PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 306, 12 December 1862, Page 5

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

THDRSDAY, 11 tii DECEMBER.

The Speaker took the chair at four o'clock, and opened the sitting with prayer.

The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY laid on the table copy of correspondence between the Provincial arid the General <'Wtrnment, relative to the «-p----pointment of the Commissioner of Police as a Resident Magistrate ; moved for by Mr Hafdv. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY 'kid on the table copy of resolutions defining the future relations of the Superintendent and the Executive, which, contingent on the assent of his Honor and the Executive, he intended tb move at the next sitting. A message from the Superintendent was brought up and read, absenting ti the appointment of Mr Andrew Fleming, a-r x>emity Auditor, in place of Mr Erlam, deceased.

( Mr HARDY gave notice to move, at the next sitting, that an address be presented to the Superintends-. Twinging him to cause to be laid on the table copies of cor t-sporidence between the Government and au ija. : ijti. who may have claimed or received any reward for gold discovery.

CHRISTOPHER HEILLY AND THE NAVIGATION of the molyneux.

Upgn the motion ot Mr WALKER the petition from Chriitopher Reilly, presented on Wednesday, was read. It w:is ns follows:- -

'■ To the Munbers of the Provincial Council, in the Province of Otago, New Zealand. " The humble petition of Christopher Reilly, of Dunedin, miner, '■ Sheweth,—That your petitioner was one of the discoverers of the Dunstau Gold Fields.

" That conceiving jit would be productive of inestimable advantage to the Province and the mining population therein, your petitioner engaged in an undertaking for investigating the river Molyneux, lea-l-ing to the said gold fields, in or about the month of August last, with the view of ascertaining whether such river was navigable —at a cost to your petitioner of £600 or thereabouts.

(i That your petitioner, in entering upon and prosecuting the said undertaking, deprived himself of the opportunity of mining on the said Dunstau Gold Fields, where lie then had an extensive payable claim.

" That the object your petitioner had in view was \ to secure facilities io the miners for travelling to and I from the Dunsdan gold fields, and to reduce the ex^r- 1 bitant prices charged for all articles required for con- c sumption, by opening up a channel of communica- £ tion with Dunedin, more available than the roads in ii their then impassable aud dangerous state. v " Your petitioner begs to call the attention of the c members of the faid Provincial Council, to the fact t that out ofthe amount of LGOO before-named, he has v received the sum of L2OO from the Otago Government t fjr boats, leaving him still a loser to the extent of a L4OO. t "And your petitioner therefore humbly prays that r the said Provincial Council may be pleased to appoint fc a Select Committee of the Council to enquire into and i report upon the circumstances aforesaid. 1 " And your petitioner, as in duty bound, will ever c pray. t '* Christopher Reilly. i "Dunedin, sth Dec. 1862.' r Mr WALKEIUaid that seeing the Council formed, t as it were, a court of last appeal for sny ofte who con- !: crdved that he had a eloim upon the Government of c the Province, he thought it would be well if the fi prayer of the petitioner was granted. He (Mr Walker) j knew nothing of the circumstances of the t contract between Reilly and the Government; d and of course he wa^ not going to say that if entered a in .simply ns a speculation, Reilly had or could have 1 any claim for compensation. He (Mr Walker) would r move that a committee, consisting of Mr Dick, Mr C Cutten, and the Mover, be appointed to inquire aud I report. i Mr OS WI isr seconded the motion. •■ i The PRO VI NCI AL SEORETARY said that there were parts of the petition which were undoubtedly t true ; and there were othei-s which only the petitioner y could know. It was true that he was one of the dis- r coverers of the Dunstan 'gold fields; and it was true s that f>r ifc he received L 1,000. Of course, only the c petitioner could know what wero his motives in un- : dertivkii,g the navigation of the Molyneux. If ifc 1 was as stated, it was a most kind and laudable < one. The engagement entered into by the £ Government was a simple one—to pay Reilly L2OO for his boats, provided he tooi< then up the Molyr.eux to the Dunstan, and delivered c them tliere to the Commissioner. One boat was left I •by Reilly at the Teviot—but to that the Government 1 did not, object; while the other he got to the Teviot, i and delivered as agreed. Since then both boats had f been accepted, and the L2OO had been paid. The 1 value of the boats he (the Provincial Secretary) did < not know, for thifc was not a point with the Govern- j ment. their object being more the opening up the ( navigation of the Molyneux. Whether Reilly was 1 still L-100 out of pocket, he did not know, i but ifc was very probable that such, or f something like ifc, was the case. There was < however, nothing like a bargain that the Government ] should bear all the expenses; and howev. r good a 1 commercial enterprise it might have been made, the Government, would have felt bound to pay the L2OO s as agreed. Therefore they did not feel af liberty to < pay more than the L 20 0; but they could not object ' to any award to Reilly, if the Council chose to make : one ; and therefore lie had no objection to the ap- i poinbrncnt of the committee fully to investigate the i matter. Mr MARTIN could not see that the claim to the '■ inquiry was established. Mr H-\RDY did not think that a case was made out; but ho would support the motion, as Government did nob oppose ib. Mr RliY. OLDS would vote for the motion only < because he thought there should be no appearance of hurking inquiry iv such a matter. Mr WALK IS It thought that there was no decided object-ion on the part of the House to the inquiry, and that ib would generally be regarded as an act of «racsful courtesy to grant the prayer of the petition. COMMITTER OF SUPPLY. The PROVINi lAL SECRETARY said he regretted that he could not, according to notice, move— '' That the House do »>ow go into Committee of Supply." The estimates were not yet printed; but he expected that copies would be received in time for going into Committee on the Panama Mail Subsidy Rill. He would withdraw his notice, and renew it for the next sitting. KILLS READ A THIRD TIME. The following were read a third time and passed :— Licensed Auctioneers' Bill, Lodging-house Bill, and Harbor Endowment Ordinance Amendment Bill. CEKRTERIJJS KILL. On the motion ofthe PROVINCIAL SOLICITOR this Bill was read a second time. The House went into Committee. The PROVINCIAL SOLICITOR moved several modifications and indicated others. After a long discussion, in which Messrs Cuffcen, Hardy, Gillies, Todd, and Walker took part, three clauses were p»assed in' an amended form. The PROVINCIAL SOLICITOR said ifc would be well that he should have time to consider the amendmcutv. and suggestions; and he therefore moved that tho Chairman report progress, and ask Jeave to sit again. This was agreed to, and the House resumed and lea\e to sit again wa$ c obfcained. ESTIMATES. Tho PROVINCIAL SECRETARY laid on the table (he Estimates of Receipts and Expenditure for the JiaJf year. PANAMA MATL SUBSIDY BILL. Tho PROVINCIAL SOLICITOR moved the second reading of this Bill. He wished ifc to be un-ders!..>-.>d, that iv speaking on the measure, he should express simply his individual opinion?. The Supcr-intcn-ieiit had sent down a message, on the subject ot'^ this i3ill; and he thought the course taken br hia Honor was quite constitutional. It hal gone abroad,; that his Honor and his Executive did not agree ; and if his Honor had not communicated his views to the Council, he must have stood isolated, and have consented to a measure of which he did not approve, or have refused to consent to it, whereupon the Executive must havo resigned, While perhaps the majority of the Council were in fcror of tiie measure. In discussing the measure, he '(tlw Provincial Solicitor) though};"it desirable that t-bere should be the utmost candour and openness; that all ihe difficulties, uncertain ties, risks, and liabilities should be clearly sot forth and dealt with. This course became tho friends of the measure, of whom he was one ; for If the General Government got the idea that; such a course had not been taken, they might refuse to consent to the Bill, simply on that ground. At present, there was no certainty that any portion of the subsidy that might be voted, would be returned to the Province as contributions from the Australian colonies. Statements alleged to have come from Mr Ward were In themselves contradictory. It must be assumed that the whole subsidy would have to be paid by the Province ; for the probability of contributions was, he thought, not great. Any contributions could only be ! made rateably on the number of letters, or (is postages; but as postages were General Government revenue, there was very properly no stipulation regnrling them in the bill, Notwithstanding these circumstances, he thought it of the utmost importance that, thoy should endeavor to secure that Otago should be the terminus ot any wail line via Panama. It was impossible, he thought,- to over-estimate the advantages which would accrue if an arrangement of the kind was made. The General Assembly by a very large majority, had voted LSO.OOO a* year for five years towards a Panama line : so that there coqld beno doubt that Mr Ward, the Postmaster-General, while in England, would to thg utmost endeavour? to negotiate such a line. He thought that that gentleman was likely to give preference to some other place over Otago, as the terminal port; but still they oqgbfc to'gtrerigtjien Mr Ward's hands by a vote, if they thought'tbat the resulting advantages frQraJSfoe line wosvldfar outweigh the amount of the proposed isubsidy.; There was one matter of difficulty which had never yet been noticed which he thought it right to atate. The act of the General Assembly provided

■that thepontribution from '< this colony " should not exceed L 30.000 a-year. "ThY colony "meant '• New Zealand," co that if the literal meaning of the clause was to be adhered to, any vote' of the Council would only go toNyards^be L 30,000 provided for by the Act ot the General Assembly. jj u t he tboughtthat the Assembly never contemplated the possibility of a Province wishing to contribute directly from its own resources and'tha* the contribution contemplated, although described as of " this colony," was only meaut to.be that of: the General Government. The clause provided "tbat the full amount of the proportionate expense thereof, to be borne by this c°i(' n >''sh. aU, not»inanyoue.year, exceed the sum of L 30,000, inclusive of all sums that may be paid on tbe carnage .of maiis, or for any other subsidy." The 4th clause waa, however, important. It was - " The Treasurer of New Zealand shall issue and pay a sum of not more than L 30,000 in any one year, to such persons, for the purposesof this act, upoivsuch days, and in such proportions, as the Governor' by auy warrant to be signed by him. shal" from time to time order and direct: and every payment so to be made shall be -charged upon, and be payable out of the ordinary revenue of the colony of New Zealand." Had the clause first quoted stood alone, there could be no doubt that the difficulty he suggested would exist; but the 4th clause threw con&L'erable doubt upon the point, and it would be for the General Government to decide the matter. He should support the motion ; but he had determined to do so only after great difficulty, for hefelt tbat it would have been far better that more information should have been given to the Council, and that they could have had time more deliberately to consider tiie measure.

Mr REYNOLDS seconded the motion.

Mr HARDY was at present neither opnosed to the measure nor in lavor of iti He wanted to know whether tbey could afford the money which they were asked to vote; : and if they could, whether he scheme wcs likely to be carried out. Mr WALKER said that honorable gentlemen no doubt knew that a distinct offer for the service hud been made to a member of the Government (Mr Reynolds). He thought that honorable gentlemen no matter in what light they considered it could come to no other conclusion than that this measure, if it could be carried out, would be of immense advantage t - the commerce, welfare, and prosperity of the Province. As to whether they could afford the money, he coiud not speak. He understood tbat tlie matter had been postponed in order that it might be preceded by the financial statement of the Provincial Secretary; but, as there was no time to lose in sending an answer to Mr Ward, he coasidered that it was well to go on with the discussion. He saw from the estimates, that the probable half-yearly revenue of the Province was L 167,370 ; while the expenditure was set down at nearly L 400.000 His opinion was, that it was unfair, umvfse, and impolitic, to expect. a young community life this, which was laying the foundations of its social and commercial prosperity, to pay the whole expense of roads, buildings, bridges, and other public works necessary for opening up the internal communications of the country, by land and by water, out of current revenue. If tlie credit of the Province was sufficiently good to enab'e them to borrow, and if the revenue was sufficient to pay tor interest and sinking fund, they ought not to revard the mere balance of revenue and expenditure. The prosperity of Canada and Australia was largely due to the adoption of the course which he now suggested. He felt gratified at the prospect of raising a revenue cf £170,000 ; and he thought that it justified their entering into the proposed contract. He couid not doubt tbat if the service via Panama was properly arranged, the Australian colonies would be very willing to pay their share, for the sake of getting letters more frequently; at all events, if ehey did not, the General Government could refuse to convey their letters. He did not think that the General Assembly intended to prevent any Province from adding to the £30,000 if so minded. b

Mr HEPBURN was impressed with the conviction that this was a chance which, if lost now, might neverpresent itself again. He did not consider that the relative position of income and expenditure at present should be considered ; for if the 'scheme was carried out, it would make Ofcngo be looked to, as the Province deserved, not only by Australia hut by the home country. He thought every member of the Council should give his opinion on so important a subject.

Mr MARTIN asked for further information. Mr GILLIES said that there had been much talk of advantage to the Province from the proposed mail Service; but none of the honorable members who had spoken had condescended to details on the matter. He could understand Liverpool supporting such a scheme, so as to .anticipate London in news; but he could not see the neces-ity for it in Otago, especially seeing that so much was wanted in tbe way of public works for opening up or improving the means of internal communication. It w*s not sufficient to have a fine glaring exterior while the interior was impoverished; and he feared that the proposed mail service would have something of this effect, by making Otago talked of, as the terminus of the Panama Mail, while Dunedin and the gold fields were neglected. h

Mr REYNOLDS said tbat it was a mistake to suppose that there had been any "distinct offer''to establish a Panama service for L 50,000 a year There was no such thing in tbe extract of the letter from Lima submitted to the Chamber of Commerce; and the last letter received, dated 25th June, merely stated that the matter was in tbe hands of a gent'eman who would write definitely as soon as he had seen the manager of the Pacific Company, who was then absent. For himself, h> (Mr Reynolds) had little doubt that for LOO, 000 a-year the thing could be accomplished. He wondered at the complaint of the honorable member (Mr Gillies) that there had been no setting forth of the special advantages which a Panama mail service would secure to Otago ; because to him (Mr Reynolds) they seemed so patent, tbat to state them was almost unnecessary. He remembered when similar objections were raised, when it was proposed to give a subsidy of L 4,000 a-year for a regular steam communication with Melbourne. But,the results of that subsidy had been more beneficial to the Province thau any anything else ever underl aken, and they might reasonably expect that there would be as great, or greater benefits in proportion to the anount to be paid, from the proposed direct communication with America and England. The honorable member (Mr Gillies) talked about Liverpool and London; but he (-Mr Reynolds) saw no rear-on why they should not strive to make Otago the principal port in the Southern Hemisphere^ They might nob succeed, but the effort would he worth something; while it was certain that tlie result he indicated would never be attained, if they stood hesitating over a. few hundred or a few thousand pounds. Mr CARGiLLthought that seeing i had not been discussed,! here was a degree of vagueness in the way in which the Bill had been brought before the House, which w:is scarcely consistent with the importance of the measure or the amount of expenditure involved. Of course, a Panama Mail Service would be of very gn at benefit to these colonies, and he had always regarded it as a mere matter of tini* when it should be established. He was not a red hot advocate of the proposal to jump at a direct communication with England via Suez. He did not attach much importanc to the receipt of letters a day or two earlier. To his mind, the chief benefit would be that the service would place Otago iv the direct stream of communication between Great Britain and the other colonies; that it would give to the Province a notoriety which would cauJe the flowing in of capital, and so raise the value cf property, and call 'greater' attention to the inducements to invest which the colony offered. Could not the Government give some indication of Mr Ward's views and expectations with regard to the establishment of the service ? for at present there was no offer, but only a suggestion of one. He (Mr Cargill) believed that Mr Ward could never carry out the matter, except in concert with the Imperial Government, and that Government would never conclude so important a matter, except with the guarantee for punctuality of performance, which could only be given by a large public company, He did not believe that such a service could be executed for even L 60.000 a-year; such sum must oniy be meant to be in addition to a similar one to be obtained from other end: and he doubted wbelher Melbpurne qr Sydney would ever join in any arrangement which did riot provide fpr a separate and distinct line of steamers, bringing out the mails, aud waiting for them on the other side ofthe Isthmus. The thing ooijld not be done by trying to Snatch anything frpm or Sydney \ but only by fall investigation and clear proof that it would be greatly advantageous that Otago-should be the port of terminus for.the steamer's. With whatever suni the blank in the bill might be filled, the Council must regard it as one,which they must be prepared to. meet whenever the necessity arose; it would not do to speculate upon certain advantages being apparent to |,he otljer colonigs, sp tjjab tbey must take part of tbe burden. \t ought to be a condition, that the postmaster-General gave some substantial assurance that he saw his way to getting contributions from the other side. If it was attempted .tp conclude an under which it could be sajd, <' Now you must come in, and pay for ypur letters/ be believed that the pride of the elder colonies would be roused, and that they would rebel, He believed there were advantages whlcb could be pointed out-gueb as that Otago was about equidistant from Melbourne aud Sydney; and that both could work the service cheaply by the steamers they must keep on for other purposes. He protested against the Council contemplating a loan in order to raise the subsidy ■• and ag taking it froirj the '.territorial revenue, could not be thought of, they must make iip tjjeir minds to p^y it put of ordinary revenue—or be able to do so- - if the contract was onea made.

Mr CUTTEN. regretted that the Treasurer had not made bis financial statement before tbe discussion was entered on, or at least given some information. ftie PROVI|?OIAI4 SE6RSITARY f I-am about to do so.

Mr CUTTEN objected to the fondness of the honorable member for being the last speaker, for he had all the information, as to monetarymatter* aad

nngot take which fide he liked. Seeing tbji. the Go-verumf-nt had announced that tbe question was au open one with them, and that two members'of it had announced that they would vote for the motion, it was not unuaturai to look to the honorable gentleman for opposition. The state;-'of the revenue must be considered on the matter; but the question was not whether they had .the.money or ; not. If it was, the mofcron must be rejected at once. This was one of those events that happened once in the life-time of nations a3 of men; it was a case of an opportunity of (.'oing something, which if they tailed now to do, they might probably never have again the chance of doing. The probability of making New Zealand the centre of postal eooiniuriicaiiou with the home country was an event of such importance that it was worth making very considerable sacrifices to secure it. The document just laid on the^table showed tbat there was an estimated revenue of £170,000, and a proposed expenditure for the half year of £378,000. He had glanced over the estimates, and he found such items as £9,Q00 for lighthouses, £5,000 for tbe West Coast Expedition, £26,000 for harbor improvement (which was to be repaid although the: fee; did not a->pear,)£l2,Qoo for school buildings, and £44,000 for other public buildings. A few years fago, £4,000 for steam communication with Australia was considered excessive, and no doubt was beyond the then means of the Province. What would be their position five years hence? for that was the point to which they must look, not to the present state of things. Let them try to replace themselves in the position of voting £4,000 a year with ft ar and trembling, and contrast it with the preset feeling with which such a sum would be voted: that would be a fair indication ot the spirit in which they might act as to tlie proposed su bsrdy. Take the worst view, there would be fi™ ?° pay half-y. arly; but if they could spend L.iy,ooo m a halt year for school buildings, surely th. y cou d spend LIo.OOO to make New Z*a and the cenire of the Australian colonies. Looking to the development of the gold fields, there could be little doubt that the prosperity of the Province would be as much increased during the next two.or three years as it hau been during the last two; and then, this vote woul I b3 considered a comparatively small one. No cutand dried planforsuchaserucewouldeverbesubmitU d to the Council; all they could be asked to do w.s something like the present proposal—to guarantee a sum which might probably enable a satisfactory arrangement to be completed. A guarantee only was asked, if the negotiations failed, there was a a ene; : rf they succeeded, he shonld feel satisihd that they had made a very excellent bargain for the good cf the Irovmce. He believed the General Assembly was heartily in favor of a Panama Service; and if it could .guarantee L 30,000, Otago need not hesitate about doing the same for .the next ten years. Otago, as regarded revenue, would be worth at tne rest of ihe colony put together. The honorable member commented upon the Message of t'-e bupermteudent; contending that none of his Honor's reasons were valid as against the bill, while some of them were really valid in its favor. He concluded by heartily supporting the second reading. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said he was not aware there was auy difference of opinion amongst the Executive with regard to the measure, except so tar as concerned the head of the Executive, who had in his message so distinctly embodied his views, that there was no hesitation in saying he was opposed to the measure. But his Honor was quite in accordance with the Executive as lo the propriety of the bill beim* submitted to the Council, so that honorable members would decide for themselves whether the provision's ought to be pledged to. Beyond this the members of the Executive were unanimous on the idea that if t « e^ servic? couid be secured by voting a grant of L.25,000 a-year it was worth doing go. While quite concurring in the i propriety of passing the bill, he was very doubtful whether they would succeed in their object, lln^the first place, tiie offer, which appeared to have been macie through a South American firm to a private gentleman in this Province, was that for L5Q,000 a-year the Pacific Steam Navigation Company would take up the se vice, but even when the Council had voted L 25,000 or L 30,800, he did not see where the rest of the 150,000 was to come from,, tor the Act ofthe General Assembly did not provide lor any money towards the service before January, 1864, so tirat for more than twelve months there would be but the L 25.000 or L 30,000 of the Council to meet the offer of the company He did not think that, even though the Council undertook to ?o y- Sa .Whole l ¥ 0 >00°. th^y would be able .to get L2d,000 towards it from Australia, for, from what he bad seen iv the public prints, he feared there was very little hope of getting anything from that source, at present. The Government had written to Vie' toi-ia, Tasmania, and South Wales, to ask how far they would support Otago in the matter. JNo replies had been received, but they knew that unices either^ Melbourne or Sydney was made the final port, it was not likely that either of them would support an attempt to establish the Panama service. Sydney had voted L 50,000 a year towards such a service, but he did not believe she would fcive a penny towards making Dunedin the'final-port; He was strongly inclined to think'that Sydney would prefer, if any port of New Zealand was to be made the hnal one. that Auckland should be that port From Victoria they might possibly look for support towards Otago, but he saw by a letter from the correspondent of tbe Daily Times, that Victoria at present did not favor the Manama service at ali, but rather preferred a second hue by way of Suez. Under all these circumstances it seemed to him that the whole service might be borne by Otago for at least the next-twelve months.

Mr_WALKER: It will take twelve months to organise any service. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said that appeared to knock on the head the idea of an immediate communication being opened, as was suggested and it seemed to him to necessitate other arrangements. 1 hei proposal to do the service from Otago°to Panama for L 50,000 a year certainly astonished him by its cheapness; but although the oiler was yet vague and incomplete, still through assistance from the Imperial Government it might be possible, and in that case he considered it would be well that the bill sh uld be passed so as to secure the benefits that woull result to Otago The estimates had been laid on the table and it would be seen that the calculated expenditure for the next half year was L4OO,(KJO. and probably it would be made more than that sum before the estimates had passed the House. The estimated revenue, exclusive v 1° /nlo of debentures, was L167.0Q0 which left about L233,C00 to be provided. The Government were proposing to pass a bill tor a loan of half a million.- It had been expected that a communication would have beeu received from the General Government, stating whether a bill would be sanctioned by Jdis Excellency, but an answer had not yet arrivd, so that the Government were in a state of uncertainty, liven it the half million loan was raised, taking the design as it appeared from the first half year, the whole loan would be expended In the first year; at any rate, taking the interest upon L5Q0,000 at 6 per cent, it would amount to 30,000 a year, while a sinking fund at 2 pec cent for 30 years, would make another LIO,OOO, or a deduction of L 40,000 a year at the outset from current revenue, towards paying for the loan. °

Mr WALKER said the amount for harbor improvements was included this half year, and that would be repaid. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said it must be assumed at any rate that his calculation would last for three years. Then the ttmneil had already posed ?i?,a^ lIV fo, 1' ,LISO>OM, of which, it was true, only LIOOOO had been taken up as yet; but to provide icy the interest in the sinking fund, on the whole, ™-nnnT ll'^' ooo' In addition, there would be I^o,ooo for the Panama route to be provided for, making on the whole LBO,OOO, although probably that amount would not be required for the space of four or five years. He held that they could-libtan any way think of raising a loan for the Panama service; they must assume that they would have to pay the whole, and that it must come out ot current revenue, siuce it was not for any permanent work so far as property was concerned, lius would bave been alarming afone time: but he did not thmk it should be so now. The revenue was now about L 350.000 a-year, audit mij>ht be latgelv increased or decreased, according to the way in which the public lands ofthe Province'were dealt with. Ut course^ it would also depend upon the gold fields • but he thought honorable members would feel that the great variety anl extent ofthose fields was now'a well-ascertained fact; so that a very considerable revenue {rom them could he depended upon for some time to come. He did not think it would be money lost, to do all that was possible to make _tago the great commercial centre of New Zealand, lie believed that the present division of the colony could only be a comparatively temporary arrangement• and, therefore, although much of the benefit would go to the General Government, the Council oughtto do everything in then; power to secure for otago all the steamers, all the commerce, "all the power of every kind that was possible, even if jthey did jt by going into debt; for by going into debt tbey secured the lands for the payment thereof. If the power of dealing with the lauds pf the Province wrs taken away, tlie debt upon the land would go too: s2 «** hey heid tbe l^iids^ let them do the best for the Province—if they did not sell the land?, let them be mortgaged. Ar any rate, lotutagd be pushed ahead without delay, Two years ago, the then Superintendent strongly recommended the Panama scheme, i-ben, he (the Provincial Secretaiy)thought the time had not come; but now he thought It had, and fully. If he thought that carrying out the plan would interfere with the internal improvement of tl\e country,he would oppose it; but lie thought 'oath could be earned o*l. If it eUroe to ah issue be would prefer Edangsteam dredges clearing out Harbors* arid loconiotivea taking provisions cheaply to the diggings-, to securing d,ny mail service; for lie thought theyHwould ! be of more permanent advantage^but theycoidd be carried on together. The ODay;quesiadhwas,bdwfei' could their boiTOvring powers b©extended;^-Ifrenr Pen.?y ti&i <»i»W bg; feQCTOwed for rd^ ;biHdg^ieandi Eermanent works would be wellforrowed :£ariiL c was satisfied that, with afi their e^^ons,^ the action of the General Government; would prevent them; as borrowers, getting fcejoadttie point of^uM? beaefifeifta thfr^asixief

iPespite-;the difficulties '-, in the^ way cf the -Bill,- it slioujd have his hearty support 'as to the second readings;; "'-':", v. The PROVINCIAL SOLICITOR replied forcibly upon the discussion, contending that what was proposed would really be productive of revenue, and not a tax upon ifc. ; The; motion for the second reading was adopted unanimously Tlie House went into Committee.

Mr WALKER withdrew the resolutions of which he had given notice, as they were- rendered unnecessaiy by the secoud reading of tbe Bill. Mr REYNOLDS moved that the petition in favor ofthe measure for merchants, bankers, and traders of the city, be considered. It having been readMr CARGILL asked if it was strictly in order for the petitioners to notice Acts of Council ? The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY read trom an Ordinance on the subject, showing that it was not. Mr REYNOLDS would then withdraw the petition as he saw it could not be received. /

Several members held that it had been already received, and that the question was whether it could be considered.

- After some discussion, it was agreed that it could not be considered:

Mr. RENNIE proposed tbat progress be reported, and that the House adjourn. Mr REYNOLDS opposed the adjournment. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY pointed out that unless consideration of the Bill was gone on with, they would not be able to write to the PostmasterGeneral on the subject by the first mail. Mr GILLIES thought there would be no real opposition to the passing of the Bill, as the gentlemen who had suoken against it did so, iv his opinion, not as opponents, but because they were not so sanguine as others.

The clauses were then read, aud unanimously agreed to ; L30,0C0 being .inserted as the amount of the subsidy. ~ . ■ The House then resumed.

The PROVINCIAL SEORETARY said that before going further, they should frame a repiv to his Honor the Superintendent's message No. 9. He moved to the effect.—that the House had carefully cmsidered his Hoi.or's objections to the Panama route, but were of opinion that sufficient advantages were derivable from that route to justify the Council in proceeding with the bill. The reply was unanimously agreed to. The third reading of the bill was fixed for the next sitting; and at ten o'c'ock, the House adjourned until four o'clock on Friday (this day).