NEW ZEALAND PARLIAMENT

Oamaru Mail, Volume XXVIII, Issue 8290, 19 September 1903, Page 4

NEW ZEALAND PARLIAMENT

YESTERDAY'S PROCEEDINGS

legislative council.

The -Council met at 2-30 p.m. The Stat© Fire Insurance Bill was considered in Committee. Clause 12, relating to the proceedings of the Board, was amended, on the motion of" ilr George, so as to fender vacant the seat on the Board of any member appointed by the Governor, who'without leave absents himself from three consecutive meetings. Clause 13, providing that the Board shall not enter into any agreement for the purpose of reinsurance with-any private company fixing the premium payable, without the consent of the Treasurer, was amended, on the motion of ilr Lee Smith by the excision of the word "private." Clause 15, enabling the general manager to enter into contracts for reinsurance with companies out of the colony, through the medium of agents out of New Zealand, appointed by him, was amendeß, on the motion of Mr Lee Smith by the addition of a proviso making the consent ~bf the Board a condition precedent to such appointments. Clause 24/ making provision in case of insufficiency of capital.—Mr Lee • Smithcarried an amendment to make the Board's approval essential to any requisition by the geEeral manager to the Treasury'for supplementary capital. Clauses dealing with the _sinking fund and the application of profits were postponed. The remaining clauses passed with some verbal amendments, and progress was reported. The Police Offences Bill'was further amended in Committee by~the addition of a clause moved by the Attorney-General, imposing a penalty of £5 for the unauthorised removal of sand, stones, or other material from foreshores. The Council adjourned at 4.30 p.m. . . HOUSE OP REPRESENTATIVES, ilr Bollard urged that the hours of warders in asylums should be reduced,-and that their pay should be increased. Mr T. Mackenzie complimented the Hon. Hall-Jones upon his administration of this Department since he had taken it over. He' thought that very considerable improvement should be effected in regard to fire prevention in connection with several asylums. Mr Field spoke of the necessity for improvement in hours and pay of asylum attendants. Married warders received £BO a year, which was absurdly small. Other members spoke in a similar strain. Sir W. Russell contended that the) House could not properly consider these Estimates without being in possession of the annual report of the Department, which should have been presented to the House long ago. He complained that the recommendations made by the responsible officers, which would have resulted in improvement of the asylums, had been disregarded by the Government.

The Hon. Mr Hall-Jones said that the Departmental report had not yet been brought down because it was his intention to include in it some indication of the lines on which he proposed to effect improvements in the asylum administration of the colony. He thought tnat there should be some increase in the maximum salary of married attendants, and encouragement should be held out to warders to remain in the service of the Department-. Inquiries would be made from the Medical Superintendent as to the best means of improving the comfort of warders, in regard to hours of labor, and provision for separate rest dences. He was already making inquiries on the subject of the classification of the inmates, and had ascertained that in various asylums there, were confined aft- parsons who were suffering from old age, and were practically harmless, while there were 143 imbeciles and idiots, He was determined to liave these 507 people out cf the asylums, and put into more suitable establishments. He was also making provision which would more than obviate the overcrowding, and tlie result would be better facilities for classification, and he believed a greater percentage of recoveries.

Mr Ell movgd the reduction' of the item "Inspector of Lnmnic Asylums £1200," bv £3OO. He did not think that the oi+ica in question was worth such a high salary, and adversely criticised the. incomplete cluiracter of his annual reports. He paid a compliment to the Hon. W. Hall-Jones for the ko.-n. interest he was taking in this Department. His heart was in his work of and he :-Mr fill) believed that the Minister would have the blemishes in the various institutions removed before next

session. The Hon. Hall-Jones said that he was considering the question of re-modelling the law relating to the commitment of lunatics, and he was in- that connection endeavoring to make the relations of a certain class of people now in asylums take a. full share of their responsibilities. With regard to the two classes which he had previously mentioned, he was making inquiries for a building to which they could be removed without waiting for the erection of a new building. If he was unsuccessful in this search he.would select a site and erect a building. As to his future policy he did not believe in large asylums, bur. ill a series of smaller detached buildings, in which classification could be carried out. Ons portion of the building .should be. devoted exclusively to the reception cf new patients, and there also should be wards at the hospitals to which patients c uld be sent before being drafted to the various asylums. The term lunatic asylums would in future be abolished, and the institutions be styled hospitals for mental diseases. He intended to try the experiment of woman doctors in the female wards of these hospitals, and he would liave careful inquiry made into the cause of the increase in lunacy which had taken placs of late v<.ars. He hoped t-hat by next session membt ro would see very great improvements effected. The subject of a Board of Appeal for asylum attendants would ba considered. Mr Barber said that the state of overcrowding at -Mount. View Asylum (Wellington) "amounted to a scandal, and should b_ deaii with at once. Mr Davey suggested that a special Board >houtd beset up to inquire as to the- desires n.r.-l opinions of attendants. Mr wanted to know why the reforms now indicated by the Hon. HallJor..v,iiaci not born brought about years ago. The Hon. -Mr Hail-Jones replied that Dr Mnegregor kid repeatedly brought under ! notice of the Dapartment the fact that ware many inmates of these instituwho ought not to be there. As to -Mi.uei View, Tie did not propose to spetd much money oh it, but simply to keep it in repair until other accommodation was I provided. Jlr Bollard pointed out that" for years I Dr Macgregor had drawn the attention of the Govenrmcnt to the state of things that existed in the asylums, but his reports were ignored, ar.d he must have been disgusted, wk.h the lack of interest taken in the matter. Mr X. Mackenzie said that he had looked rt rive of Dr Macgregor's reports indiscriminately. and in each" he had found that no .-tronjer language could possibly be used than "the. Inspector of Asylums had used in. cunnectioD with the existing state of things. Tiie Hon. Mr Hall-Jones said that each year had sesn one step forward in the direction of asylum reform. • He urged that Dr Macirregor's salary should not be disturbed. He was a very good man, and if he {Mr Ha!i-Jones) considered that Dr Macgregor was not fitted for the position he would not hesitate to say so. Mr Ell agreed tliat Dr Macgregor had done good service, and admitted that lie had years ;!■/(> deprecated the overcrowding that existed in the asylums, had urged classification, the removal of patients suffering from senile decay, the" erection of detached buildings, ard early curative treatment. He (Mr Ell) had overlooked some of Dr Macgyegor's earlier reports, and now confessed that he had made a mistake, but he still contended.'that- Dr Macgregor ought to have exercised his authority and prevented the confinement in asylums of children of tender years. The' Hon. : iMr Hall-Jones asked, if they were sent there what could he do-? Mr iDavey complained that cattle belonging t-o Sunny side Asylum competed at neighboring agricultural shows. He thought that it was very unfair that the State should so compete with the small struggling farmer. These cattle should be entered for exhibition only.. •.' The iHoji. -Mr lHall-Jones said that there wns a good deal in what Mr Davey said. Che cattle should be present at the shows -"or exhibition only. After two and a half hours' discussion, the vote for Lunatic Asylums passed without alteration.. . - The House rose at 5.30 p.m. • . The House resumed at 7:50 p.m. At the vote for wie- Charitable Department, Mr Wood moved the excision of the item "Inspector of -Hospitals' and Charitable Institutions (also Lunatic Asylums, £1000)

£200." '-He did not tnfiik'. that-the* afford to pay such large salaries. 'The Hon. Mr Hall-Jones' urged that the" motion'be withdrawn.

• Mr -Massey pointed out that the. efifect of the omission of this item would be to leave the Charitable Department without an Inspector. • After some discussion, the motion-was lost on the voices, and the vote for.the whole Department was passed unaltered. • Department of Labor. Mr Vile moved a reduction, of the- first item by £l. 'He objected to the first clerk and deputy clerk. The inspector of this Department was being used by the Government for political purposes, and he moved his motion as a mark of disapproval of this state of things. The Eon. Mr Hall-Jones said that there was not the slightest foundation for MiVile's charge. No man was better qualified than the officer in question for the position which he held.

The -Premier said that Mr Mackay was one of the most conscientious officers in.the public service, and a man who had ho strong political basis. In the course of the discussion Mr _R. M'Kenzie said that- he considered the time had arrived when the .civil servants of the colony should have special representation In Parliament.

Mr Vile's motion was negatived on the voices and the total vote was agreed to unaltered.

At the vote for the Mines Department, Mr James Allen thougnc- the time had now come when a well-paid and thoroughly competent Government geologist should be appointed. This Department was not 6uf-, ficiently manned and he urged the Government to encourage the training of youths to work in the colony, and assist in the development' of our mineral resources. The present geologist was unfortunately ill and, unable to do the work that required attention, but he did not wish to reflect on 15s competency. > The Hon. Mr.M'Gowan said that though the Government geologist's health did not permit him to do field work, still Mr iMackay had been do'ing some excellent and valuable work for the colony in placing on record the whole of his notes and wide knowledge on the geological features of New Zealand, and no one was better fitted to do so. Under a statute Sir James Hector was, till h-e resigned a director of tag' geological survey, but his services were controlled by the New Zealand Institute. The Government was now only waiting the passing of a new measure to so adjust matters that a thoroughly competent geologist should be appointed, and the divided control of geological survey removed. Mr Herdman urged that greater assistance should be given towards prospecting for gold: The 'Hon. ilr \M'Gowan said that certain aid was given now under defined regulations. He had now, however, not the remotest idea of sending out parties of prospectors to look for gold. ilr T. Mackenzie moved that the first vote be reduced by £1 as an indication that a report b© obtained by Mines Department on the question of —e destruction of valuable agricultural and pastoral lands by mining. He pointed out the serious effect of the dredging operations on some of the rich land in Otago. Mr Reid and Mr Platman concurred that something should be done in: -the matter. The motion was lost by 29 votes to 26 votes.

Sir James Allen asked what steps were being taken by the Government for the establishment of a museum for Maori antiquities. Several members spoke on the same subject, but the Minister did not- rßply. In answer to a question as to the intentions of the Government* in regard to assisting .Schools of Mines, the Hon. Mr M'Go wan said that it' was not intended to let them go down. The total vote passed unaltered. The next class considered was that of the Department of Agriculture. Mr Lethbridge said that trie settlers did not know what the position was in regard to the Government veterinarians. He suggested that the "surgeons should attend private cases, and be permitted to charge a certain fee. Settlers would then know what to do and payment of fees would overcome the difficulty in regard to the small salaries of these officers. _ A lengthy discussion -ensued, in which several members urged that the veterinary surgeons should be placed on a more satisfactory footing. It was also urged that veterinary surgeons should be trained in the colony. . . . Mr Harding moved that the item "Viticulturist-,' ££300," be reduced by £1 as an indication to the Government that the House does not approve of the establishment of the wine industry in New Zealand. He said that, judging by the last local option figures, it was evident that a- feeling was evident that the end of the drink traffic was within measurable, distance, and he considered that it was a useless waste to spend money on the encouragement of the wine industry. He doubted whether that industry would ever be successfully established in New Zealand, but even if it achieved great success it would be nothing compared with the evils that would ensue. The motion, which was not discussed, was rejected by 43 votes to three votes. Mr Davey moved that the total vote be reduced by £5 as an indication that the salaries of the veterinary surgeons should be increased; that their conditions of service be improved; their certificates given recognition, and their services made available to the public generally. The Hon. Mr Duncan said that all the veterinary surgeons .were paid at the rate at which they were engaged. The Premier said that there were plenty of veterinary surgeons available from abroad, but they wanted to train their own, and t'nero was no justification for increasing salaries.

Mr Davey's motion was lost by 24 votes to 19 votes.

Mr Massey referred to the item "Compensation for loss through anthrax, £250," and asked how the damage was arrived at and how the compensation was to be paid. The Hon. Mr Duncan said that compensation was paid for the cattle destroyed on account of anthrax and the loss from the shutting up of paddocks. Mr Lang asked what was-being done in the erection of a plant for sterilising im>-port-ed bones. The Hon. Mr Duncan said that the work was going on as quickly as possible. Mr Massey urged that fair market value should be paid for animals destroyed. Under the Stock Act at present compensation was based on the value of an animal as diseased, and this led to outbreaks of disease being concealed. Under these circumstances he contended that the Act was of no value at all.

Mr Harding spoke to a similar effect, and moved to reduce the item "Compensation for loss through, anthrax, £250 by £l, as an indication that the beasts should be appraised at their full market value.

The Premier said that there was never any intention to pay for the stock on their value as animals free from disease. The Act was working very satisfactorily. ■ He said that since the passing of the Stock Act the Government had paid £27)526 to owners of diseased cattle destroyed by order of the inspectors. Mr Harding's motion was lost on the voices.

Mr Massey and Mr Buchanan, referring to the importation by the Government of stud horses, said that it would be far better to introduce one good animal than to obtain a number of second-class "screws," which were of no benefit to breeders. At 1.35 a.m. the whole vote for the Department of Agriculture passed unaltered. The next class was the Railways Department. which the Opposition members objected to entering upon at that hour. Mr Ell's motion to report progress was lost by 26 to 19. The .Committee then entered bn the consideration of the Estimates for the working railways department.

Sir W. R. Russell said it- was an, outrage fo vote such a large: sum of money at that hour of the morning,'"hi view of the difference of opinion that existed as to the amounts that .should be charged to revenue and what to capital. " . ' Sir Joseph Ward contended that if the theories put forward:by those, opposed to the present system were put into practice it. would crush the life out. of the users of the railways. ■ : Mr Massey. voiced several complaints about railway management m his district. Mr Jas. lADen quoted from the STew; South Wales railway report of 1901 to -show thatthe relaying, and respiking had all been charged .to- maintenance, and that many works which, according to that report; might . fairly have been charged to capital had been .charged :to> maintenance,'including the renewal of a viaduct in steel at a cost of £45,00Q..- ,Did tney, he asked, do thatin NewZaalahd? • , ; .•• • i'

Sir Ji&eph. Ward Yes, we do ' Mr Alien : No, you don t.;.: you charge t the difference between the cost of the origi-• I nal structure and the cost of the renewal.

Sir Joseph "Ward : ,We made .one .a few days ago and charged it to^maintenance. Sir William RussSl: That only shows that he lias taken our advice.

Mr Allen went on to say that in Victoria they not only .charged more to. the. working., expenses than we did, but: interest on nonproductive capital on uncompleted lines was debited to the Railway Department and included in accounts. Did Sir Joseph Ward do that? ,

Sir Joseph Ward : Not until we have taken them over. . Mr Allen said the Department had last -year begun to improve in this respect, a re- - suit no doubt due to the severe criticism; which had been levelled against, the? system j in vogue— ; ' . i In the course of further discussion, Sir W. Russell said he uad looked very carefully into the matter, and it was borne very- heavily upon his mind; that the whole system -of railway accounts in the Australasian colonies was radically wrong, and when hard times came and we could no longer borrow to pay dividends out-of capii tal the words they had been uttering jn the House for the.last few years would be remembered, and they would be obliged to manage out of revenue. ■> Sir Joseph Ward, quoted fiijures to' show that for years past the replacing of wornout engines had been paid' out "of capital. Hs would never subscribe to the «ictrins that the cost of a railway carriage which was to last for thirty years or so was to be taken out of the pockets of the'people by putting murderous rates upon them. New" rolling stock was debited to capital, and he also pointed to the fact that in 1899 the railways report had laid down the poney which was endorsed by the House, that two and a-half millions should be spent during five years on railway development. At 3.50 a motion by Mr Massey to report progress was lost by 29 to 16. A similar motion by Mr Vile at 6.5 was lost by 29 to 13. , - , . , Sir W. Russell entered a strong protest ■against the action of the Government in forc--ing through at that hour, estimates involving £1 301,000. '.lt Vas discreditable to. repre-: sentative institutions to have forced upon; the House a linei of conduct unbecoming sensible "business men. . . ■_ ' Mr Massey expressed a. hope that in. the near future some arrangement would'be come, to by which the fullest opportunity. Would be available for the proper discussion of the estimates of these Government State Departments. Take, for instance, the Railway Department. When the annual Railway Statement came down the Standing 'Orders should permit of its being debated on the same lines as the Financial Statement. Eventually, at 7 a.m., the whole vote was agreed to unaltered. Mr Seddon then moved to report progress, which was carried by 30 to 13. On the motion for the adjournment, Mr ilassey said the reason for the prolonged discussion was a breach of faith on the part of Mr Seddon, who had promised not to sit late. It was the most deliberate breach of faith he had ever witnessed. Mr Seddon said that all he had promised was that he would sit for a reasonable tame. The House rose at 7.40 a.m.