 1896 was Leader of Uio Council ho had charge of the Education Department. Tho exception had been to find that the Leader of the Council was not ill oliargo of the Department of Internal Affairs. Where was Mr Ell's consistency? A thin House, discussed Uio classes under this vote.

Mr RUSSELL, asked if the Government had taken over tho control of tho Government Life Insurance Advertising Department?

Mr FISHER answered in the affirmative, and added that the advertising was to be run on business lines.

Mr YOUNG made an appeal for attention to the teeth of children, and also referred to the harm done by the operations of unqualified itinerant oeculiste. The total vote was passed unaltered, and tho Housa rose at 1.45 a.m.