THE GENERAL ASSEMBLE.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 617, 9 December 1863, Page 9 (Supplement)

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLE.

(F&OM OVU SI'iCIAL ivEPOK'.EiI.)

HOUSE OF REPBESFNTATIVES.

— . THURSDAY. NOVEMB:-:K ; StH . (Continued.) ■ tJ^%.,»HEW ZEAI.A.ND SE TI.EMBSTj BIT.I/. FFOrX r moved the second na'Hnsr if. a Bill for establishment of Sc-ttltmei ts for (JaWiisatibn, in the Northern Island of Ntw Z<i: lan I -He said— In movinp the second ■ eaiinjr of this Mill, 1 may take occasiou to obsei ye, that it is the great <]v siiou- the keystone of Che policy of the present Government, The primary feature of its policy is the suppressing of I the existing rebellion. That is the first a id principal thing we have to do;. hik! until it is done, I appr- - bend that little else can be done to promote ilie prosperity of the, Noi'tliera ?&l»nl. I intimated on a previous occasion, that the 'basis of the Government! Eoheme was the introduction of so Fjrong a ~'po- | pulation into the disturbed districts of the %&>lony, that for the future the Natives might be'deterred' from all hope of successful resistance tothe | establishment of law in th 3 Northern Island, i In j order to establish the population which the Govern- : ment intends to uitio luce it is absolutely essential j • that it should have the iai.cl on which to establish '; them. It would be very €a?y, no doubt, for itjbe Government to enlist considerable bodies of meg !in Australia, at the Ooajro diggings, and in the oilier Colonies, for temporary service, in the same manner as has been done for the lMenco Force. But that ■would be of little value ; it would be simply a temporary measure ; and probab'y many of the rneti^ as their seryic&s wcTertispensed w'th. would leave this Island, if not the Ckjlony, and it, is not un ikely ti>at * at no remote period we should find ourselves in cir- s , cumptances similar to those before the introduction of ' the fdfee; What is required is a large population,-1 ipractieally oulaumbering that of the Natives in those district* where rebellion exists, or may ex'wt, to be permanently settled, w.\th ownership of the land, so that they may not only have an interest, but the ability, to defend their homes from future agrression ; and to effect ttiis, the tiovcriiment looks to the lands of those triVes who have been in rebellion. There is no injustice in taking the lands of such tribes— not by way < 1" punfebment, or of reducing the tribes from the position they now h-.jld, but simply as a substantial guarantee for the future peace ami c nsolidatipn'of , the colony. This Bill provides for that objset.' One very material.question as to the practical workingKcf. the mea-'ure is, whether there is likely to be at the ; end of the war, a sufficient quantity of laud for the large number of Europeans to be introduced, without* dispossessing.thfi^iatnes and so driving them to the hills and extinguishing the race, iam glad to say that on examining a carefully piv pare 1 approximate ieturn of the acreage which is included in ihosc ci3tricts where rebellion exists—and in which aloDe at present, the Government has any intention of extended operations--there appears to b3 at least 4,000,000 acres of land aviilaOJe for the purpose. '• In the, Upper Waikato, there are 2,000,000 acres;;.in the Lower Waikato, below the junction of the. two ~ rivers, 550,000/} the 'Ihames and Piako, 710,000(; ■> ■ Taranaki, north of the town. 600,000/ i. and south pfthe town to the Waitara, 650,000. In the whole of these districts, the natives are nrw, 'practically, in rebellion. The amount of land, therefore, seems to he ample for the objict in view—that of estabh'sl.inir a population of from 15jO00 to 30,000 souls, in adJi- ,. tion to the body partially enrolled, aud now bdn-r enrolled, in this Province. ' The .Government has thought it a preferable ccurse,-- -' that, instead of declaring, by enactment^ that ■ any particular district should Kbe* confiscated, the House should simply give the Ex-' .. ecutive the power, from time to.tim>, to take those districts accord^?. to,,the exypne.es of the case—and .. that, in terms of the Act, the power should be made general over those disfviels, excepting only those portions which have passed into individual property, either of "natives or Europeans, under the. two i species of title at present known—tha- of a certificate of ownership under the Act .of last .session, or a Crown "Glrant. But the Government is far from proposing, as is^'tliouglit by some, to-^take "without any crmpensation, the Idnd of any "natives whatever, unless of those who have been in actual rebellion; so that it, in any district, it should appear that any s;< tion of the vnativis have not been in rebellion it will be open for them to receive compensation as awarded by the Court to be constituted und.r the.Act. S>, asrain, if in any other parts than those in which rebellion has existed, it should hereaft become essential fjr the . Government to take lands for the purposes' of the Act, compensation will be provided there, also ■;;an 1 there.will be^noiKstance ia which- the ;,(3-overntnei.itv ■will do other than would be done"by the B itishjG-:-'; vernment, if it wanted land, say for .a rail way ojfcany" other public purpose, except where the^^tiy£S,; have, beep in.actual-rebellionr-The" classes"or-'pereoriisn -t entitled will be those enumerated in the 4th clause of the Act:— . . ' : '

" (1.) Who shall have b*en enJErfiged in levying or making war, or carrying arms again^t^er Majesty the Queen, or'her Majesty's forces in New Zea'and, or (2) who shall "have adhered to, aided, assist°d or comforted any such persons as aforfsiid, or (3) who shall have counselled, ar.visjd, induced, enticed, persuaded, or conspired with any other person to make or levy war again>t Mfijasty, or io carry arras against 'Mejesty^s forces in New Zealand, or to oinwithbr aßflst any such p rsons as are before mentioned in sub-sections (1) and 12} or (4) wlm in furtherance or in execution of the designs of any such persons as aforesail, shall hive been either as prihei- . .jial or--acce«s-ry-e)neerne~l-in-any-outrqfte against person or piopsrty."'- s -

,Then, to establish the rights of claimantsto comotnsation, and Iha amounts to be paid, the ordinary machinery of o,ourt* of investigation, and adjudication is provided by the Act. Thj only provision of the Act which remains to be noticed is, t hat the moneys received fro n the sale of surplus land 3,. after .locating the proposed settlers, is to bs applied^|.;|e;payraent of the cist of suppressing, the insur'j;ee;iqn.,; The clau«e. as it. stoid, has been reconsiderM^land in )»mmittee I shall be prepared to move^'some alteration.-.: The Government has tlijjuyjif^ upon

further consideration, that it would beHnjiuiicious too specifically to determine the appropriation of the proceeds cif the sale of lands referred to—that it was better to use general terms; and such: will be the eflect of the alteration which I shall hereafter propose. ~ -I- belißV%- > that-.th£retJvill lie ve*y little difference of opinion in the House as fp'thfl"'general principle of the measu c A* to the details, there may be much difference, particularly, perhans as to^ the ; constitution of the proposed-cou-ts of adjudicaton1; and that will be properly discussed in 'com/mittee. ' . ■ ~": .. ; 3:;.•' ■•, ■.' 'i:/:~

Mr GILIJE 5 seconded the,motion. '; : . ..' • Mr FTIZGrERALD: I am perfectly unprepared to address the House but I cannot allow: the second ] reading of 'his Bill to pas« in Mlpncc, I feel thnt ; no such Bill ought to have been laid : before the lTonsei| until we have ha:l am Die and full' opportunity of djs-.fj cussing the.policy of the late Ministers • -of discris'sfne''' . -what has taken place since the.Hous? broke up lasty^ a- :J in order that by the consideration of flint policy an.li those events, we might mik* up our minds as to 1.0.v far the Government itself has been the cause of the :evils under wh'c'j t'lis^lony row lies ; because it■is perfectly obvious that .our judgment, as to the • necessity of so preat and sweeping* a measure as that now presented to the House, most mainly depend' 1 upon the view which we may take of the.attitude of the^nativeß towards the Government, and how far: that attitude has been occasioned by the action of; the Government. However we rniy think this^Bill necessary at the present crisis of the polony, let1 us not blind oarselves to . what the meaning of this Bill is, and what its possible effect may be. This Bill is a repeal upon the face of it, of every- engagement,- of every land whatsoever, which has b"en made by the British Crown with the xKatives from the first, day wh n this was a colony of the Crown. Nay, so deeply do I feel this to be the case, that my great reliance U placed upon the last clause of the Bill—that this Act shall not come into operation until it has been assented to by fc-'er Majesty in Council. I am as satisfied as I ever was of any future event, t'lat Her Majesty will never be advised to give her assent to this measure. This Bill professes to give absolute arid arbitrary power to the Government of the colony to enter upon all .Native lands whatsoever in this colony, whether/

they beJong to Natives who have raised their arms against Her Majesty, or whether they belong to men who have fought, war after war, on our si<ie. It gives power to the Governor, of this colony, advised as he may bs by any Ministry eitting on that bench, to violate every engagement which, has ever been ma-le with those .Natives, and to confiscate their lands upon any imaginary or conceivable wroEg. This, Sir, is proposed to be done; this gieat—what I call this enormous crime, is proppsed to be perpetrated against a race to whom we have refused the right of representation in this House; who, at this moment, are totally anrl absolutely in ignorance that we are abont to make this great invasion upon their privileges; and who are unable to appear at our bar to plead their causp. I know that it has sometimes been said that the policy which has been advocated by one party in this country, has been a policy dictated solely by the desire to acquire lands for the settlers. I know how honorable members, and persons throughout the country, who have been accused of that idea, have rejected it with the most indignant language, and have spoken as "if we had accused them of some crime of which they were incapable. \yell, what place will this Bill hold when it goes'hprae ? What interpretation

will be given to it by those who aro criticising our nets in England ? Why, it will confirm ever./ charge that h ■■sheen made against the settlers, of a-desire to 'acquire -laui&froin the Natives. It'will goHyjme that 'we have proposed one entire and enormous confiscation fofc/tlie whole laids of the Natives—at all events, that^e,; have authorised the Government to commit'that confiscation;, that we bavsgebarredou:- ---■ elves from this time henceforth, of thejjio'vver of,prevpntina: any act of wiongdone by the Governor"jjtlut we lnve removed, from him the' con trol of the':law, and of those ancient treaties^witli the Natives which the Crown has entered into; that we have opened ihe door to: any amount of iirbi trary wrong which roay be committed upon that raca. Tbut, I .say, unquestionably, is the language which will be held with reference to this Act. by tho>e who are criticising our conduct, in England. This Act proposes that it shall he lawful for the Governor at any time fo declare^ any lauds, of the TV?tive race "wlisitsbwr to be Crown Land?. Apart from Vie question of'confiscation, I object to this u^on t!iese two grounds'. I obj ct, first, upon the grouasi tha*. it is contrary to theHreaty of Waitangi, which hfis distinctly givrranteed and pledged tLe faith of. the Crown. tliaf-th* lands of the shall not, be taken from them, except by the'ordinary process of law- -that is, taken within the meaning of the treaty. A'gain'j I ob^ect^^VeSause I conceive jbhe provision to be in. dirpctopposition to that section of the CoTis-tt vitioii. A^cti which, dtbirs us trom m?king any law which is repugnant to the law of Eneland. There" is ;: some difficulty in interpreting' the meaning" of that, vagiie expression, "rppugnant to the Jaw ;" but this much 1 think we may,«assume - that it is repugnant; to the law of Enphnd to pass any general statute forjjthy acquisition of private estate. It has beenMhe universal: practice 'of the English -Parliament, never to pa^s any Act which shall bar t- at chiiracter ; anil that when it finds it necr-: <ary for a certain .purpose to pass an.Act of 'Parliame it to take private lands for public uses, it dops so by a i Act in eachfqase specifying the lands so fo.be tak j, and providing: thormst ample opportunity ?o? •'■e person proposed to be aggrieved, to c.on'.e •Wiv.-j Parliament, by counsel, and' to p'ead his caiu.e. If there is anything wh;ch can be: more repugnantto the law of England than anotEer, surely it is that; we shall take.property in the absence of tbo«e who are-the owners'.■ofilihat property. I believe it will-hot ;be 'contradicted' by lawyers, that an Act for a general taking of piiyave property for public purposes is repugnant to th? Spirit and the custom of the English law. Ido nctsfbr a moment deny the right of Parliament to takeandi■virlual estate, after pivinjr due notice to the "■'partiesconcerned, in order that they may be heard iiy.ppposition ; -. bufcc'-I do deny fie right of any Legislative Assembly to p~ss a general measure' t> take; private ••lands, because the Constitution Act prevents us^from pas^iny any law which shall be repugnant, to tile law of England. All this refers to the first part'of the measure. The sscond part is this: . it|~prop^sfis that ewe may pay", compensation tolv any Natives whose land we have taken, except those who .Inye" been in rebellion agiinst Her M"jesty.>:'j But what is the Qpurt hy_;wjiich this compensation is'tto be adjudicated? "Who'is to s=iy whether a inaH his committed the crime of high treason? /IWho is to say "whether "a man is to have his* pro:perty forfeited, if tin's crime has been'^com-mitted—or,-is supposed to have been committed, by an arbitrary power.? Who is to say whether p man is to have thai. Inst and miserable consolation^ as it will be thought in raany.cases, the right to compensation—such compensation as we may think mht to give—for the robbery committed upon hlmi Wby,fei£ a single '"jmclge, appointed by-iheiGovernor and holding office at Yhe Governor's pleasure ! A greater, a> ; more ;mons'trous farce by way of constructing a^cpurt of justice, I never heard of in my lite.! I can only express my intense amazement that any such aproposit'qn eouklhave proceeded from my honorable friend. "A j.uclge ! .'What has been one of the great grievances we have had here-—arid who has spoken oftener against it than my honorable friend (MrTax)? On-; of our sreat grievances was, that the.judges were removable J» the Governor, and held office only at-his pleasure. 'This, Sir, is-what we have comp'ained of.: And i.ow, to d^afwith this greatest of all crimes, as we think, that can iKissibly-be committed —to deal with an amount of property which never, perhaps; in a hundi'ed years, wouM come under the cognizmce of the Supreme Court—to deal with the whole question of peace snd war —to deal-with fa«ts of the most intricate character, and to determine on the utmost nicety of evidence—to decide'whether sepondary evidence shall- bs heard or not—we appoint adjudge who is not even required to be a lawyer—who may ; be anybody, Tom, Jack, or Harry, whom the^G'overnp'r maypick.up, to be appointed at his pleasure, and <to ba removeable by the Ministry of the day; and, o course, if this'Actis.^to be worth one rush and is to .lbi?Jcarri^.ijiio-effecCwlx^iß a strong;jind active par-' r> tisan-of'the"Gqvern'menf' 'an'd prepared'tocTrry;their I b bests into .full effect..-I know, siiv t'iat|it is of -litt'e u^e my a'dressing the House on this ;snfject. I know very well.: that the:. mind of this JHous3 is now made up. as to what it wili do in this mater. All I can do is; to enter, I .'.'fear.-, a solitary protest agf.in=t the pioeeedings which the Government are-.how adopting. I can do: this mpre. I can; express- my own great fear — I will not : say, any certain convictioa i— that the moment this . Bill get^ known to the Native race, it will dnve every single one of them in this Northern Island into • a state of hopeless rebellion. I, cannot help thinking that if tliere-beone firebrand which can possibly be thrown amongst the Native race, no humin ingenuity could have devised any one more terrible than that which holds out to Natives, be they friends or be they foes, the absolute certainty of having Ith'eir lands confisca'ed atf"any moment whsn the Government may think it:necessary to do so. I am sorry that my honorable friend (Mr-Fox) did not concede a postponement of the debate, ber-ause I am driven to speak at greVer'lengfch' pnd with less effect than I desire, upon this point, which is the turning point of our whole policy/in th:s prssion. :I have hid no time to review the facts of ths p-ist year, upon which alone such a Bill as this can be justified; and yet even in the absence of those papers w.hjch I'should.have wished to refer t'6, I am forced to take this opportunity of refeir'ng toisome of thoe past events, in the hone that it may throw some.littlejivht upnn any justification we may have for this extraordinary measure. I have rjead the papers which. the Government has lairli upon the table,- not pnlv with interest,: but with the greatest possible care. I have] rea 1 them for the purpose of: findine out, ifl* I possibly cmld, whether I were deceived in that'opinion which I ventured to give torthe House last [session that there wa^no possible pro-pectof what my hon!" friend (Mr-Fox) the other'day called " di|entang'- : ,ling"- this native difficulty, wiflnut going to'the last extremities 'of war. I hava formed an opinion —an opinion which I shall never change—that this war, though-lu'stifiable. was totally unnecessary. ' I.said 1 st session that there -wera but two possible consequences—either, on the one hand, that yrtu must attempt absolutely to win the confidence of r the\jatives; ov, on the other hand, that you must' be prepared, whatever you did. for an en-ly and final ;.sU'ug{r!eV .I..a«k. l-What baa.been doae si|nce the last, ses.ibn, to: win the confi ience of the^aatLVe race 1 When w,e broke up last session, what step w^s taken by the .Government towarJs healing up tins one gneat sore which was eating into the verylheart of ..the colony at J.hat time— I mean, this VYaitira question. So well/ as I remember, the late /Colonial Secretary-whom I do not nnw see present in his s^at—spent several weeks at Nelson. IftheneiwspupDr reports were true,' his .Excelloncy the Governor spent a. considerable timv at the Hawaii— I sw, for my'part, no notice, no mention whatsoever, of any : action taken by the Government in the Naiive di(Hou.Uy,v'hefore the oniinencenien!; of the; present year. I exclude the visit of the Grovernor to Otaiki, which occurred coineidently with the end of the last session. At the commencement of January,; \iis Excellency went down to the Waikato, and bji had an interview with the Native chiefs, which- if we are to believe the reports furnislud to us by the newspaper.*, and which ws must suppose to have b*en supplied to them by high authority, as they have been republi?hed in the Government papers, and thereby acquired the stamp of authority—to be an \accurate and faithful representation of what took place I have real with great care what took place between "his Excellency and the Natives on that occasion The next event Mndjis that the Governor w'entdown an armed force and occupied the Tatiiraimaka block, having, so far as I can understand it, taken no'one step ot any one kind whatsoever to bring-that matter to an amicable issue, in the manner promised hy himself and his predecessor. I am; here to say that the faith "of the Crown has been grossly violated—shamefully, yiolated-i-towarrls the Natives, in the manner, in which that Waitara question was dealt with. It'has bean promised over and over again ; and now, o\^er all the land, there are frequent complaints of the!>natives that it was promised that that question.of "thd Waitara should be investigated. But it has not been investigated., up to this hour, nor has one step been taken towards i»s investigation ; and, speaking incidentally on this subject, I say there is nobody .who denounces the conduct of the Government in' the abandonment of the Waitara, more than I do myself. His Excellency is pleased to state, in yaripus letters to the' Duke of Newcastle, that the natives themselves refused to have the Waitara title investigated, because what they wanted was an investigation into the^ whole cause of the war—to know who was'wrong W the matter.; aad- \is Excellency was not prepared td give them them anything further than a pure invesl tigation into title. They wanted to know who was wrong. Why should they not know it? What greater crime can be committed by any civilised, country, than that of waking up a war between race '

and race ? Some one was wrong-, assuredly ; and if tlint gro;t crimp Ins been commuted, why should we shirk an investigation ? Way, why should we refuse, if not 'guilty, to bring thos^ who have boon guiity of that crime, before a proper tribunal, aiid if convicted, to punish ? 'ibis is the first fine I have e.'er hea>\i it nivih ns an ex use, that whsn a man wa3 charged with great crimes, (hi? its°jf was .a r ason wbv noHnvestigition sliculd take place. Tne late * .Native Minister, retorts very unkiaJly, but most truly, iv one of the memoranda, to "his Excellency:-which have been published, when his Excellency complains that he was unabla to institute an investigation of this large character, that he never said that such an investigation should take pla.e. If at the en lof the last session the Ministers had had any desire to put an end to this Native difficulty—if they had not previously made-up their minds that war must .come, aad had not forgotten the declaration, " Woe hi to the man by whom'it cometh"-"-if they had had any desire to brine: this Native difficulty, to an eiiJ, and any 93gacitv aud intelligence to instruct them how nearly it could be brought to. an end — I say that they must have known it was impossible to touch that Tatarai-maka-'oiock, without, first of all, settling the Waitara question fairly. Why, Sir George Grey, after this obfu?catory policy— after bMng sent here to reverse the policy of his prede3e>sor, Governor. Browne ;- after having, I must siy. with an ing nuity more remnrkablc than admirable, '-insinuated, in those despatches which .will become matters of history, how his predecessor had violated, his duties in the course of his policy toward* the KativeV-when he was sent here to reverse that policvj arid held those strong, opnions- which- induced him to cast ihese slurs upon his.predecessor—is it not a little amazing to find him, after being two years in the country;--standing precisely and identically in the state iin which Governor Browne stood two years before? The moment the soldiers marched on that Tataraimaka>-hjock,- leaving other qiiestions.unse.ttled. that moment the Waitara war had commenced I will iiot say're-commenced, but the state of ai'iued neutrality which had existed->for. two years was simply pas?ed over. We stood simply in the same pontion to the native mc 3, .'in March 1863, with the troops occupying, the Tataraimaka^bloßky as we did on the : day: after the Jate victory, wheii Governor Browns cea ed his operations. What have wj been advocating—tlmse who agree w-ith me—for the last three^year-s 1 We who.have sad that the Waitara question w.ts Cas"reeinw with Sir George Grey in that) a great wrong-to the'^aatives are we how to approve, .or-itp Sfyjit onr mouths, when we see a succeeding-- -.''Governor-.;, adoptingl ' virtually and really the whole act of !;his predecessor, ,^nd carrying on iind prolonging a war Svhtch lie-had'him-self denounced as a great, crime ? That is the pnsitinn;in which the.Government sfoodin Janiiarjr,lSG3, Then came the transaction of the Waitara; and h;s Excellency is-pleased fc>.say that the Waitara must be gnren up, bsSause facts had coaie to his knowledge which were not known to his predecessor. In passing, I m ay remark that it is rather a strange thing that'the reasons for abandoning the Waitara which are sriyen in his Fxeellency's "address to this House, should be newly the opposite of thoso which are set forth in the Hierooranda which passed between "&is Excellency and his Ministers. It woul i have shown a greater regard for the public consistency of the Government of the colony, if, when the late Ministers Jiad determined to place that lauguage in'his Excellency's mouth, in his a,ddres3 to this House, they had adopted the bild precaution of suppressing the memoranda previously dealing with the question. For my. own part). I ha*e been.unable, after looking at the question carefully, to find one single additional fact,' of any description whatever-(hear,~-h.eaT)_ whj^h was elucidated at the inquiries into the 'W-,anara question in March, 1863—(H«ar;-hear ) But l v<must say that it requires a confidence in the prestige of a great name,"'which-. ■' all are not fortunate enough to possess, and upon, which few can h.ive the bolduess to draw so largely as his present .Excellency—it ri:ij ares', I say, great confidence for His; Excellency to writeSinme to the Government and to state that be liaJ been eighteen mouths in.this country, and had failed to ascertain the most import tant particulars connected with ..that very question1 which he was himself sent here to settle. hear,) Why, one would naturally. haVe:supposed, if there were any of these extraordinary facts to ci>"me to light—that if this great crime had'been committed '• ,and that,, as was obvious, this was the real root of the; whole sore between the. two races r would*be natural to suppose that the vey stsp which, the JDius- ex: tnachina would have taken when he came to this country, woul i have, been to make himself entirely/ and fully acquainted with all the facts connected witfe the matter. I will venture to say, that men of less ability, after, finding they had made so great a mistake as to have delayed making that inquiry, would n^alr events, have had the cowardice to conwal the fact that, they had, made such a mistake. Well/in the fab>~encer bf any inquify'fiitp-iljG AVakara'queVifonwhat -we. have done i s simply 'this: —By an inW mous. shuffling of the cirl Sj <to transfer The great crime ; from the heads of on° set) of Xftives to another. If we did a great wrong urider one theory to William King, we. are doin^it noW under,the other, to Te 'i'eira. Remove the wronz from our own heads, that we do not do;; and I can\ conceive no less-likely way to give Confidence to t'he'j dative raca T than by this reversal of a great act— this, what I call mean and Contemptible attempt to set rid of, to sweep out of the way that which we have a suspicion to be wrong, and'to shrink from an investigation tint wonld .have displayed our actions in., their true light, one way or the other That Waitara question is at the root of the present warthat qu stion was the policy of the late Ministry. I do, rot mean that it was the policy of the late Colonial Secretary or Native Mini-ter ; for I rc-fu-e to enter, in this H.,use, into a discussion Jts to who held one opinion or another in the Government of this colony. I think that my hon. friends have committed a great mistake m publishing these memoranda at all, which were bandied about between tb.enWves* and the Governor on this matter. It has arisen out of what I must call that melancholy b'uftder we made last session by refusing the respo.isioilitv of .native affniis ...It, as it were, suggested to the honorable gentleman that he should hold his own character harmless in certain events; and on the principles laid down, I think that the splitting up of the Government into individual minds was the natural consequence of the state of things which created a division between the Ministers and the person of the Governor. I will exclude auv such difference from my consideration.. in. the.remarks which I shall make.- I do not mean to apply them personally to Sir-George Grey, for 1 do&tknow whether he wrote the despatch's, m they were~written bylhe Native Mtinister-and I d.oh't want to know. I Will speak of the Government as a whale, that being, as I corceire, the Constitutional attitude which the Government ought to hold with reference u> this House. In March. 1863, we had blotted two years out of the history of H.c TSolanf, and have got bask to the old question of the Waitam war. Up to th^t. Tims > had there been any movement among the Native.-- hul there bean any murder* —had there been any of those mysterious etters, which have b»en published with blank aft r blank, in the papers-?- -No, I see.one letter written by my honorable friend, in dismay at the audvUv of the Natives in destroying 'that su«pic!o-is buildin^ at Kohekohe ; m which he says, " Dbwa here" (he was writing from the Tatiraimika) "down here where we expected difficulties, we are at peace, find su Jdenly ye were astonished at hearin"that with you in ■ the Waikato, wh'ra. we expected nething but peace, Tthere we have this difficulty commencing./ 1 say, p-eruse these papers, and you will not; fand in any part of ths colony the smallest desire to interfere with the peace- of the colony—not the smallest desire to interfere with the life or "property of any settler -up.to that fatal moment when we reoccupied th' 6 Tata'aimaka block with a military force —(ones ofi-:''Oh ! oh !") t^Tlie honorable gentle-nan who cries "Oh!" ra:iy have private information but I am speaiung from the papers ou the tible: and I say that there is almost a blank iv tha hisfory of t,h-» colony from the cud of last session up to March,-1853 I am perfectly aware what the position of slfaiis at. Taranaki was- that you were there as [ said'lust uassipn, in a state of war and not of peace—an armed truce, and a waiting to see ho would first break it. It is of that act I am now speaking—'of that act of going to war, and of re-opening hostilities without having done an act to solve a question that could only be solved in the one way or the other. But immediately after that time —after you had occupied the Tataraiinaka—there is a stir tat s place through.- ' the ■ whole mind of the natives You have an ■ uneasiness, extending * from Elawke's Bay. to the borders of Auckland—you have reports coming in from all directions.- Tne change which seems "to have taken phce, so far as it is depicted by the Government papers, is most remarkab'e. What you had then said to the Nativ s was this—"We are not going to settle this Waitara 'question by psacs, but by the sword." And the jNattves accepted your challenge: I will venture to say that any .fair and independent mind, reading itho^e papers, and paying attention to the dabs, will come to the conclusion I have mentioned." Ido not say that it was hot necessary to s?ttle the question by the sword; but this Ido say If for two years I have been saying that that question might have been settled otherwise'than by the sword, I, and others who act with me, are not in a position to justify the re-commencement of that war upon the part of the English, before any fair and honest attempt had been made to give a solution to it by other means. Well, after this act, you had, as I 4aid> a general stir through the mind of the Native race, and you had several acts occurring, to which a sismijicancs has been given, and which have been made use of in what I call a shabby kind of way by the Government, ag if it were to stimulate the

: Eur.pein- ra-,e. iinto a sense of those norrible ; and outrageous; savages with whom they had to do : For example, first- there wasMr .Gorst's school ab 'ie ; Awatnutu. What was it I It was a school esta- • lilisliid under the Boar Jot "Vlucation, and uirler the ; directory. I hciiavo, ot the Bishop I ..Mr.."B«LL:.-Nv>iu.naly.- ■> /MrtflTZ IsSHjU, .»: Yes, nominally, no doubt- !. and of"-Sir William1 Mai tin. It was a school which i succeeded in the most remirkable mani.er, (Ling the ! ihost extraordinary pood, until you converted it from i a school into; a political agency, ami uutil you sent '■■ down artic'es, writtea by that able man on the spot, •or somewhere in the Native officj here—articles ; which are simply in tho nature cf a perpetu.it irritai t.ion to the natives. —(ijear, hear.) My honorable ' friend says, " Hear, he'-iri*' Let him take a printing press aril go do wq to tiie town of Tralee, set up 'a • newspaper there, and write some articles on, the i Roman Cathelia.religion. I will telr^ou what would happen to him. He would not liave his press takeu ■ away, with a very'yolite warning that it wa> dtsirab'e, i witlnn a certain time, he should leave the country, • out the probability is, he would have his head broken: lin the first (24 'hours.— (A, lauglr) .It seems to •me really ridiculous, . and quite beneath us > altogether, that we should have such a nonse.nsieal story told about this knocking ; "up of the Waikato school, wheu it is. evident to ■ everybody tint we had established there a political 1 .agency, and had a hired writer to wr'.te articles L (which, were, however we may regard them, like so • many stinging gnats and bees to ilie. native race.. t j'Well, that is the first story by which our feelings are I -roused into n. -ense of jast am'righteous iudiguatim.'. t '-Wh>it w.s the next 1 Tha attack upon Kohekuhe. i lam -£[oubt-"u! what I shall call it. '(he iVatiW i 'Minister, in one of 4ii,-3 letters, calls it a " school and 3 fpther buildings"—(Liughtar:) A doubtful euphot iiism. la another or the papers it is called a " Court ■ijtlpiise ;" and I think thar. at a later date the word [■^•"'Police-" is found creeping in. I want to kno,v 1 fwhat that building was] i want to know whether 3 tthat building was not a strong milita. y redoubt. I i.ftvant to know whether the 'natives were not asked ;' Sbr perm'ssicn to place a. sehooPhouse upoa that site, 1 jsind whether the Government did not coueert it into : |a strong military redouht. I have taken the trouble i $6 inquire into the facts since I have been in Auckt (land; and I believe —and I think their ownpapers I .show it—that under the guise of a sehoorvhouve ) and cpurt for the peaceable administration ,of the* law, it was the intention of the Govern- • >aent to introduce there a strong military- post,' i to enable them to overawe the^natiyes. There is some- \ ihing touching in the account'of the horror wlrclr - appals th-se two ni'ives— Herekia aud another— ■ who wenr. to see it, and v»ho were struck by the maj; , nitude of the timber ustd. " this a *cLoo)house! v : j they exclaimed, "Why it is death to the nation!" ; that is thi word; and they sent it down like a torch" i to induce the inhabitants to defend the cjfintry^ It - flowed through the land, aud down they came -what r is ;alied '' a mob" in one of the newspapers—and i they threw the whole thing into the \rater, and then, , even, they hurt nobody. But here is another ques- ; fion: Here is a letter from the Native Secretary, i which I am sorry I caano; now refer to, not having i come prepared with the papers.'-. There are, in fact" ; one or two letters, which p ace this case in so striking • a manner upon the old Waitara footing that I cannot i help alluding to them. ~Te Whsreo, ' think it is, feiie man who builds this redoubt, assumes the ri»ht to ; build it on his own.land ; but it is not so. Tt^ia his , uncle's or his fathei's also—a mm who, at the onset ; had the very strongest objection to the redoubt I being placed t here. But Te Whereo, who appears to • have beftn the Te Teira of this transaction, he proceeds sto build tb is place ; and what I wanted to refer, ; to was a letter of the ■ Native - Secretary i and its language, the result of which this: He i writes to'those who pulKd it down " What right '' have you to interfere with a man who is building this > place on his own property ?. Has he cot a right to : do what he likes with his ovn 1" Thus opening up- ,. again, as I could show, almost word for word ° the i' whole dispute of the Waitara—the question whether .; ii man had a right to occupy land, tor military puri poses of the English, upon his own title, a-liul^ note has been, put into my hand, by my honorable • friend the late Native Minister, which-1 will', read '■' ■ because it is so Striking. Writing on the 1 it.li April' ,i Mr Qorst says, V^l have not sent for the .printing >; press, &c M because,'first, it seems li.jht that those •'; who took the- property away should brin« it- back :; themselves; and; secondly, because it is notonr p->licv i;^-present to listen to the Wrongs: we are suffering at 'X the hands of the natives." { I ask the House if the . only way,in which we coaiW-settle the question was i boldly by the swo-d, or by winning the confidence of the-satives by. open and even-handed justice and by open truth and if it was resolved by the Governi ment. that the sword was not necessary -I ask^ .were we.'.d.aliug with ■ the Mtiyes openly and ■ '■iionestly,>iVAnd:.- i .iiL.^^.::yay^^to...^ai9 their' " in the matter of the £ohTkohe;}«doubt Q* : Would not that have destroyed ths whole " confidence of the native race in us, and hay-> swep aw <y the tifect of every profe^ion we have niade f,] r .half. "a century] I.can trace in the conduct of the Government sines; the lasb session, no one single'fea \ ture in their p licy^no one single.-fact, whi-h' could >jgnve any tendency to win the confidence-of the Stives. I see a constant disposition to humbug them. Eyi n that expression—it may be a . unfortunate one -wh'.ch has been caught up and repeated ■ over and over asrain by the Natives—when t'icy were told that the King movement was not to be oppcs°i by force, but that we-would dig round its loots until it tumbled down. Can you conceive any expression ppoken.to a race in a state .of soreness an I mistrust more likely to strength n such feelings, than that we were going insidiously and underhand- to dig round and to let down an institution, that they looked upon as-the sole support of their nßtional existence? I have occupied ths Hou'e.a long time and been mnking a rather debitor v speech which, taken unexpectedly as I wa«, I could not avoid. But myo'j cthas been this—to declare ray absolute assuraicj that the events /whkii have occurred sines the, last session do not, ity the slightest degree, contradict the predictions which I then ventured to put forward. I am as persuaded now as I was then, that there is no necessity whatsoever fur.the war whicli is i ow raffing— that every thing which has happenei has hap. pe.ned becansa we had denief tbe>aiives that simple juistice-whichthe} had all along insisted upon. We have denied it them so long, thah at last they will not accept that justice at our hands, ido not now say thpjt the war is not necessary or not justifiable Whether it is necessary .or it i& ju-tifinb!e are two diSerent questions. By not bsing nep ssapy, I mean that a wise, bold, and-honest policy would have avoided the necessity ; by. being justifiable.- I mem : v that however we might hare avoided it;- yet the natives have themselves accepted the arbifrat:on of tlw sword, .and must now stand th;' issue of the. co .- sequences."- But when lam asked to absent to a^bill wlph include * friends and foes in one, tremendous re.iju!t.,.;it becomes my duty to ask this House 'owfir we have ourselves, by our'policv". brought about that state of tbing3 which has rendered sorae v c^eteive mea;sares or other Snecessary.- ■■ If ther-i be^.n-i t''in°more necessary than another for statesmen Yo-da ia the. -pre'senli cd-is of tiie cjlopy-whea we ar* living in a-state of doubt as-to-'what Settlement may not be cut off, by the rising of tribesnow opnily frienliy—above all things it U nee >S3iry. as a matter ot the highest policy, that, whatever ehe we ao we should be careful to dra-v a clear and distinct d:(----terenevtetween friend and foa hetweea those who have cone right and thess who" have rime wvw> That with m2, would be the touchstone of any pol'cv which might hi proposed at pr seat.. A lanj-e portion of the Nat: Yes are not now in a st^te of hostility to the Government. Nay, at an earlier peri;d, I am certain that it wouli. have bsei povible to have separated a coasidfrable number of the Waikato tribes'from the infiu nee of the Ngafimaniapoto • and even now, the most important tiling to be done is to try to wi 'eu the lire ich as far as you possibly can, betwe n tlv frien.ly and the hostile Nativesabove pjlthiags to take, care that you do not iaclude all in one common ctegory. This Bill is to do pre c^ely tb^at mischief which Is ly it is your first duty to avoid, And I must siy that, disposed and an?iou3 sis I;am to give the utmost support to her M»iasty's Government, I certainly did regret that in the speech made by my honorable friend at the lieiu of the Gave"nment—and with, the greater part of which I fully agreed—whil;... there was a lon°hsfc of the coercive measure? which he said he w?s goro^ to propose for acoeptanoe, I did not hsar one wo^-ri or"-an opposite charactar— not one single proposal of any kind by which the half-tremblin"-loyalty of those vnafive3 not yet drawn info the war might be conanned— not any gpnerous proposal by which those who have stood by us in the first part of t'ns diffi^ulfcy were to be rewarded. On the contrary. I heard of nothing, but under the uenera! cassifieation of " natives," of the vengeance to be east upan them. -(Cries of " No, no.") Tint is the way 1 interpret the tJill .which I hold, in my hand, j The honorable gentleman ia that speech sxid—and itwas sail in another place wita greater force that d the first lesson to be taught the natives was obedience t --(Hear,- h°ar.> —Yes, but there are two ways of • teaching obedience. I diire say the House can re- b member the very shocking tale of a schoolmaster at -s Brighton, Eome three or fpar years ago, who set an•' t unfortunate boy a Itsson, and who, because he wou'il not repeat;,certain words, beat him with a stick a again, ang ;againj and again, until at last he died o under; the castration. Would it have been at justificationj-would it have been any answer to d the, .univefsal shout of execration all over the r country, to1 say that the first .element of instruction d was;obedieace—and that at all risVs and hazards the B ■boy,-,inu>t be taught to obey the master ? ; No,:-"gir" • 1 obeaience is won in two ways. If you appeal to th^ 1 operation of fear, it is very easy to drive men into a t

state ot obstinae ferocity, in which obalienoe' 1»----comes imposs.ble.. You must not only try to elicit the senUment ot fear, but aim the sentiment «.f ivaheSoFallN t' ? y ICJ;- Ifc s;l^ that over the S^ririn,, n T«~ that undefin d paaishuient, the °he Governor r'' 1" I?n° Per f ty at «•« arbitrary will of l^eSXence l^%^f "civ^'SuT 0! 11; 1101 denying o r. «rciye natute are necessary—nnt denviue tint IS.-TTi-l"'" witl powers.ioi tne suppre'E'on nf m Q unon which this one is f-amed an 1 £Z PU IC- p c the policy of pa-rinc any su.'h Tl J lotestl"? :>^^ moment 7 lu\ny osa?pffiJffiS™e«u-« *t ««» whom I have consulted, the who l „?,„f.' m 9 fn f e?! U power of cbnfi.catia.'j tl c lamlTot LS ?" I ' of being disputed on legal g-ounds \\ . " C3pab'e that arguments h a7 e %e,u, and' J IIP - t0 F* reference to our action now L <w' r? I8«d m wliethe- this House posw sps th Courts of Law, conflating the lands cFnativ! . "% of an easier plan to act upon f UP iU.n ye l)een have mJe ad, cohfi^aiou"! ttt^r^ t0 bargain Nvith the nati.e race, ftl? iionnr?i . ?}"°l says he ,b.snot intend to ma'<e^peacT No /w? v^ry likely, not as.with a hostile power bit \ O L terms he must- shako, and one nX ri, Q ' me rca^a^scond time this day six months U RODfB thought that the present difficulty arose from the Government never having used U he power■ belongs to,the position they hai assumedthat .thpy were conquerors, and the natives we? ito ob y. -It was a faJtenna: l-etwpen two positions that hrought,about the,difficulty. There was ""dec ded feeung amongst the natives to have a kine of S own, and not to live under the regulations of her Majesty's Government, He thought it wa, now their duty to-proceed, wisely and justly, to decide^ wh'.t cou'dbe; done with the natives, withreWtothJ exercise.of the rights which they had heretofore en deavored to exercise, without icjustice on the one hand, or that sentim-ntalism whiek seemed to%ha theXr. honorable eruber(MrFit 22 erald)on 'No other member rising, Mr VOX replied. He had-not expected that the measure wou^d be accepted with so little discussion! He coulri only assume r.hat the honorable member for Ellesm^rejMr FKzger.ad) had travelled into matters foreign from the Bill; and that other members were nn willing to follow him into the discusssion of the policy ot the late Government, to which he invited tiiem, .j He thought the House had shown a wi<e discretion.. No man could more completely concur in the sentiments-or some of them of the honorable member than he (Mr Fox, did. He believed that if tlds had been the time for passing judgment on the own* "fthftltewar-for discussing the conduct of hV Kxcelleficys advisers during that period, and particularly, the surrender of the Waitara and the c -mmc..cement of the Tataraimaka war lie should have been standing by the honorable member's side But the honorable member seemed to forget that there was in,this colony, and within fifty miles of that House, ab ;ut 5000 or 6000 armed natives in rebellion • and that that require I, not a discussion of the pist c-mduct,ofthe late Government, but support of th« present, action of the existing' Government He should have preferred it, if the Bill could have been framed so as .to avoid the objection that it drew no line betjreen offending and friendly natives : but. there were extreme difficulties in the way of le-slatin-antecedently upon such, a question, and "drawing custmefeons. ( here mi^ht be in native villa -c* parttculaivpartions Helongine to natives who, never per- ..*°. n.?,«!** M* P art in rcb2liioa: but could ihese ba left out, uMformmg a distiict that was to be specially occupied by aboly of European settlers ?' No They ,musj ; do as lie staf-d at firatrtti-'y.-inosi' tatettip-''^fjtiie-rehel ■.*ttd-.-hat^F with tins, mstm^tion-that you-compensatd' the -one" and re/nse to compnsate the other. "That was the only impor ant point on which the honorablmember imputed the Bill; and if anybody con point out how it could be amende-!, without dlstroyli/'ff'i'f I'^' would consent to it. But he di 1 not see h™ it ot-.'ld be done at all bo.. a?ain, as to the constitution of the Courts • the Government would be very ready to consider any pro s:ssti m ade< aad to ad °'4 jt-if J»sec^nd™me! IlWaSaloPfced> and ths Bill wa, read a