HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXII, Issue 7301, 3 December 1910, Page 6

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

NEARING. THE SESSION'S END. ~ ? LIBEL BILL PASSED. Tho House of Representatives cmirinnocl to consider the 1.-bol Law A Die mlmont Bill after the “New Zealand Hines” went, to press yesterday morning. Several members said that too prreat rowers were si von to magistrates in hearin" eases, and deciding whether they should he dealt with summarily. Sir Joseph' "Ward ■ said' the clause enabled poor people to take action. Mr WiiCord said that no greater powers ’ wodld ' bp; given , than. . existed now. . : The clause l iras’,'retained by 26 votes to 23. - r A' , The Bill,was reported.. Air Pisher divided the House on. the third reading of the Bill, remarking that it was an unsatisfactory measure. The Bill was read a third time by 3S votes to G. 'COAL MINES In oartha-, Goal Mines Bill, the House divided ’on the Hon. A. E. Guinness's olrArkd giving power to. the Minister to make; regulations for the sanitation of all mines, and' it was carried bv 3G votes to 21. The House rose, at 3.30 a.m., adjournIng until 11 a.m. MORNING SITTING THTKD BEADING. The Hotise of Representatives met at 11 a-ra.; when the .Waihou and Chinemari Rivers -Improvement BUI was_put *throu"h committee, read a third time, -And passed. The measure gives. • legislative effect to.,the recommendations of a Royal Commission for dealing wrfh the jilting of these rivers.

mm PAEM SETTLEMENTS . Tho Fruit Farms Settlements Bill was , ea d a second time on the motion of the Hon T. "Mackenzie (Minister of'lmcaltnre) who said it had special reference to Woerenga, in the Waikato, where an area of orchard was ready for subdivision. : ■ ■ Mi- Massey suggested, that the Gov- * eminent was getting rid of the lauds bocauso' it could not make a profit.; How, therefore, could it expect private individuals to do so? In committee, Mr A. W. Hogg faded By 13 votes to 12 in an attempt to secure that the fruit lands should only be disposed of on tho leasehold tenure. Tho Bill ■ was read a third time and passed. 1 MUNICIPAL' C.OEPOEATIONS In moving that the House agree with, the aoneiultn-eiits made by the Legislative - Counoil .in the Municipal Corporations \ot 'Amendment Bill, tho Eon Mr Buddo • ex plain ed that the first amendment, was that 'uiggested by the member for Christchurch North in connection with tho traffic: the second was that of the member for Chalmers, making provision for a loan to be raised -by a county for any portion of a borough that might be m■'eluded in a county; and the third proddpcl for the appointment by local authorities of special constables. There had been omitted from the Bill proviso™ for municipa-l ’ authorities dealing with insanitary ; dwellings, the present machinery having been found defective.; It wnrt hoDedV however, to effectively • provide for Vthte in an : amendment of' the Public Health Act next session Tho amendments wero agreed to. THE, AEBITEATION ACT TECmmCALITTES TO BB OVERCOME. A brief amendment to tie Conciliation end Arbitration Act was brought down JatiXGffvernor’s. message last night.

The Minister of Labour (Hon. J. A. Millar) said that the amendments, proflowed to allow the Court to waive any ti'chnic-alily or omi-Mon. and proceed with u case so lon:,' ns the main provisions of idie Act had fieon complied with, in addifon. it constituted the president of tho Arbitration Court a Supremo Court Judge, but priority to tho duties imposed , on Kim. as President <i the Arbitration. "Court. It was also provided that the judge without the consent of the Governor-in-Council could hot resign °nc position without also resignin'* tho other.

PUBLIC WORKS DEBATED MOKE ABOUT THE FIVE MILLION LOAN. Speaking to a motion to go into committee on tim Public Works Estimates, Mr Massey (leader of the Opposition) said ho considered the Government's pro-{jo.-al.-i regarding tho development of water-power were reckless and extravagant in the extreme. Pari.ainerit was unfairly asked, without be'ng given details. to lake a leap into t'iie dark. The only example of such a scheme in New Zealand was Waipori. which was not yet paying. His inquiries showed that in connection with tho energy developed at Niagara, tho transmission losses were so great that twenty-five miles away it was cheaper to use coal. Why were tne local bodies not allow’ed to develop their local schemes. *

From a financial point of view, the reception of ■ tho Dominion's ~ five-million loan was tho most serious rebuff tho Dominion had ever experienced. Tho IMiuo Minister: That is not thei opinion in England,Mr Massey: It: is a serious state of thing.-; when tho Tasmanian three nnd n-haif per cents aro at 00, that ours arc 06 in spite .of the) fact that a half year's interest is duo on thwni. The Prime Minister: How is it that tho financiers took them at .£93 IDs?

Mr Massey: think it is my duty to call attention to tho fact that five millions was far to much to place 1 on tho London loan market at, any one time. It is a difficult job for the Opposition to keep the- Government, straight, and keep it from ruining the country. The idea seems to.' be to' get c-omothiug for' nothing, mortgage the country as heavy as possible, and lot posterity take care of itself; but if we follow that course all tho lessons and theories of political economy go for nothing. Ho urged tho necessity of finishing tho Strntford-Ongarue railway, and carrying out construction from, both ‘ ends. The lino would pay .from tho first day. Ho was glad to have the Minister’s assurance 'that tho AVaiuku line would appear in the next Authorisation Bill* An unusaUy largo amount of money was being voted during the year, 'and he was afraid too much would be thrown away on electrical schemes. THE PRIME MINISTER

PROSPECTS OF WATER POWER UTILISATION. Tho Prime Aliuirlrer (Sir Joseph Ward) replied that the leader of the Opposition, arguing simply . from , the Waipori scheme, thought the country was taking a leap in the dark in regard to water power. The Government fully recognised that caution and the best expert advice was concerned, but a certain, amount, of risk had always.to.be undertaken in regard to any big wort. If this risk had not been taken before, there would bo no railways,’ telegraxjhs. telephones, or Government advances to settlers in New Zealand. Ho was convinced that if public companies in other parts of the world could pay a profit, the Government with careful management could do as well, and at the same time cheapen the cost of . power tothe consumer. He- had seen the power plants at Niagara, having them explained to him on the spot Instead of being unsuccessful, as Air Massey implied, tho companies had , such tremen- ■ doits custom that a strong movement had grown up to ensure that no farther concession for power should he granted l in connection with Niagara. He believed that as the result, of .the . actual operation of a scheme —and in his opinion the first should he Lake Coleridge—the country would insist upon the utilisation of other water powers, carried on prudently and cautiously, so as to provide cheaply for the people tho finest motive power 'that could ho obtained. To suggest that it was cheaper to produce power by st.eam than by , the natural source now running to waste, was a mistake. THE LOAN. The leader of tho Opposition had seriously warned tho Government in regard to the last loan, but he thought Mr Massey was unfortunate in his expression.; Tho country had every, reason, to he satisfied with the result of flotation. When the loan .was floated the Bank of England discount rate stood at 5 per ■ cent... and that day he had. a communication from the Old Country stating that,the bank rate was -1J per cent. Our loan had been taken up at A 33 10s. and not at .£96 as persistently stated by one newspaper writer. It was also untrue that the ißank .of New Zealand had underwritten the loan. It' had . never been asked to do sol Everything was done in London, and if the Bank of New Zealand had taken a portion of it, as might be possible, it must he a. very small amount indeed, hut it had not been taken up at his request. At any rate, the Bank of New Zealand’s share could not possibly be more than -£IOO,OOO. He ppKlomaJly would not have been agreeable, even if. the hank wanted to underwrite a loan to the extent of five million. In the minds of some of the greatest financial houses in London they looked upon New Zealand as so satisfactory that When the Bank of England rate was 5 per cent, it underwrote our loan at 31 per cent.; AOS 10s, and from evorr standpoint he thought that was not only very satisfactory, hut he was doubtful if any other country putting such a loan on the market could have done better. This: country had nothing to regret with regard to the loan. Our finances had now been fixed for a period of \twelvo months ahead, which ho thought was a very fine thing indeed. He personally had discussed with two or three leading financial men when last in London going on the market for a big loan and how it would he l received. Tbev told him that a two million loan would not ho so satisfactory as one foi throe or four million. At 'that time he had foreseen tho necessity of a large loan. With the unloading following the flotation of the five million loan, anyone who expected that there would not be a temporary depression in our 3) per cents, expected the impossible. Mr Hern'cs said he quite agreed with the contention that it was. unwise to discuss the five million loan until they knew the full details from the English papers and- were able to compare other loans floated at tho same time, but he confessed it came as a shock to him, that the underwriters should have to take probably the bulk of the loan. He thought it would he far better if, as soon ns all the details came out. the cost of flotation were laid on the table of the House, ns used to he done up to a fiv.vyears ago. ROAD REQUIREMENTS. . Mr A. w. Hogg (Masterton) urged that the immediate necessities were roads and bridges, If there was to. he a scramble he did not blame members for getting all they could. Settlement had gone hack in'portions of his electorate because the reading was absolutely inadequate. If the King Country had not been i handed over to speculators it would be a flourishing scene, of close settlement, but it had been massacred. The Roads Department was being starved. The Hon. R. McKenzie: Wo are spending more money than ever. Air Hogg replied that not a shilling was spent in his electorate last year upon roads. Mr R. B. Ross (Paluatua) said that although his district -possessed! a good

source of water power, he would net complain that it hud.’ fur a time been overlooked.

Mr J. l\ Luke (Wellington Suburbs) congratulated the Mayor of Wellington upon his admirable statement (publiahcd elsewhere) regarding hy<h'o-cdectric power; His personal opinion was that Wellington city would bo doing right in accepting j;owcr from the Government at .C 6 of a penny, or a little over a halfpenny per unit.

-Mr G. V. Pearce (Patea) declared that only half the road votes of last year were spent, though the Government overspent its allocation for the worthless Midland Kailway. Mr W. T. Jennings (Taumarunui) considered the abolition of the Roads Depaitmcnt a .sad blunder. The estimates were fair, and he only hoped they would bj actually spent, Mt T. E. Taylor (Clmstchurch North) deiendod Mr L. Dirks' report upon the water-power schemes proposed to be carried out. stating tnat the criticism "was hastily prepared and would bo regarded by any competent tribunal as practically worLhlo.-s. lie believed the country was quite safe in going on. An engineer of wido experience had told him only that ailcvnecn that consumption by tho Wellington Corpora than alone would guarantee a profit on tho ilutt scheme, while arising out of the provision of cheap power would bo an increased demand for energy. lie hoped tho Government would carry out the construction of tho works by clay labour, so that contractors’ p.ofits would be saved. He had great faith in Mr Dirks’ estimates. That gentleman was tho estimating engineer for tho- Christchurch tramways, aud carried put his. work with such remarkable accuracy that there was no margin, though the expenditure reached £260,600. THE MINISTER’S REPLY. The Minister of Public Works. (Hair. R. McKenzie) stated that eight inontng of the financial year were oyer, and a good deal of the money allocated had been spent. Out of £l2(j,too - voted ior roads last year, £361,000 had been actually spent, and out of this £72,379went into Taumarunui electorate. Mr Massey would probably bp astonished to know that in five years*■£38,-167 had beeipspent in his own electorate > on toads. Last year's expenditure, in Franklin was £10,781. The tot-a 1- expenditure on public works last year'was the fourth rlargest recorded. _ He was surprised to find members objecting to The amalgamation, of tire Roads Department with, the Public Works Department, : because this step saved the country £30,000. It was useful 'for local bodies'going;, in for small power schemes, because it was necessary to proceed on a plan involving large extensions. The most competent electrical engineer in New Zealand, who had gone through Mt Birk’s estimates, had told him that if they erred at all, it was on the conservative side, so that the Government would be perfectly safe in accepting his advice.

IN COMMITTEE DETAILED EXPLANATIONS. The House went into Committee of Supply on the Public Works Estimates. Mr Herries asked the Minister, alter his> year’s • experience with regard to public works, whether he was satisfied with tho ariangements made for conibin,iiig the Ronds Department with the Public Works Department? Also whether he was satisfied with the system of grants to local bodies whilst at the same time saddling the local bodies with engineering ami other expenses? Mr Ross, in supporting a complaint by Mr Buchanan regarding administration. by the' Roads Department _ through its merging with the Public Works Department, claimed that tho change in system had led, to income used cost of administration, because local bodies did not have the requisite staff, and tho dep%:t« mental engineer adopted the policy of the Irish schoolmaster- —‘'urging the aisy ones, helping the lazy ones/'’etc. a Mr Pearce regretted the abolition of tho system of allowing local bodies the right to deduct 10 per cent, for expenses out of votes. This -was unfair to districts .where land was sold under the Bush and Swamp. Lands Act, where no local bodies were in existence, and the money foa* engineering expenses had to b© found by people who received no benefit therefor. , . ; - ... WATER POWER.

• In committee on the Water Power Estimates, for which, a sum of <£300,000 was proposed to be Voted, the leader of the Opposition said if he received an assurance that the money was to be spent on one scheme only, for the start, he would be satisfied. Otherwise he desired an explanation. The Minister said; that as soon a*s the session closed ,he intended to appoint a Government’ officer to ascertain what quantity of electricity could be sold in Chriistchurohi .and if there was a suitable market it was proposed to develop Lake Coleridge'. . . Investigations were meanwhile going on in regard to the market for other installations. At this stage the’Minister's voice was drowned by, expressions of approval from Opposition members.

, Mr Massey said he was' glnd. have the explanation, as it would satisfy him and others who were alarmed at the pro'Posrvl to spend half a million yearly fd+hout previous experience. . The vote was passed. GOVERNMENT HOUSE ; THE COST OF BUILDINGS. AVhen tho vote for Government' House was under consideration in committee on the Public Works Estimates, Mr F. M. B. Fisher asked if the Minister would make a statement as to the cost of the additional land that had been purchased, ile believed that it had cost * about *£lo,ooo. He saw ‘ that .£25,000 had.been voted and spent last year, ; and this : ycar the vote was *£30,000. He moved the reduction of tho amount by .£l. ’ ! . Mr Massey asked whether .the cost of the* additional land was included in the <£25..0D0 last year.

The Minister of Public AVbrks (Hon. E. McKenzie) said the total cost of Government House up to September 27th had been .£53,427, including XIO,OOO for Land-and many other items, including the removal of the bid mentiai hospital. Mr Fisher:.Does that include furnishing? ./ ’ i: V . .. ‘: 3 The Minister: That includes furnishing and everything. , : 1 Sir Fisher said he would 1 like to ; know how it was that the estimate had been <£25,000 and the expenditure *£33,000. The Minister said the actual cost .of tho buildings had V been '*£26,847, / very close to the estimate, and the larger sum had been made up'i'of other items. Str Fisher then agreed to withdraw hie amendment.

In reply to Mr Mpssey tho Minister said that the house had been fully furnished for , some time, and that he understood the drainage was now satisfactory. THE GROUNDS.

Mr Pearce moved a reduction of the vote by £2 as an indication that the expenditure upon the house and grounds vras wasteful and extravagant, when the old'site was available.; ■ • - ■ The Minister said the protestations and heroics sounded all very well, but mem* hera must recollect that when the old Parliament-House was burned down Hie old Government House -was the only avallablo ' place for the ■ Legislaturo • to 1 inert in.- -There was no escape from the position. The new vice-rrgal residence was eminently suitable for its nnrpose. and was probably the hest building of the kind in the-Southern Hemisphere. Mr J. P. I/uko declared that Government House was a good job on a .splendid site. ■ _ The discussion which ensued followed on exactly the linos of those which have taken place at intervals during the session. -* What is wrong with-the site?" asked

Mr Luke, when one critic was speaking. "It’s a smokv hole,” was the reply. The reduction was negatived by 36 votes lo 23.

TO MOVE PARLIAMENT,

AN AMBITIOUS PROJECT. On the vote of £20,000 on account ol hew Parliamentary Buildings, Mr Lauicnsou moved a £1 reduction as an indb cal'i;:n that the House is of opinion that beL-re spending money on Government Buildings in Wellington an inquiry a’rculd be made as to the cost of a suitable cite where u now A'ity oau be established, the cost or moving the heads of Government depaitments .and erecting Government buildings, and the probable revenue which- would accrue from leasing portions of the capital site and the Government land vacated in Wellington.

Mr Laurensou appealed. to the Prime Minister not lo make it a party queslion. He put down the total cost of establishing the new city at AJ7CO,OOO, and believed that the ground rents in Wei* lington and the new site would, more than pav iho whole cost. The whole world was agog with town-planning, but Wellington was too awkward to improve. He bel'evod that the place for the new building was in the North Island and he appealed to tho House not to sanction further expense without inquiry. Tho Prime Minister replied that if the report was ever obtained it would bo pigeon-holed, for the reason that the hands of tho clock could not be back. Hundreds of thousands of pounds had been spent on the accessories of government in Wellington, and hundreds of homes of civil servants had been prosided in that city. If it was a straightout question of-moving-the capital, there was a majority against it, and he hoped members’ oars would not be 'tickled by the idea of getting a report. By 30 votes to 23 the amendment was rejected. . DEPARTMENTAL BUILDINGS. Replying to Mr D. McLaren, the Minister said that the present congestion at the Printing Office would be relieved somewhat when the new General Post Office was up. It was impossible,to provide morfe accommodatm at the present building in view. of the very big building programme at present in nand in U ellingtoh- - Mr i'islier was informed that .the new Parliament House would be put up in sections and uouul posaioly luKe-texi or twelve years to. complete, v present building would be turned into departmental offices. Inquiry was mad© by Mr Herdman whether-the-Government intended to do away with the present big departmental building on Lambton quay. . Any move from, tne present site would be a very big blunder. The-Minister did not reply.

Discussing the votes for new police sta-. tions, Mr Herries'said it appeared that Wellington wps mopping up the whole lot, but was informed that the expenditure was justified. The Hon. D. Buddo stated, in reply to a query, that the Cambridge Sanatorium was working quite smoothly. , STOKE INDUSTRIAL SCHOOL. Mr J. P. Luke sought, details of tlio vote of «£12,000 for the Stoke Industrial School. He asked if the Government intended to purchase the institution and incorporate it with the State system*

The Minister said that the money was required to provide additional accommodation. The trustees had offered the institution to the Government, and the Government had taken and would manage it in future as an undenominational school. The total amount to be paid for it was *619.137. The debate was proceeding when the "Times'* went to press.