HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 6384, 29 July 1882, Page 2

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Friday, 28th July. The House met at 2.30 p.m. REPLIES TO QUESTIONS. Replying to Mr Kelly, The Hon. Mr JOHNSTON said that under " The Telegraphs Act, 1865," the Governor-in-Council had made a regulation that Government would not be responsible for errors, omissions, or delays in transmission of telegrams, nor for non-transmission of telegrams, or_delay3 in delivery thereof, from whatever i "cause the same might arise. Replying to Mr Kelly, The Hon. Mr BRYCE said that compensation had been awarded Capiain McCarthy, of the Hannah Mokau, but the letter containing the cheque had been returned through the dead-letter office, and now stood at the unclaimed balance in the Audit Office. It would be available for M'Carthy whenever he claimed it. The amount was £15, and that was all the claim Government recognised. Replying to Sir G. Grey, The Hon. Mr JOHNSTON said the increase of pay to railway employes would take effect from the 31st inst.

Replying to Mr Tale, The Hon. Mr JOHNSTON said Government had under consideration arrangements whereby tho inhabitants of Eden Terrace, Newmarket, Epsom, and the other suburban districts of Auckland would be enabled to post newspapers at the soveral local postboxes, or, at all events, some arrangement whereby the inconvenience would be obviated. Replying to Mr J. M'Kenzie, The Hon. Mr DICK said that with the view of obviating the necessity of removing prisoners on trial from Naseby to Lawrence, it was proposed to make arrangements for the trial of such prisoners at Oamaru. Replying to Mr Fish, The Hon. Mr ROLLESTON said that the Propriety of planting the Sandhills reserve at (unedin with forest trees, and making it otherwise suitable for recreation purposes, had engaged the attention of Government. The • work was delayed in consequence of the dispute in connection with Pritchs.rd's contract, but the proposal would not be lost sight of. Replying to Mr Cadman, The Hon. Mr ROLLESTON said Government had been attending to tho work of replanting forest trees. Provision would be made in the Supplementary Estimates to enable local bodies to take tho matter in hand and prosennin tk^_uf»r]E with OnGl'gV. ... * Replying to Mr Seddon, The Hon. Mr DICK said Government would take the opinion of its legal advisers as to whether members of the Westland Education Board wero personally responsible to refund £125G appropriated by them from the Building Fund, 1881. Government were not in the habit of insisting upon vouchers being produced before paying over money so appropriated, and as they were fully advisee^ of all the circumstances of the case they did not deem a commission of inquiry necessary. BILLS. The following bills were introduced and read a first time:—Roads and Bridges Construction and Counties Act, 1876, Amendment (Hon. Major Atkinson); Resumption of Lands for Gold-mining Purposes, and Goldmining on Public Reserves (Hon. Mr Rolleston). On the motion by Sir George Grey for leave to introduce a bill to reduce the burdens now imposed on the people by enabling reductions to be made in the property tax and customs through the imposition of a tax on laud in proportion to its value, exclusive of improvements. The SPEAKER ruled that it was ultra vires of a private member to introduce a bill altering or remodelling the mode of taxation. That power rested with the Government alone. Sir GEORGE GREY argued that as private members had a right to deal with grievances, it was necessary that they should nave the right to deal with questions of taxation, otherwise grievances could not possibly be remedied. Moreover, he contended that the ruling of the* House of Commons was in favour of and supported his contention. The SPEAKER adhered to his ruling, and the introduction of the bill was disallowed. The following bills were read a second time: —Mining on Harbour Board Reserves j Mining on Education Reserves; Mining on Water-race Reserves; " Canterbury Rivers Act, 1870," Amendment. NATIVE RESERVES BILL. Tho debate was resumed by Mr TAWHAI, who said that he had seen copies of the bill to bo circulated amongst the Maori population, and they, in common with himself, looked upon tho bill as most unsatisfactory. The Hon. Mr BRYCE said that while the Public Trustee would have a general control over these reserves, he would be assisted by a Commission. Government had no intention, as had been alleged, of withdrawing the measure. The idea of placing theso reserves under the Public Trustee had been mooted in the Native Aifaix-s Committee. The argument was that it would prevent a certain pressure being brought to bear on Ministers in connection with those reserves. The trustee was assisted, and in some respects controlled by a board, and he thought it would be wise to put a Maori on that board, and Govornnwnt would accept an amendment in that direction. Ho would be able to givo valuable advice with regard to the management of those reserves. Again, the bill made provision so as to prevent too large a quantity of tho public estate coming under the operations of the board. He agreed in the opinion that there should be a subdivision of the land to a very great extent, but that would bo a work of time, and many years would be required to arrange such a subdivision. While ho did not agree in the opinion that the Maoris were dying out, he had means for ascertaining that they were not so numerous as was stated. Tlioy wore decreasing at one time, but that state of matters had of late been checked. There was a considerable desire on the part of tho Maoris to sell their lands. Now, if they wero to be a permanent race, it was right that an inheritance should bo secured for them. This bill went very far in that direction. Ho agreed that their Lands must be made reproductive, and not locked up without any chance of being made reproductive. That aspect of the case had been carefully kept in view in framing tho bill. The working out of tho bill would bo in tho interests of both races. He believed tho time would come when the land would pass out of tho hands of the Public Trustee into that of the Minister of Lands, assisted by the land boards. Mr BEETHAM spoke in support of tho bill, contending that it would operate in the interests of both races. In cases of succession he believed that tho bill would be largely taken advantage of. Mr DANIEL spoke against the bill, Mr WHITAKER deprecated the proposal to place their lands in the hands of the Public Trustee. That officer had already too much to attend to. There was much, however, in the bill that he approved of. The debate was interrupted by the 5.30 adjournment. Evening Sitting. The House resumed at 7.30 p.m. NATIVK RESERVES BILL. Mr WHITAKER resumed tho debate on the Native Reserves Bill, announcing that he would support tho motion for the second reading, although in Committee he would move in the direction of certain amendments. Mr MONTGOMERY said that tho bill would give tho proposed board immense power. That board practically consisted of the GoYornment, so that in reality those large powers

were placed in the hands of the Government of the day. It seemed to him that was a most dangerous proposal, and that the board should be so constituted as to bo independent of tho Government. The proposal to put one Native on the board would not, he concluded, meet the emergencies of the case. The board ought to be as independent of Government as was tho Audit Depaitment. Constituted as thaj board was proposed to be, he was bound to vote against the bill. Mr SKDDON and Mr THOMSON spoke against the bill. The Hon. Major ATKINSON said that it was not right to hand over theso lands to the Natives to deal with them as they might think fit. In that case all manner of imposition would be practised upon the Natives. Some protection must be provided, and ho concluded that they would have to be managed by a board. What was wanted was a board free from political influences, and if in Committee Mr Montgomery could show that they could be placed under a more independent board than that proposed, in that case he would have tho support of Government. The only political officer on the board was the Colonial Treasurer, and he would like very much to see that officer taken off the board, as

he had already quite enough of work to do. He hoped he had shown that the principle of the bill was to escape political influence. The mover of the amendment that the bill be read that day bix months did not object to the reserves being managed by a board. What he wanted was that they should be managed, not by » general, but by a local board. There was no real principle in that objection. Mr MOSS said that the bill would place enormous powers in the hands of an irresponsible minority. They could do a large job there with perfect impunity. There was a report, which he believed-was true, that at that very moment there were men negotiating for large tracts of Native lands under the Thermal Springs Act. He asked Government to say whether or not that report was correct.. Mr MAC ANDREW denounced the proposal as a monstrous power to .pass into the hands of any board, and for that reason he would oppose the bill. Mr WATT supported the bill. It was a measure calculated to protect the Natives against the acts of unscrupulous persons .of the European race. The House divided: —Ayes, 40; noes, 34. The division-list was as follows :—

Aybs (40): Messrs Allwritfht, Atkinson, Eeethani, Brown J, E., Bcj'cc, J Buchanan, W. C. Buchanan, Conoily, Dick, Driver, Fergus, Fitzgorald, Fu'.tin, J. Green, tfobbg. Hurathouso, Hurst, 0. Johnston, VV. Johnston, Levin, F. W. Mackenzie, Mason, H'MlUan, Mitchelson, O'Callaghan, Peacock, Pearson, Petrle, Postlethwaite, Kolleston, Sutter, Sutton, Swanson, H. Thomson, Tiimble, Watt, Whitaker, J. B. Wbyte, Wright, and PiUiet. Noes (34): Mceatß Bnrron, Batbgate, Bracken, J. C. Brown, Cadraan. Danitl, Dargaville, De Lautour, Duncan, Feldwick, George, Grey, Harris, Hutchison,

Joyce, Lovostam, Maeandrcw, M'Donald, j. M'Konzio, Montgomery, Moai, Seatou, Sheehan, Shepbard, Smith. Stevons, Steward, Tuwhai, J. W. Thomson, We, Tomoana, Tumbull, Weaton, and W. Whito. The bill was then read a second time. OTHER BILLS.

The Hon Mr BRYCE moved the second reading of the Native Land Division (?) Bill.—Carried. The Hon. Mr DICK moved the second reading of the Leaseholders Qualification Bill. Mr MONTGOMERY approved of the principle of the bill, but objected to its details. Mr JOYCE opposed the bill on the ground that it would strengthen the pernicious system

of plural voting. Mr GEORGE would not oppose the bill, but in Committee he would move in the direction of limiting the voting powers of any particular class.

Mr TURNBULL thought it might be made a useful measure if the voting power was limited.

The House divided: —Ayes, 31; noes, 21. The bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Tuesday. The Aliens Act Amendment Bill was further considered in Committee, and reported with additions.

The "Sheriffs Act, 1858," Amendment Bill was further considered, and reported. On the Mining Companies Registration Validation Bill, Mr SEDDON moved that progress be reported. The Hon. Mr DICK said he had no objection, and progress was reported. The Education Districts Bill was committed, and reported with amendments. The Industrial Schools Bill was reported with amendments.

The House rose at 1.30 a.m.