THE FIANCIAL DEBATE.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 10444, 21 August 1895, Page 2

THE FIANCIAL DEBATE.

JF_a United Press; Association.) .. Wellington, August 20. In the House of Repressntatives this afternoon, . ~".

.Mr. J.-W; KELLY resumed the debate oa the Financial Statement.,, He praisedjfflr Cadman's management of the railways, but strongly deprecated the raisiog of salaries, by Ministers at the present juncture. He hoped thp House would refuse to ass ant to the increases, although he .had very little hope of their doing.so. >;They were told in the Statement somesiiiug/!about the sinking fond, which proved to him thatthe Treasurer now. considered he had;bsen wrong in using this fund, and it looked to him like a death- bed ■■. repentance. He should vote against both the reciprocal treaties, and would give ; his reasorfs , :; at a.; future time. The action of the Minister for Lands in'• the Southland district with regard to; the unem-ployed-was worthy of; aiLcre^it.TvHevOSjected to an increased vole for■ >M.e_ce purposes.'and he also objected to the proposed Vancouver mail service, which he would strongly oppose at the prupnr Vioie. . .;,.,.- Mr. EAK-SSHAW blamed "the 'Government ! for dropping the report of the; Tariff: Co'mrnis- ! sion and bringing down proposals, : exactly i opposite to; what-was expected by ,the-House, iHe disapproved altogether of .the trip round j the cobjny made by Messrs Bsll and Hales to [ reporivbn the railways and public/works,, and | said he did.not .blame; tha men.themselves as jthey had nob had sufficient time to .perform the work; -.- '■ Referring : to Mr Cadman's.administration oi railways, he paid him /-high tribute for the,way he conducted his department^ -'If his administration, was to,be a.success large ;reductions would have- to .bo made", in'the department, which could- bs "done without impaiiug the efficiency ofthe railways.'.'" : The House adjourned from 530 to 7.30. . Mr ,EARNSHAW; continued his';remarks. He condemoed tbe: proposed tariff,treaties, and said that in every instance the. proposals would be against the xolony generally,.although there were certain rings and coabin&tions that/they might benefit. This colony could not-fforoV the " proposed bxpenditare on. the Vancouver mail service. He ventured to assert .there.was hot a member in the-.House who. was/satisfied with the amended tariff proposals', of -the Government...;.,lf; the Government had -eoine down with r ess onabie protecti on, to /the engineering.industry it would have hadthVefieict of revivingv that industry from its' lab'goishing condition. . The way ia which/the/,Cblb_i_l Treasurer had dealt with thisi industry, showed he had no knowledge oE the subject,-With which he was dealing. He expressed very; great disappointment at the failure at the/-Government to attempt a solution, of the unemployed difficulty, and declared, there s never ./was/.,a Government that 'had betrayed / the unfortunates unable-to. bbt-iu ' work as this Government had done during the "last recess. If the Government would not face this problem, the time would soon come when the country would demand that a Ministry who could do so should ' occapy the Treasury benches. All, that the Government had done in the matter was a sham; a delusion, and a snare to/the working classes.' ."* '.''"■•"•".'■"• '-' i:~ '• .'"- "'■;■- Mr COLLINS congratulated Mr 'Earnshaw on. the absence of that bitterness that had characterised his. speeches 12 months ago, and hoped shortly to see, him back within the Liberal ranks. He (Mr Collins) complimented the Colonial Treasurer otx the Budget, and considered every member who was not blinded by prejndics must accord him praise for. it. Considering the depressing" year the colony had paessd-through, and allowing that it/was a year of falling/revenue,'.-'the.; Colonial,- Ti-essarer should ba congratulated'; upon showing% enbsfcantial. surplus. The fell in revenue from spirits and. intoxicants he attributed to more temperat? living'onthe pari?of the inhabitants. Members should-not delight inithis- falij and then Mime the Government 'for-;it. ; The Government had made an honest attempt to meet/the unemployed difaculty, and he combated what- Mr Earnshaw .had "said -on' this head. It 'was gce-tly -to the /credit -of the Government- that 'thoy' had' -initiated/ work for uaezaployed ' which /yielded the; men . 253 ger week;: It. was : not to.be/wondered at that" with" such a largei expenditure. in; providing work for the unemployed there should be a small increase in the publio debt ;.,the only marvel was that the' increase- was hot larger. He expressed his sympathy with -an / old age psnsion scheme, and s- thought thair in this : direction ky the solution, of the: unemployed ; difficulty;.- The" suggestion; to remove .duiry eff tea altogether would not-afford much relief to the working man;/ ■■'"• r- '"' -sisy -r-.y -. The Ho'n.'Mr CAD_L_N depreiKitedsoineof the remarks that had been 'used towards the Treasurer during Qic debate. On the-whoJe, however, tho Treasurer had refuted the sccuea- • Satiocs that had been triad, against bim, -specially in regard to his mission to England. As to tbe Budget, members grumbfed last year becsuss it contained too much sensation,-and they grumbled this session because'it _id not contain enoagh "sensation. Some"; membera ■ wouid grumble'at anything. He strongly defended the co-operative wor&s, and said Messrs Ballance and Se_do_, who had inbrodeced tbat scheme intb'thecolony, were entitled to every credit. Taking everything into consideration the engineers on these works did their work well, but they were, liable to make mistafes like other pfiople, especially iv dealing with smallsectiocs. But the scheme should nofc be condemned on this account. Objection hsd been taken to increases iv salaries in: the public service, but he pointed out that many of these wiare due to amalgamation of offices,so that a reduction really resulted. He challenged those hou.: membsrs who objected to increases-to stand up in the HbDse and move that no increases be granted ' for the year. Membsrs freely talked of broken promises, but he challenged them to point to any promises that he had not fulfilled. He was prepared to justify every penny ho had expended in the administration of the Mines department.' The money had been ex_e_ded fairly, and he could tell the House-the vote in aid of prospecting had been overrun fully 100 per cent. Mr Duthie had talked of the gre»t expenditure en the Milford Sound road, and said one contrsc-or hnd declared the work could be done for £240. Well, he (Mr Cadman) would give £260 per. mile fer three miles of t_e work, iiroviciaA -gr Duthie would give a bond for £500 • that the work was carried out.—(Mr Du_hi_ : "I will see the man about it-.") One" feature of this debate waa that hon. members Rppositw admitted that there was a surplus tbis year. ' Hitherto they had denied, the existence ofsurplueee. The Government had increased the pubic debt less tban its predecessors, and oat of this increase of £1; 5-6,000 tbe greater part -wss returning more interest than was being paid for it. Former Governments permitted a policy of dritV, this G->v.<-.r_i_e-t had shown originality snd had exploited new ideas. Instead of following musty precedents it had created them, and the -colony* bonds showed higher than ever. The rt-.ilways had been virtually thrust upon the Government. The chauge was desired bythe people, and the chief charge brought against bis administration was that he was tao slow in effecting changes. That he regarded _s a compliment. Since IMaroh last he bad made _umerou.i seductions to suit local r?quire_H-ntt<. Tbo rate on shpsep was reduced SO pur cent, r.nd if no more sheep were carried they wouid have tost £7500, but the n-sult had been au enormous increase iv the number of cheep cwriied, and the loss would be only about* £500 a year. Increased rolling stock wonld, however, be required. • Notwithstanding the ds-ces-se iv rates there was a decrease iv some districts in the cttrrisge of wco!. Thry were doing what they could for local bodies, aud he wanted £10,000 for sidings to quarries, &c. All ihis was "not going s;o\t," Rli d if they would vote bjm tbe necessary ■ money he wvuld gunr-uJeB to become a very i popular Minister for Railways. The l?re_iier'a

Persons wa_iinc<; mon'r-y sceoinmodation should p.pply to Loudon Loan hociny, Albert Buildugs., Princes st-rest ■ (oppostte -x.O\ —Hy. Benjai—iin ■manager. Easy terms; small or '.arse sums— AbvtT)

Trt CANADIAN club -whisky.

idea of school excursions had proved a toon, nnd the reduction of general excursion rates was having such effect, that he doubted whether they would have sufficient rolling stock to carry everyoue. „ Then they were going to effect improvements in the lighting. If the railways - were paid for their sarvicas they would gst £40,000 from ether departments. He did not agree with Captain Russ?ll : that Ministers should Dot do departmental work. They musfc do so to keep in touch with the work, r.nd it would not do to leave it to under-secretarics, who were out of touch with the general public. . Opposition members who so freely criticised them would not dare to go to the couutry and propose to rs verso their policy of taxation, or any of tbe groat items of policy. Mr DUNCAN warmly supported the Government policy. He said the Advances to Settlers Act had had the effect of bringing down interest, and would keep down the rates. He had no doubt when the aduiiuiatration of the act worked more smoothly it .would prove a great boon to settlers. He defended the action of the Government in regard to the Land fojr S^tt!e-' ments Act, especially in the neighbourhood of Christchurch, and pdiuted to the prices put an some of- tbe properties as prohibitory. The present Minioter had done* aud was doing, more for land settlement than all previous Gtovernments had dove. It was abturd to isxpect the Minister to purchase laud for settle-.-tnents at prices demanded for suitable properties • around,Christcburch. . . ; ■ / Tho Hon. Mr WARD replied at 10 o'clock. He.said tho, debate showtd a great diversity of opinion on bath sides :: of the Houso. On scarcely one question did the Opposition itsrlf agree. As to the statements rrg.irding the gross and net debt, similar tables had appeared in the Budget of the Chancellor of the Exchequer since 1863. Members who criticised the issue of Treasury Bills evidently did ,not kuow tbat. the English Chancellor last jear issued 21 millions': of Treasury and Exchequer Bills.' As to sihhiug i unds they were created out of the consolidated: fund, and yet members objected to them btiiig; returned to that; fund.'Members who charged aim with mislt-ading statements should refrain from making surh statements themselves. The ..- fixing of an, early date for the collection oF the land tax was .necessary owing to the require-; ments of the Treasury, as- £600;000 of interest toba ■ met annually on the 29th October.' . Previous 'Governments had nO difficulty as, to . new. fiußUcitig; ms they lind alway s-.millions of , lo_n money ' 'to; draw on. ! Any Government could nuance them. : This Government had to' use its brains.- Members opiJosed the Advances' to ■ Settlers. office; but"they would no' more be nble to abolish that department than the Postal department, and.-it bad1 effected-a permanent reducti6a;in' interest.;' Looking "at thevlosn broadly, the fact remained - that the-' loan was raised-' afc* 3 per cent, -when members - »aid. it -could j not v^bis raised r::_t 1: less 'hon 4,-percent. The jjreatest - difficulty was iduhd by the Bank of, New Zealandiu securing paying investments for the extra -million;. i-Th^ Soverpment refused it,- and for some time thei Bank'.-Qf : ,News Zealand ; offered like rColonial' •■ Baik a direct deposit of .£150.000.;>; A similar »ffer was made to anothec bank,: which was refused altogether. The Colonial Bank reiu«ed to take it directly, but aijr*ed to take it at 3jr per cent, from the Government; The Bank of New Zealand was then idlowedjo tf ke £150,000 of consols, conoHonf-.Uy on its retrarjiferring them if the public desired it.- Any bank iv the colony would bi gl-d to get such an investment for its loan reserve, and the Government were justified in getfciugmtiuey al a low rate of interent. The Crown rights were retained against the £150,000 deposited with the Colonial Bank, so -that it would' be a first ;fi_rge. No other investment could be fouud in the country since for tho second million, and tt was only-within the last few weeks tbat an 'nvestment -was found for it at the other end of tbe world—in consol*, _t rates not ko satisfactory. Tho Government were nob usiDg the sinking i u__B wbich did uot accrue till 1896; they were issuing debentures against tt-«t_. That was a different thing. Sir Kobert Stout wonld not . believo thab he (Mr Ward) had the right Canadian, tariff. Sir Robert got' the information as to the wrong t able being in the Statement , from the Customs department in Wellington. The figures iv the Stiteraeut were based on the . right table and not the wrong one. Sir Robert should have tbid the customs officer that hewsa working at the wrong Statement; instead of w-iting to make political capital oot of the matter in the Honee. While thers was a strong feeling as to duties and grant in connection with the .treaties', the Government could substitute other articles. Sir ROBERT STOUT said he'got absolutely . no information ai to the tariff from the Customs department. He went thete .to see if they were dono with two books wbich they had out of the library. He did not know then that the wrong tariff was beiug worked from: The House then went into Committee of .Supply, but progress wa3 reported on the Estimates at onse.