UNIVERSITY COUNCIL.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 7539, 16 April 1886, Page 4

UNIVERSITY COUNCIL.

An adjourned meeting of the University Council was held yesterday afternoon. There were present: The Rev. Dr Stuart (cluncellor)

j.l Justice Williams (vice-chancellor), the Hoi

W. H. Reynolds, the Hon. J. Bathgate, Dr Burns, Messrs J. H. Harris, T. M. Hocken, J. Roberts, J. Macandrew, M.H.R,, J. Fulton, M.H.R., and R. L.Stanford.

CHAIR OF MENTAL AND MORAL SCIENCE. The Chancellor mentioned that the business before the Council was the question of rescinding the resolutions regarding the Chair. -of Mental and Moral Scieuce.

Mr Macandkew : I beg to move—"That the resolution of March 10, adopting the resolutions

prepared by the Committee, be rescinded." M}' reason for moving that it be rescinded is, among others, that the motion was not adopted by a majority of the members present. Had you.

vlr Chancellor, given a deliberative vote, and

\'oted with the minority, the numbers would have been equal; and had you exercised your casting vote in the same direction, the motion would have been negatived. I think the proposals referred to in that motion are such as it would be very unwise and impolitic to proceed with, unless, at all events, the Council were all but unanimous concerning them. We are asked

to apply to Parliament to transfer to this Council certain endowments which are now vested in another public body—a body of gentlemen representing a large and important section of the community, and I have no doubt that the pre-

;ent possessors of the endowments will not

readily relinquish. I should be ashamed of my fellow countrymen if I thought they would

tamely submit to any such proposal. That is one of. my reasons. However, there are other reasous that • have influenced me; aud oue is that, knowing as I do the

idiosyncracies of the Parliament of New Zealand and the hetrogeneous elements of which it is composed, I should dread asking them to

deal with any of our reserves—either educa-

fcionalor otherwise. There is no doubt whatever that there are a number of men in Parliament who would be very glad to see these reserves applied to making roads in the North Island, just the same as our land fuud is being applied now. I know for a fact there are not :i fow members of our Legislature who are prepared to-morrow to deprive us of these endowments and to put them into the one pot, and to that extent relieving the Colony of the enormous burden which it has now to sustain in

connection with primary education. In fact it

was only the other day I read in a paper here that a distinguished statesman in this city expressed himself very much in that direction, and I think it would be exceedingly unwise on our part to open the door, as it were, to this part of the Colony being plundered any further than it has

We have been plundered in the past, as

everybody knows, and I think it behoves us at all events not to take the initiative in any action by which we may be still further plundered in the future. Of course there are other reasons in favour of rescinding the motion which might be adduced, but I think I have said sufficient —atanyrate I hopelhavesaid sufficient

to induce the Council to let things remain as

they are. No doubt it is proposed in this report to ask the co-operation and concurrence of the

Synod, but I confess that seems to me very much like asking a man to stand and deliver—pointing a pistol at his head at the same time. The position it is proposed to take up is, I think, alto-

gether unworthy of this Council, and 1 therefore move that the resolution be rescinded.

Dr Burns seconded the motion.

Mr Macandrew : I think the first step is to rescind the resolution, and subsequently to propose another resolution. Mr R. L. Stanford : If this is likely to go to a vcte I would say that I should certainly feel inclined to vote with Mr Macandrew did the resolutions propose such an end as that put forward—that is, of removing the endowment from the Presbyterian Church to the University Council. I should like to point out to the (Joimcil that the resolutions do not go that length; that there is no proposition to transfer • the charge of the endowment from the 'Crust Board to the Council in that resolution, or anything approaching it. I should like to add with regard to our noli doing this or that for fear (if some measure the Legislature might take impounding our endowments, that we have very ;iften during the last 10 years had that held out to us as a red flag, and it has always seemed to me to be the apology or reason set forward for mismanagement of some sort or other—to put money into bricks and mortar or into a stone building, so that it cannot run away. It has always been to do something that partakes of the nature of mismanagement—to part with our Funds in a particular way, because if we do not they will be taken away from us. Well, I think it is far better that they should be taken away from us than that we should misuse them.

The Chancellor : You do not propose anything? ■ Mr Stanford : No; i shall simply vote against the motion. Mr Fulton : I have an amendment to propose to Hr Macandrew's motion, and that is— " That the resolutions sought to be rescinded be considered seriatim." It will be in the memory of members of the Council that I said that the great object I sought was to get the law amended so that professors once appointed should be always under the control, and under the sole control, of this Council. I feel that we complicated the questions very much indeed by the acceptance in a very great hurry of Professor Shiind as the appointee of the Synod; and I confess that I think we have been somewhat inconsistent perhaps in refusing to accept Dr Salmoud, when we accepted immediately afterwards another appointment made by the same Synod. It is said that in so doing we were only taking over one who had been previously appointed ; but still I feel that we certainly accepted a professor appointed by the »S\ nod without a word being said as to holding over the appointment until steps had been taken to amend the law. I think we ought to be consistent, and I therefore move, as affecting the principal object, the amendment of the law— " That the clauses of the resolutions sought to be rescinded be considered seriatim."

The amendment was not seconded,

Mr Roberts : Will Mr Macandrew indicate in what direction he means to move if his resolution is adopted ?

Mr Alacandeew : My objection entirely is to our going to Parliament with a view of transferrii).; tiie public trust of one body to another.

I tiiiu'i that is arrogating to ourselves too much.

Mr S< .uiford talks about, mismanagement. Of

cours.; if there were mismanagement and a real

grievance to be rectified,-*! should not hesitate to go to Parliament; but Ido not admit there

is any mismanagement at all. Mr Stankord : I did not- apply that to the Boari". Mr jlacandhew : If the resolution is rescinded, then I take it we should have to consider the appointment of Professor Salmond —as to whether or not we are to accept that appointment. Mr Roberts : You will remember that iv commitiee I was with you in voting against the proposed legislation, and to that extent I am prepared to support you. Mr Macandrew : That is mainly my object. At present I am not going into the question of Professor Salmond's appointment. With regard" to to " red rag," it must be known that there have been considerable grounds for apprehension from what we have experienced, and that to some extent our reserves have been confiscated. Take our primary education reserves for example, which would have saved this part of the Colony from the expense of education to a great extent. They have been taken away ; and is was only the other day I read a speech of one of the most distinguished statesmen in the Colony, in which he told the people of the North Island that his blood boile I when lie saw the education reserves of the Kouth. I think this is by no means such a light matter as Mr Stanford seems to suppose. If it is the wish of the Council, I will withdraw this motion and take the resolutions seriatim. I ha\e no objection. Mr Fdi.tox : If these resolutions are not consider ;d, I do not care a straw about Dr Salmou.i's appointment, and I shall decline to vote regarding it.

Dr Hocken: I move as an amendment— " That the resolutions stand as they are." The Chancellor: Voting against Mr Macandrew's motion will secure that. Dr Burns objected to the motion being with Irawn ; and ou the vote being takan Mr MuC'iudrew's motion was carried by five votes to t iree, Dr Hoekon and Messrs Harris ami Star, ford voting against it. Tiie Hon. W. H. Reynolds : Before proceeding, Mr Chancellor, I should like to speak with regaid to some remarks of Mr Macandrew's. I would not like it to go abroad that we have lost

our primary education reserves. No doubt then; have been attempts made to get them, but we hiive not lost them. So long as the

Government pay the whole of the cost of education iv the primary schools, the revenues derived

from those reserves are applicable towards reducing the cost to the Government; but suppos-

ing at any time the cost of education should be thrown upon the districts, then those reserves

will remain the property of the Provincial Dis-

triot of Otago.

Mr Macandrew: There is nothing in the Education Act to show that.

The Hon. Mr Reynolds : No; but there is in the Education Reserves Act. I merely wanted to say that because I would not like it to go abroad that we have lost the reserves, though virtually the revenue from them goes now to the Crown. The Chancellor : The only question now is the appointment of Dr Salmond by the Presbyterian Synod to the Chair of Mental and Moral Science. That matter is" before u.s by a communication from the Synod. The Registrar read the letter notifying the appointment of the Rev. Dr Salmond to the Chair of Mental and Moral Science, at a salary of £600 per annum, with an allowance of £50 per annum as house rent when required to give up his present residence. The Hon. Mr Reynolds : I .should like to ask ~ou, sir, whether it was agreed to by the Church Board of Property that he was to have a salary of £600 per annum and £50 in place of a house? The Chancellor : It was not before the Church Board of Property. The Hon. Mr Reynolds: It would appear from the letter that it was. Now the resolution of the Church Board of Property was.to the effect that the salary was not to exceed £600. The Chanckllok : Our solicitor told us that the Synod could make the salary what it liked. Mr Macandijew : I think the question before the Council now is: Shall this chair remain vacant or shall it be filled up? Is it to be vacant until the Council itself is in a position to endow it. or shall it be filled by the Synod's appointee? That is the question. I venture to think that had the Council adopted my propost'l in the first instance, and communicated in the terms of ray letter with the Church Trustees, the chances are that the chair would have been thrown open to competition. However that has not been done, and it appears to me that we have now just two alternatives, and the question is whether in the interests of the University it would be right and proper that the chair should remain vacant, rather than filled by Dr Salmond. I confess that I, for one, having regard to the interests of the University, am not prepared to see it remaining vacant, and if nobody else will move that the Council accepts the appointee of the Sjnind on the usual terms, I take it that he will be just as much under the control of the Council as any other of its professors.

Tne Chancellob: Oh, yes; there is no doubt of that. Although ths Act of 1866 does give the Synod thepoweiynotof controlling the instruction, but of removing the professor if he should be disposed to be heretical, there is no likelihood of that being done. Dr Burns moved—" That the Council receive Dr Salmond as the Professor of Mental j and Moral Science." . ■. I Mr Jlacaxdhbw seconded the motion. ' Mr Fdltox : I should like to ask whether it ] is competent for me to move the first four I resolutions of the report submitted at last meeting as an amendment to the motion. The Chancellor : I have some difficulty in ruling on that point. I thought the Council had concurred in the verdict of Mr Macandrew, and it seems to me that I must say the resolutions are not on the table. Mr Stanford: It does not seem to me that there would be any objection. The Vice-chancellor : But supposing Mr Fulton's amendment were carried, the motion would be lost; and.he does not want that, I think. He might move it as a kind of rider to the motion. The Chairman : I think Mr Fulton might tell us his object. Mr Fulton :My object is this: I am anxious to see this Council standing in a proper position with regard to the professors, having the power of appointing or removing them only at its own wish. I think the present state of things is anomalous altogether—that another body should have the power of removing them. Mr Macandrew: That is one of the conditions under which they accept the chair. Mr Fulton : Perhaps the mover would postpone his motion until mine regarding these resolutions has been put. Mr Stanford : They have just been rescinded. It seems to me impossible to move them as a substantive motion. , The Chancellor: Mr Fulton's motion is not antagonistic to that of Dr Burns. If the resolutions were adopted it would not prevent the carrying of Dr Burns' motion. Dr Burns: It turns upon this: shall the Council and the Synod come together to get s.n amendment of the law before or after Dr Salmond is accepted ? The resolutions referred to, contained, in a previous report of the Committee, were then

read. The Chancellor : I thought what was especially negatived was the fifth resolution only. That one I have a great objection to. Mr Macandrew : I think in considering them again we should be stultifying ourselves. Mr Harris : We have done that already. Mr Macandrew: There is no finality, it seems. ■ The Chancellor : It seems to me there could be complete finality even if the first four resolutions were adopted—although I do not want to see them adopted. There is no reason why both things should not not be done if advisable. The Hon. Mr Bathgate: I think the resolutions would follow very well after the appointment. A conference between the Council and the Synod would then be necessary iv order to try and remove all chance of future trouble. The Chancellor : I am unwilling to give a ruling against the feeling of the Council. The Council can settle the question themselves. I am not bound to. Mr Fulton : I hold the resolutions could be carried without touching at all the acceptance or rejection of Dr Salmond. Mr Macandrew:. The whole object of rescinding the motion will be defeated if we proceed to pass these resolutions. The Vice-chancellor : I thought the sting of the resolutions lay in the fifth. The Chancellor : I thought so too. It seems there is an unwillingness on the part of the seconder to yield place to Mr Fulton, so we must proceed to consider Dr Burns' motion. The Hon. Mr Reynolds : I should like to say that I intend to vote against the motion, for the reason that I do not think that the appointment was properly made. In the first place I consider that thu Church Board of Property should have inserted an advertisement with the view of getting the best man that could be got to fill the chair. Then Ido not see how it is possible for Dr Salmond, after the remarks he has made at various times, to retain that ■ oflice, knowing that the appointment was forced on the Church Board of Property and has been also unpopular with this Council. Such being the ease, I think in the event of our just refusing to accept his nomination, he would as a matter of course retire, and then the Church Board would be able to carry out their original intention of advertising and getting the best man that can be got. That is my reason for voting apainst the motion, and I trust that Dr Burns will withdraw it; or if not, that the Council will be unanimous, or nearly so, iv rejecting it. Mr Harris : I thoroughly agree with all Mr Reynolds has said, and I feel confident that if Dr Salmond is the man I have always taken him to be he would not accept office now. In self-respect—setting aside the irregularity of the whole proceedings.—l do not see how any man could acee;.'. ~d I think the course indicated by Mr Reynolds is the proper one. Mr Fulton : As I am quite indifferent about this appointment, I shall ask you, Mr Chancellor to excuse me. (Mr Fulton here left the meet-

Dr Hocken- .- I shall vote a-jainst this motion, because I think an important principle is involved. The first duty of the Council is to ret the very best man, and the step that should be taken-m., to advertise-has not been taken in this case. lYithout saying a word as to Dr Salinoud's capabilities—of which I know nothing—l am aware that the routine has not been

fullowed in this case, aud on this ground I shall vote against the motion.

_Mr MacXndrew : I regret that Mr Reynolds did not give expression to his opinions by submitting a motion a couple of months ago on the same grounds. As I said, rather than prejudice the University by allowing the chair to remain

vacant, I shall support the motion.

The Hon. Mr Ketnolds : I havo all along stated the very same thing.

Mr Macandrew : You did not vote for it. Mr Reynolds : Mr Macandrew proposed what was an impossibility. The appointment was already made, and he wished to remit it agaiu to the Church Board.

Mr Roberts : I shall vote against the motion, and I may express my surprise at reading the proceedings at last meeting of the Council. If I mistake not, this motion was moved in committee ; all the members were present except the Chancellor and Viue-chancellor, and at that time the mover of the motion was the only one who supported it. My surprise was therefore considerable on reading the proceedings of last meeting to find that a considerable amount of support had gone over from one side to the other.

Mr Stanford: The Chancellor, Vice-chan-cellor, and Mr Bathgate were absent on the first occasion.

The Vice-chancellor: I am inclined to support the motion for this reason: The appointment has been made by the persons entrusted to

make it, and I am not prepared to say that the circumstances under which it was made. are such, as to put upon the University the duty of inquiring whether or not Dr Salmond is a qualified person. At first I admit I was under the impression that the circumstauces were of such a nature that before accepting the appointment we should have inquired into the qualifications, but I explained at last meeting my reasons for altering that opinion. We cannot, I think, unless there is some special reason, constitute ourselves a court of review to review the appointment which has been made b3 r the constituted authorities. I think, too, there is a great deal in what Mr Macandrew says—that if we decline the appointment we shall be preventing the students receivirg any instruction in these subjects. I shall therefore vote for the motion. Dr Hocken: Surely the Synod would proceed at once to elect someone else ? . . 1 The Chancellor : I am not sare of that. Hon. Mr Reynolds : There is one point 1 think members should know.. It will become the duty of the Church Board of Property to advertise, supposing Dr Salmond is not accepted, and submit someone for the approval of the Synod. ".-'■.

The Chancellor : But the Synod might not vote a salary. I intend to support Dr Burns' motion. One reason is that I took an active part, in electing Dr Salmoud as one of the church trustees, and besides, although. I greatly disapproved of the part the Synod took, and still disapprove of it—l think they acted most unwisely, and that their action tends to prejudice them in the eyes of the community—at the same time I consider it would be a calamity ;o leave that chair vacant. lam not quite sure but that the result would be that the Synod would just steadfastly refuse to appoint a professor of "mental'and. moral science altogether. I took a part 15 years ago in getting that chair in the University, thinking it was one that would be highly prized by the community and of great service to future professional men and to the education of the Colony, and I cannot allow myself, because of my dissatisfaction at the conduct of the Synod, to give a vote that would practically shut the chair for a time and probably lead to its abolition. Hon. Mr Reynolds : It would lead to the abolition of the Synod having anything to do with the funds in future. The motion was then put, and there voted: — For:, The Chancellor, Vice-chancellor, Dr Burns, Messrs Macandrew and Bathgate. Against: Dr Hoeken, Messrs Reynolds, Stanford, Harris, and Roberts. The Chancellor: It is very unsatisfactory that an appointment should be made on the casting vote of the chairman; but holding the views I do, I must give my casting vote in favour of Dr Salmoud. Hon. Mr Reynolds : In Parliament the practice is for the chairman to give his casting vote iv favourof delay. The Chancellor : Well, we are not in Parliament, Mr Reynolds. j Mr Stanford: It is the usual thing, certainly, for the chairman's vote to leave things in static quo. ■ i The matter then dropped. ' I . FINANCE REPORT.

The Chancellor said he had great pleasure in stating that the treasurer (Mr J. Roberts) had taken extraordinary pains in preparing a report showing the financial position of the Council, which report he would ■ ask him to bring before the meeting. Mr J. Roberts presented the following, report :—

I have now to place before the Council a statement of the income and expenditure for the year ending the 31st March. From this it will be noticed that the total revenue amounts t.> £9659 11s lOd, and the expenditure £10.85t> 4s lud, showing an apparent deficit of JElliiii I,'Js. This is accounted for by the fact that during the year ending Slst March ISSS three half years'rents for Barewood were paid and. passed through the accounts, hence only one half-year's rent appearing in the statement now before you. If credit bu taken in the past year's I accounts from the rent prepaid and appearing in the^ previous year's accounts, it will be seen that tho income of the p.i<t year only exceeds the expenditure by the sum of £83. As applications hare been made by tho Council's tenants for an abatement of rent, it may be_.expected that 1 should indicate what reductions in the expenditure cnu be suggested, with a view to meeting a considerable shrinkage in the income, which I I ear must be laced if -the present vecy depressed times continue. After considering the Finance Committee's report on the proposed l eductions, and alter having consulted the Chancellor on the subjeel, 1 venture to state what I believe can | lie accomplished without impairing the effioieucv of I the institution. * I deductions' on the amounts expended during the jwist y«ir on the following: — House allowance to Professor Sale ... ;EIOO 0 0 The Uhair of Mathematics bein« vacant, and a lecturer at £150 salary doing duty instead... ... ... ."..450 0 0 Fees payable to lecturersLaw ... ... ...J3J.O Surgery ... ... ... 50 — 100 0 0 Assistant mathematics ... £25 Chemical laboratory ... ... 50 — 75 0 0 Museum ma'ntenance ... ... 200 0 0 Apparatus and chemicals •-■ ... 3*o 0.0 Furniture and fittings ... ... 100 0 0 Law costs ... ... ... 75 0 0 Water, iuel, and light. ... ... 25 0 0 Increase of rent of Cistle street house ... ,21 0 0 Total reduction ... ...£1416 0 0 iNCIiKASES: .' - Costs of books for library ... £230 County rates due, but not paid JO Dr Ogson's salary ... ... 20 > Piissnge-nioney ... ... 70 Simdri' s, advertising, &c. ... 40 Additional lora lecturer on midwifery ... ... ... ('6 Apparatus for Professor Shand... 150 lteductions in allowance by Government for chemicals * ... 100 899 0 0 Jfefc reductions ... ... £550 0 0 I have attached hereto a statement showing last year's expenditure in black and proposed a terations "in red. The net result is somewhat disappointing, seeing that the total reductions suggested amount to the not inconsiderable sum of £1416. During the now currrent year there are some exceptional items of expenditure, such asCost of books for library ... ... ...£230 Dr Ogson's passiige-money and sundry expenses ... ..." ... ... 110 Apparatus for Professor Shand ... ... 150

Amounting in all to ... ... ...£490 which could be saved another year. Against this, however, must be placed the extra cost of the Mathematical Chair (£-15u), which must be filled before May 1, ISS7. , : - .-:. ~ .":-

It is apity the Forest Hill property is lying wholly unproductive, and I suggest that another attempt he made to secure a tenant, even though the rent obtainable should only cover rates mul taxes.

I desire to draw the Council's attention to the sum of £371 6s od, being the proceeds of land sales at Forest Hill, and which up to the present has not been invested.

This sum is considered by the auditor as capital, and should be invested, and I suggest that it be immediately placed at iixed deposit, so that it may be kept separate and distinct from ordinary revenue.

1 have also to state that the sum of £"31115s Id is due to the. Council for interest and rent; and as a considerable portion of this sum has been overdue for some time, I suggest that the matter be remitted to the Finance Committee, so thnt they may take the necessari" steps to recover the amounts. Johx IiOBERis, Treasurer.

April 15,1556.

The Hon. Mr Reynolds wished to know how the Council would stand at the end of March supposing the suggestions were carried out. Mr Robkrts replied that if. the reductions were made and no allowances granted to tenants the Council would finish the financial year with a credit balance of £630.

The Chancellor remarked that ifc would he for the Council to consider whether it would not be necessary to make reductions to the tenants, for the couclution he had come to from their statements was that some of them were in e.rtremif. ..... Dr Hocke.v thought.reductions would have to be made, because if they were not some of the tenants would be forced to take the benefit of. the bankruptcy law.

Mr Roberts thought there was a diffieuUy in deciding whether they were entitled to make reductions.

The Hon. Mr Retxoi.ds was fafourable to fair reductions being made, but he could not see how such reductions could be made, seeing that the Government had declined to reduce the pastoral rents of their tenants and had recovered all with the exceptiou of a few.huudred pounds, for the recovery of which instructions to sue had been given. , Mr Stanford suggested as an equitable way of dealing in the matter that the loss of the tenants should be ascertained, and an amountequivalent to one-half of that loss remitted.

It was agreed that the report and papers should lie on the table and be brought up for consideration at the next rneetiDg of the Council, and that the Finance Committee should get the solicitor's opinion regarding the applications for reductions of rents made by. Messrs Bethune and Orbell. ANXV>AL KEPORT. The draft of the annual report of the Council of tlie University for submission to the Government was read and approved, Mr Macandrew being requested to prepare for addition to it a i paragraph dealing with...'the question of the School of Mines.

—Mohammedanism has made great strides in Africa within the last SO years, and Christian missionaries freely say they will soon have to deal with it rather than with' paganism. . ,: