PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 557, 30 September 1863, Page 5

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

TUESDAY, 29th SEPTEMBER. The Speaker took the chair at four o'clock. NOTICES OF QUESTION AND MOTION. Mr MILLER At the next sitting1, to ask the Provincial Secretary when the Crown Grants for the Municipiil Reserves in the townships of this Province will be obtained.»■ Also in what manner the Government contemplate dealing with these Reserves. ....-' ■ ■. .. . . . .

:M?■ GLEESON—At the next sitting to ask the Government whether it is their intention to desire the Marine Engineer, recently arrived from .England to examine and report upon the jetty at present under construction by the Provincial Engineer at Moeraki, and if so. when it is probable such"report will be laid before this Council.

Mr GLEEbON—At the next fitting, to move th*t ft respectful address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent, requesting that a sum of money be . placed on the Supplementary Estimates, sufficient to ■ imetal certain portions of the North Trunk Road between Shag River and Oamaru, at present said to be (Itapassable in bad weather, -*# The PROVINCIAL SECRET ARY-To move at 4he next sitting that 20s a, day be allowed to all representing country districts, residing two " guiles or more outside of Dunedin, for such period as obey shall attend meetings of the Provincial Council, Bxcepting such'as are members of the Government, the *4jroeaker, and the Chairman of Committees, and that / JBiileape be allowed to all such members residing be-—-™ond five miles from Dunedin at the rate of 10s per •ft HAP.BOX ENDOWMENT AND DEBENTURES.

£lhe v PROVINCIAL TREASURER laid on the the Ccie °Pm'on °f the Provincial Solicitor, in reply Jf following question which he (the Treasurer) '-fCjbmitted in compliance with the resolution of pToprimmittee ar, the previous sitting:— £™jan the sum of Twenty Thousand Pounds, ap*j Jk ated out of current revenue, as a Loan to the ■ »r Endowment, by Act of Council, Session XV, Tfcaid from proceeds of sale of Debentures, issued *5 Cur?avbor Loan Act, 1852?' *' Ibpinion was as follows : — >R-:renue Appropriation. am of opinion that the proceeds of the DebentSßl cannot be applied in the repayment to the Provincial Treasury of the sums appropriated as a Loan.

"The Otago Harbor Loan Ordinancs, 1862, ha Clause 1, enables the" Superintendent to issue deben- pc ture9 for such sums as may be deemed expedient for the improvement of the Harbor and the construction -we of works. "The sum iaised is not for the repayment th of Loans. The .repayment,of these Loans or appro- th priatioria is specially provided for by the 11th clause vii of the Ordinance. The persons who advance money so, on' these Debentures have a right to see that th money laid out in permanent improvements, lai so that their security may be increased, th If the money raised on the debentures could be appropriated to payment of the past liabilities, without f Ol anything appearing as to what these liabilities are, nvi the whole money^ as raised might be expended and w i not one permanent improvement made. The persons fi r Tfho lend their money would look at the Ordinance ga j authorising the loan. By it they would see that it is , proposed to lay put thejnoney,advauoei- on- future- --. improvements, 'andTHat their security would be the . Provincial revenues and the lands mentioned in the , Ordinencs. improved in value by. the expenditure of ' their money and other moneys already lent or ap- ~ preprinted by the Government. They would also be ' Jed to suppose that the L 60,000 would not be ex- ~, pended in payment of the loans made by the Pro- \ vincial Governmtnt for the improvement of the Har- .. bor,. but that the repayment of such loans was epecially provided ior, not out of the Debentures, but out of the proceeds of the sale of the land. . • " James Pkkndergast, V " Acting Provincial Solicitor." m IOWEtt TAIERI PERUY. n( MrMOLLiSuN asked "Whether or not the d! Government have taken any steps in. the formation . of the approach through the Maori Reserve to the c! New Bridge at the Lower Taieri Ferry, which is fast 01 approaching completion.—lf not, when they intend "' to do so?". . P Mr DUNCAN said the Government had taken lt steps for the formation ot the road, which would be n carried along the foot of the hill, tnd be completed in j ( less than the five or six months .which the honorable member thought would be required for the work. t THE TAIERI RIVER, a Mr MOLLISON asked, " Whether or not the * Government are prepared to do anything towards r closing one of the channels at the mouth of the Taieri , Kiver1?" At certain sca-ons, owing to the shifting of *j! the bar, no craft could enter the river ; hut if one of the channels was closed, vessls would most probably *j he enabled to enter at any time. * The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said the * Government thought it desirable the question should f be referred to the Marine Surveyor, who had been brought out, and that gentleman would, at as early g a period as possible, be directed to give his attention i to it. THE LUNATIC ASYLUM. t llr VOGEL asked that'before he proceeded with c the motions which stood in his name, the Chairman s of the Select Oommisroe on the Constitution and s Management of the Hospital and Lunatic Asylum ( should be permitted to bring up his report, as he. had i calculated would have been done before.the motion 1 came on. Leave having been given, Mr MURISON read the report, and laid it on the ' table. Mr YOB-EL said his object in asking for the report was to show that it, in no degree effected the proposal •which he had tt) make. He had, in consequence of iuciuirie3 he had made, to ask permission to amend ■ the first, motion ILJ. was told th it it was not likely for any sum to which the Council would probably assent, that a medical man could be obtained who had made lunacy a special stucy; and that if a responsible Superintendent was placed in charge of the Asylum, it would be, with the attendance of a medical man, sufficient for all purposes, at present. He would, therefore, with the consent of the House, amend his moiion, to the following :—'■ Thaijan Address bn presented to his Honor the Superintendent, requesting him to place on the Supplementary. Estimates a sum for ihe Salary of a Responsible ltesident Superintendent of the Lunatic Asylum, and also ah additional amount for the &f edical Attendant;.'' His object "was, first, to have some responsible person in control during the absence of the medical man ; and, second, to provide a more adequate sum for the medical attendant. The sum at present on the Estimates was LICO. He thought the House would agree that the medical man ought to vLit the Asylum once a day, if not cfteuer ; antl the amount proposed would be less than 6s a d-iy. which it would be something like an insult to offer to any medical man for such a visit. He thought the House would aaree that these unhappy beings deserved that there should be some responsible and educated man in charge of the Asylum; thnt ordinary attendants, who had not that control over their tempers which education gave—who were more or less laboiing men—were not fit to be m charge; and that there should be some one who could report to the medical man what had occurred—a Wtg the more difficult seeing that it was one phase ofWanacy to imagine ill treatment. If such a man was provided, wlio should never allow restraint to be used without recording the fact, and if a sum was also provided whi<-h should be sufficient to secure the regular visits of the medical man, they would, perhaps, for tLe present, have placed the Asylum on a somewhat satisfactory footing.

Mr lIENNIE seconded the motion. He held thai a qualified practitioner should be in the Asylum continuously—that a daily visit was by no means sufficient.

The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said that the nuuciple of the resolution was unobjectionable. But by his next motion, the honorable member would propose the sending home for a gentleman thoroughly acquainted with lunacy; and that could not be accomplished uutilUia next session, In the meantime,

a person had b^en appointed to act as Ke&idenr. Superintendent under the Provincial Surgeon, who would receive an additional salary for his services. The motion, as it stood, asked ior one thing which had beeu done, and proposed an addition to the salary of the Provincial Surgeon. That, gentleman had hitherto'reftdved LSOO for taking charge of the hospital and luuntie asvlvm. which had been combined in one building; now that there was a separate asylum, it was proposed to give him LlOl) extra for the additional trouble to which he would be put. He did not think that by making a further addition any greater attention to the Asylum was likely to be secured than the Provincial Surgeon would give for tha LIOO which it was proposed to vote him. It might possibly be necessary to change the Superintendent hereafter; but, meanwhile, there he was, in charge, under the control and on the recommendation ot the Provincial .]Surgeon. The Superintendent, appeared on the Estimates as " Keeper, L 160," for she year; and h« (tae Provincial Secretory) did not think the motion of the honorable member for Waikouaiti was, under the circumstances, necessary.

Mr EEiVNIE seconded the motion without knowing that the LIOO was to be giv/n as an extra to the Provincial Surgeon. He thought some one not connected with the Hospital should be in charge of the Asylum.

MrVO^EL, in reply, said he did not conceive that a keeper at LISO a year, was-likely to be a person such as he had contemplated for Superintendent. He believed that the Asylum should be distiuct from the Hospital; and, under his motion, it would have been quite competent for the Goverment to make it so. He charged the Government with a-want of frankness in this matter. There was nothing in the Estimates to show that the Provincial Surgeon for whom LSOO was to be voted, and- the surgeon, under, the headof Lunatic Asylum, and tor whoraLlOO was asked, were one and the same person. Believing that two gentlemen were referred to, and that the LIOO oaly being voted for the surgeon, that gentleman must be led to suppose that lie would not be expected to pay a daily visit to the Asylum, he (Mr Vogel) wished to have seen a sum of say L'3so voted, with the distinct understanding that the surgeon would be expected not only to visit the place daily, but to be at call when needed. He thought the evidence before the Salect Committee clearly showed that the Asylum had not been under sufficient cpntrol—that althongi there were no complaints whatever about the medical men, th ire were serious complaints as to the conduct of one of the attendants. -

The motion was put and negatived

Mr VOGEL said that he felt so strongly that he was simply performing a duty in taking charge of these motions, that, despite the little support he had received, he must press the second. The necessity and importance of the proper control of an institution likp this did not seem properly appreciated by the Council; and the proceedings of honorable members would afford strong argument in favor of the General Assembly taking up the whole subject of the treatment of lunatics during its next session. Stilly as the asylums were at present under Provincial control, he must move his second resolution. Even if the General Government did take the management of the asylum?, they would want properly skilled men to superintend them ; and if such a gentleman as he proposed was sent for, there was not likely to be any loss, as the>Gfeneral tf-ovaminenfc would be too happy to secure hisservices. He could only conclude that some honorable members supposed that because the inmates of Asylums had lost their reason, they wire to be classified with wild animals—(no, no); but in most communities it was thought that no expense, time, or trouble war k>3tv which had for its object the promotion of their welfare. He wished to make a slight addition to his motion, which would then read thus :—

" That an address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent, requesting him"' to write home to secure, the services of a professional gentleman who has made Lunacy iis special study, audalso two competent keepers."

Mr HARDY would second the motion; but he ■would have done so with far greater readiness had the honorable member told the House how many of these unfortunates were under the charge of the Provincial authorities.—(A voice: Four.) If that was so, while all must'sympathise-wjth the sufferers, he thought it would be doubtful economy to create a large and expensive staff at present. He would second the motion pro forma.

Mr BLUR thought that the honorable member for Waikouaiti arroeated a position to which he was not entitled—tbut of being the only member within whose breast was the milk of human kindness. The first resolution was negatived only because it was said that the things asked for had been provided.

The PK,Q^,XNlOiAL_SECßS.TAaYjwaalsurpri9ed at thecb'urse taken by the honorable member in introducing the motion ; for he seemed to tliiuk that he was the man, and that virtue would die with him; and that because the Government and the Council did not assent to his every proposition, they were cruel, and deemed lunatics to be wild beasts. But he (the Provincial Secretary) sympathised deeply, as he believed the House did also, with the unhappy condition of these lunatics; and when any proposal was made which was desirable, it would not be debated with any regard to a paltry, pecuniary consideration. He thought there was great truth in the general proposition coutaiued in this amendment. The number of inmates ot the Asylum had not hitherto been great; but of ceurse there was danger of its constantly increasing with the increase of the Province, and especially seeing that the exciting nature of the occupation of a great proportion •f the people had a tendency to produce a sort of temporary lunacy. But while he assented to the general proposition, lie objected to the addition as to the two keepers. He was informed there were only eight lunatics in connection with the Government— (laughter)—lie meant in the Hosp.tal and the A sylum.; and that if a skilled gentleman to superintend the Asylum was obtained, he would easily and soon train two or three active and intelligent mea as keepers. If the honorable 'member would withdraw the addition made, he (the Provincial Secretary) couhi support the motion. Mr REYNOLDS thought the best thing that could happen would be. what the .honorable member for Wakouaiti had held out as a sorb of threat—that the General Government should establish a Central Asylum. In the hands of the Provincial. Governments

these establishments must be inefficient or unduly expensive. If the honorable meiriber would withdraw

the present motion, and propose one in the Assembly for a Central Asylum, it would no doubt receive the support, not only of the members for the Province, but of the House generally.

Mr BIiODIE could understand the motion if there was to be an asylum here for the use of the colony. But if that was to be so, he did not understand why Otago, with regal munificence, should fupply the wants of the colony. If we were to receive lunatics from other Provinces, we should need such a Surgeon as proposed; but if was an importaut preliminary question, who was to pay him. Mr MUSS thought that some time ago the General Qoyernineit obtained plans for an Asvluui at Nelsonj aud that the matter had not been proceeded with, only because of the war. If the honorable member would make his speech in the Assembly he would no doubt be well supported; but the proposition was one which the Council ought not to entertaiu.

; Mr VOGEL thought that such sympathy as .that shown by the Provincial Council was of little yrorfcij, and clearly had not taken the trouble to'inforna lutn-

self on the simplest facts. From September,-1862, to July last, there was 36 lunatics under the charge of the authorities. Of these, 3 hud been cured, 5 received benefit, 3 were not benefitte-1, one died, and 14

remained on the books on the 3lst June; In.-the Gaol, there were 17 lunatics treated during the same

time. If the General Government took up the question, he thought the Council would insist upon having an asylum in this Province; for to send

lunatics hence to Nelson would be barbarous, seeing that they would be shut out from the visits of their friends, which visits were much looked for and often attended with most beneficial results. He would, with the consent of the House, withdraw the reference to the keepers. Leave having been given to this withdrawal, the question as originally on the notice paper was put and declared to be negatived. A division was called for, when there appeared— Ayes, 11: Messrs Dick, Duncan, Rennie, Hardy, Blair, Mansford, Morris, Hughes, Mackenzie, Gillies, and Vogel, teller. Noes, 16: Messrs Moss, Kilgour, Birch, Macandrew, Eeid, Paterson, Brodie, Miller, Steel, Pinkerton, Gleeson, Hepburn, Stephenson, Burns, Murison, and- Reynolds, teller. The motion was therefore lost. BANK AT WAIKOt/AITT. Mr VOGEL asked leave to make a personal explanation. He found that he wns reported to have said, at the previous sitting, that Waikouaiti " had a Bp,nk;" but what he said was "that a bank was about to be established.'? As it was a matter of fact, he wished it to be explained, in order that no question might be raised. SUNDAY OBSERVANCE BILL On the motion of the PROVINCIAL SECRETARY, the House went into Committee to consider Message No. 10, which was brought down some days ago, and w»s as follows:— 1 " The Superintendent thinks it expedient that the t second clause of the Sunday Observance Bill, 1863, A should be amended, as shewn hereunder, and returns • 1 the Bill amended for the consideration of the Pro- , I vincial Council.—" 2. Any person, -who shall, on

middy, in, or in vi«w ot aay maa, owe.-.', or jjsibl'e pl< 'lace, trade, deal, transact business, or expose goudj a, »r sale, or keep opeu to public view nny house, store, im hop, bar, or other place, for the purpo-e of trading, mi eaiing, transacting business, or exposing goods for Pi ale therein, or play at aay game or pastime in any oad, htreet, or public place, ov discharge any fire- i n rms, shall, for every such offence, be liable to a p 0 lenaity not exceeding ten pounds, recoverable in a 8 h uniinary way before any Resident Magistrate, or two lv r more Justices of the Peace far the Colony a i f New Zealand in the manner directed by the th Summary Convictions Act, 184S : Provided that sll lothing herein contained shall be construed to pro- an ilnt the sala of medicines, or the keeping open of (j<, he shops of dmggists or apothecaries; and that S p othing herein contained is to be construed to in- pc erfere with the Licensing" Ordinance in force, for the ta eguJation of the sale ot spirits, wine, beer, or fer- Q { aented-liqours, it being expressly provided that e g ersons duly licensed to sell spirits, fermented S(i iquois, wine, ale or beer, to be drunk on the premises, shall not be prohibited hereby, or b anjthing t |, erein, from selling the same between the hours of t | c ne in the afternoon and seven in the evening of any j^ uuday. (Signed) "John Hyde Harris, re , " Superintendent." pa The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said that, as ad been befove explained, there was an addition re; lade, at the suggestion of the Provincial Solicitor, Si )as to prevent the Bill clashing; with the Licensing su >rdinance. He moved that clause 2, be struck out of ta le bill, aud the amended clause inserted. Ci This was agreed to after a few remarks from Mr OGKL. mi The Kou.se returned, the Bill was rf ported with an ." } mendment, aud the amendment was au opted. co, . : mi BUILDING ORDINANCE. The House went into Committee on the Dunedin th u.ilding Oidinauce Interpretation Ordinance, for the mi urpo.se of making some amendments suggested by it< le Solicitor. be Mr MACA.NBREW asked that the amendments lould b« printsd. The PROVInCIAL SECRETARY had no ohjec- T on; aud th. motion having been withdrawn, the [ouse resumed. THE EMPOWERING ACT. Mr MACANDREW moved thai; his motion on s j, lis subject (published yesterday) he made o f i order of. the day for Thursday. He j n , anted to know whether the House was willing j^1 » discuss the s matter, or whether it was s jj msidered too late to do so this session. He beeve t that a simple compliance with the motion ■ould send the-question of Separation to the "tomb ;' all the Capultts," if it had not already reached that ourne whence no such thing returned. tl Mr BIRCH seconded the motion. Mr VOGEL thought the simple object of this pro- m )sal was to give sptcial prominence to the very long su ssolution of the honorable member for Port haltners. ; "" Mr MACANDREW: Hear, hear. Mr VOGEL thought the resolution went beyond i. ( le^powers even of the Asaesibly, and interfered with v le Royal Prerogative. Ths PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said that sub- to icts of almo>t paramount important, to the Pro- q Lnce were involved, and he regretted that the reso- jj ition was not brought forward at an eavly period of w :e session. He did not wish to shrink, from the iscussion it would involve; but as the honorable a j, lember knew it was most desirable that the business g! aould be concluded this week, if possible, and he a ould suggest that the motion should be withdrawn ntil the next session, when it dould be discussed in ■ full House, before honorable members were wearied 'ith work. " Mr MACANDREW would have no objection to o j ithdraiw the motion. s \\ Mr REYNOLDS thought that the present moment ras one when the question should specially be dis- re ussed, seeing that the Assembly was to meet at once nd that it might be two years before it met again. The question was put and declared in the affirrua- a t ive. j) BELL HILL WORKS. Mr BURNS moved— •P* ** That taking into consideration the many interests P 1 lvolved ia the removal of the Church Hill, and articularly that portion in connection with the m Ihurch property, this House is ot opiuion that the gi rovernment be requested to push forward those 01 l-erations with all speed/ 'h^_ matter, involved.,the keeping of a large pongre- Si atioh from having a proper place of worship, and rhile this was going .on, the Government was liable s j > considerable expense. T The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY seconded the ni lotion, in which he heartily concurred. The Go- pi eminent wai of opinion that the "works should ba pi ushed on as fast as possible. Mr E. B. CAR'otILL thought it was a strange sort d f motion to adopt, unless it was meant to imply that Bi here had been neglect on the part of the Govern- fo nent. Mr BURNS simply desired to strengthen the tl lands of the Government. There had be .11 a great a eal of looseness about contracts, and he wished to cc this at ones strictly carried out. ji The motion was agresd to. si THE MOLY.NKUXFERRT. T Mr MANSFOIID moved the adoption of the report , if the Committee on Thomas Wood's petition. All .he evideuce taker; by the Committee, including that >f Mr Howdezi, was to the effect that ihe accident in P Fanuary resulted from the insufficiency of the punt, md not from any neglect or carelessness on the part t' )f Thomas and Wood the lessees. There was t 1 claim against them of LSOO for the value t )f property destroyed «r injured by the si ipset; and an action was commenced which it was believed would have cost L3OO. Thomas and Wood 0 were advised to settle, which they had managed to do j by the payment of L 27 0; and the Committee were t unanimous ia recommending that this amount should 0 be repaid by the Government. A great many com- \ plaints as to the management ot the Ferry had been handed in; but the Committp.e had not gone into _ them, being thoroughly satisfied, from the evidence, F that there was neither carelessness nor neglect on this particular occasion. r Mr REYNOLDS seconded the motion. ' The PROVMICAL SECRETARY would not oppose the motion. But there had been so many and such general complaints as to the management of the ferry and the accomodation house, that he must declare the lessees ought to receive what they were entitled to in strict law and justice and no T more. ] Ia the course of a discussion, ©apt. MACKENZIE said that the same punt was 5 still in use, and drays such as the one which caused l the accident were constantly being crossed by it. l Were the Government to be responsible for any future accidents ? He believed that the new punt ] would never be worked at all on account of its weight. There was timber enough in one of its parts < for the construction of both ; and even now, empty, > it displaced half its balk in water. Mr BURNS said the existing punt was a mere ' washing tub. ' Mr VOGEL.onIy regretted that the members of the late Government could iiot be made individually liable. Mr E. B. CARGILL thought the Council could hardly do otherwise than adopt the report, seeing that the Committee were unanimous' in the recomtaendation. The motion was agreed to. PORT OHALHKRS PETITION. ■Mr MACANDREW brought up the report of the Committee, in this petition, and it having been received, he gave notice to move that.it.be printed. TAIERI PLAIN ROAD. Mr PINKERTON brought up the report of the Committee on the Taieri Plain Road. FEMALE IMMIGRATION. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY brought tip the report of the Committee on Miss Rye's letter to the London Tivies. THE TOWS BELT. Mr BIRCH presented a petition from certain inhabitants of Dunedin respecting the Town Belt; and it was received. FINANCE COMMITTEE. Mr MORRIS brought up the second report of the Committee on Finance, which he read, It was received, and notice was'given to move that it be printed, NOTICES OP MOTION. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY—To move on Thur-day, " That the report of the Select Committee on Female Immigration be adopted. Mr MACANDREW—To move on Thursday, " That the report of the Select Committee on the • Port Chalmers petition be adopted, aud that a copy ■ thereof be transmitted to his Honor the Superini tendent, together with a respectful address to \he effect that, he may be pleased to appoint a Commis--3 sion in terms of same, for the purpose indicated in , said report. s Mr MACANDREW—To move on Thursday, - " That a respectful address be presented to his Honor a the Superintendent, requesting that he may be

pleased to pli;ce upon the Supplementary Estimates a. sum sufficient to cover the expense which may be incurred in connection with the Commission recommends! in the report of the Select Committee on the Port Chalmers Petition.

Mr MACANDREW—To more on Thursday, that in the opinion of this Council humanity aud public policy render it expedient that suitable provision should be made for the proper treatment and care of lunatics, and that with this view it is expedient that a General Lunatic Asylum, s-hould be established for the. Middle Island of New Zealand, in such locality as» shall be most accessible and convenient for the Provinces of Nelson, Canterbury, Otago, and Southland, and that a respectful adilress be presented to His Honor the Superintendent, to th j effect that; he may be pleased to take the necessary steps towards inducing the General Government to provide such an establishment, fully equipped with all the appliances of modern medical science.

Mr MURISON—To move at the next sitting, that the report of the select coimuittee upon the constitution and management of the Dunedin Hospital and Lunatic Asylum be adopted.

Mr VOGEL—At the next sitting, to move that the resolution in regard to the Gold Fields Secretary, pas.-cd in committee of supply be adopted.

Mr BURNS—To move at the next sitting, that a respectful address be transmitted to His Honor the Superintendent, that he wiuld be pleased to place a sufficient sum on the Supplementary Estimates to establish a Ferry over the Taieri River, at Scroggs' Creek.'

Mr BURNS—To move at the next sitting, that ths memorial of certain inhabitants in the town of Dunedin respecting the Town Belt, be takeu into consideration when the report of the, Select Committee on' public reserves is brought up.

Mr PINKERTON—At the next sitting, to move that the report of the Committee on the comparative merits of ihe.ro'ida'to the Dunstan by way of tha Rock and Pillar Range, and that by the Taieri Valley be adopted.

mechanics' institute reserve bill. On the motion of the PROVINCIAL SECRETARY, this Bill was read a second time. The House went into Committee. " In moving Clause 1,

The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said the Bill simply carried out a princiole affirmed in Committee of supply. It was desired to remove the old building, which stood in front of the Custom House, and thtre was no intention of putting anything else on the site. Clauses 1 and 2 were agreed to. On Clause 3, The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY moved to fill the blank with L 2500. Mr MACANDREW thought the land was worth much more. Had it been agreed to accept this sum ? The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY understood that it had. Mr MACANDREW said the money was to go for the educational benefit of the whole community; and he thought the fair market value of the land should be given. .

Mr REYNOLDS said that the Government agreed to give L2OOO for the site, before the discovery of the Goid Fields. Surely it must be worth more than L 2500 now. If the Government would not object, he would move to increase the sum to L3OOO.

Mr E. B. CARGILL would not object to a vote in aid for the institution if it was fairly brought forward. But he did not like its present shape. It was useless to. talk of the market value of this land. It was a reserve vested in the Superintendent, and he thought it was 'competent for the Council to declare that it should be used as a reserve for a purpose other than that for which it was originally intended. But he altogether objected to a vote of money as for the purchase of a site which could not be sold.

The motion was agreed to. On the clause being read,

Mr E.- B. CARGILL said that the clause was a very curious one, as it authorised the Government to advance L'2st)U for "any Mechanics' Institute in Dunedin."

Major RICHARDSON would move the following proviso—" Always provided that it be applied for the purpose of a site of a Mechanics' Institute."

The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said he admitted the remark of the honorable member Mr Cargill, but he alone was to blame for it, as it was his own bill.

Mr E..8. CARGILL said it was the Provincial Secretary's work. ~ ■ '

The PHOYINCIAL SECRETARY said that the site of the Mechanics' Institute had been leased to the Town Board, and the only way in which the Athenaeum and Mechanics' Institute could hold the site in perpetuity would be to bring in a special bill for the purpose.

Major RICHARDSON said there would be no difficulty in investing the proceeds of ihe sale of the Mechanics' Institute in the purchase of land as a site for the new building.

Mr MACANDREW said, it was intended, when the lense was granted, that ultimately the Athenaeum and Mechanics' Institute should become a freehold.

Mr E. B. CARGILL thought there was no power in the Government to buy nor in the Mechanics' Institute to sell the ground, and recommended the withdrawal of the bill altogether. *

Mr BRODIE ask?d if the Trustees had a Crown Grant of the land.

The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said the Superintendenthad.

Mr HARDY said that if the bill was passed with the first clause only it would give the power to sell the land for public utility. It appeared to him that the sura having been voted, it was not necessary to say how it should be applied.

The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said the vote of the previous evening was for the purchase of a Mechanics' Institute, and if it were not devoted to that purpose, it must be reconsidered. He had no objection to report progress and take the advice of the Provincial Solicitor.

The House resumed, and the Chairman reported progresss.

[We are obliged to hold over the remainder of our report until to-morrow.]