PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 2461, 25 December 1869, Page 6 (Supplement)

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Wednesday, 22nd December,

Mr HAGGITT stated, in the course of some remarks which he made on the question under discussion, that so far as the negotiations relative to the agreement were concerned, the hon. member for Waikari had stated nothing with which he did not perfectly aad entirely concur. Beyond that he did not wish to go. He was not so perfectly aware as the hon. member regarding what took place afterwards. The meeting referred to by Mr Driver was held at nine o'clock in the morning, and as he did not receive his notice until a quarter-past 10 of the same day, he arrived at the meeting when a portion of the business had been disposed of. He next entered into an explanation regarding the arrangements in connection with the proposed Clutha Railway, and contended that good reasons could be given for the agreement of the Government on the one side, as well as the Company on the other. There was nothing in the course adopted by the Government to prevent the Company, if they were in earnest in their desire to carry out the work, from tendering on the terms the Government proposed. He believed in the power of the gentlemen in question to carry out the work, and he trusted that they would not consider themselves so much aggrieved by the lution the Government took in the cnatter as to refuse to tender for the conitruction of the line : he felt perfectly certain that if they should tender, and it their proposals were anything like as favourable in the view of the Governnent as the offers of any other persons alight be, the preference would, he relieved, be given to them.

Mr GILLIES said that, in addressing imself to the subject before the Council" h was not his intention to go into detail a to the action of the Government with •).e gentlemen who had proposed to form oemselves into a Company last session. ■■l the whole the Provincial Solici-

•■<■■? had given a very fair statement of what had occurred at the interview during the time he had referred to. There was only one point in his statement that he wished to mention, namely, that interview in consequence and subjecb to the report of the Southern Trunk Railway. The position those gentlemen assumed on that occasion was not the position sought to be asked for by Mr Driver. They had then before them the report of the Committee, which was, that as soon as the Ordinance received the assent of His Excellency the Governor, the Government should treat with a Company for the construction of the line. He would accept one position with regard to that Company, and that was that they were a dummy company in dealing with this line. Another point had been put by the Provincial Solicitor with regard to the difference between the Company and the Government, namely, that of paying the expenses of these gentlemen. The fact that their expenses had been applied for, and that a sum had been asked to be named, showed that the consent of the Executive was only a general consent. The fact was that it was a loose agreement altogether, and in casea of loose agreements advantage was generally taken to extend or to control what was originally meant. There ought always to be a close definition, and then there was less danger of mistakes, misunderstandings, and disagreements. The hon. member for Waikari had remarked that they had a right to make deductions from what had transpired, but he thought that hon. member was thelast man to make such aremark, as touching the character of other persons. The subject before them was His Honour's Message No. 1, and he trusted , that hon. members would bear with him I in tracing ont that memo. The Government were to be committed to all expenses contracted by the Company. The agreement entered into was that any failure j on the part of the Government- should be charged on the Government as to expenses, if the failure were on the part of the Company the expenses fell on them. He had before him this in view, that if there were any profit they got it, if any loss they sustained it. The memo, said that the Government should make up their mind as to terms, such terms to be published, and the Executive agreed to that. Another proposition was that the terms! should be submitted to the parties them- ! selves. The Executive adopted the proposition that the conditions should be , advertised in New Zealand, Victoria, Tlfew South Wales, &c. It had been said iiat the Executive had caused deiy in the construction of the -orks, and the Superintendent said that i 1 ad his views been carried out six months :J/p the works would have been in pro•ress. This he said on the 4th November, ■id yet he found that on the 11th Sep. •mber, which wa3 not anything like six I unths previous, the Superintendent ■d said that they should abandon the plan and go in for the narrow ,-.ugeand light rails. He found it imvidble to reconcile the two statements. On

le 11th September, when ifc was resolved /aa,t Mr Paterson should reduce the plans -o meet his estimate of-L375,000, Mr Brunton. C.E., was mentioned ; and although the Executive knew nothing of him, they, in order to meet the Superintendent's views, agreed that he should be consulted, and he left it to hon. members to say whether they should rely on Branton's report, or on Paterson's. The former said that the line could not be executed for L 400,000. and that he should advise an alteration of lie, gradients, even at an additional outlay, that the tunnelling should be increased by 12 chains, and that the rails should be 601bs. per yard, instead of4olbs., on which Paterson's estimate was based. He failed to see how, in any one point, any saving could be effected by Brunton's plan, and yet his estimate only amounted to L 355,000. The matter must have been gone into very hastily, and could not be relied on. The Executive had reduced the time for the tenders from four months to three, and whether that showed a desire on their pavt to delay, he would leave hon. members to judge. In October, the Superintendent proposed several resolutions, ons of which provided that the sum should not be more than L 350,000. Tliis was founded on Brunton's report, exclusive of land and compensation, and it therefore could not be L 350,000. If any person were anxious that the work should not go on, it must have been the Superintendent. The Executive took up no such position, but were prepared to go to the extent of L 400,000. They brought up their estimate from an Engineer who had staked his reputation on his and it therefore appeared that the Executive were more anxions to see the work going on than His Honour was. The loose way of doing business, »y wKxch contractors were enabled to get 8 per cent, for five years, was open°to great objection, as they could borrow money at 6 per cant., and get 8 per cent. for it without using it for railway purposes, as they could do the work in two years. The delay between the 21st of October and the 6th of November took place from want or the Superintendent's signature. They might count upon a oareful perusal of tho papers whenever

delay was chargeable on the Executive, j as they were determined to have any tenders sent in, properly and safely entered into. He would never consent to enter on any work where he thought the expenses were likely to be greatly over those anticipated. Mr FBASER spoke briefly to the question. Mr M'INDOS said it would take very much more logic than had been used to make the arguments advanced in support of the motion hold water. He thought the question at issue was not the proposed Company, or agreement, but whether the line would be constructed if interest were paid on less capital than L 400,000. He was of opinion that a company would be in a better position to pay a large dividend, if the work 3 were constructed with a smaller amount of capital. In the one case 18 or 20 per cent dividend would be realised. If the House passed the resolution, it would be guilty of passing an indirect vote of censure on the Government, because if they approved of tenders being called for in one case, they approved of tenders being called for in the case of the Port Chalmers Railway. He looked upon the course adopted by the Government in this matter as even more inconsistent than their conduct in regard to the Hundreds Regulation Act. He was of opinion that the Government would not turn the sod of j any railway while the present Superintendent remained in office—in fact, that, was the nutshell infco which the whole matter might be reduced. The Government ho believed, had no serious intention of going on with the railway. In fact, he had been told by the Provincial Treasurer that he was not sure but that an Ordinance would have to be brought down embodying conditions which would have to be imposed on the contractor, but he was doubtful whether the contractor would accept them. The feeling of the country was that the construction of these railways should be gone on with at once ; they did not care where or how the money was got, so long as the amount expended did not exceed the sum agreed to be paid for the. construction of 'he lines.

Mr TURNBTJLL was of opinion that a great deal had been said which was not pertinent to the question at issue. The Company which had been formed to carryout the Clutha Hallway had been very much blamed and abused ; but he must say that it was no' dummy company ; and at the time they treated with the Government they had a most sincere intention to carry on the work. They were perfectly satisfied that they could command the capital necessary to enable them to carry it out. One of the leading things in his own mind which induced him to take part in the undertaking was that it would be a great advantage to the province, and he incurred Home risk, and took a considerable amount of trouble, to have the Kail way Ordinances put into operation. He was not disposed to qiiarrel with the Government about that matter. That Company and the agreement was not the question at issue; it wasa question of persons, whether the Superintendent's views as to the carrying out of the work, or those of the Government on the subject were right. The question was simply between the Government and the Superintendent. He said emphatically, that the work would never be done in the way the Government intended. No contractor in the Southern seas would tender under such conditions. The work was one of great magnitude, and the contractor had not only to provide the capital, but find labour. He would not tender blindfoldly for the work : he would first ascertain the ! nature of the land, examine the gradients, &c. In doing this, an expense of nearly L2OOO would be incurred. Besides this, he would have to deposit Llo,ooo in the Provincial Treasury, on which he would get 5 per cent. That was a good idea of the Treasurer's, because if there were three tenders, the money would come in very handy. He felbsure that this of itself would prove an insuperable barrier ; in reality, he did not see how they were to get to the work unless the Government paid the cost of the preliminary arrangements. He thought the view taken by the Superintendent was the proper one. He would conclude by saying, if the Government succeeded in getting the work carried out, he would be glad to see it done. He considered these railways would bethe_means of infusing new life into the province. If these railways were not entered upon, the province would keepin the background, while the other provinces in the colony would advance. . Mr REID agreed with many of the remarks made by the last speaker, who had spoken in a calm and deliberate manner. IHe agreed with him that if these works I were undertaken at the present time, it would have the effect of increasing the population, and would do a great deal of good to the province. The-lion, member's reference to the proposed deposit of LIO,OOO, did not agree with his assurance to give the Government his assistance in having the work carried out. The Government intended to return the deposits when a tender was accepted, but would retain that of the successful tenderer, asseeurity for the work being proceeded with. He had been charged with inconsistency, inhavingatone time opposed railways, and with now supporting . them. But he now thought the opportunities for carrying on railways were much better than they wore before. But he was not going to be a party to railways being carried on as a speculation. He did not intend to refer to the whole of the remarks made in the course of the discussion. The question had, on the whole, been fairly put by the Provincial Solicitor. There was ju3t one point to which he would refer, and it was this. I it was said by the hon. member for Waikari, and the Provincial Solicitor, that an agreement wa3 cordially arrived at at the meeting of the Executive, which the Inn gentleman attended. What was resolved was, that the Solicitor, the hon. member, and himself, should meet together, and prepare a general basis of agreement, which was to be submitted to the Executive for its consideration. The hon. member afterwards got a Company formed, but the agreement was never signed. Mr DUNCAN also entered into an explanation regarding the subject under discussion, intimating that the first time he heard of the arrangement was when the agreement was brought before the Executive, and then it was objected to on the ground of its being one-sided. He then, at some length, defended the action taken by the Government in the matter, and explained that the Solicitor was asked whether he was acting for the Government or the Company. The answer was that he was acting for both sides, and he (Mr Duncan) then said that the Government would be wise if they got some one to advise them.—(Hear, hear.) He next referred to the steps taken by the Government, in order to show that they had no desire to delay, but every wish to facilitate, the carrying out the work of railway construction.

Mr MILL Alt remarked that when he entered the House he had no intention of addressing himself to the matter now before the House, having an impression

that the question at issue was a financial misunderstanding between the embryo Company and the Government; but inasmuch as that a member of the Government, from his place upon the Treasury benches, had, aa he understood, cast some reflections upon the reliability of the estimates of the late Engineer, he thought ifc his duty towards the deceased gentleman to endorse his views —a statement, so far as he had a knowledge of the matter, thoroughly agreeing with Mr Paterson'3 estimate of L 7283 per mile for 51 miles, Dunedin to Balclutha, a total of L 371,688. It would, he said, be remembered by the honourable members of the House that in his (Mr Millar's) report upon the Porfc Chalmers and Dunedin line, he had attached a schedule of lines of railway in various parts of the world, showing the cost per mile on the 4ft B|in gauge ; all of which averaged about hi 3 own or Mr Pafcerson's estimate of say L7OOO per mile. Although lin the sister colony of Victoria the follies perpetrated in reproducing the expensive lineß of the mother country, had cost that colony some L 36,000 per mile, yet it had been shown in the evidence given before a Parliamentary Select Committee, who had lately taken evidence from various engineers, that lines quite ample to meet all traffic requirements could be now constructed upon the light railway principle for L6OOO per mile. It would also be found that he (Mr Millar) quoted evidence of the Engineer in-Chief of the Victoria Railways (Mr Higinbotham), in regard to the projected Gipp3 Land line, that the monstrously extravagant figure of L 36,000 per mile would now be reduced to L 6,200 per mile, exclusive of rolling stock; and he advised the Government not to spend more than the amount per mile recommended by the late Mr Paterson (L 7,288), on the Balclutha line ; an amount in which both himself and Mr Pafcerson agreed. Touching railway matters generally, the present session of Parliament was called to consider three important questions, the land, or Otago Hundreds Regulation Act,: the annexation of Southland; and, the Southern Trunk Railway ; the latter being a mattfr with which he wa3 perfectly conversant, he professionally as a matter of course, took increased interest in tha question. He said that about the time that the Superintendent issued the proclamation for the assembling of the present Parliament, he had seen the hermaphrodite conditions and provisions of agreement—half legal, half engineerin::—for Jthe Southern Trunk Line. Thef c conditions he considered behind the age for colonial light railway construction, so much so that he had made a series of notes for the purpose of placing a few practical errors of judgment, which appeared therein, before the House, shewing that a " knowing " contractor could drive a navvy's wheel-barrow through these conditions, based upon simple Parliamentary approximate sketches. However, he (Mr Millar), owing to the deplorable, and ever to be regretted accidents which had taken place within these few days, depriving the profession and the colony of the services of two eminently rising men in the profession, namely, Messrs Balfour and Paterson— the latter the Provincial Railway Engineer—thought it incumbent upon him and due to the memory of the deceased gentleman, that as little allusion aa possible should be made at this time to his preliminary services, and lithographed plans for the Southern line. Jn this delicacy of heart-felt feeling of sympathy hehad no doubt the House would cordially agree. The hon. member concluded by reviewing Mr Brunton's strictures as given in his report, dated 6th October last. He.then continued—That judging from both Mr Paterson and Mr Brunton's' reports, it was quite obvious that neither had made themselves acquainted with the important developments in railway construction which had taken place since the Imperial Parliament had, in the session of 1868, passed " The Regulation of Railways Act," delegating to the Board of Trade the power of granting licenses to construct, maintain, and work Light "Railways, which Act has superseded " The Railways Clauses Consolidation Act, 1845." The new system (Mr Millar explained) quite superseded the old school of engineering, under which the majority of the British railways had fbeen constructed, and if the system now known as the Light Railway system had been inaugurated at the commencement of railways thirty years ago, ie would have saved the British shareholders an amount of capital equalling half the national debt. Mr Brunton recommended the heaviest gradient to be limited to one in 60, instead of Mr Paterson's maximum, one in 50 ; and the rails to be 601bs instead of 40lbs per lineal yard. This difference of opinion appeared to him to have arisen from the fact that Mr Brunton had been for many years engaged upon the expensive Indian lines, where 721b and 851b rails were in common use, and quite necessary for the ponderous engines used, weighing something like 12 tons upon each wheel, instead of being distributed over each in a proportion of about three. These engines' no doubt were then necessary to overcome ordinary gradients upon a zig-zag line like the one ascending the Ghaut ranges from Bombay to Poonah; whereas for the comparatively level line of New Zealand, lons light rails, light rolling-stock and light goods traffic, light engine, and permanent way, were ample to meet all requirements.

Mr HUTOH'ESON said one lion, member had told the House that evening that he was not pecuniarily interested in the matter; but lie (.vlr Hutcheson) was prepared to show, from a caletilation be had made, that the hon. member, if, when the agreement was made, he had not a direct and immediate interest in the work, he certainly had a very large prospective one, inasmuch as the interest on the principal would amount to very nearly the entire cost of the work, and would be divided merely amongst seven gentlemen. Mr THOMSON replied, and J The House divided on his motion with the following result—'Ayes, 13 ; Noes, 2. The motion was therefore carried. The following is the division list: Ayes— Barr, Brown, Burns, C!ark, Gillies, Green, Henderson, Hutoheson, Mollison, Murray, Reid, J. Shand, Thomson. Noes— MTndoe, Seaton. BUSINESS LICENSES. Mr BROWN moved—"That an address be presented to His Honour the Superintendent, requesting him to cause to be laid on the table all correspondence between the Government and Mr Warden Wood, having reference to the necessity of business people at Roxburgh, whose places of business are on the main street, being compelled to take out Business Licenses." Mr REID rep'ied that he believed some people were summoned and fined in the mitigated penalty of Is. The Warden, however, had since recommended that these people should not be required to take out licenses in future. WARDEN FOB MOTTNT BESTGER. Mr BROWN mored, " That the ar-

rangement made for the periodical visit of once a month by the Warden to the Mount Benger district is totally inadequate to the requirements of the place ; and, in the opinion of this Council, it is desirable that the present Receiver of Revenue at Roxburgh should be appointed a Warden for the Mount Beneer district." 8

Mr REID was not prepared to say that it would be desirable to appoint a Warden for the Mount Benger district. If, however, no additional expense would be incurred, and if the carrying into effect of the proposition would be a convenience to the residents, of course, it would be the duty of the Government to see that the officer was appointed, but he was doublful whether the appointment could be made without incurring additional expense. He would not like, at the present time, to give a definite reply to the motion, and he trusted that it would not be adopted; but if, on enquiry, it was found necessary to carry out the recommendation contained therein, and that ©nly a trifling additional expense would be necessary, it was possible that the matter would be taken in hand. He trusted the hon member would' withdraw the motion. Mr BROWN consented to withdraw the motion, on the assurance that the Government would enquire into the matter. THE ISLAND BLOCK. Mr BROWN" moved " That a Commission be appointed to enquire into all matters connected with the-Island Block, with power to call for all correspondence, reports, &c, and to take evidence in reference to same, and report thereon." Mr REID replied that if it was to be an unpaid commission the Government had no objection. If there was any blame, it attached to the Government, and they did not desire to be relieved from any responsibility in the matter. He did not know that much good Avould result from the adoption of the motion, but the Government had no objection to comply with the request therein contained. Mr BROWN explained that he had been induced to table the motion, mainly because the correspondence laid upon the tahle was not available to the public. The motion was carried. SOUTH CLUTHA AND GLENOMARU DISTRICTS. . Mr THOMSON moved, " That in reference to the petition from certain settlors in South Clutha and Glenomaru districts, the Government be requested to make proper enquiries before taking any steps to alienate from the Crown block road lines for other roads in these districts."

Mr RSTD said the Government had no objection to the motion. He believed that the proper steps were taken before any alteration took place. Without reflecting in any way upon those who preceded him, he might say the difficulties in connection with this matter had been accumulating, and it was not an easy matter to deal with them. In every case the Government were bound to fulfil the agreements, and necessary enquiries would be made. The motion was carried. On the motion of Mr DRIVER, The House, at 2.15 a.m., adjourned until 2 p.m. next day. Thursday, 23rd December. The Speaker took the chair at 2 p.m., and read tha usual form of prayer. AN EXPLANATION". Mr REID explained that he had been requested by a gentleman, not a member of the House, to make an explanation in regard to a misinterpretation which had been placed upon his remarks when speaking on the question of the Emigration Agency, the day previous. He was under the impression that the remarks attributed to him (Mr Reid) applied to himself. The words complained of, and which he did not use, were that he (Mr Reid) " explained that the appointments were made wi hout the knowledge of the Executive, and he did not think they were binding on the province." What he did say was that the present Government could not be blamed for the appointment of Mr Robertson, inasmuch as it took place at a time prior to the Government coming into office; but that with reference to the appointment of Mr M'Aslan, the letter had been written without the knowledge or consent of the Executive, and that as soon as they were aware of the letter they remonstrated against it. Mr BURNS explained that the words Port Chalmers had been inserted in a speech which he made the previous day. for the words Port Nicholson. THISTLE PREVENTION ORDINANCE. Mr HUTOHESON asked the Secretary for Land and Works whether the Government intended to take any steps with a view to repeal the Thistle Prevention Ordinance, 1862? Mr REID was understood to say that if it was found that advantage would result from the repeal of the Ordinance, steps to effect the object in view would be taken. LAND CERTIFICATES. Mr M'INDOE asked the Government : " If a clause had been affixed to the Land Certificates issued to Volunteers, requiring that the land to which they were entitled must be taken up within three months from date of issue ; if so, on what authority had thia been done ? Mr REID said a clause had been affixed to the land orders requiring Volunteers to take up land as mentioned, but that there was no particular authority for it. In reply to further remarks made by Mr Reid on the same point, Mr M'INDOE said he was' glad to find that the Government agreed with himself upon this question. He was aware that land scrip had been floating about, and that land-jobbers were buying it up. The original intention in regard to the certificates was to encourage Volunteers to make this place a permanent home, not merely to raise money. He should like the Government to put a stop to the practise he had mentioned. Mr M'INDOE asked the Government: "If the land scrip issued to Volunteers was negotiable or transferable to any 'party disposed to purchase 1" Mr REID replied in the negative. BLACKS. Mr BROWN asked the Secretary for Land and Works " What steps had been taken relative to throwing opeii a block of land, for agricultural purposes, in the neighbourhood of Blacks, in accordance with the recommendation of Mr J. L. Gillies in the report of his tour through the Goldfields ?" Mr GiLlilES explained that arrangements had been entered into for a block of land at Blacks. MR HOWLISON. Mr DRIVER asked the Government a question with respect to Mr Robert Rowlison, formerly in the Government service. That gentleman did not complain of his discharge but that he was not re-engaged when the office which he occupied for ten years was filled up. Mr REID replied that the Government had never refused to give the preference, when an opportunity offered, to officers

previously engaged in the Government I service. With regard to Mr Howlison, however, he was afraid that some misapprehension existed. There had been no appointment made to the office which that gentleman filled in the service. THE OFFICE OF TREASURER. Mr GILLIES desired to make some explanation with regard to the retirement from office of the Provincial Treasurer. To the present time that gentleman had riot sent in his resignation. He believed, however, that he had intimated during the day that it was his intention to resign his position as Treasurer, because he expected to leave the province shortly. An Host. Member : Has he gone ? Mr GILLIES was not aware that Mr M'Lean had left Otago, or even Dunedin. He (Mr Gillies) was merely about to state matters as the members of the Executive found them. It was due to the Council that, upon receiving such aa intimation, the remaining members of the Executive should come to some understanding as to j how they intended to carry on the governj ment of the country, and how the position of Provincial Treasurer should be filled up. The members of the Executive always considered it to be due to the members of that House that any arrangement contemplated by the Executive should be made known to hon. members before the prorogation. In considering the question of filling the anticipated vacancy, the members of the Executive felt that they were almost confined to one course; they reviewed ! the whole circumstances of the position in which they were placed at the present time : and considered the confidence that had been manifested in them by a majority of the Council was in itself sufficient to justify the Executive in filling the vacancy. But they also considered they were tied down to this necessity: to show not only to the Council, but to the country, that they felt every confidence in the course which they had pursued, and the .position they had taken up in regard to matters they had dealt with. They would not shrink from any responsibility in connection witiithe course of action they had pursued. The strong expressions used by the opponents of the Executive regarding xhe action they took in respect to the Otaeo Hundreds Regulation Bill; the gloomy picture laid before them by some hon. members, and tho assertions made by others that already the Executive had reached nearly the limit of their overdraft to which they were entitled to go at the Bank, could only be met by filling up the position from amongat the remaining members of the Executive. He had therefore to intimate that the arrangement made was thar, he should himself take the position of Provincial Treasurer. —(Applause and laughter). He was aware that that statement would give the opponents of the Executive an opportunity of making me of it to indulge in those _ personalities which had been so conspicuous in their addresses to that House. But he could assure them that such personalities would only recoil on their own heads. He thought that in talcing the position of Provincial Treasurer he should have the support, not only of a majority of the members of that House, but also of a very large majority of the public of the province of Otago. It might be stated, and stated truthfully, that he, at one time, said he would not take up such a position in connection with the present Superintendent. He remembered that statement, and did not shrink from it.-* To those to whom he made it he intended to appeal, and he was prepared to remain by the" verdict they might give on the course of conduct which he pursued.

MrM'INDOE : Mr Speaker, I rise to a point of order. The hon member made that statement to myself in private, does he intend to appeal to me I— (Laughter.) Mr GILLIES said circumstances had arisen of a most extraordinary character which demanded that any man placed in the position of a representative of an influential community should not shrink from coming forward, notwithstanding that the basest imputations might be cast upon his character by those who, from the course of conduct which they had pursued, gave very great reason for such imputations to be made regarding themselves. He, however, would not direct any personal remarks against their opponents.

Mr M'INDOE : You are quite right. Mr GILLtES desired to make a few remarks in respect to statements deliberately and strongly made during the course of debate, as to the present financial position of the province, and more especially as affecting their position in connection with the banks. They had been told, he repeated, that they had very nearly reached the utmost limit of the overdraft ; in reply, he was happy to be able to inform the House that the statement was, like a great many other statements which had been made, entirely without foundation.—(Applause.) At the present time, instead of having reached, or even nearly reached, the utmost limit of the overdraft, there was scarcely any overdraft at all. Nay, more ; had they the customs revenue for November, which had not yet been p:ud, there would be a sum to their credit. —(Applause.) The actual overdraft at the present time did not amount to LIOOO. He might also state that during the next thirty days thay expected to have an income of something like LIB,OOO, which would be quite sufficient to carry on those works that were being proceeded with, and he had no doubt that, by care and judicious management, notwithstanding the reductions rhat were taking place and that were likely io continue for some time, in connection with the land sales, ihey would be able to carry the Province through until an alteration in the Hundreds Regulation Act could be effected. They not o.nly had the p\iblic, but also the private assurance of the Superintendent that he would heartily co-operate with them in endeavouring to effect the alterations which had been recommended by the House; and he (Mr Gillies) had no doubt that the fears which were expressed with regard to these alterations would, when the Assembly again met, be something like the doubts, fears, and difficulties brought before them last session, when the amended Ordinance »with reference to the Southern Trunk Railway was under consideration. At that time there were as mauy gloomy prospects held out as had been pictured during the present session. None, however, of those difficulties arose; things had gone on more smoothly, and perhaps with less difficulty, than during any previous portion of a provincial financial year. There had been no difficulty in carrying out the works considered to be absolutely necessary. He would like to make a few remarks in regard to the Supplementary Estimetes, but perhaps it would be advisable to delay making any explanations upon the several items until the House discussed them. He moved that the House go into Committee of Supply. His Honour's Messages, Nos. 6 a»d 7, (Supplementary Estimates) were con-i eidered and passed.

BALANCE SHEET. The Balance Sheet of the Province to Ist October, 1869, was laid on the table. HONORARIUM. Mr J. SHAKD moved to the effect that "this House resolves that in all cases, purposes of economy and retrenchment should emanate from members themselves, and that it is, due to them to set the example : Therefore, as there was no sum placed on the Estimates last session, this House resolves that there shall be no Honorarium paid this session," After some discussion, Mr REID moved as an amendment t( That the resolution of last session respecting the Honorarium, as it appears on page 15 of the Votes and Proceedings, be adopted as the resolution of this session ; that no claim made under this resolution shall be considered binding unless made within one month after the termination of the present session." The House divided with the following result:—Ayes, 17 ; Noes, 3. The amendment was therefore carried. The following is the division list :—Ayes : Messrs Ashcroft, Barr, Brown, Burns, Clark, Duncan, France, Green, Henderson, Hutcheson, M'Dermid, M'lndoe, Mosley, Murray, Reid, Seatoa, G. Shand, and TayJer. Noes : Messrs Driver, Main, and J. Shand. WATER RACES AND RESERVOIRS. The following motion, by Mr REID, appeared on the Order Paper :—" Ist. That, with a view to develope the auriferous resources of the province, and in order to ensure a supply of water for mining purposes at all seasons and upon reasonable terms^ this Council is of opinion that it is desirable to encourage the construction of water races and reservoirs on the goldfields, by means of a guarantee on the capital invested on such undertakings. 2nd. That His Honour the Superintendent be requested to introduce a Bill at the first session of the General Assembly, empowering the Provincial Government to guarantee interest at a rate not exceeding eight per cent, per annum on any sum ■or sums which may be expended on the construction of reservoirs and water races in the various goldfields throughout the province : Provided such works shall be undertaken under agreement with, and completed to the satisfaction of, the Provincial Executive, and that the Government shall have power to fix from time to time the scale of charges for the supply of water—the amount on which interest to be guaranteed as aforesaid not to exceed the sum ofL100,000."

Ultimately, Mr R.EID moved, "That the following words be added after the word ' province' in the second part of the motion ; c and also provided that an additional sum of three per cent, on the amount expended be set aside as a fund, for the purpose of purchasing the works at a fair valuation, so soob as a sufficient • fund is ■ accumulated for that purpose.'" ~ '1 he motion, as amended, was carried. UNAUTHORISED EXPENDITURE. The following motion standing in the name of the Provincial Treasurer was moved by Mr GILLIES :—" That an address be presented to His Honour the Superintendent, requesting him to forward to the Council a recommendation to grant a sura of money sufficient to meet the unauthorised expenditure referred to in the letter from the Provincial Auditor laid on the table by Mr Speaker on the loth December." The motion was carried. SLT/DGB v CHANNELS. Mr MAIN moved- " That the vote of L 2350, for sludge channels at Naseby and elsewhere, passed during the last session of the Provincial Council, was voted without any condition as to the inhabitants contributing LI for every L 2 granted by the Government, and that in the opinion of this Council such work should be executed without any such conditions annexed." After debate the motion was withdrawn. LAKE WAKATTP AND MARTIN'S BAY. Mr ASHCROFT moved: "That an Address be presented to His Honour the Superintendent, requesting him to place on the Estimates for next session a sum of LIOOO. for the purpose of opening up a practicable communication between the head of Lake Wakatip and Martin's Bay." He said it was very desirable that this road should be opened up during the. present season, if possible, as it would be almost impossible for anything to be done to it in the winter. He would not mind if they only spent L2OO on it this season. It was a work of some importance, and he hoped that it would not be opposed. Mr REID wished the hon. member would hold his motion over until next session. The Government were almost bound to do something towards it, and probably before that time, when it came before them, it was possible that arrangements would be made. Mr ASHCROFT consented, and the motion was therefore allowed to stand over until next session. MR JAMES RErD. Mr ASHCROFr moved—"That the Petition of James Reid be referred to the Government, in accordance with the Interim Report No. 3 from the Select Committee on Private Petitions." Carried. APPROPRIATION ORDINANCE. Mr GILLIES laid on the table the Appropriation Ordinance for 1869 and 1870, No. 2. It passed through all its stages. At five minutes past five, His Honour the Superintendent entered the House, and prorogued the Council.