GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 6728, 7 September 1883, Page 2

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Thursday, Skptesibek 6.

The Legislative Council met at 11 a.m., and immediately passed the Property Tax Bill and the Public Revenues Bill through all stages. The Council then adjourned from time to timo till 9 p.m., when tho two Appropriation Bills were sent up. They were then passed through all stages, and The Council rose at 10.15 p.ni,

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Thursday, Septkmbkk ti.

The Houso met at 11 o'clock a.m. to-day. KEPI.IKS TO QUESTION'S.

Replying to a question put by Mr Bracken, The Hon. Mr JOHNSTON laid Government saw no reason why ministers of religion should travel free in the train to Seacliff Lunatic Asylum for the ptirposo of visiting patients.

Replying to Mr Holmes, The Hon. Mr CONOLLY said it would be inadvisable to employ the Solicitor-general to conduct and defend in Wellington actions in which Government was interested, as it would necessitate maintaining the regular staff of a lawyer's office. The duties of tho Solicitor were to advise Government on any point of law which might arise, and these were numerous. /

Replying to Mr Duncin, The Hon. Mr JOHNSTON said Govern-, ment would not pay railway employes wages for tho time thoy were employed as jurors at an inquest case. Government would not supply platelayers with shovels, nor yet grant them the three public holidays usually allowed public servants. Replying to Mr Daniel, The Hon. Mr JOHNSTON said the laying of heavy rails between Makerewa and Thornbury was proceeding. Government could not at present interfere with the existing postal arrangements at Lake Wanaka, Replying to Mr Hamlin, The Hon. Mr ROLLESTON said tha subject of placing light-beacons at Manukau Heads would be inquired into. • Replying to Mr Kelly, The Hon. Mr DICK said Mr Bowron's pamphlet on the manufacture of cheeso, btitter, and bacon would be distributed over the Colony amongst persons interested in the subject. '

Implying to Mr W. White, The Hon. Mr JOHNSTON said Government would see what could be done for unemployed petitioning for work. Government waa not aware that workmen from Addington railwayshops had been engaged repairing the Catalonia. Prisoners foom Lyttelton and Addington had boen employed at those shops doing certain work, but tho amount was very trifling. Replying to Mr StewarJ, , The Hon. Mr JOHNSTON said Government could not consent to the express train stopping »fcW»itaki North. MEMBERS' WIVK3.'' The Hon. Major ATKINSON moved— '.'That the fares oi members an J thai-wives residing moro than throe mile* from tho Scat of Government be defrayed bj Government for attendance at' Parliament." Thn House divided.—Ayes, _i 9 ; noes, 15. COMMITTEE OF SCPPLY. The House went into Committee of Ways aud Means, when the" usual resolution preparatory to tho Appropriation Bill was adopted. On being reported to the House, and tho motion to introduce the Appropriation Bill being made, Mr SEDDON complained of the- treatment private members' business had met with at the hands of Government. At an early period of tho session they took away one of the private members'' days, and latterly they deprived them of any time whatever. • The Hon. Major ATKINSON replied that in effect members had two days per week for their private business. In addition to these two days specially set apart for them, they had liberally availed themselves of the order-paper for questions, motions, and for bringing forward thoir grievances, in going into Committee of Supply, monopolising, as they did, so much time. It would be impossible to go on with the Government business at all unless some restriction was made.

Sir GEORGE GREY complained of the discourtesy shown to private members by the Government, and recited a catalogue of omissions pn the part of Government, dwelling at length upon the neglect of Government to produce the original agreement with the Bank of New Zealand. He.moved—"That the resolution from the Committee bf Wayß and Means be not agreed to until the original agreement between the Bank of New Zealand and Government be laid on the table.",..

Tho Hon. Mr ROLLESTON, in reply to a question put by Mr J. M'Kenzie, said it was a matter of regret that the House had to part without having got provision mado for the pastoral laws as proposed by his Land Bill. The bill dealt with other matters of administration the want of which would be much felt. He was hopeful, however, the Legislature next session would come to the subject with more clear and better-defined ideas upon the point. It was difficult for him to aay what course he would pursue during the recess with these laws, but this hecould assure them, that his mind was absolutely made up to discountenance •in overy possible way the alienation of these lands in large tracts. He hoped that explanation would bs received as a general indication of the course he would pursue with respect to the whole question. Mr TURNBULL complained that the pugnacious disposition of tha Treasurer had made matters this session less smooth and comfortable than tbey would otherwise have been. _ The motion for the adoption of the resolution passed in Committee of Ways and Means was put, and carried on the voices. APPKorniATrox bills. On the motion of the Hon. Major ATKINSON the Appiopriation Bill and Public Works Appropriation Bill were introduced, and read a first and second time. During the progress of tho latter bill, Captain MACKENZIE complained of tho Authorising Bill to construct the Gore-Kelso railway having been thrown out by the Council. Ho attributed this .to the fact of tho late period of tho session at which tho bill had been introduced.

Messrs Steward, Harris, Duncan, W. C. Buchanan, Shrimski, J. M'Kenzie, and others complained of neglect experienced by their respective districts in regard to public works. The Appropriation Bill and Publio Works Appropriation Bill wero then committed.

Captain MACKENZIE moved an addition to the latter to authorise a purchase of land required for a. railway in his distiict. . Lost on a division by 24 to 11.

Mr DUNCAN wished to add a clauso authorising the construction of a bridge over the WaitaJvi, but was ruled out of order. Both bills were reported, and On the motion for the third reading of the Appropriation Bill, Mr MONTGOMERY moved tho postponement of the debate until the remainder of the business had been disposed of.

The House divided on tho question for ad ournmont of the debate.—Ayes, 13; noes, 27

The bill was road a third time and passed

After further discussion, Mr Montgomery, Sir George Grey, Mr Turnbull, aud others urging that it was unconstitutional to bring on other business after the Appropriation Act was passed, The Hon. Major ATKINSON said the only questions the Government intended to bring on were the discharge of the Public Accounts Committee and tho report of the Dargaville Committee.

Mr SHRIMSKI and Mr SEDDON urged that both matters should bo allowed to drop this session. On the motion for agreeing to the titlo of the Appropriation Bill, further discussion took place, and was interrupted by the 5.30 adjournment.

Evesinq Sitting. *

Tho House resumed at 7.30 p.m. APritOPRIATION' BILLS. The bill was then put and passed, as was also the Publio Works Appropriation Bill. PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE. On the motion of tho Hon. Major ATKINSON, tho Public Accounts Committee was discharged. dargaville isqcirv. Mr MASON moved that the report of the Dargaville Inquiry Committee be adopted. He said -the inquiry had been conducted with as little party or personal feeling as could possibly ba clone. Every opportunity was afforded Mr Dargaville for tho purpose of establishing his allegation, and they had arrived at a unanimous decision.

Mr J. BUCHANAN counselled them, now that they wero on theeve of separating, to sink all differences, and allow the matter in dispute to drop. Let the dead past bury its dead. Thn facts wore now circulated through tho ! Colony, and the public would form its own opinion on the subject, independent altogether of anything Parliament might say. He asked moderate men on both sides to aid him in bringing about a pacific settlemont of the difference. With that view he moved the previous question. Mr MONTGOMERY said that they should not adopt the report or carry tho matter any further. He was deeply impressed with tho importance of maintaining the honour ofthe House ; still, he thought that on this matter the repoi-t fully vindicated the Treasurer, and that tho matter should not be pressed further. It would appear to tho country m the light of a party vote He quoted from tha records of the Imperial Parliament to show that a similar caso thero had not been pi ty-sed. It would be a wise thing to press this matter no further. The Hon. Mr BftYCJi agreed in the opinion just expressed, that thoy should depart in peace and sin no moro. That was not only his own opinion, but, hebelisrod of every one of his colleagues. No doubt the allegation had been mado in the heat of debate. Now th»t It had

mved at this stage, he thought the House might fairly expect that the charges would be withdrawn. The slightest expression of regret from the member for Auckland City West would at once end everything. , Mr DARGAVILLE said there was a principle underlying this question. It was whether or not a member was to be deterred from expressing what he believed to be the honest truth by a fear of consequences, He would be unworthy of a scat in the House if he refrained from giving expression to bis convictions. It was a packed committee to whom the investigation was remitted.

The SPEAKER called Mr Dargaville to order, and he withdrew tho word ''packed." Ho wont on to say that the report of the Committee was a moßt unfair, one-sided one and not in accordance witli the evidence. That was his opinion. He did not "caVe whatthe opinions of others might be. There had - not been evenhanded -holding "of the ' scales of justice in tho inquiry..; He quoted largely from the evidence, and .submitted that every important part of the charge he had mado was fully supported by evidence.;. The evidence showed that the Treasurer was a party • to the transaction with the Bank. - It had beeu attempted to be shown that thelnsurance Commissioner had power to make tho investment on his own responsibility. No one who knew the two men—tho overbearing character of the Treasurer on the one hand, and the ' weak, obsequious, sycophantic, Commissioner—: could doubt that the former was cognisant of the investment. He quoted from "Thn • Public Reveuues Act'lß7B" to show that this class' of investment was illegal. The Commissioner would ' not havo dared to make such "an investment had ho not had ' the, concurrence of the Treasurer. 110- was fally convinced that the Treasurar had nnduly favoured that institution, and, holding: as he did such opinions, he was not to be deterred from expressing them. Ho had acted from a "sense of duty, and in his own mind he felt he would not exchango places with the men who were' trying to seroen themselves from the consequences of their misdeeds.'and had.attempted' in this matter lo work out hia political ru}n.He pointed out the discrepancy in the statements bf witnesses-despite the fact, that theyknew beforehand the subject on which-they were to be examined, i'- The Treasurer wits in possession of the opinion of the late Attorneygeneral and present Solicitor-general, that these investments were illegal, and yet in the face of that knowledge he must -lie held to have made tho investment. - A further: opinion:■■ from tho present Solicitor-general was taken since theso proceedings originated; which confirmed the foregoing opinion as to theillegality of the deposit. Ha must therefore have known that his action was illegal,-and it was upon the knowledge of that thathe (MrDarga- * ville) founded his charge. Again, md the Public Revenues Act just passed;; there:was a ' clause making such deposits legal. He could have no stronger evidence of" the; illegality of what had previously been done. _,It might be that the treasurer interpreted the law in a" different way, but then he (Mr, Dargaville) hacU, the same right to bis interpretation, and.if the free expression of opinion was to be stifled bythe fear of a Committee's investigation: they - might bid farewell to the liberties-of :the - people. Government had tried to gauge the free expression of the opinions of tho repf esehtatires' '" of the people. He challenged •th'efa to follow up this report to its legitimate issue, anddeclare his seat vacant. He would- then have an appeal to his constituents^and'then they, would find who was in, the right. To-stop, at;' merely adopting the report would be pusillanimous, and. deserve contempt. He would onthis single question of political corruption meet beforo his constituents the best man the'politi--cal ring could bring againsthim.. H6'supposed, however, that Major Atkinson would -.*■ be satisfied with being whitewashed -by ,j>lt/: Mason and his servile following.' ' All indepeiK '■'"■' dent members had already gone away.-.s 'Wheh "•'■--•' he recalled all the political corruption of which this Government had been guilty,,he was amazed at his own moderation; He absolutely';' refused to withdraw a single word or express a singlo regret. He believed he was-justified-in - even going further, and he dofted-.the..Govern-ment and was prepared to" accept anyconse-. quences. Any decision of that House on-the-matter he would treat with the contumely which, in his mind, it would deserve. -:. ,'-'-'•■ • Mr TURNBULL regarded the report'as a reasonable and fair one. They might simply adopt it and carry the matter no further. The member for Auckland City \V9st seemed desirous of being made a martyr'of,.arid-had exhibited great warmth, but really the-House'"'" should not take any further notice of the matter. : -•'■' •'- -- -: -' ■■' ■•■■-'.- '.-.'■ ■-.;- *

Mr HTJRSTHOUSE said it was a miserable '"-'■ exhibition they.had listened.to. Mr Darga- ■■■'■■ ville told them he would defy.the House; and , . the sooner they proceeded to" an extreme the better. It was a most humilitating exhibition they had just witnsssed. -~-.'• Mr SEDDON argued that this whole matter was simply a diversity of opinion. Such being the case, he thought it would be unfair to censure a member who had the courage of hia ■ opinions simply because they did net happen to '■ agree in their opinions. '.* ,'::,-. Mr MOSS supported the amendment. .What r.-< constituted political corruption was a very wide question, and one-upon which no two - ' men were likely to agree. ... What"; one man-' "'■ would call'gross political corruption, another--V- ''■ man would say was no corruption at all. -The-, Jj.honour of the Houso was not affected by what ono member might say or do/ What affected ■:■ the honour of the House"moro was'the idea.-"■ that Parliament should do anything to Blippress the freedom of debate. _.- ..-. j'-'- -..-:,-. •:-,,■■

Mr SHAW said that the -charge made by- .. Mr Dargaville that the Treasurer;gould not bold his seat but for the influence of the Bank ' of New Zealand was a direct insult, aggravated by the fact tbat it had been made repeatedly, - and again reiterated that night. , A charge like 7 that reflected upon every member of tho House,." mora especially those members who-supported . the Treasurer in office. It meant.this: that ' they were the willing tools ofthe Bank of New -: Zealand. As a gentleman, it was Mr Dargaville's duty to have said he bowed to the decu sion of tlio House, although lie might have -.' thought at iho time that he was warranted in "> making tho imputation he did. Mr DODSON Baid Mr Dargaville evidently gloried in the little notoriety this matter had given him, and was too obtuse, to see what kind: of notoriety it was. In theso circumstances it would be wiso to allow the matter to drop. No ' ono had suffered by-the speech or the charges ' made. He hoped the Treasurer would _see his way to rely on his own hanonr, and let the thing drop. Major HARRIS defended Mr Dargaville, contendin^.that in justice to himself ho could not withdraw tho charge or express regret. Mr SHEPHARD.said thafcafter the speech . made by Mr Dargaville it was impossible; the: - matter could rest where it was. Tho report of the Committee was arrived at withouta single division, although it was-composed of-merabers from both sides of the House:. They -were bound to support tho Committee who had heen * so unfairly assailed. ..'.,

Mr SHEEHAN said that language far stronger than that used by Mr Dargaville had passed without challenge. He was ho advocate for strong language, but he would ask why pass by older and more able offenders and take up a comparatively young member. What man had been maligned moro persistently than himself, and yet no ono had ever taken exception to it. Major Atkinson had himself to; blame' for thia modo of strong expression often indulged in. Mr Dargaville had said that he made no charges of personal dishonour, and having stone so the matter should have dropped. All Parliamentry precedent wont to prove that at the timethe objectionable words were used they should be taken down, and the offending party tasked to withdraw them. Tho higher principle" they: had to look to was tb the effect this Committee's inquiry was likely to exercise on tko freedsm of speech. -It was a significant fact'that'the Speaker allowed tho alleged objectionable language to be made use of without checking the speaker. , It was not the caso that the trial was a strictly impartial one. . The accused could not get the witnesses he wanted, while those on the other sido woro available to the Government. The Houso could tako'charge of its own honour, and did not require any com," mittee-to vindicate that honour. He hoped thei amendment would be carried... '.---.\-».

Captain MACKENZIE-andMr STEVENS supported the motion, and condemned. Mr Dargaville's speech. _ _.'-..."..

Mr BARRON hoped Government' would accept the amendment. ■'■:'--:

The question was then put. . The-House divided: Ayes, 30; noes, 17. The amendment being thus lost, the motion for the adoption of the report was put, when all who had voted-in tho minority iv the. previous division, except Mr'Barron and Mr White, withdrew; tho Hon. Major Atkipson also withdrew. .-:'-.,.-■

Mr BARRON demanded a division; .when ;he motion wa3 carried by 29' to 2.

DIVIEIOS LI-T. Ayks (80) :.Me.-srs Beetham, Bryce, W. C Buchanan, Conolly, Dick, Dodson, Driver, Hobbs, Hurst, Hursthouse, O J. Johntton, W. W. Johnston, Kelly, Levestam, Jlackcnslo, Mason; Morris, Pearson, - Pettis,' Postletbwaito, Rolleston, Shxw, Shephnrd, Stevens, Trimble, Watt, Whitaker, J. B. White, J. G. Wilson. Noes (17); Messrs Barron, J. C. Brown, J. Buchanan, Daniel, Feldwick, Grey, Hariu, Hutchisni, Joyce, J. M'Kenzie, Montgomery, Seddon, Sheelran, Sliiimskl, Smith, Ttmnbull, W.-'Whits.

The House adjourned at 10.30 p.tn. to 3-p.in, on Saturday for prorogation.