GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 9546, 30 September 1892, Page 2

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL,

THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 29. The Council met at 2.30 p.m. LAIiOR lULLS. The Industrial Conciliation Bill was reported from the Labour Bills Committee with amendments and a. recommendation that it be allowed to proceed. The bill was ordered to be committed next day. The Factories Bill, with amendments, was reported and ordered to be committed next day. BI LLS. The Native Affairs Committee reported on the Native Laads Purchase Bill, which they recommended should proceed with ainendmeuts. The bill to be committed to-morrow. The Customs Laws Consolidation Act Amendment Bill, Westlaud Churches, Schools, and Hospitals Reserves Bills, and Servants' Registry Office Bills were read a first time. BILLS I'ASSED. On the motion for the third reading of the Dairy Industry Bill, The Hon. Mr WALKER opposed the bill as being cumbersome, clumsy, and opposed to common sense. If this class of (government interference were continued, very soon no man would be able to put a leg of mutton into an oven without Government inspectors being present. He moved that the bill be read a third time that day six months. After discussion the third reading was agreed to, no division being called for on Mr Walker's amendment, and the bill passed its final stages. The Mining Companies Act Amendment Bill and Land Bill were also read a third time and passed. IN COMMITTEE. The Hukarete Native Girls' School Bill and Water Supply Act Amendment Bill passed their linal stages. The Westland, Grey, Inangahua, and Buller Counties Vehicle Licensing Bill was committed, reported with an amendment exempting mail coaches, and the third reading fixed for next day. SHOPS BILL. The Shop Assistants Bill was further considered in committee. The Hon. Mr OLIVER objected to the bill, and also to the amendments by the Labour Bills Committee. He moved that the Chairman do leave the chair, the object being to kill the bill.—Lost on the voices.

It was agreed to postpone the bill, the Hon. Sir G. S. Whitmore not being present to propose the Labour Bills Committee's amendments. ELECTORAL BILL. The Electoral Bill came back from the House disagreeing with the amendments of the Council. The Hon. Sir P. A. BUCKLEY moved that the Council do not insist upon the amendments. The Hon. Mr OLIVER moved that the Council do insist upon its amendments.—This was agreed to, and Messrs Stevens, Stewart, and Oliver appointed managers to draw up reasons for insisting. The Council at 4-. 55 adjourned till next day.

HOUSE; OE REPRESENTATIVES

THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 29. The House met at 2.30 p.m. THE LUNDON SCANDAL. The Native Affairs Committee brought up a report on the petitions of Hereiwini Toko and two others, who complained that John Lundon had wrongfully detained part of the purchase money for the Kaititi block, north of Auckland, and prayed for redress. The report of the com-' mitfcee was to the effect that the evidence shows that the petitioners personally received from the Government officer the full amount of purchase money agreed by the Government to be paid for the land, and that, therefore, the Government are in no way responsible for what is alleged in the petition. The committee are further of opinion that if the petitioners considered that Mr Lundon had uot acted in accordance with any agreement entered into with him, they should have appealed to the law courts before applying to Parliament, and that the Government be recommended to take petitioners' case into special consideration, with a view of affording the Natives assistance to enable them to bring the matter before a court of law.

The Hon. E. MITCHELSON moved—" That the report and evidence be printed." He spoke at great length on Blr Lundou's conduct over this transaction, and said that a grosser scandal had never been perpetrated on the Maori race than the sale of this land by Mr Lundou to the Government on behalf of the Natives. He pointed out that the report of the committee just presented had been arrived at on the votes of two Ministers, the Government whips, Messrs W. Kelly and Parata. The other four members of the committee, iucluding the chairman (who was a strong Government supporter), strongly dissented from the report, and recommended a much stronger one. They should have protected the Natives in the matter. The facts of the case were that last session Mr Lundon represented to Mr Cadman, the Native Minister, that he had received authority from a certain number of Natives to offer to the Government for sale blocks of land of the following areas :—1327 acres at 5s per acre, 14-10 acres at Bs, and 5200 acres at 7s 6d. A memorandum of agreement was entered into between Mr Cadmau and Mr Lundou for the purchase of those lands at the prices named. It subsequently transpired that Mr Lundon had no authority from the Natives to make this offer. He (Mr Lundon) returned to the north, and began dealing with this block of 5200 acres, informing the Natives that it was the intention of the Government to purchase this block for 4-s an acre. After some haggling, Mr Lundon said that as.the Natives were great chiefs the Government would probably give 6d an acre more. He then induced the Natives to sign the agreement to sell their land to the Government at 4-s 6d per acre. The agreement contained a clause to the effect that any profit accruing from the land over 4s 6d an acre should be given to Mr Lundon, as agent for the Natives. He (Mr Mitchelson) went on to say he had every reason to believe that those provisions were not translated to the Natives, who believed they were dealing direct with the Government. The Natives stated distinctly in their evidence that the provisions were not translated to them. Mr Lundon then obtained from the Government 7s 6d per acre, and gave the Natives 4-s 6d. He referred to similar transactions with respect to other blocks, and concluded by expressing a hope that the Government would take up the case, and would also cancel the license of the Native interpreter who had acted with Lundon in the matter Colonel PRASE R said ifc showed bad taste on the part of the committee to bring up this report on a day set apart for local bills. He therefore moved that the debate be adjourned till Tuesday. The Hon. Mr ROLLBSTOiSr hoped the House would not consent to an adjournment of this matter. He said he had never heard of a more disgraceful case than this one, and he hoped the debate would be continued as they had only as yet heard one speech, and he should like to hear the opinions of the Native members on it.

After some discussion, The Hon. Mr SEDDON promised to afford an opportunity for bringing the matter up again not later than Monday afternoon. The motion for adjournment was agreed to. ELECTORAL HILL. The Hon. Mr SEDDON brought up the report of the managers on the Electoral Bill explaining the reasons why they disagreed with the amendments made by the Legislative Council m the bill. He moved—" That the House agree with the report of the managers disagreeing with the amendments." —Agreed to.

FISHERIES.' The Hon. Mr SEDDON, in reply to Sir J. Hall, said that a commission of inquiry would be set up during the recess to consider the fisheries question. Mr WRIGHT said after the assurance given by the Acting-Premier, he should move that the Fisheries Conservation Act Amendment Bill be discharged from the order paper.— Agreed to. SECOND KISADINGS. The Westlaud and Nelson Coalfields Act Amendment Bill and Gisborue Harbour Act Amendment Bill were read a second time, and referred to the Waste Lauds Committee. MILLS PASSED. Gisborne Harbour Act 1884- Amendment Bill, Cook and Waiapu Counties Bill, Wellington Corporation Streets and Lands Bill, Whaugarei Drillshed Bill, and Wanganui River Trust Bill were committed, read a third time, and passed. ADJOURNED. The Woodville District Hospital Bill was committed, and strongly opposed. Mr MOORE moved that progress be reported. Agreed to. The House rose at 5.30 p.m.

EVENING SITTING.

The House resumed at 7.30 NATIVE LAND TITLES. The Hon. Mr CADMAN moved tils; second reading of the Native Laud Validation of Titles,' Bill, to provide for inquiry into incomplete dealings with Native lands. He said attempts had been made for years past to deal with this question, and the bill was another attempt to settle long-standing disputes in this direction. The bill was intended to relievo some of those persons who, having broken no law, were kept out of their titles by technicalities or other irregularities. He explained the provisions of the bill in detail, and said that as far as he knew the Natives themselves approved of

Mr RE SS appreciated the desire of Ministers to settle this great question, but he thought Mr Cadmau had altogether underrated the task he undertook, and he was certain that the machinery of this bill was in no way adequate to settle this difficulty. He pointed out that there were already 11,000 cases awaiting setlement in the Native Lands Court, and the Native Minister thought two years would be sufficient for the court to inquire into any cases that might be brought under this bill. He spoke at great length on the whole question and contended that the Native Land Court

could not possibly deal with these cases, and that the proper way was by the appointment of a Royal Commission.

Mr BUCKLAND thought the bill a good one, although he regretted it was brought in so late in the session. Ho hoped, however, the bill would pass.

Sir G. GREY said the bill contained the whole future of the colony, but he thought the Native Minister had no idea of the effect of his bill. Under it one family alone would be entitled to obtain 110,000 acres of land with no settlement conditions whatever, and he deprecated creating a landed aristocracy of that kind. He called on the House to treat this as an attompt to do au injustice, and said they sought to give the land of the colony away in this manner.

Mr TAIPUA opposed the bill, and did not think it contained anything to benefit the Natives, As the session was just about to close, it was nob a fittiug time to bring it forward, and it would be much better to leave the bill over till next session.

Mr KAPA disapproved of many portions of the bill, and thought that at least 3,000,000 acres of land would be affected by it. If that were correct, there would be very little land for the Natives.

Mr FISH asked Ministers to hold the bill over till next session, and appoint a Royal Commission to deal with all the troubles that.had occurred between the Government and the Natives. Ho looked on the bill with great suspicion, and although he had hitherto been a Government supporter, it made him consider his position.

Mr W. KELLY said if the Government could see their way to settle the disputes that existed on the East Coast and elsewhere he would be prepared to support this bill even without appointing a Royal Commission. He agreed with Mr Buckland that if there were not sufficient judges of the Native Land Courts to inquire into the cases referred to by the bill, other judges could be appointed. He had always disapproved of the committee system, as he did not think they were workable at all. As to the bill itself, he should support it, and he hoped Mr Cadman would press it through, although he regretted it had been put off till so late in the session.

Mr HOUSTON said Mr Cadman was to be congratulated on the introduction of the bill, and said it was evident that Mr Fish had an unreasonable opposition to it. The whole bill, in his opinion, provided a safeguard both for Natives and Europeans. He regretted to see Mr Rees take up such a hostile attitude towards the Native Minister.

Mr W. HUTCHISON complained of Native affairs being so much neglected in the House, and kept back till so late in the session. He did not know that the present bill would carry out the intention of the Native Minister ; but it appeared to him to be an honest attempt to deal with this vexed question, and was, therefore, deserving of the support of the House.

Mr LAWRY supported the bill. The Hon. Mr CADMAN said he proposed to send the bill to the Native Affairs Committee. He read a memo, from the Chief Judge of the Native Land Court to the effect that the court could deal with a certain number of cases likely to arise under this bill without much trouble, but that others could not be dealt with by the court. Many cases could be dealt with by an ordinary R.M., and therefore no commissionwas required. The motion was agreed to. LAND AND INCOME TAX. The Land aiad Income Tax Assessment Act Amendment Bill was committed. Clause 3, additional exemptions from liability to tax. Mr MOORE moved to add to the list of exemptions mortgages held by societies registered under the Building Societies Act in New Zealand.

The Hon. Mr WARD (in charge of the bill) said he could not accept the amendment, but would be prepared to more an amendment in clause 17 which he thought would meet the case, by which the capital and not the deposits of such societies would be liable to taxation.

After a lengthy discussion, Mr JOYCE moved to strike out savings banks from the exemptions.

The Hon. Mr WARD regretted he could not accept the amendment, as the Government had received information that a number of small depositors in these banks required relief. He should ask the committee not to vote for it.

Mr THOMPSON (Marsden) hoped ' the Government would allow members to vote with a free hand on this bill apart from any party considerations. If not the Government would find the bill would take longer to get through than they anticipated.

The Hon. Mr SEDDON said there was no desire on the part of the Government to exercise any coercion on their followers over this bill, but; he thought savings banks should bs exempt from taxation.

Sir Joyce's amendment was lost by 32 to 22. Mr Moore's amendment was also lost by 30 to 19.

Me HOUSTON moved to exempt standing timber, provided it was not exempt from taxation in the income derived fromsuch timber. The Hon. Mr WARD could not accept the amendment, as it would mean the loss of a very large amount of revenue, and would exempt all the standing forests of the colony. Mr RHODES said that as this land and income tax came from Auckland it was only right that Auckland members should have the benefit of it. He pointed out that if standing timber were exempt it would relieve the Kauri Timber Company from taxation to the extent 0fL19,000. Mr THOMPSON (Marsden) remarked that standing timber was taxed uuder the property tax.

Mr ALLEN said Auckland people, who so strongly agitated for the repeal of the property tax, were now beginning to find out that they would not escape taxation so much as they expected. (Left sitting at 2 a.m.)