THE SESSION

New Zealand Times, Volume XLVII, Issue 10851, 17 March 1921, Page 7

THE SESSION

WORK OF PARLIAMENT VESTERDAV CONCLUSION OF ADDRESS-IN-REPLY DEBATE THE PRIME MINISTER S SPEECH

The House o£ Representatives met at 2.30 p.m. yesterday. The Mortgages it's tension Act, introduced in the Legislative Council, was formally read a first time. Preliminary business was completed shortly after 3 p.m., and Mr L. M. Isitt (Clu-istchurch North) then continued the debate on the Address-in-Reply. AD DR ESS-IN-RE PLY. MR ISITT’S OPINIONS. , Complimenting the mover of the Address (Mr K. S. Williams, Bay of Plenty) on his speech. Mr Is'itt said that, as to the seconder .(Mr J. Craigie, Tiuiaru), he had been amused at and bad admired the skill with which he had negotiated a somewhat difficult corner. (Laughter.) Referring to the amendment, he viewed the whole matter as an Imperialist. His Imperialism had grown stronger as he grew older. But. while an Imperialist. he was not a Jingo, and he cid not hold that the British race was perfect and a long way better than all other races. He did not deny that at our door, as a race, lav the responsibility for a good deal of error and wrong-doing: but he believed that the British race had led the way in the march of Progress, and had pioneered the track that other nations had followed and are following towards liberty, justice, and eeruality. He beliei-ed that the welfare not only of the Dominion and of the Empire, but of the whole world., depended in a large measure on the lead that the British race was giving now and would give in the near future: and while we had considerable difficulties to face in New Zealand, they were as rothing to the difficulties that the Empire as a whole had to face. He held. there-, fore, that New Zealand should be properly represented at the forthcoming Imperial Cpnference, and he supported, and he believed that every member of the Liberal party also supported, the proposal that the Prime Minister should attend the conference. (Hear, hear.) Witn regard to the second nart of the amendment to the Address, he stated very emphatically that he considered that tt would be very much better that Parliament should have been prorogued to the ordinary date: and he wished that a non-oartv vote should be taken on the matter. He felt that the Dominion was about to puss through a very grave_and important period in its history. Complicated questions had to be dealt with; and if Parliament met late in the year legislation would have to be. rushed through under the adverse conditions of a summer session. He proceeded to argue that Parliament might meet and get through the Address-in-Reply and non-contentious legislation before the Prime Minister -returned. Mr Masse- interjected that he had had in mind, and intended, that the House should meet and get through the Address-in-Reply before he arrived back in New Zealand. Mr Isitt: Yes; but much more than that is needed. The Prime Minister himself had enumerated a very long list or measures that needed to be passed; and if Parliament met at a late date they would have to be rushed through in a higgledy-piggledy fashion that would be no credit to the House nor to the Reform Party, and no good to the country. He regretted that the Finance Minister had not met taxpayers and given them greater concessions, because many men really financially sound had had great difficulty in paying their incometax. The concessions given, he pointed out, were not very great. For example the man who got the three months’ concession bad really to pay 20 to 25 per cent, for the .privilege, while the six months’ concession cost 20 per cent. OBJECTION TO DEPUTY. Mr J. Horn (Wakatipu) supported the amendment to the Address, holding that the Prime Minister should attend the Imperial Conference, but that Parliament should, nevertheless, meet at the usual time. Mr 33. J. Howard (Christchurch South): It would mean a break-up in the Prime Minister’s own party. Mr Horn: Oh, no. Mr Howard: There was one last time. Mr Horn: Well, it might not be a bad thing if there was a break-up. (Laughter.) He adsolutelv objected, he added, to a member of "another (the Legislative Council) being head of the Ministry while Mr Massey was away. Much as he admired Sir Francis Bell, he contended that it would not be fair to the House nor to 'the country for him to be acting-Prime Minister. Mr Horn said that the telegrams in that morning’s paper showed that the vital question of the defence of the Dominions was going to be brought up at the Imperial Conference: and, reading between the lines, one could see that it meant millions upon millions of expenditure. He held, therefore, that it was most important that the Dominion should.be adequately represented at the conference, and Mr Massey was the roan to represent us. (Hear,, hear.) "SLUR ON MINISTRY.” Dr Thacker (Christchurch East) complimented both the mover and seconder of the Address on their’ speeches, saying that while Mr Craigie seemed to be somewhat restless so far as parties were concerned, he was nevertheless an identity and would remain such sc long as he was a member of the House. (Hear, hear.) He agreed that the Prime Minister should attend the conference, but said that it was a slur on the Ministry and on the country to suppose that Parliament could not carry on during his absence. The Hon. D. H. Guthrie, for examole, would make an excellent act-ing-Prime Minister. He strongly opposed a member of the Upper House holding that position, as was at present proposed. The present Prime Minister was an autocrat, a dictator. His party was sitting over there dumb, hypnotised or anaesthetised. If they were to speak and say what they knew to be the truth, they would have to answer to the power behind the throne—the big landowners and others: and they dare not say a word. (Laughter.) A Labour member: They have had nothing to answer yet. (Laughter.) Dr Thacker: T don’t know about that. Mr Howard : They are waiting for labour. (Laughter.) The largo landowners, added Dr Thacker, were not farmers, but "farmers of the farmer," so when they found a man to their mind thev established the so-called Reform Partv and put, along with the big company-owners, and the big merchants, their money into its coffers to put that party in power and ke«D it in power; and the members of that party had to obey their behests. The Hon. A. T. Nlgata (Eastern Maori) said he supported the amendment moved by the Leader of the Opposition. The nio»t responsible man in the country was the Prime Minister, and we should have as our representative at the conference one who could speak for the majority of the people of the country. He knew Mr Massey would ably represent Now Zealand. “BEATING THE AIR.” Mr R. McCallum (Wairau) said that be did not intend to keep the House long. It seemed to him to be beating the air. Thev knew that the Prime Minister had got a majority who would send him to

Loudon whatever they on the Opposition Benches might say. (Hear, hear and laughter on the Reform Benches.) sometimes envied - the Prime Minister and it was vrtwben “the diligent man shall stand belore kings. He shall not stand before mean men.” (Laughter.) He twitted the Prime Minister on getting to London just in (time for the season. Mr Massey : When does the season begin? (Laughter.) „ _ Mr McCallum approved of the Prime Minister leaving his affaire in the hands of Sir Francis Bell so for as the latter s personal qualifications were concerned. But the difficulty was that Sir Francis Bell could not lead the House of Representatives ; -and he, therefore, thought that the Prime Minister would have d°no better to leave his senior Minister in The Representative Chamber as acting-Prime Minister. The prorogation of larliament till later in the year meant that the Parliament of 1919 would not do any effective business. There would be too much of a rush for it to do effective business. Yet there was very much effective business to he done. The country had a strenuous time in front or it, He would not say that we were on the verge of a financial panic; hut he was glad that the banks were checking the operations of the land speculators and the lang agents. It was not before it was time. He had opposed previously sending Home the two best men in Parliament and leaving Sir James Allen in charge. It was, he was sure, bad economy. For the country’s good during the war Sir Joseph Ward had sacrificed his position as head: of the greatest historic party in the history of New Zealand to became the Prime -Miui6'ter’’s riglit-baßcl man, or chief lieutenant; and had thereby 'cnie-ified his party. (Hear, hear and Labour and Heform laughter.) He euggested that Sir Joseph Ward, tiro greatest Imperialist New Zealand had produced, and.already on the spot, should represent New Zealand on the Imperial Conference. He did not intend that as any reflection, on the Prime' Minister, who, apart from the fact that he was a faithful trustee of certain vested interests, had rendered very excellent service to the country. A member: Vosjy’s interests? Mr McCallum: No. not "Vesty’s”; but "vested.” (Laughter.) He must be a faithful trustee to them, because they put him there. (Laughter.) Mr McCallum suggested that Sir James Allen, whom he described as a- tt-ue Imperial--Ist, should be associated with Sir Joseph Ward in representing the Dominion. “PARTY BEFORE COUNTRY.” He charged that the solidarity of the Reform or Massey party was more to the Prime Minister than the welfare of the Dominion. That was why he would, not let Parliament ait in his absence. They knew what had happened last tune he was away. ... % Mr Howard: Oh. don’t rake it up! (Laughter.) . „ . . Mr McCallum urged the Prime Minister to rise above party, to let Sir Joseph Ward attend the conference in his place, and to let Parliament open not later, but even earlier than usual. PREMIER DENIES THE CHARGE. NON-RJEPRESEN’TATIVEi ACTINGPREMIER. Mr Massey denied that he put the interests of party before country. Mr McCallum: Yes, slightly before oountry. Mr Massey gave the suggestion, an emphatic denial. As to the proposal to leave Sir Francis Bell as acting-Prime Minister, he said that on various occasions the Prime Minister, both at Homo and here, had not been in the Representative House. Sir Frederick Whittaker and (jhe late Lord Salisbury were cases In point. Mr McCallum: Very ancient history. Lord Salisbury, too, very ancient. (La ughter J There was also Dr. Pollen in New Zealand, said Mr Massey, and a third case in point. „ Dr. Newman (Wellington East): Mr Waterhouse. Mr Massey. Yes, Mr Waterhouse. Mr McCallum : About the time of the flood, wasn’t itP (Laughter.) Mr Massey said that there was, therefore, plenty of precedents for the course he proposed . . ~ . , A Labour member: But is it nght P Mr Massey: Absolutely right! ("Oh, oh,” "hear, hear.” and laughter.) He added that Mr Guthrie would lead the House in his absence. He expected to get back in September next; but he proposed that the House should meet before then, and get through the Address-in-Reply, and private member’s days, and so on, so that as soon as he returned it might get straight on with the more important business. (Hear, hear.) Mr Wilford: That is the first we have heard of it. (Hear, hear.) Mr Massey said that he had mentioned it before, he believed. , PRIME MINISTER SPEAKS. HIS IDEAS OF EMPIRE. FAVOURS IMPERIAL EXECUTIVE. The galleries were full when, at about 8 pan., the Prime Minister rose to speak. He congratulated the mover and the seconder of the address. Mr_ Williams had made a good speech, and “as for my old friend Mr Craigie he made the speech I expected him to make. ’ (Laughter.) A member; Did he dance to your pip* member: Did you write his speech ' Mr Massey: Mr Craigie does not need anyone to write a speech for him. • . He can make as good a patriotic speech as anyone. , Mr Vigor Brown: And can sing God Save the King.” A member: That is more than soma others here can do! Another member: More than they “will” do. _ . Mr Holland: Any old profited- will sing it when it euits him. Mr Massey said Dr Thacker had suggested that the Government bought land for soldiers from the Government & friends, and paid too high a price for it, thereby 'favouring their friends. He tusked Dr Thacker to supply the names if he knew any such cases. Dr Thacker: I will give you the names to-morrow. Still on the subject of land, Mr Massey said that a change had come about and land values had dropped. In n.aJny cases the Government land valuation was not useful as the values were out of date and it was impossible to keep them up-to-date. However, the best had been don©, atud poopl© should rofrain from di&couraging the men who had gone on the land. Mr Horn had raised a question of the price of gold, and he would bring the question before the Imperial authorities, and if any unjnstioe had. been, aone ho would endeavour to get it rectified THE “NAUGHTY BOY” AND THE CANE. Mr Massey: Now, we come to Mr Malcolm , , , A member: The naughty boy. A Liberal« He’s going to get the cane. Mr Massey: There has been a prodigal eon before. A member: Is be back already" Mr Fraser: He may be a prodigal Massey: Mav be a prodigal gvand°Be had been surprised to hear Mr Mal-

colm say the constitution was written It was not, and he quoted Sir William Alison, D.C.L., who said it had never been written. Mr Wilford: That refers to England. Mr Massey: It is no use quibbling , The inagna charta, the Bill of Rights, etc. (which had been mentioned by interjectors) were all important reforms, embodying very important principles, but they were not the constitution. Mr J. A. Hanan -. They are the Bible of the Constitution. Mr Massey: I hope before long wo will have a written constitution for tho Empire. He referred to the great change that took place when the war was on when two representatives from New- Zea, land weie present at the Impei'bi! Conference and the opening of thc_ Imperial Cabinet, which was far more important that the conference itself. At the imperial Cabinet the representatives of the Dominion sat with tho Imperial representatives, and had an equal say with them. Tiro Hon. 3. A. Hanan: That gave you a new- status. _ Mr Massey: It did. We were partners in the Empire, and we are partners today. Someone had said something about party Government. Party Government was alright here, but he could not imagine it in the .other sphere. Many supported the Imperial Parliament idea at first, but would New Zealand allow itself to be taxed by a Parliament sitting in London? Dr Pomare: There, would be another Boston Tea Party. Mr Massey said he had' once asked Mr -Lloyd George what he thought of the Imperial Parliament idea, and he had said : “We don’t want another. Bosfen Tea Party.” ' Mr Malcolm -. Boston was not represented. AN IMPERIAL EXECUTIVE. As to his going to the conference, when the telegram arrived be placed it before Cabinet and Cabinet decided unanimously that it was his duty to go. Iff it had decided otherwise he would not have gone and the House could decide otherwise if it liked. ( A Reform member: You will go all right! There were plenty of things he could attend to if he went Home. ' There was the wool trouble, respecting which he thought he could do some good as he had been in touch with the matter from tha start. • Then there was the financial trouble, which was not onlv a New Zea, land trouble, but a general one. If it was possible for us to raise a loan at a reasonable rate of interest we ought to do it- It was a good thing for us we had a good reserve in the Consolidated Fund. Whether we were able to carry on public works depended on whether we secured a loan. A member: You don’t propose to raise another loan in New Zealand? Mr Massey. No. It will be raised in London. Mr Glenn.- What about the meat position ? Mr Massey eaid he did not think there was much wrong with the meat market. He thought the market was going to rise. The latest quotations he had were that light mutton and lamb were selling at the maximum price. Referring to the suggestion that someone else should be our representative at the conference, he said that this was a conference ofl Prime Ministers. The time was coming soon when there would he a recognised organisation respecting Imperial affairs. He believed in an Imperial Executive, the Prime Minister of E-t gland to be at the head, and other Ministers to be chosen by him. He believed if we worked on those lines and looked to a strong and united Empire we would be bound to do a certain amount ■sf good. He hoped some definite arrangement would be made about tha periodical meeting of the executive. Per* serially he thought it should meet every two years, unci be thought the time would come when it would meet every year. We were partners in the Empire on the understanding that the autonomy of the Dominion was not to lie interfered with by any other Dominion. A declaration or war, or the making of peace, should be the business of the executive. We heard much about the League of Nations, but our first duty was the defence of the Empire. He did not believe England would over attack any country, but slie would defend herself and her Allies. He hoped there would bo no more war, but we knew there would be, and he might say that if there was one country more than another he hoped we would keep at peace with it was America. It was our first duty to prexiare for our defence, and we might ask ourselves if our forts here were adequate. We knew they were not. Mr Fraser: What difference does the League of Nations make? BUSINESS SHOULD GO ON. Mr H. Atmore (Nelson) strongly supported tho amendment to the address, if tho debate on the amendment had served no other purpose it had rendered very good service-, at all events, by obtaining from the Prime Minister tho statement whioh he had just given as to the reasons why he should attend the Imperial Conference. (Hear, hear.) That statement, he contended, the Prime Minister should have made when Parliament first met, if not. indeed, when he first announced that Parliament would be called together. (Hear, hear.) He offered no objection to the Prime Minister going Home; but he contended that the business of the country should be ried on and not held over fill his return. Whoever heard of a big business closing its doors because the head of the firm was going abroad P (Hear, hear and laughter.) We had not yet reached the height of the financial difficulty, and everybody knew that serious labour trouble had lately only been narrowly averted, and if might at any time arise. Parliament should be in session to meet all emergencies Mr Massey: Did. you over know of Parliament preventing a -strike? You know Vhat. happened in 1913 P Mr Atmore: Yes; and I don’t want it to happen again, (Hear, hear.) Mr Massey: Nor do I. (Hear, hear.) Mr Atmore added tha-t he would not say it was inviting trouble to prorogrue Parliament for so long, but it was certainly not preparing to meet it if it arose. (Hear, hear.) Nine-tenths of the people of New Zealand would agree with him that the Prime Minister should attend tho Imperial Conference; and ho believed that nine-tenths of them would also join with him in emphatically protesting against Parliament being prorogued so long in, view of the grave problems now confronting the Dominion. (Applause.)

LONG PROROGATION OPPOSED. Mr G. Witty (Riocarton) strongly opposed the lengthy prorogation of Parliament. Mr Guthrie was quite capable of conducting the business of the country, and he (Mr Witty) would guarantee that nobody—or scarcely anybody—on the Liberal or Labour Benches would try to upset the Government white the Prime Minister was away. _ He had been strongly against the business of the country not being canned on all the same last time Mr Massey and Sir Joseph Ward went Home. He believed that the Prime Minister was afraid of his Dwn party. Only throe members of the Cabinet were -real loyalists. Three or four other had kicked over the traces while Mr Massey was away, and had only eome within the- traces again when thev were given Cabinet rank. (‘Oh! amt laughter.) He believed they would be all right now. (Laughter.) He asked why the Government dare not give him the amount of the Government valuations of the la-nd purchased for soldier settlement. He knew that in eome cases thousands of pounds had been mnde on land thus purchased. Mr Massey: T know of a private Individual who sold land valued at £9 an acre to The Government at J 829 an acre. Mr Witty -. And there are wore* cases than that. He declared that the Government paid too much for the land, and that owing to the low price of produce it would now have -to write of! four millions of what it had naid. If the Government had borrowed the money for , land purohase. Instead of collaring the

accumulated surpluses, they -would not have Inflated land values as they had done; and they would still have had the seventeen millions as a stand-by in the time of financial difliculty. (Hear, hear.) Mr J. Bdie (Bruce) supported the amendment; and suggested that when Mr Massey went Home he should see to the establishment of retail as well as wholesale shops for the distribution of New Zealand meat. On a division being; taken the amendment was defeated by 39 votes to 25. THU DIVISION LIST. The division list reads:— For fc'he amendment (25)Atmore, Bartram, Edie, Forbes, Fraser, Hanan, Holland. Horn. Howard, Isitt, Jennings, Kellett. McCombs, Masters, Mitchell. Fiirrv, Savage, .Seddon, Sidey, S. G Smith, Statham, Sullivan, Veitch, Wilford. Witty. Against the amendment (39): —Anderson Bifchener, Bollard, Brown, Burnett. Coates, Cia.’gie, J. S- Dickson, Field Glenn, Guthrie. A. Hamilton, J. JR. Hamilton. Harris. Hawken, Hocitiev, Hunter, Jones, Lee, Luke, Lysnar, McLeod. McNieol, Mander, Massey, Nash, A. K. Newman, Nosworthy, Farr, Pomare, Potter, E. H. E.hodes, T. W. Rhodes, Stewart, Sykes, Uru, Williams, Wright, Young. Pairs For the amendment: Nigata, R. W. Smith, Thacker, and McCallum. Against the amendment: Tau Henare, E. Newman, Campbell, and Herries.

At 11 o'clock the House adjourned till 10.30 this morning.