THE TARIFF COMMISSION.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 10443, 20 August 1895, Page 4

THE TARIFF COMMISSION.

THE SOAP AND CANDLE INDUSTRY. Mr Charles Ziele, managing director for M'Leod Bros.. (Limited), soap and candle manufacturers, gave evidence before the Tariff Commission, as follows :— The Chairman : How long have the works been in operation ?—Since 18S3 uuder the present company. Do you employ many hands?—7o.to 100. At present we have 80. The wages average from £6 .a week downwards. £2 to £2 10s are the wages of the ordinary employees. Would you mind stating the annual expenditure in wages ?—Last year it was close upon £5000. You make caudles and soap ?—They are the chief articles of. manufacture, but we make other things. ; What is the annual output ?—Of candles, F0 000 boxes, each of 251b weight, representing a money valua.of £25,000. Of soap our monthly return is 150 tons, the annual value of which is £27,000. What are the other arucles you produce '--Oil glycerine, toilet soaps, and- culinary essences. ' Does the quality of your candles bear comparison with the best iniported ?—Yes. Are you speaking of stearine candles?— Yes ■ but we make paraffin candles also. We competed' against foreign makers in the Melbourne Exhibition and obtained the gold medal, and the first award at the Dunedin Exhibition. Against Price and others?— Yes. Do you make many paraffin candles?— Yes and equal in quality to the imported ; the material is imported and is manufactured here into candles Do you claim to be able to produce as good a soap as can be imported ?—Yes. No common soan is imported now. . . Can you produce scented and toilet soaps as good as can be imported ?—Yes ; but we have local prejudice to contend against, which, however is being gradually removed. ' We assume that you wish to raake some representations regarding the bearing of the tariff'on your industry?-Yes; hut I would first like to mention one or two other matters showing the extent and importance of our industry Our coal bill averages £lso^monthly; all colonial coalWestporr Castle Rill Kaitangata, and Greeu Island. AYe are using Castle Hill now. The consumption of timber is about £150 monthly It is obtaiued from Southland, and is worked ud into boxes by our own workmen. In paper the monthly consumption is about one ton and a-half We uso the blue and grey and divide the trade between the two mills, Mataura and Water of Leith What is the price ?-It is a contract. The next item is sulphuric acid, about £20 a month We obtain it from the New ZeaWl Drug Company, get our labels pnuted locally by the halfniillion, and we use £30 worth a month The largest item of all ls tallow, our consumption of which is over 100 tons a month. What does tallow rule par ton ?—At present the average price is about £18 a ton, andthe ictual consumption is about SO tons a month- thi. balance is exported. ' Now, how does the tariff affect you, and what representations have you to make on that head v_ I believe that a request has been made for the removal of the duty on stearine, on account of so™*local match factory. To co so would be an linjustice to the caudle makers, who produce steariue in large quantities from tallow. We have beea sS ne DS Unedm match factory w"h

Is your stearine as good as the imported ?—Yes ; we can supply it as good and as cheaply as it can he imported. If the duty were removed, would you still be able to supply it and to compete with the imported? —Certainly not. We should have to shut up our ca>'dle factory. Is the full amouut of the duty which is at preseut charged necessary to your success ?—Yes ; we labour under.so many disadvantages as against the Home manufacturer. What is the next point in connection with candles ?—There are the occasional shipments of lightweights sent to the colony—l4oz and 15oz. As reputed pounds?— Yes ; they are generally sold by the trade to the consumer as full weight, and a good deal of deception is practised in this way. Have you any proposal to make in connection with this?—lf possible, I think they should not. be admitted. You suggest that all candles imported should he tested for weight?— Yes. Mr Hutchison : They are tested, I understand, by the customs? —Thcy'pay according to weight. Mr Tanner: They pjy duty at per pound on j packages of reputed poUnds weight.?— Yes. The Chairman : How could you effect what you desiro—viz., to stop the importation of the lightweights ?—I do not know how far the Government powers extend. , . We want your advice as an expert?—l ouly mentioned the matter incidentally. 110 you think it might be done by putting on an increased duty on packages of reputed light weight—containing less than the pound ?—That would be one way. Mr Mackenzie: Soap, is not involved at all in your representations ?—Not with regard, to the tariff. 1 except fancy soahi.: Mr Tanner: You said you paid close on .£SOOO per anuum in wages: would that mean something les-i ?—Yes; something over £1500. You also said tbat the average number of hands was 80?— Yes ; it is a fair average, includina boys. If we reckon 50 weeks-in a year, that will give 4000 weeks, and working' that out amongst all hands (you s-ay you pay nearly £5000), the average weekly wage would be about £1 , a week and something additional. If it is £1500, it would be £1 2s 6d a week. . Could you give us the average wages?—l did not go into the matter minutely, and I am speaking very generally and only from memory. Would £1 5s a week be too high an average ?— It would be more than that. I think I must be out in my total. Ay c have 20. boys, whose wages certainly would reduce the average; they run from 6i a week upwards." That is the minimum wa_e, and the maximum £6 a week. With regard to the stearine,' are you not aware that representations have been made to the commission for the admission of stearine free ?—I haveheardeo. The plea'alleged is that stearine of sufficiently Rood quality for 'match-making cannot be procured in the colony?— That is quite wrong. As a matter of fact, we have' been making it and supnlying the Dunedin factory. Have ybu supplied any to Bell, Wellington ?— No; but I could do so if required. Are colonial-made candles all equal to the 16oz standard ?—Yes.

Mr Mackenzie: In effect, what you wish is to keep things,as they are?— Yea.

You said you would be obliged to close your factory if stearine were admitted free: do you mean pure stearine or stearine candles?— Either. We might import the stearine ourselves, and mould the candles the same as the paraffin r but that would reduce our hands', o one-tweiitieth. Two or three men could doit all, and all our stearine plant, with the exception of a : few moulding machines, would be useless. \

What is the value of the • stearine you make now ?—You could compute,that from the value of oui- candles. ; ''.■■' ' V-»:. . .

Do you mean to say that you make more stearine candles than you do of the ordinary plain candles? They are all stearine, biit of various qualit-es, except the paraffin. < .''■'.

Yn . use all the stearine for your own; candles?— Yes, except what we sell for niatch-making, and small quantities to chemists and others.

After the imposition of the'extra, duty in ISSS, did you not make a monopoly of candle manufacture in New Z«alao<i .^Not at all. Hqiv did that duty aff-ct the price tothe public? —Not at all. ' We issued a circular stating that it would not make any difference in our price. Had not the duty been put on we would not have been able to carry on.

But you made candles which were sold at 4Jd in ISSS?—They were very much inferior to the preseut. . . ' -..._. . '■■;-.

Is it possible to get auything.rnore inferior than we now get?— Yes. There were great quantities of pure tallow candles used thenr

But there wasa stearine candle sold at 4Jd about six years ago ?—Yes. We .vere losing £5000 a year at it..- '-.':. .■;...■..- ...- .7. ~..:. ■

What is the price of the stearine candle now?— Fivfcpence.net to the trade. '_;■_■ -s:7 .\. '•

What was ilie value of candies in ISSS?—I cannot say;'but all engaged in the trade'were losing mnney then. .. ' ; Ther.i are about 2,250Ji001b of candles imported from Home, are they chiefly paraffin ?—Yes; but there are some stearine.' r '•."..-' . ...' ' ;

Then, the twopenny ; duty on paraffin is not enough tok. ep them out ? Yqii said you turn out as good a paraffin candle as the imported one ?— W.i are making them'how without a profit, to compete;against the imported.' Yon get about 7d?— Less than 6Jd. And it costs nearly 7d ;to import the others?— They can be imported for less, duty included. Just now. it .leaves us a very small margi . for manufactuiing. Is that margin sufficient for you to compete against them?—lt is, so long as we are content with that ;>rofit. But wnat puzzles me is that so much can be imported of. tbat quality when you are able to produce an article at less icost than the imported?— That is the stearine. . - - How does the prica of your paraffin candles compare with the imported ?—lt is the same. • But you are getting no profit ?—No. And still the paraffin is coming in?— Yes. Mr Hutchison: I think you have' S3id that caudles are a little dearer now than they were ?— They have improved in quality correspondingly. But people could buy caudlts then cheaper; and I suppose they are buying them cheaper now? —I do not think so, unless by pressure of excessive competition. -• ' But the impression was that if the duty were increased there .would be no increase whatever in the price of candles to .'the. public; was that not so?— There is practicallyho increase, if you take into account the improved quality. Do j'ou not think there might be some difference of opinion on that point, and that you who advocate this protective duty are now pointed to as not having carried out precisely the promise made to the public at the time?—l say there is no ie-crease in price. . You say the quality is better; but, independent of that fact, people bought candles at 4£d for which they now pay s£d nominally?—l ao Eot think they ever bought them at 4\H retail. You may say there is a difference of'jd, but'there is fully Ji difference in the quality. That is from your point of view. Is there any othvr candle manufacturer in Otago?—There is oue in Wellington and one in Auckland, but no others in Otago. '■~"' Is it the case lhat you are all together in a syndicate, so that the price shall be kept uniform ?—No. There is no arrangement amongst yourselves so that the price shall be the same—that is to say, there is no competition ?—Tliere is competition, bnt we are certainly free to do what we lik'j. But there is no difference in the price at which you each sell ?—I believe the prices are pretty unifoi-m.. but .there is nothing binding on one another. ■ ,: But it so 'happens, somehow or another, that the three companies all'sell their candles at about the same price?—l believe so. There is nothing of what we understand in business as cutting or underselling one another?— Not that lam aware of. -.-.-', . Do your caudles look as nice as the imported ones?— Yes.. Mr M'Gowan : Do you know a candle known in the trade as " Price's National Sperms," and 'Young's British -7 Wax," also "Young's Fluted "?—Yes. Do you make a candle equal to any of them ?— We do. Those are principally a mixture of stearine and paraffin ; what is called composite. Have you had much demand for that kiud of candle?—Thu demand is chiefly for the cheaper kind ; but people are beginning to use the better cla^s. •' , ."•"'■•

Was there not aperiod when the manufacturers wi-re cutting one another, arid not working at a paying price?— Yes. : ■ I think you stated that some factories actually went to war?— They did. Was there not an understanding arrived at about that time that nofactory should sell below a certain price ?—No. ' ''" • . There was no agreement of that kind?— No. We awoke to the necessity of it without any euch agreement. It was absolute necessity that induced us. Our factory found this necessity out first, and gradually each of the others awoke to the same necessity. Did you all at one time find out this necessity ? —It was not simultaneous. Are you aware whether light weights are being manufactured in thecolouy ?—Not now ; I believe the Wellington company (Kitchen's) tried it once, but they aband«rmed it. I think they only made a very few boxes. I am speaking of seven yeais ago. Lo you know a foreign candle called the "De Riubaix, Jenar, and Co."?— Yes. Do you make a candle equal to that ?—Yes ;it is a mining candle, and we supply a great many mines now. They are most particular in the candle they use. And your candle is as good, if not superior, at the same price ?—Yes. The quality of the candle is chiefly in the hardness. We are making a candle of 126d*g melting point, and that is as hard as any imported candle you can get. You sell by-products to the amouut of ±5000 per annum? Then, the by-products pay your WAges?—They are about the same amount The Chairman : My attention hss been drawn to the fact that in ISSSthe importation of parafhn was to the value of £958, while in 1893 it had risen to £56.'i7. The imp .rt-.tion of steanne in 3888 was £1163, and in IM)3 £1 only, "ow can you account for that ?—At the earlier period we made scarcely a„y paraffin can.iles. . Tha value cf candles imported m ISSS wai £19,062, and in 1893 £42,363, notwithstanding the increased duty. Oan you explain that?—lhat is an extraordinary f.tct. ' Jt i.s to lie assumed that the consumption of candles iv the coiony has increased by something like 100 per cent. ?—lt has mc.eased very considerably; our business has increased by 50 per cent., nearly. ■ - ~■ ~ . Is that partly owing to the fact of the improvement in the manufacture of candles, and-that a better light can be obtained from them now than formerly ?-"jfes; there is a large consumption pf the colonial-made kinds, and _ that probably accounts for the largsr consumption of importod ones. „ ~ Is there any preference for paraffin candles over the stearine ?-On account of their appearance there is, but they do not give as good a light, but they look better. What is the Home price of the paraffin candles ? 4Jd per lb. . ... .. _x. CT Then, the 2d duty is 45 per cent, of the Home cost?— Yes. „■ » t v What is the price at Home of the average quality of candle ?-I think there are not so many qualities made at Home. It is only the better quality that is made there, lhe value of the stearine candle is about sa.