HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 11182, 3 August 1898, Page 3

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

• TUESDAY, AUGUST 2. The House met at 2.30 p.m. MOTOR CAHS. Mr J. HUTCHESON moved the second heading of Mr M'Lean's Light '-locqmotives Bill, as reported from the Private Bills Committee. Mr MEREDITH objected to the bill as giving a monopoly to Mr M'Lean. Mr DUTHIE also objected !o the bill on iho same grounds, and moved that it be referred back to the committee with a recommendation that it be restricted to the city of Wellington. Mr GUINNESS, as chairman of the Private Bills Committee, said that no monopoly was given, in as much as a new clause had been added to make it compulsory on Mr M'Lean to issue a. license to any person 'squiring one to run locomotives, the license fee to be £3. Besides, the measure would lapse altogether ko soon as a'public act on the subject 'came into force. The ice was provided for with a view to Mr M'Lean being compensated, at i least in part, for the expense he bad been put to in introducing (lie bill. Mr MOORE thought the mere iact ol giving power to charge a fee constituted ;i monopoly. Mr SLIGO did not see where •• hote was any reasonable ground of objection to the bill, and thought the explanation by Mr Guinness made it plain that there was no monopoly in the matter ■ Mr BUCHANAN had no special objection lb the bill itself, but ho thought 'he Government should bring in a bill which would apply to, the whole colony and save Mr M'Lean ' Mr MASSEY thought that as Mr M'Lean had introduced the bill for his personal proiil, he : should bear all the expenses without any proviso to the effect that other motor cat' owners should have to obtain licenses through him. Tho Right Hon. Mr SEDDON pointed out that as originally introduced, the bill was restricted to Wellington, but the Committee on Private Bills had made the measure of general application, and in doing so had given Mr M'Lean power to issue licenses as a means to. compensate himself for the cost of introducing the bill. If the House objected to ih,(.t, in it hoar half of the outlay which had been incurred by Mr M'Lean; That would be far less than it would cost to pass a general measure, and Mr M'Lean's bill would have the effect of a general law. He suggested that the bill should be referred back to the committee, so that the question of the license fee might be reconsidered. Mr FRASER would not object to the bill on the plea of monopoly, but he did so because it practically ignored local bodies. Mr DUTHIE said that after hearing the Puennerls explanation he would agree that his amendment should merely refer the. bill ' back "to the Private Bills Committee. . . Mr M'GUIRE maintained that the Govern- ; ment should have dealt with the whole ques- j tion by means cf a general measure. Mr .T.; HUTCHESON said that to restrict i the bill to Wellington would assuredly be to establish a, monopoly, while quite the con- ; trary effect was produced by making it gene- j ral in its application. . i The Hon. Mr ROLLESTON hoped that as I Ihe bill was evidently going back to the Com- I mittee it would be brought into line with j constitutional principles. He objected strongly to empowering a private person to ! levy taxation as was done in connection with the proposed^ license fee. Mr M'Lean, how- ; ever, was entitled to consideration, and if tho | bill he.had introduced were made general in its application under proper conditions the House should bear, say, a moiety of the expense to whioh he had been put.' Mi CROWTHER objected to the power given under the bill to the Governor-in-Couo-cil,"which meant the Premier, which was becoming far too common in New Zealand. Me HOGG, said that Mr M'Lean wanted no monopoly, and none was granted by the bill, though he thought the proviso^ for licenses might be deleted. Mr M'GOWAN thought it was not well to give power to charge a license fee under the bill. . . Mr SCOBIE MACKENZIE said the bill was really a public bill, and should be re- , garded as such. At any rate, it opened up issues too large to be dealt with in a private bill. Mr G. HUTCHISON suggested that those interested should reconsider the whole bill, and see especially that the term " motor car " should be substituted for " light locomotive " in the intgrpretation cwuse. Mr FLATMAN objected to control by local bodies being left out of the bill. The motion to refer the bill back to the committee was carried. . . questions. In reply,to questions. The Hon. W HALL-JONES said that for various reasons he did not deem it necessary to ask Mr Back, general manager of the Tasrnanian Railways, to visit New Zealand to give information and advice as to the construction and working of the 2ft gauge light tramways. Mr DUTHIE asked the Minister, if he had observed that the loss on the book cost by salei of the Assets Realisation Board to the 31st March last was shown .to be £140,656, as against £309,907 realised, and that a com•parison of this year's sales with those reported on the 31sb March, 1836, appears to show a marked increase in the ratio of loss, and whether ho will refer the question of position and prospects of the realisation cf these properties to the Public Accounts Committee. The Hon. j. M'KENZIE said there was no necessity to refer the matter to the Public Accounts Committee. The book value was calculated on the whole of the estates, and as only portions of estates had in some instances been disposed of the difference between the book value snd the price realised on- these portions made the loss seem larger than it really was. As a whole, the sales had come out fairly near the approximate value put upon.the estates by the manager of the Assets Realisation Board. The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE said the department was making inquiries as to. the introduction of the codlin moth eating bird, though he believed that even in Gor-' many, where these birds were, orchardists were turning to spraying as a remedy. Other nt'.Rstions were replied to to the following effect: — The MINISTER FOR MINES has no knowledge that clause 31* of the Mining Act w.-ip boing oraded in many parts of the colony. Thfi Government cannot undertake to male-' inquiry into the claims of the promoters oT the chloride of gold treatment for drunken ness as carried out in the Hagey Institute. It would be better to arrange for a trial of the system in connection with.homes established wider the Inebriates' Homes Bill. The Government think great care should bo exercised in the matter of removing restrictions from Native Land. The subject will bo dealt with in legislation now pending. If the Housi authorise tho Government !o. provide for landless^ Natives, the mntter will receive attention in this connection, tho PREMIER-had no hesitation in saying that thfi Waikato Natives had been badly treated. The House rose at 5.30,

! EVENING SITTING.' . j The House resume4,at 7.30. A TACIFIO CABLE. On the motion of the PREMIER, the question of establishing a Pacific cable service was referred to the Public Accounts Com- ! mitlee. S THE DAIRY INDUSTRY. ! The Dairy Industry Bill was read a'second ■ time pro forma, and referred to the. Agn- , cultural Committee. : <■ ■ . i ' THE BANKING BILL. The House went into Committee on the, Bank of New Zealand and Banking Act Amendment Bill. On clause 6, Bubsection B, as: to the presi- ! dent instituting proceedings against the bank in any court of competent jurisdiction; if he declined to accept compensation, to recover • damages for wrongful removal from office, , Mr Wasos advised that the subsection bo j struck out altogether on account of its m- ! vidious character, — Mr Duthie raised the question whether the bank might not suffer m the interim between the time of notice to the president and his actual retirement from office in March next.—Mr It.' Thompson said it was well known the president would accept two years' salary as compensation for loss of office, and there was no need todisj cuss the subsections in clause' 6. The addition ! of a second year's salary to the compensation was really "hush" money.—The PREMIER ; held it would be necessary to pass the subsection in consequence of' what had already : been agreed to in the measure, and: also to ! safeguard the country. He deprecated the vise of such a term as " bush money" as absolutely unwarranted.—Mr Taylor said the matter was complicated by the discovery of ; the fact that the president would hold office till the end of next March; Had that been known at the outset it would have made a great difference, as members .had been under the impression that the president would be going immediately on the passage of the bill. He would take the first opportunity to. move the recommittal of the bill, go that clause 6, in.so far as it related to the abolitioji of the office of president, might be reconsidered.— The Premier pointed out that to immediately get rid of the president and the directors would be impolitic, and it might prejudice the interests of the bank to precipitate a change in management. Besides, he desired that the work of reconstructing" the management should lie accompanied with as little irritation as possible. Still, if the House desired to shorten the period for effectiiv* c'tie change that could be considered later on:—\Tr Smith said there was a growing feeling in the country that the Premier wns not in earnest in tiie matter of tho banking legislation. lf\ the [change was .necessary it should. be made as I soon as possible, and at any rate not later [ than tho time of the half-yearly balance, at j the end of September.— Mr Hogg argued that j though they were altering the machinery of I tho management they were not condemning the csxisting machinery, as' too'evil was to:be expected from continuing- the ~ present ■ control till March nest, year. —Mr Fraser showod that they had the auditor to /safeguard the interests of tho' bank, iintV^litue was no occasion to apprehend harm from continuing the existing management .till n4xt year.—Mr Duthie agreed with Mr Thompson that there was a very general leeling that the two years' salary offered'as compensation | was hush money.—Mr Wason deprecated.the 1 use of such terms, and said the best thing '■ the House could do was to offer ihe president ; the proposed compensation, and drop ail tho . other subsections in chaise 6, and uave done ; with the whole matter.—'Mr..-Mitts-cliaracter- ' ised the use of such term as '.'hush money" as altogether uncalled for; the land of thing which should not be said inside the. House, and dared not be said outside.—Mr Carson said that the real facts were that the president had in his.circukr io members challenged the House to institute an inqiiiry,'-and the Premier had done nothing to facilitate one. but everything to the contrary. He moved that the Chairman leave, tho chair.— The Premier said no inquiry could lead io any disclosures such as members appeared to anticipate, as the circular obviously only refeued to accounts whoso history had become public property.—Mr Duthie explained that he had made no charge against members in using- the term "hush money," whereby ho had meant that if the president took two years' salary as compensation the outside public would regard that as liush money taken by the president. --' MiTanner thought that to offer the president £4500 in cash, and at. the same time leave him the alternative to sue in the law courts argued, weakness in those making the proposals.—Mr Cbowthek' expressed- the opinion that if it was decided to dispense with the president's services it would be better to let him go immediately.—The Premier -said-thatJ'if members were anxious';to curtail the period' between the abolition of the presidentship and the, retirement of the president he would agree to recommit the bill to make the time of retirement the end of December.— Mr Carson, on this understanding, asked leave to withdraw his motion that the Chairman leave the chair.—Mr Taylor pointed out that the inquiry that members desired in connection withi. the, abolition, of the president- ! ship, was not any inquiry into the'bank's busij ness, but into the circumstance which bad I led to the original banking legislation.—Thp j Premier declared that to, find that 'out they would have to go back to the time.of those directors who had lost the shareholders' money to the tune.of four millions. He said [that if the president was to go at all, it were well that he should go at.once, but it was a forlorn,hope to suppose that the bill before thorn would be the last of the banking legislation.—Mr Sligo had never doubted, the unwisdom of the proposed legislation, which he felt convinced..would prove* a ghastly mistake. The bill would place the bank more than ever under political control, and he was convinced that irreparable injury would'be done to the bank; but the Premier had said the bill was necessary, and he would leave tjie Premier io bear the responsibility of his opinion and action.—Mr Pieani said that the information "the House would like to- get, but never would obtain, was information as to the conditions under which the banking legislation was initiated and carried thrqusb. and the loss of the shareholders' capita! had nothing to do with that.—Mr Carson's motion was withdrawn. In subsection C, that for/the purposes of legal proceedings the president be deemed to have been appointed to.his office by the bank instead of by the Goyernor-in-Council, and to have been removed from, office by the bank instead of by act, Mr Millar proposed that the word "duly" be inserted before tho word "appointed." He said his object in moving the addition was to place 'the president in an unquestionable position to maintain all his legal rights.—Mr G. Hutohison argued that the addition of the word "duly " would have no value, but would conflict with the context, whicli showed that the president, who had been appointed by the Governor-m-Council, should, for the purposes of the' bill, be "deemed " to have been appointed by the bank.—The Premier opposed' the amendment, as the president's appointment had been, and was, fully recognised as valid jn every respect. —Captain Russell supported the addition of the word "duly," on the ground that the president's position should be made as strong as-possible.—The Hon. Mr Rolleston objected to the bill as a whole, for the measure was altogether bad and dangerous, and what I was necessary first was an inquiry which ' would enable the House "to ascertain from the i president tho whole facts of tile conditions j antecedent and surrounding the banking legis- I lation. Still he would not attempt'to kill the I bill by indirect means, but would endeavour ! to make it as good as possible in its passage ■ through the House.—The addition of • the word "duly" was negatived by 45 to 16. Mr MrLLAR proposed another amendment in sub-section C k> the effect that the words after the Governor-in-Council .be struck out and be replaced by the words "Upon the' terms mentioned in the Governor's warrant ' of appointment at a- salary of £2250 a year."— The Premier again objected to any alteration of the sub-section as it stood, and said that ' the Crown law officers had advised him that ' the Government were not placing the president in an unreasonable position.—The amendment was negatived on. the voices, arid the'other sub-sections of clauße 6 were passed without discussion. A long discussion took place on clause 7, declaring void the contract as regards Hie salary, etc., of the president. The references in the clause to the inspector and auditor were ! struck out, and the clause restricted to the president only on the motion of the Premier, j The clause, aaesnemdd emfwypshrdestdhsrrh I The clause, a« amended, was carried by 37 to 17. On clause 8, sub-section 1, that the provision of the "Disqualification Act, 1878," relating to civil servants, shall apply to directors was struck out, the Premier not object- ; ing, and an amendment by Captain Russell ; substituted to the effect that members of either House of Parliament are ineligible for appointment by the Governor-in-Council j while members or for a period of twelve | months afterwards.—On the motion of Mr I Montgomery, a similar provision was added with regard to civil servants. Left sitting.