PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume LXXV, Issue 5007, 3 July 1903, Page 5

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. THURSDAY, JULY 2. The Council met at 2.30 p.m. ADDBESS-IN-REPLY. Tile Hon. T. K. MACDONALD rose amid applause to move the Address-in-Itepiy to the Governor’s Speech. Alter, expressing regret at the approaching departure of his Excellency, Mr Macdonald proceeded to the chief features oi the Speech. Referring to the Premier’s representation of the colony at the Conference of Premiers, he said that if the right hou. gentleman had done nothing else than introduce the resolution respecting preferential trade—a subject which Mr Chamberlain had since .made of world-wide interest —he could bo credited with having done magnificent work for the colony. Tho question of dealing with the Bank of New Zealand was ono which would require groat care. Tho effect of the Government's control had boon beneficial to tho bank, and that control must still bo continued in some shape or form. Tho bank must never again be allowed to drift into the political machine it was formerly. With regard to the Assets Realisation Board, tho estates vested in it should have been realised long ago. A limit of time must bo fixed when realisation of the assets should take place. Rightly or wrongly a strong impression existed'that unnecessary difficulties wore created in the way of I'ealisation, but there never was a more opportune time for realisation, and tho Legislature must insist upon it. Tho regulation of trusts and combines was no new thing, and could be traced back to tho first session of tho reign of Queen Ann, in 1711. Reform was necessary in tho direction of free rents for a period to settlers on bush lands. In some cases it would be much more profitable to have land cleared of timber by tho sawmiller. Land Boards should be allowed greater discretionary powers in this rospect. Some alteration was necessary in tho matter of compulsory residence to enable the city man to make a home for his boys. There wore defects in tho electoral system, both general and licensing, which required reform, and a second ballot ought to form a feature in elections in order to obtain the real expression of the opinion of the electors. Tho Speech was silent in tho matter of the licensing laws, but they must be dealt with by a vigorous hand. Tho return of partisan committees must bo put an end to. They were altogether opposed to what was right and proper. Partisan committees, whether in the interests of brewers or prohibitionists, must be abolished and tho administration of the law placed in the hands of impartial, capable men. The question of the settlement of the country and reading of Crown lands was ■one of burning, interest. A great injustice had been done to the settlers by tho Legislature in refusing to vote money for reading before the lands were sold. It had been a monstrous injustice that the settlers should have had to pay rents while no facilities in the way of roads were provided. It was idle to palter with this question. It would require not less than £2,000,000 to keep faith .with the settlors; bub however large the expenditure might bo, it would bo reproductive in tho highest degree. If the question were submitted to the people of tho country as to whether the pledges made should bo redeemed, the colony would at once say “ Yes.” The present system of road-making was very faulty, and the waste in this direction had been very great. Tho whole system of land purchase was unfair and unjust, and the loss to the country by bad judgment on the part of the Land Purchase Boards must have run into a quarter of a million sterling. In many oases they were men destitute of mercantile knowledge and experience. The absolute power given to them at present must be curtailed, as it was unfair, both to the Government and the country. Per years past the whole of tho lands of the colony had been undervalued, and thousands of pounds in tho shape of land valuation revenue were being lost in consequence of defective valuation and defective administration. The present office required reorganisation in many respects. The position of ValuerGeneral should be held by ono man, who should hold no other office. Opportunities for advertising the colony such as that offered by the St. Louis Exposition should never bo missed. Tho project of a New Zealand exhibition was welcome nows. It should bo hold on snob a scale as had not hitherto, been attempted. If properly organised it need not cost the colony a penny. It might be run in such a way as to be reproductive. It must be so extensive and complete as to attract visitors from other lands and ■ make New Zealand products and industries known far and wide. The progress of tho colony during tho past ten years had been marvellous, and who could say what its progress would be with liberal legislation during tho succeeding decade. There should be special representation of our Commercial Department in Australia, as well as South Africa, by men knowing New Zealand thoroughly. In London .the AgentGeneral’s office was filled with worthy men long absent from the colony, and ignorant of its people. They should bo sent here for three years, and replaced by men knowing the resources of the people of the colony. The speaker concluded with a reference to tho future, which he looked upon as bright. Tho march of reform must not stand still. The opening of the country and judicious expenditure were absolute necessities. With prudence and judgment and hope and courage allied, we need never fear for the happiness and wellbeing of the people of New Zealand. The Hon S. THORNE GEORGE seconded tho motion. He expressed regret at the approaching departure of the Governor, and hoped, even at this late hour, he would bo reappointed for another term. He spoke of the necessity for giving encouragement to men of little means to settle on the land, and of the desirability of employing the best dairy experts for the instruction of the fanners, and paying them the highest salaries. With regard to the Australian squadron, he thought every effort should, and would, be made to place our first line of defence in a thoroughly good position. The forts also should be properly manned. The Hon W. Scotland and the Hon E. Trask having spoken briefly to the motion, the debate was adjourned upon tho motion of the Hon Mr Rigg until next afternoon. Tho Council then rose.

Amendment (Mr Lewis), Wellington Harbour Board Reclamation and Empowering (Mr AVood), AVcliingtou Harbour Board Empowering Act, li>o2. Amendment (Mr AVood) and tho following Bills in tho name of Mr Laurenson;—Universal Saturday Half-holiday, Divorce aud Matrimonial Causes, Civil Service Board, and Contagious Diseases Act Repeal Bills. THE CHAIRMANSHIP OE COMMITTEES. The PREMIER moved tho appointment of Mr J. A. Millar as Chairman of Committees of the House, and said that lie felt sure that members on both sides of the House would realise in that, gentleman one who would act fairly and impartially to all. As ono of the Chairmen of tho Select Committees for many years, ho had done his duty fairly and satisfactorily. Mr Millar was now becoming ono of the older members of tho House, and was becoming well acquainted with its forms, and ho considered, also, that in bis now position he would have the tact and firmness which wore essential in the case of a Chairman of Committees. Ho hoped that in the nomination of Mr Millar ho would have tho support of gentlemen on the other side of the House. AA’hilo casting no disparagement upon others who had occupied the position, ho claimed that the House would bo wise in approving of tho selection now made. Mr Seddon wont on to urge that some system should be adopted for the training of members to fill this and similar positions, aud that a couple of gentlemen should bo selected from each side of the House who should act in the place of the Chairman of Committees when he- wished to bo relieved of his duties. In this way an opportunity would be given for the training of members, and the House wora Id also be able to select those who were specially fitted to fill those offices Mr WITHEFORD seconded the motion.

Mr HOUSTON regretted that the Premier had departed from the principle he had laid down in the House and the country—that ho would choose the best men for these offices. He took this opportunity of raising his, voice in protest, and though he did so without reflecting in any way upon Mr Millar, whqso ability and perseverance he admired. he believed there were South Island members better fitted for the position. '

Mr McNAB thought the House was making a very wise selection in appointing Mr Millar. Months ago, when this and other appointments were under consideration, he had singled out Mr Millar as Chairman of Committees, and ho believed he would fill the position with dignity to the House aud to himself.

Mr LAWRY respected tho honest convictions of Mr Houston, but' believed he was entirely wrong, for no member of the House was better qualified than Mr Millar to act as Chairman of Committees. It might be insinuated by some that tho Government was truckling to the Labour party in this matter, but he believed that Mr Millar in the chair would know no party. The PREMIER, speaking of Mr Houston’s protest, said that the latter must Have been surprised when on e of tho gentlemen ho had had in bis mind’s eye, Mr McNab, rose and expressed his ■warm approval of the choice of Mr Millar. There wore several members who were well qualified, and no doubt Mr Houston had alluded to the ex-Spoaker, Sir AY. J. Steward. (Mr Houston: “Hear, hoar.”) Sir W. J. Steward bad had _ experience in filling tho highest position in tho House as Speaker Mr T. E. TAYLOR: You were not afraid of a no-confidence motion from Sir AVilliara Steward.

The PREMIER: The member for Christchurch knows mo fairly well, and ho knows that under existing conditions a motion of no-confidence has no terrors for me. Sometimes hou. members’ liave strengthened my hands in proposing them. Mr Soddon. continuing, said that they entertained the kindest feeling towards Sir William Steward, hut as he had been Speaker, it would look like a retrograde step and derogatory to the high position he had held, and still held, if be had now -been proposed for this office. He believed the choice of Mr Millar would bo generally acceptable.

Mr McLAOHLAN having called for a division, the motion for the appointment of Mr Millar was carried by 61 votes to 2, the two members voting against it being Messrs McLachlan and Houston. Mr Millar, who was absent from the House during the division, was sent for and was informed by the Speaker that ho had been elected. Mr Guinness added that he had groat pleasure in complimenting tho hon. member, who would, ho felt sure, give him every assistance in tho discharge of his duties, and would occupy the position with dignity to tho House and credit to himself.

Mr MILLAR, in expressing his thanks to the House, said ho had ‘not sejught for tho honour. Ho’fully recognised tirat there were other members better qualified than ho for the office, but when he had been asked if he would allow himsolf to bo nominated, he had agreed to do so. It would be. ho promised, his constant endeavour by strict impartiality and due observance of tho standing orders, to discharge his duties efficiently, and he hoped that when'.his time came to leave the chair, ho would Rave it with tho feeling on the part of tho House that evidently existed as ho took it—namely, tho hearty esteem of his comrades. (Applause). THE SESSIONAL COMMITTEES. The discussion in regard to tho sessional committees was continued. Mr James Allen’s amendment was lost on tho voices, and tho motion for tho appointment of the- Labour Bills Committee was agreed to, Messrs Alison, Colvin and Kirkbrido being appointed in addition to those originally proposed. Some of the committees were appointed, and a long discussion concerning the constitution of the Waste Lands Committee was interrupted by the 5.30 p.m. adjournment. EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30 p.m. THE ADDRESS-IN-REPLY. Mr E. M. SMITH resumed tho Ad-dress-in-Roply debate, and spoke in praise of the Governor, especially for his work in establishing the Veterans’ Home. Speaking of the land question, he asserted that the Opposition had sought to poison tho minds of tho people with the statement that the Government intended to take the freehold tenure away. The Government, he declared. did not intend to take away the freehold. Mr MASSEY—What did the Premier say the other day in Christchurch? Mr SMITH—Oh, never mind what he said; you listen to what I have to say. (Laughter.) The member for Taranaki went on to advocate the leaso-in-perpetuity. The freehold would react injuriously on many of those who clamoured for it, and the Government should pause before making any alteration in the present system. He com-

plained that sufficient had not been done to develop the resources of the colony. Mr DUTHIE commented at the outset on the Premier’s interference in the New Plymouth election, and condemned the promise which he said had been given at that time that the Government would take up the ironsaud scheme even if it did not prove a success. It was gratifying to see the conciliatory spirit adopted by tho Government towards the land-owning class, to which Mr Rutherford, tho mover of the Address-in-Rcpjy,, belonged, and he suggested that this was the outcome of Mr Seddon’s association with the aristocracy in England. - With respect to tho credit of the colony, Mr Duthio assorted that our Joans wore now a miserable failure. He went on to refer to Mr Seddon’s Wairarapa speech before he went Home, and said that tho Premier had cabled his denial to London, but did not dare to utter it ill this colony before he left. In reference to the “national purse,” Mr Duthie assorted that it had been subscribed to by but few independent people, but by sycophants, and others in tho public service. When the Premier went Home, ho said, and found the high conception existing there of tho conduct of public men, he stated that there was no purse, and that the matter Jiad been settled. But it had not been settled, for some subterfuge had been resorted to such ns tho subdivision of., it, which satisfied nobody; and by recent mails they found that references to this had appeared in the Loudon papers. It was very hard that the people of the colony should have to accept tho blame in a matter of this hind. (A Voice—-“Pro-Boer papers.”) Mr Duthie held that it was not argument to use the term "Pro-Boers.” He went on to assert that Mr Seddon had become the gibe of the Press of Great Britain. He objected to a phrase, he said, Mr Soddon had applied to him when he had corrected the Premier in regard to a statement made by tho latter in a speech. Ho (Mr Duthie) was a man who never said a thing which lie did not substantiate, and to apply the term he did to him was unwarranted. “Ho described me,” said Mr Duthie; “as a bear.” (Laughter.) The Premier, on the other hand, ought to have sent him a complimentary telegram, thanking him for his correction. Speaking in regard to the £1,350,000 loan, Mr Duthie asked whether it need be wondered at that this loan was not floated, when our repute was such as it was in London? The underwriting of this loan, he claimed, should be explained by the Premier. 1 New Zealand was a progressive and prosperous country, and was known to be so in England, and if the management of its affairs was such that it would gain the confidence of the people in England, our loans would not be a failure. At Hanmer the Premier stated that no moneylenders in the world would bo allowed to detail the policy of , New Zoalati. (Hear, hear.) What silly nonsense this was 1 (A voice—“lt was bluff.”) Bluff had sense in its sometimes, but this was nonsense. (The Premier “Are we to take our policy from the moneylenders at Home?”) Mr Duthio read comments from certain English papers regarding the credit of. New Zealand, and proceeding to speak of the land question, said that judging from comments lie had heard during the session, the whole system of land settlement was unsatisfactory. On reading the report of the Land Board meeting in Wellington this week, one was stirred with sorrow to see the way in which settlers were harassed. They wenfrtorthwfßoardjuiploring in humble fashion for extension of time, or for exemption from some condition or other. They were worse than serfs. Ha held that too great a power was given to the Premier in the matter of land purchase, and that no purchase should be completed until it had been submitted to the House. Mr Duthio concluded his speech by referring to the Router’s cable message sent from this colony, and said that it would be well if the Premier's name was not mentioned for a year or two in those messages to the people of England. Mr MoNAB said that- some of tho older members who had coma back to the House after absence ; had • not; improved in eloquence in their retirement. This applied particularly to .Mr Duthie, who had spent forty-seven minutes ottt of- tho sixty minutes allotted to him for his 'speech in abusing the most popular man in tho House and the most popular man in the colony. (Hear, hoar.) Forty-seven minutes of abuse, and not good abuse at thatl (Laughter and applause.) Mr Duthie had stated that he never said a thing which he could not substantiate. Did Mr Duthie remember a statement made in the session of 1895 referred to in an evening paper, which stated that it could be proved that “Mr Ward was on the wharf when Mr John Murray arrived, that Mr Ward’s denial of the fact was absolutely untrue, and that MfeDuthie’s'" statement was perfectly correct.” Did ha remember a case where he had made a statement not in accordance with fact? (Mr Duthie—Yes.) Well, this was one statement. Did Mr Duthie remember also a statement he had made with regard to the Premier .going to England, when he had bet hi= own opinion upon tho accuracy of the statement, and lost his money ?

iMr IHTHTB said that he knew nothing of the last occasion. In the first case mentioned ho had had the written statement of a party, and he went and rang up to get the assurance of another party, and having obtained this, ho had come back to the House and had repeated what had been told him —that the statement was'correct. Ho had not made the statement on his own account, but because of what ho had been informed.

Mr M&XAB observed that the hon. gentleman did not deny that the state>meut was not correct. Why, he asked, did Mr Duthie spend forty-seven minutes in abusing the leader of the House at this time, when tho Opposition had not elected their leader. He reminded him that during his absence from the Mouse the system of abuse in carrying on the business of the country had ceased to exist. Tho leaders of tho Opposition in the last Parliament had carried their end of tho stick through the three sessions, and such a speech as they had listened to from Mr Duthie had not been heard in that House. (Hear, hear.) , He bad hoped that matters would have been otherwise, but it appeared that they were in for a bitter session. Asr for the proposals in the Governor’s speech, he supported the coming change in tho shipping laws. Unless tho British maritime laws were altered, tho time would come when the Americans would be masters of tho Pacific. Regarding the Porirua case he held that some change was necessary to remove the difficulty caused by tho fact that tho Privy Council had not a knowjedgo of our laws. He did not know that the difficulty would be solved by the appointment of a colonial Judge to tho Council, and he held that the final Court of Appeal should be within this colony. He denied that tho agricultural interests were

neglected in that House; but ho advocated the establishment of some system of agricultural education; and ho strongly urged the establishment of stations for this purpose. Replying to Mr Massey’s speech on tho previous evening, ho remarked that Mr Massey had condemned loans, and yet ho had practically admitted that lie had last session asked for £300,000 for one railway. He believed it would never be to the of the colony to part with the Sati Francisco mail service, but ho did not approve of that service receiving extra terms tor tho carriage of mail matter. Regarding the preferential trade proposals, Mr McNab said ho thought that if tho Imperial Government could persuade tho people of Great Britain to tax themselves in order to give preference to the trade of the colonics, the colonies should not refuse to reciprocate. Ho imped tho Forestry Department would receive a now lifo.

Mr O’MEARA, referring first to air Massey’s speecii, said that the Government was doing its best to solve Urn native land difficulty, and so far exceedingly good work had been done. Ho thoughc money should bo borrowed for the purpose of giving settlers access to their sections. Ho hold that, settlers with largo families should receive preference in the laud ballot. Relative to tho speech of Mr Duthie. ho said that he hoped the hon member would not in future make such wild charges as he had made that evening. Tho bitterness of debate of previous sessions had passed aw-ay, but ho iraa afraid that if Mr Duthio delivered many suon speeches, ho would lose tho name ho had enjoyed iu post sessions—- “ Honest John Duthie.” Mr (f JVLoara, speaking in reference to the complaint of Mr Duthio asserting interference in tho New Plymouth election on tho part of tho Premier, hold that Mr Soddon was right iu travelling through tho colony addressing the people. Mr Duthio himself, however, had oomo into tho Woodvillo district and advocated the candidature of his (Mr O’Moara’a) opponent. In reference to tho Assets Board, Mr O’Meara said that that Board, by its administration of the estates in its bands, had saved tho colony £250,000. As to tho Premier’s Papawai spoeoh, it was remarkable that Mr Seddou’s denial had been corroborated by more than one reporter who had been on the spot. Members of tho House were also prepared to corroborate it. Ho resented Mr Duthio’* sweeping statements regarding tho nar tional purse, and said that those who had contributed to the purse were leaders of thought and business: Da his own district men who were politically opposed to tho Premier wore the first to subscribe. The Premier was quite right in contradicting tho statement cabled Homo beforo ho left that a purse had been presented. The press ol England had supported the New Zealand Premier in his remarks concerning the Boer Generals and their proposed reception in England. He ridiculed Mr Duthio’s statement that Mr Soddon’a attitude regarding the Boer Generals had lowered the credit of the colony. Such a statement was childish in tho extreme. In reference to the loan, ■ho thought the Government was to be congratulated upon its success. Tiro New Zealand loan had been floated, whereas tho loans attempted, to bo raised by Australian Governments had tailed. Mr O’Meara defended tire Bolioitor-General, who had, ho said, been attacked by Mr Duthie in regard to the Porirua case. Ho held that snob an attack as that made by Mr Duthie required an apology from the latter to tho Premier.

The PREMIER, speaking in regard to the controversy with Mr Duthio regarding the Hokitika'speech, said that the Press Association report of tine speech, from which Mr Duthio liad quoted, did not contain in full the passage in question, which had appeared in the “ West Coast Times.” Mr Soddou repeated the passage, and said he hoped that ho would hear no more of want of patriotism on the part of tho Prime Minister. As to the Papawai speech, Mr Seddon stated that he had taken the earliest opportunity of correcting tho misstatement on that subject. As soon * as ho arrived in Australia, and found what had been reported, and tho view taken by the Australian press,.ho explained at a dinner given bun at the Hotel Australia what he had said. This had "been reported by several reporters who were present, and afterwards a letter had appeared in the ‘‘New Zealand Times,” which ha was sura Mr Duthio had read, stating tho facts. The facts were that Mr Wi Pero had said, not seriously, that when tho Maoris were fighting, thaix enemies never troubled them a second time. Them he (Mr Sodden) Lad stated, in referring to tho equipment of a Maori contingent, and in view of the slown.es* of tho progress made at the seat of war, that if the Maoris were allowed to go and follow the Boers in their own way untraiamc! ted,, there would bo a different tale to tell. He had been speaking at that time of tho equipment of a Maori contingent, and he bad stated that the Maoris could travel es quickly as the Boers, and go where the Boers went, Tho Maoris, ho claimed, would have been tho best and most generous of foes in South Africa, and it was an insult to them to say otherwise, and an insult to him to put words into his mouth which ho had not used. In regard to a statement made by Mr Duthio as to what Mr Seddon had said regarding General Meyer, the Premier explained that what ho had said was that his Majesty the King should have been saved from a slight by the refusal by. General Meyer of the King’s and that before the invitation, had bees sent, it should have been ascertained whether the General would accept it. In reference to the charge by Mr Duthio that he was ungenerous in his attitude towards the Boer Generals, the Premier said that ho had seen British people at Southampton going on their knees and kissing tho hands of the Boer Generals, and he had claimed that that was un-British. (Hoar, hear.) Ho had said, “ Give thorn » generous welcome, but not tills adulation.” At the same time a Manchester regiment had returned home unrecognised, and travelling in cattle-trucks, and he had drawn a contrast between the treatment of these troops and that accorded to the Boer Generals. Later on, when the Boor Generals were in Germany, and gave the manifestation of their views, the British papers said the Prime Minister of Now Zealand was far-seeing, and knew the Boer Generals better than tho British people. Tho debate was adjourned, and tho House rose at 11.55 p.m.