THE GAMING LAW.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXIX, Issue 6383, 4 December 1907, Page 9

THE GAMING LAW.

bookmakers dissatisfied

OF JUCINO CT/FTiS

MIN rSTKR TNT BRVIKWR!>.

Tho Mirrster of Internal Affairs. Ton. Dr Findhay, c-as in forviov/ed

fastorday morning by Jar;g* dr-puta-tif»n rojirfseming thn bf-rokmakors of N'ow Zealand in connection with the recent gaining logidatkm and ita interpretation by certain raring cluks. Mr Scold, of Scott and MarUndale, Wellington, said they desired to I‘rongly protist aga nsfc the arbitrary tbtbudo baleen up by the Feildnig Jockey (hdj in not complying with tbn iso 3f5 of tho (diming and Ix>ttoncs \cb Amfuid/nxm t Act, 1007 :

Efrciry racing chib which is authorised to use tho totalisatpr shall from fcimo to time, on the application of any person who is in tho opinion of tho committee or other managing body of such club a lit and proper person to bo so licensed, grant a license to such pni-.-on to enter on any racecourse used or occupied bj' such club, ami (here to carry on business as a bookmaker, etc. To tho minds of Mm deputation, said Mr Scott, tho Fcilding Club had violated that spirit of fairness which was the object of the Legislature, and they ormtended Unit tho dub’s action uiii.iiiiil.i d to a boycott. They asked tl:o .Minister to issue a mandate in t,lio rao ng elnlvi to administer clause 3d in the spirit in which it was intended by the Government. 'The cbnrginc <,f ISO a day for a bookmaker’s clock, as well as £2O for the bookmaker, was, they maintained, out of all reason. Tlio Wondville Joekey (Tub intended following _in the same Btejy, taken by tho Teil di ng Club. A ele; k liad absolutely nothing to do with the making of a wngor; it meant that every bookmaker would be charged CIO a day, instead of a fee “not exc oed'ng £2O per day,” an provided by tho Act-,

THE FBILDING JOCKEY CLUB. Dr Findlay: You say tho Foilding Jockey Club asked £2O a day for a clerk ns well? Mr Scott: Yes. Here is thevr agreement ns advert! red nn Friday last;—^ 1. No bookmaker’s clerk will bo admitted to the racecourse unless licensed.

G. No holder of a bookmaker’s license shall carry on hia calling as a bookmaker except upon that portion of the racecourse specially sot aside for that purpose, and in respect of which ho is specially li-

censed. 8. No bookmaker shall be allowed upon the lawn or grandstand. 4. No bookmaker shall make a bet on any race later than five minutes

before the advertised time of starting such race. 5. Any bookmaker making a breach of these conditions, or of the Gaming and Lotteries Act shall bo liable to have his license cancelled, and in the event thereof ho shall not bo onti’lod to a refund of any p<u tiou of his license fee, and, in addition thereto, shall bo liable to bo expelled from the racecourse.

Mr Scott complained that tho bookmakors considered they had not beer treated fairly by the Feildimr Club in being placed in an objectionable poaß’on near the latrines. Dr Findlay; Do you know of your own knowledge that the site was not reasonable? Voices: Yes; yes. Dr Findlay; I am strongly of opinion that hotting should bo confined to some appropriate part of the course On the other hand, I quite recognise tho whole thing may bo made a. farce, and that a chib may insist upon a pbicn 100 far away, or such a position as would ho of no use to you. Mr Scott: We don’t wish to bet in front of tho lawn so long as wo’rc i" i part of the paddock. At Foilding we word roped in in an enclosure Oft by »ft. v Rending from'' tlho Foilding Jockov Chib’s rnco-book, Mr Scott, referring to that chib’s rule. “No bookmaker shall make a bet on any race later than five minutes before tbo advertised time of starting such race.” pointed out that tho programme did nob state the actual starting time at all, but only tbo word "abont ; ” Dr Findley: That is not compliance With the law. Mr Scott: The first day they distinctly stated tho starting time: the second day they altered the book and stated "about.” Dr Findlay; “About” may moan any-thing—half-nn-hour before or afterwards. Mr Scott: Wo were also excluded as when we refused to pay £4O. We paid one sliding, but were immediately detected bv the police. Dr Findlay; Von had bettor keep strictly to your character as bookmakers and fight it out on that; not as oivi liana. THE FEES CHARGED. Mr Scott: Wo suggest that tho foes charged by the clubs previous to the. passing of tho Act of 1907 would bo reasonable and fair. Dr Findlay; What wore they ? Mr Scott; Auckland charged £SO, and then raised it to £75 a year; Avondalo four guineas and Tafcapuna four guineas a day. At Flcmington, whore tiro bookmakers have no opposition in tho way of a totalise.tor, tho charge is £75 a year, with thirteen days’ racing. A member of the deputation; We suggest that tho A.J.C., V.R.C., or tho English rules in regard to bookmakers bo followed hero. Wo also object to the Foilding Club or any other chib having power to frame regulations similar to those framed by the Foilding Jockey Club. Dr Findlay: I want to know if Mm bookmakers of tho Dominion are going to honestly and energetically assist tbo Government to carry out this new Act? Air Soott: Wo’ro prepared to do that. Wo havo absolutely shut down since tbo Act came into force. - Dr Findlay: The newspapers say d i (Terentiy. Mr Scott; Now men spring up in tbo business for whom we are not responsible. Dr Findlay: Speaking on behalf of tbo reputable bookmakers, yon absolutely shut down and obey tho law strictly ? Mr Scott: Yes. A SUGGESTION. Mr Barnett (Barnett and Grant, Christchurch): Prior to tbo passing of this Act 75 per cent, of the clubs charged for licenses at £5 5s a day. and that worked out at X per cent, of tho stake money. Working on these linos; Q IStPnld like to suggest that all clubs

charge a f»*o equal to 1 per cent, of their stake money. ,

What sort of fee would

Dr Findlay that produce? Air iiarnctt; For Wellington. £2O a day : arid smaller eluhs from XIIO to .Co a day. There was, one meeting, without the totalisator, at Forhnry, where tiny lined to charge C 7 a day; but there bookmaker.s had no total isator to compete with. Dr Findlay. Arc you speaking on hrlialf of the bookmakers of the South island? . . .

Mr itariK-tt; Wo emloreo what has boon said by -Mr Soott. Yes. OBEDIENCE TO TJIE LAW.

Dr Findlay; Can you srivo mo an assurance ns to tin- ©hod inn on boiiiß si town by lilt' re pit table bookmakers in tho South ?

Mr Harriott; There are different opinions. Or Findlay: It is not a matter or opinion. They aro earryinp; out the spirit of the Act as far as they know it ? Mr Barnett: Yes.

Or Findlay: A groat deal turns upon what attitude you intend to take upon the Act.

Mr Barnett: We can only act on what wo’ro advise*!. We started a card on the Auckland Cup and Railway Handicap, with probably £IOOO risk. In the first place, though having closed down, on reading tne Act wo found there was nothing to prevent us making a “book”; consequently wo sent cards to our clients, that we would carry on straight-out betting as usual. We can find nothing in the Act against it, except in the manner in which we may do it. Of eonrso. we know wo can’t bet in any ollico or rcccivo telegrams, except for the sole purpose of entering up and doing our other business. Wo’ro perfectly prepared to keep to the law in its spirit as well as iu its effect. THE MINISTER IN REPLY. “You have put your position before mo clearly enough,’' replied Dr Findlay. “I want to say at once that you have no right to expect, and you certainly are not going to get any indulgence, from the Government. The attitude of the Government to gaming in all forms, as you doubtless well know, will not permit of any favour being shown to any tendency whatever to gambling. That I.want to make clear to you to begin with.” But having said that, ho wished to make it plain' that the duty of the Government was to see that the law, whether it made in their favour or against them, should bo properly and genuinely carried out. The whole question, therefore, came down to this: What was tho law to-day in Now Zealand? Ho was not going to deal with any quibbling interpretation of the Aot of 1907, nor wan ho go ; ng to deal with suggested evasions. Ho was going to take the intention and purpose of tho Act ns was recognised by everyone who had intelligence enough to read it. RESTRICTING GAMING.' Now, it was quite dear that the Act sought to reduce as far as it could the amount of gambling in this Dominion; it did, in fact, confine betting to the racecourse, He need not go through the different sections which brought that about, but they were aware that by very stringent provisions the paths of the bookmaker were now confined to the racocrureo; and, further, to horse races. So that the calling of the bookmaker in Now Zealand to-day had been limited very much in area, and limited to tho class of betting ho may make. Under clause 34 of the Act— Any racing club may from time to time, with tho approval of tho Governor, make regulations controlling tho admission of persons to any racecourse used or occupied by such club for race meetings. Such regulations may exclude from such racecourse any specified class of persons, either absolutely or subject to such conditions as aro prescribed in tho regulations —clubs which had not got the totalisator wore left with no more power than they had before. There was no power under tho Act that compelled a racing club which owned its own course to grant licenses to bookmakers at all. These dubs could exclude bookmakers absolutely and entirely. The application to licensing bookmakers arose only in cases where a club cam© to the Government and asked to do something on its racecourse which otherwise would be plainly illegal. The application to licensing bookmakers only arose where a olnb asked tho State for a permit to carry on gambling on its own racecourse. A MISUNDERSTANDING. Now, he wanted to emphasise this, because there seemed to be some misunderstanding about it. It was clear that clubs which owned their own ground need not admit bookmakers at all, Tho basis of tiho justification for section 35 of tho Act was this: That, if those clubs came to the Government to ask a license to gamble, to do that which otherwise would be illegal, the State had the right to impose such conditions as it thought fit. If a racing club refused to carry out section 35, this new authority which was given to him as Minister in Charge, to license any such club to use tho totalisator, would not ho granted. Section 46 of tho Act of 1881 made it quite clear that the issue of a totalisator license was entirely within the discretion of tlie Colonial Secretary, and, further, that license itself may bo revoked at any time the Colonial Secretary thought fit, so that a license need not bo granted, and, if granted, may bo revoked if a club did not do its plain duty. REPUTABLE BOOKMAKERS.

Well, now, ho recognised that if tho law was stringently enforced —and stringently enforced it would be —the operations of tho reputable bookmaker wore very much more confined than tbev had ever been in Non- Zealand, and ho recognised that whilst they had so limited and circumscribed the area within which they could carry on thoir business, it was the State’s right to protect them in the enjoyment of such limited privileges ns were left to them, to protect them against any unreasonable obstruction or circumventing methods which might reduce tbo righ l the State gave them to* a mere shadow. Speaking entirely for himself, ho considered it to be tho duty of the Government —where it was called upon to exercise trie discretion given by section 46 of the Act of 1881, and say whether totalizator licenses shall in any particular case bo issued or not—to withhold such license where a club was wilfully refusing to carry out tbo true spirit of section 35 of the Act of 1907. In his opinion the bookmakers’ best protection lay in tho proper exercise of that discretion. ACTION OF RACING CLUBS. Having said that much, ho desired to make it perfectly clear to them that be was not at present condemning the action of any racing club since the Act came into force. Ho had a full note of tho Foilding Jockey dob’s action, and also of what was being done by tho Woodvdle Jockey Club. At present ho was not going to say whether their conduct was reasonable or not. Ho had only beard the bookmakers, and it would bo quite unfair to deride without full inquiry. So that ho wished to

impress upon them, in what ho had said, ho had simply stated what the attitude of the Government would he toward those clubs which were setting themselves against section 35 and refusing the, right tho Government intended to give to bookmakers. He had reeemxl information of a reliable source that at least several prominent members of racing clubs were .strenuously endeavouring to induce the. clubs to make section 35 a dead letter, so far as bookmakers wore concerned. He repeated, if he found, upon full and fair inquiry, that any club was noting in the manner he had indicated, then, with the approval of his colleagues, hr. should not hesitate to do what he conceived to bo hia duty, and refuse a permit.

A WORD TO THE BOOKMAKERS. Ho wanted to say a word with regard to the bookmakers themselves. They had a true benefit intended by section 35. It was really in their own hands. Tho purpose of that section was to place bookmakers on a course in no bettor nor worse position than the totalisator. It was to bo fair competition between themselves on the one side and tho totalisator on tho other, and he should certainly think they wore abusing the intention of tho section if they adopted any methods by which they wore admitted entry into unfair competition with the totalisator, or attempted to act against a club by methods which lie did not protend to know anything about. Ho wanted to imprers upon them the need of thoir coming to some reasonable understanding with tho racing clubs of Now Zealand. They were thoro that day, ho understood, all reputable men, and it seemed to him some working scheme, perhaps such as suggested by Air Baa-nett, might he adopted, both by tho racing authorities and the bookmakers themselves. He suggested to thorn, as representing the reputable bookmakers of tho Dominion, that they should approach the racing clubs and endeavour to .settle between themselves some fair-working scheme for this .section 35. H© suggested this because a good deal of what had boon referred to by Mr Scott related to matters in which they could not interfere at all.

THE FEE. It seemed to him that srab-scction 2 of section 35 left th© fop to be oba.rged by a club entirely in tlie club’s discretion up to £2O H© certainly was not going to take sides. Ho was simply desirous, so far as bos office was concerned, of liaving tho intention of th© law administered if possible. The whole position might be summed up thus: There ought to bo on the bookmakers’ part a readiness to comply with any reasonable conditions th-e clubs sought to impose. Ho thought they should readily submit to any conditions which would secure as a result that their operations would in no case amount to a nuisance to other people on a racecourse ; and if they were prepared to submit to any reasonable condition, the bookmakers, on their part, had a right to call upon a club to impose non© but reasonable conditions.

WATCHING THE BOOKMAKERS, The conduct of tho bookmakers, especially of tho reputable ones, was, as they knew, being very closely watched just now. He. was very glad to hear Mr Scott say—and he had no reason to donb.t what h© said—tihat ho and his confreres wore sincerely and genuinely obeying the law. If ©vasions were made by tho bookmakers and they complained of evasions by the dubs, the public would have very little sympathy with them; it was only by their adherence to the law that they could claim fair consideration; and whilst th© Government would do its best to prevent evasions by the clubs, it would also do its best to prevent evasions by bookmakers. He thought that at the present juncture they had a chance of lilting th© business of .the bookmaker to a position it had never before hold in New Zealand, and whilst the Legislature had seen fit to continue a certain class of gambling and place it upon a defined and legitimate basis, it was tho duty of tho Government to see that the spirit of tho Act was carried out. He would bo glad to receive from them any definite information ho could as to misconduct on the part of th© clubs, as had hoen_ suggested, and if, on tho fullest inquiry, he found they were acting in defiance of the Act, then he should advise his colleagues to adopt the corrective which was given them under section 46 of the Act of 1881. THE PREMIER WAITED UPON OBJECTION TO DOUBLE FEEB. SIR JOSEPH WARD EXPLAINS THE NEW LAW. INTENTIONS OP PARLIAMENT. PRESS ASSOCIATION.

AUCKLAND, December 3. K deputation of bookmakers waited on the Premier this afternoon with reference to the attitude of certain racing clubs towards bookmakers under tbo now Gaming Act. Mr W. E. Hackett, who acted as spokesman for the bookmakers, said they w’abod to convey through the Premier their deep sense of obligation to tho Government for the status that had been conferred upon them by the recent legislation. A certain unjustifiable stigma had been removed from those following tho bookmaking calling, and they had also been relieved of what they regarded as persecution. Speaking for himself in his private capacity and as a patron of sport, he con Id assure the Premier that bookmakers had been freed of a taint which certain persons were inclined ho associate with them, and tho Government had adopted a line of conduct that would commend itself to tho approval and support of an overwhelming majority of patrons of sport. Mr Hackett then proceeded to refer to tho excessive fees demanded from bookmakers by tho racing clubs. THE PREMIER IK REPLY*

The Premier, in' replying, said the Gaming Act was a very drastic one. It was intended by Parliament to be d-astic, for tbo House took into consideration the fact that there was a groat consensus of opinion amongst tho community against tho gambling that was going on, and against totalieator odds and street-betting. That agi'ation was not new. It had been moving for some four or five years, and tho Government, in going into the question of endeavouring to suppress street-betting—although be did not suppose any Government could absolutely control it—had thought the dr->sric clauses of the Act would to a considerable extent belli to put a stop to some of tho worst forms of the evil. That was the main object of tbo measure. Racing clubs were licensed, and permits were issued to each club with tho object of limiting the number of days on which races could be held. TOO MANY RACING DAYS. There was a general opinion that there wore too many racing,days now. and be himself thought they should bo reduced. That, however, was not the point under review. The Government looked at the position in the light that

where racing was carried on, and betling, whether by tho totalisator or by tho bookmaker, was lo bo indulged in. i tli it lotting 'ho\jld bo cfmho.o-d strictly ! to the raceooiir.se, and the Dovonwient | in tho ad ministration of its duly did ' n't recognise cit’or frier* * <-.»• “Vyo

n nts of iho totalisator. A great many of tho members of tho House wore in f .vour of the continuance of the to-talhat-.r, and as tho House was against streot-bMtinir, ; ‘tote ,s -bctting, and telegraph belting, and was in favour M the totalizator, it came to the conclusion that if it was legitimate to license the t-c-trili-intor on tho racecourse, then it was legitimate to license the bookmaker. A great many people believed in horse-racing as a st* ol '*;, and as Parham: nt believed racing could not be carried on without the necessary wherewithal, through the totalisator, the Government came to the conclusion that a racecourse being lawful, and a totalisator being legal, then it was the n.Dval corollary to say that roputahle b-H'Tvalters should have similar opportunity, but only on racecourse:. That, proposal was put into tbe Bill, and it was passed by Parliament with tho bona fide intention of confin ng betting to tho racecourse, and in the belief that it would be so regarded by racing clubs and by bookmakers. THE PROPER SPIRIT. That was the spirit in which tho law should bo carried out. Ho could not interfere with the administration of an Act. but the racing clubs should recognise in their own interest that if they look up a position that they were to be the only Inga! institutions to carry on tho hot.ting, then they would focus public opinion on themselves, and would suffer accordingly. He was speaking quite impersonally in this, and could say that the drastic legislation was put on" the statute-book with tho intention of confining betting to the racecourse and removing temptation, particularly from young people in tho towns. Ho was sorry to see that there was a tendency to defeat the intention of Parliament, for there was not a member of the House or the Government who expected that any’ racing club would put the bookmaker’s clerk in the same position as the bookmaker for the purpose of charging double fees. Tho spirit and intention of the Act was that racing clubs should have the power to license bookmakers, and the clerks were made the same :us bookmakers only for the penal clause, but nothing of tho kind of meaning read into tho Act of power to charge double fees was intended, and ho would be sorry to sec that racing clubs, oven if they had strong feelings in the matter, were going to so strain tho intention of Parliament as to impose double foes. He could, only say that Parliament intended to confine betting to tho racecourses, and the Igislation was passed in tho belief that the clubs would work in the direction of seeing that what was fair was done. That was tho spirit in which th© Act should bo carried out. He had no hesitation in saying that the legislation confining betting to racecourses and doing away with street betting and telegraphic betting would not have been carried by Parliament unless tbe clause in the Bill providing for the licensing of bookmakers had been included. He said that with a full knowledge of the position, and those who wore carrying on racing in this country should recognise that. His own opinion was that the best oourse was for all rocing clubs to work with tho reputable bookmakers and raise the sport to a standard that would not leave-it open for such strong public opinion to be directed against it. He was sorry to hear there was any tendency to distort tho meaning of the Act.

WOODVII.LE CLUB’S TERMS

PRESS ASSOCIATION. "WOODVILLE, December 3. The stewards of the Woodville Jockey Olnb decided last night to allow bookmakers on tho course on their paying £2O per day and £2O par day fo- clerks. Other conditions are similar to those imposed at Feilding.