GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 11794, 25 July 1900, Page 5

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

TUESDAY, JULY 24" The Council mot at 2.30 p.m. THIRD READING.

The Civil Service Examination Bill was passed through committee without amendments, read a third•• time, and passed. The Council rose at 2.55 p.m.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

TUESDAY, sJULY 2*. The House met at 2.30 p.m. DEFENCE COMMITTEE. The Right Hon. Mr SEDDON moved that, a joint committee of both the Houses bo appointed, to whom shall be referred the question of defence.—Carried. LEAVE OF ABSENCE. One week's leave of absence was granted to Messrs Napier and Witheford. FIRST READINGS. The Wellington City Leasing and New Zealand Institute of Surveyors Hills were introduced, and read a first time. QUESTIONS. Replying to questions, Ministers said: — The Government cannot authorise a higher rate of pay for casual labour on the railways, but a uniform rate of pay of Is per ho"J. wili be adopted throughout the colony. _ With a view to enable it and other questions to be tested, a Referendum Bill will be introduced this session to ascertain the will of the people on the question of Biblereading in schools.

An amendment to the Old-age Pensions Act will be introduced, regarding which suggestions will be asked from stipendiary magistrates.

The Government have no formal offer from a private firm for the construction of a railway from Sentry Hill to Kawaka-wa A Technical Education Bill will be introduced this session.

The Government do not approve of selling freehold land in town and suburban sections which has been reserved for- settlement purposes.

Facilities will be given to have some of the youths of the colony instructed 'so as to qualify as meat inspectors. The Government are aware that 237 nativeborn persons have died during the year 1899 from phthisis, and suggest that a way to'meet the case is to introduce an Undesirable . Immigrants Bill to prevent people suffering from, such complaints entering the colony. .

Mr .SMITH moved the adjournment of the House to mark • his disapproval of the answer tip the question with respect to the construction of the line Sentry Hill to Te Eaiiti, to connect Taranaki with the Main North Island Trunk railway. He complained that the Government would not take his advice and borrow 10 millions right out for railway construction. Tliey could spend one million alone in his district in what would prove profitable lines.

Mr ELL said he also was dissatisfied with the answer to his question regarding consumptives. He contended that the disease was already in the colony, and it was the duty of the Government to see that a sanatorium was established principally. for the benefit of poor people, who could not afford to go to a sanatorium outside tho colony, where the treatment of that disease was most . successful. He trusted the Government would do something to arrest the ravages of the disease amongst the young people of the colony. Messrs LA WRY and PALMER advocated tho Stratford route for the Main North Island Trunk lino.

Mr WILFORD advocated more consideration in the way of salary and a more secure tenure of office to railway employees, temporary clerks, etc.

Mi- MASSEY believed if the Awakino route had been adopted for the Main North Island Trunk .railway it would have been completed long- ago, and at much less cost than any other raute.

The Hon. W. HALL-JONES and Messrs FOWLDS and SYMES carried on the debate, which was interrupted by the 5.30 adjournment.

EVENING SITTING. The .Houee resumed at 7.30. BILL WITHDRAWN. On the motion of the PREMIER, the Ministers' Salaries and Allowances Act Amendment Bill was withdrawn. THE GOVERNOR'S SALARY. The PREMIER moved the second reading of the Governor's Salary and Allowances Bill. Ho stated that when the Governor's salarywas reduced it was done to meet a temporary emergency felt at that time when the colony was in a state of depression, which had now passed away. Looking at the condition of the colony now and comparing its status with the other colonies, he' considered that they should revert to the amount at which it stood before the reduction. If the Governor, irrespective of personality, who for the time being occupied the position did his duty properly and kept the colony in touch with the Empire, he was entitled to greater remuneration than had been paid for some years past. Compared with the salaries paid to Governors in other colonies on a population basis, the salary paid to I he Governor of New Zealand was too meagre. No doubt under federation State Governors' salaries would be reduced, but 'on the other hand the Governor-general would, ho believed, be paid not less than £12,000 or £15,000. By paying a low salary they limited.the field of selection of suitable men. He knew that the low salary had prevented one man, who was otherwise well qualified, from accepting the position. He trusted the motion would be carried unanimously, and that the. debate would be of such a character as would redound to the credit of the House.

Mr M'LACHLAN said he would utter his pretest against the proposed increase., He was surprised at the Premier, who posed as a. democrat, proposing such a measure. If the salary was increased volunteers and artillerymeli would require an increase in pay, and how was the farmer to pay that at the present price of grain?

Mr MONK considered the condition of the colony worse at the present time than when the salary was reduced. He dissented altogether from the reasons advanced by the Premier for an increase in the salr.ry. He felt proud that we had a Governor as a link bindin;!; us to the Empire, but lie looked upon the position as merely automatic. The prosperity of the colony had been over-rated, and was clue greatly to the constant introduction of borrowed money. There was absolute need of economy in the public expenditure. He was iiot averse to expenditure, so long as the money was spent upon a purpose that would develop the resources of the colony.

Mr COLLINS did not see in a single reason advanced by the Premier anything to convince him that an increase was necessary. He warned the Premier that, his action in this matter was calculated to destroy his influence with the party that had kept him in power. He contended that the salary at present- paid was- quite equal to that paid by the other Australian colonies. Jf it were true, as the Premier had frequently said, that tin's polony could not afford to pay for more deserving objects, then it could not afford to increase anyone's salary. It was absurd to say that the loyalty of the colony was to be measured by the- amount paid to the representative of the Queen. Mr a. W. RUSSELL complained thai the Premier's advocacy of tho measure was one of exaltation of rank and pedigree in defiance of what be consider"'! to L--» £te true demo-

era tic sentiment in the colony. The statement that the colony had to be content with a second or third-rate Governor was absurd in the face of the qualifications of tho present occupant of the office. He contended that as a democratic colony, the best way of rewarding public men who spent their life ift the service of the colony was to open to them such offices as that of Governor of the colony. Captain RUSSELL ridiculed the interpretation of democracy given by the two previous speakers'. Taking the men who from first to last had filled the position of Governor they had, apart altogether from their rank or titles, proved themselves first-class men. It should be borne in mind that the duties of Governor were exacting from the fact that the colony was divided into four large centres, where the Governor carried out official and social duties. It was unlike any Australian colony. The cost of moving from place to place was -very large, but he believed in the practice of the Governor so mixing with the people and finding out for himselE the wants, resources, and conditions of the colony. He asserted that lie knew for a fact that every Governor in the colony for the past 15 or 20 years had spent double the amount of his salary, and that they had left feae colony poorer men than, they were when they came to it.

Mr HORNSBY thought the amount by which the : salary was proposed to be increased was too great, and, while voting for the second reading, .would, when the measure got into committee, move to reduce the amount.

Mr BITDDO did not measure his loyalty by his vote for an increase in the Governor's salary, and would oppose the second reading. Mr SMITH said he felt proud of the English aristocracy, and eulogised their services to tlio Empire. The time had not yet aarrived when the Governor should be elected by the people, but when it did he would be found amongst the supporters of such a principle. In the meantime he "would vote for the motion. ■ :

Mr PIRANI blamed the Premier for introducing a personal element into the discussion. Personally, he thought £5000 a year quite enough for the Governor of this colony. It was not in the interest of the colony that undue lavishness should be observed lii connec-' ti-n with the Governor's establishment. He dissented from the dictum of the Premier that, the salary was not sufficient to attract the best men to take the position. The main objection to the proposal "was that the House was not in a position to judge as to whether the colony could afford the increase, and thai? in any case any increase or reduction should not apply to the present occupant of the office. . ■ ■'' .

Mr FISHER concurred that the reduction in the Governor's salary was a, drastic remedy for the depression caused by the Stout-Vogel Government, but it was never intended to become a permanent reduction. Since the reduction took place the colony had greatly advanced in wealth and population, and, as a. corollary, in responsibility, not only of the Governor, but oi Ministers of the Grown. He eulogised the manner in which the present occupant of Government House carried out his duties, and hoped the' House would not stint itself in regard to the proposed increase. Mr TANNER opposed the proposal.- . He would raise no question as to rank or wealth, or as to the manner in which the duties were carried out by the present Governor, but he contended the amount at present paid was sufficient. He was amazed at the amount of opposition which the proposal to make the Governor elective met at the hands of the occupants- of the Government benches, i.

Mr WILFORD supported the measure, but reserved the right" in committee to alter the sum named in the bill. .

Mr MEREDITH was surprised at what he characterised as the conspiracy of silence regarding the bill shown by the Opposition. Were the increase to be of benefit to the Governor and family he would Hot object, but he was of opinion it would lead to ' a continuance of a spurious aristocracy in Wellington. He compared the salary paid to the Governor with tfiat given, to the Presidents of the United States,.where, without the aid of an aristocracy, or backed up with a large salary, the best men were available to take the highest position in the Republic. He did' not think the tip to the Empire depended upon an increase of the Governor's salary. Our best treasures in men and money . had, been freely given to aid the iimpire as a proof of the loyalty of ttfe people, but while the price of produce was so low and customs duties so high he could not see hia way to support the bill. _ . •..■■

Mr J. HUTOHESON opposed this bill. Had it stood alone it might have mot with more support; but evidently it was only one of a series of proposals for an increase of salaries. It was intended to increase Ministers' salaries, the Agent-general's salary was to be increased, and members' honorarium was now also considered too small. The colony was not in a position to stand the increases. He pointed to the liability incurred in sending the contingents to South Africa as a reason for pausing in the determination to grant such increases. As to the contention of some members —that the Governor should be elective, —he considered that the day that occurred the painter would be irrevocably cut from the Empire and a Republic pure and : simple would be established in the colony.; • Mr HALL believed a majority of the. Governors who came to the colony did hot do bo for the salary granted, but for the honour of the position. The question was: Could the colony afford more? He did not think'so. Many of the duties performed by the Governor, and which entailed expense upon the holders of the office, were unnecessary. He was not prepared to support the bill, on the ground that many people in the colony in receipt of inadequate salaries should first be considered. Mr E. G, ALLEN supported the bill, and felt sure he could satisfy his constituents that iie had dor.c ritrlit. . ■ -■ .

Mr .T. ALLEN, moved as ah amendment that the debate be adjourned until some conclusion has been arrived at as to the financial position of the colony. . Until the House Was in possession of the true financial position of the colony members were not prepared to decide upon the matter. Before deciding upon tile bill, the House should know what reduction would be made in tho customs duty and dither taxes. Until he wa.s satisfied upon /these points he could not vote for the second reading, of the bill. ■ ./ .

The Hon. J. G. WARD said it/would almost appear as if the mover of the amendment wished to avoid taking a. direct vote upon the question. The amendment was merely moved to burke the main issue, and he contended every member should fee called upon to give a direct vote upon the question. He recalled the condition of the country in 1887. When the reduction of the Governor's salary took place there was a period of general depression. He contended that the duties of the Governor were not so light ns some people stated. Governors had responsible duties to perform, and on their proper or improper method of carrying them out a great_ deal depended. It was ' hot an issue as to a democrarcy or an aristroeracy,' but one rather that, having a Governor, whether he should or should not have voted him a salary sufficient to carry out with dignity his manifold duties, social, or otherwise, not only cast upon, but demanded of him. The Governor, by his action during the trouble which the Empire had lately undergone, had helped to raise New Zealand to the front rank amongst British colonies. As to the financial position of the colony, the Government had not gone upon the London market for the last million loan, for the reason that the time was inonportufie;' but it redounded much to the credit of the administration of its affairs that the Government had been able to carry on and meet all its obligations without recourse to the London market.

Mr MASSEY said that until Mr Ward spoke he intended to have voted for the second reading of the bill, but after hearing that speech he would vote for the amendment, while if the bill reached the committee stage ho would support a moderate increase. Mr W. FRASER was not go: ig to be led away from the subject by a side issue. The question was not a party one, and he irtended to support the second reading of the bill.

Mr ELL intended to have voted against th« second reading: of the bill, but as the amend' ment was framed to obtain a parly advanta>g< he would oppose it. ' •

Mr HOGG supported the bill. As a gen vine democrat he desired no sacrifice either from the Governor or members of the Housi without fair remuneration.

Mr PIRANI denied that there was anj party move in the amendment, and personally he wished a straight-out vote on the sribieot.

Mr R. M'KENZIE supported the second reading of the bill, and considered tlio manner in which some members carried on tho debate derogatory to the dignity of the, House. Mr BARCLAY, while preferring a simple system on tho American plan without payment of a Governor, thought so long as the colony demanded such services as the Governor had to perform he ought to be paid for them.

Mr M'GUIRE! urged the House to go to division at once on tho main question.

The amendment was lost by_ 4-8 to 12* On the motion that the- Dill bo read a second time

The PREMIER repliad that it was not right that a Governor shu..ld be called, upon, to draw upon his private means to support his position, and the democracy should not be under such an obligation.

On the question beijig put, the second reading was carried by 43 to 15.

The House rose at 1.20 a.m,