PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume LXXI, Issue 4440, 21 August 1901, Page 7

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. TUESDAY, AI .GUST 20. ’'l'll'. Speaker took tho chair at 2.00 D.rn. Petition. Th f . Hon D. Pinkerton pre-sented a petition from a number ot employees in iiiHiiranoo company office-i prolcs'ii;;' against Uio Shop-. and Offices Bill being made to apply to them. E-’r’ssbytQf’ian Ciiui’ch of New -i Zealand. On the mrdion of tii,, firm G. Mt--1,(11111, seconded )>y the lion 11. _ Feld, wick, Ih® I’rc-bycci'iau Church of New /...aland idl! was nad a .second time, without discussion. Lai d fon Settlement. * The Hon o. ORMOND moved io Jmvo a, return laid on the table of the Council showing (If All land purchased under authority of the Land for Settlements Act, Ib'.U, and handed over to tho Lands Department, giving (lie acre, ago of each block, and the cost, including all expenses, in acriuiriug the same. (2) How .such lands have been disposed of, giving a separate reiiira for each block, such return to .show how the ];■ 'ds have been classified —that is to say, if a block has berm divided into several classo., the return shall give the acreage classed as agricultural laud, sec-ond-class land, third-class land; also, the acreage devoted to providing homes for workmen in the vicinity ol cities or towns, tho acreage disposed of as small grazing runs, the number of sections into which each block has been divided, tho acreage of the sections, and tho rentals; also, a return of advances made to settler-, in each block under the authority of the Land for Settlements Act. Tin' return to show tip. cost to the colour of each block, including surveys, roadintr, and all expense.; to date of dUposal, and the gross rental at which Midi blocks have been disposed of. Tho mover of the motion complained that returns relating to the Act which should respectively have been brought down within fourteen and I wentv,ope days from the opening of Parliament had not yd: been brought, down. '1 his was a, mailer for regret, as Hie ah.-cime of (Im re I urns hampered investigation into tho way in which settlement had been carried on. If any of the assertions he was going lo make were to any extent wrong, that neglect would a 1 onp he to blame. A largo amount of the money voted by .Parliament for Ihe prosecution of closer settlement had ' been expended iu land to ho subdivided into sheep runs. Thai, lie contended. Was not what Parliament had in view when Uio vote was rn"dn. He went on to critieiso the application of tho compulsory clause.-; Of the Act, and said that far morn evil than good would result ( herefrom. Tn any case, it was unnecessary. for only two large properties had vH been taken. In regard to one—the Kahuna. estate ■ it would bo found that rU would bo an absolutely bail bargain financially- At the salo it was not all sold in small sections —some estates of. fell'd (fifteen in number) comprised a square inUf. of lam! each, and, strange to say. tho host laud of llatnma was in those large .sections. How the small sol Hors on tho est ate would get on ho did not know. Tho estalo was one of jllio worst-watered in Hawke's Bay. An- ■ other estate, known as Unrest End, a 'Hie over 8000 acres, altogether unlit for eloso settlement, had been nerinired by the Government compulsorily after it had been previously offered to the Government by tiie trusle c , and declined. There was a strong feeling in Hawke’s Hay that the Act was a cruel and a. wanton one, as the estate would at best not support more than as many again a.s were settled on it before acquirement by the Government. Under tho compulsory clauses of the Act a feeling was being engendered which made some people say that whenever an estate was being steadily improved it would thereby be made move desirable for compulsory acquirement. H e instanced a ease where .such a. remark had been applied, and told tho Council that, compared to this, the story of ‘'Naboth’s Vineyard'’ was a .small affair. He had no objection to the broad principle of the Lands for Settlement Act. but bo objected to tho method of its present application. -,Ho objected. though, to tills* wretched leasehold, and trusted that the freehold would be soon substituted for it. Tho Hon AV. C. WALKER (Minister of Education) said ho was astonished at the very extraordinary speech of the Hon Mr Ormond, especially iu view of the fact that he came from a district which had been more than usually hampered by the 'holding of estates in large areas. lie was absolutely surprised at the stand that Mr Ormond was taking. Was it not a, great deal better that Hiu tuma should be cut up into about thirty sections than bo kept in one? Compare tho district of Hawke's Day with Taranaki. The one was progressive and prosperous: tho other stagnant. The one was closely settled, and the other largely monopolised. Yet in Hawke's Bay the conditions were more favourable to close settlement than was th e ease in Taranaki. If the hon gentleman had taken a wider view of tho subject, and had been able to show that the objections to which ho had referred as existent in Hawke’s Bay wore known in other parts of the colony, be would hav e had a bettor case. But that he could not do. Tho values of lands in Hawke's Bay had long been put too low by the valuers. Ho was therefore glad to hear the hon gentleman complain that laud values were being raised too high, for it showed that at last the landowners of Hawke’s Bay wer D beginning to pay at the same rates as owners in other parts of the colony did. As to the story of ‘'Naboth’s Vineyard," so far as bo r»membered tho story, it was the big man trying to eat up the little man. N ow tho hon gentleman wanted to reverse tho story to sanctify his argument. As to Mr Ormond's quibble concerning the land tenure, that was”only a matter of training the people. All a man really required to know was that ho was holding his land on a secure tenure. When the man was dead, all he would require was six feet of it. In any ease, the leasehold tenure was by no means tho antiquated institution that many people thought it to bo. The freehold tenure was only the giving to a man’s sons the right to squander and part with tho lands which came to them. Tho longer leasehold existed in this colony the morn and more popular it would become. As to the complaint about returns nob being forthcoming which should have been down a few weeks ago, that was caused by tho press of business in the Government Printing Office. The department had had the returns ready two months ago. The information iu them was very full ; and he (Mr Walker) therefore hoped that tho Council would not call for thp, returns mentioned by Air Ormond until it had inspected those now in tho hands of tho printer. The Hon J. M. TWOMEN told tho Council that ho bad ascertained that f ...eight homesteads were now .established on tho Hatuma estate. That meant nearly three hundred people settled on tho estate which was owned by an absentee. Tho Hon G. McLEAN re-echoed the sentiment that the Land for Settlement Act was not passed for the purpose of

providing tho people of tho colony with .small sheep-runs. It would, ho said, he more to the purpose to prosrwni e Hie North l-land .Main Trunk Railway, and thereby open np good land which wapaid for by the colony years ago. The present policy of opening np land by borrowing money must of necessity soon come lo an end. 'Tho_ statement (hat the Government Printing Office could not. print a, return which was fine miller .statute law was most extraordinary. There wa- much (ess important; printing being executed. He would .support, the making of the return. Tip, Hon T. KELLY spoke to the motion until 4 o’clock, when lie was interrupted by necessity of the standing orders. Shops and O Dices Sill. The Council then went on tn consider the Shops and Offices Bill in committee. After an Jiohr’s discussion progress was reported without material alteration being made to the 11:11. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TUESDAY, AUGUST 20. In tho absence of tbc Speaker. Mr Guinness took the chair at 10.30 a.m. Neui Bill. Tho Rotorua Town Council Validation Bill (Hon. Mr Duncan) was read a first time. Leave of Absence. A week’s leave of absence was granted to Mr .McLachhiu on account of jllhcairn. Questions were answered, and the House adjourned at 1 p.m. AFTERNOON SITTING. The House resumed at 2.1)0 p.m. Hospital Mtinses. The Hospital Nurses Registration Bill was further considered in committee. Clause 5 was amended to provide that a, hospital nurse shall not bo entitled to registration unless at least twelve lectures have been delivered in tho hospital in each year of her three year,-.’ residence therein. The provision that a certificate shall no L issue unless the matron ol fae hospital is herself a registered nurae was struct! out. Clau.-o S, providing that the registration of a nurse may ho cancelled for misconduct. evoked considerable discussion. Tho TREMIER suggested that tho clause should provide that any registered iiurso convicted of indictaiile offence should have her name erased from 'he register, and any registered nurse proved to the satisfaction of the Registrar and a. Stiuendiary Alagisl rate to have' been guilty of grave misconduct shall be liable to have her name erased from, the register by Order-in-Couucil.

Tho following new clause was added on the motion ol tho Hon. AV. Hull-Jeues: "For tho purpose of enabling nurses who. previous to the passing of the Act, hold certificate issued by any medical author, ity, or who have had not less than lour years’ experience as nurses, and who do not come vtjthin tho foregoing' provisions, to be registered under this Act, the Minister may make regulations prescribing the qualifications or form of examination required and the fee to bo paid for Die issue of a certificate which shall entitle tho holder to registration under this Act. Provided that no such certificate shall be issued after the thirty-first day of December. 1902.”

Mr HUTCHESON (on behalf of Mr Pirani) moved anew clause to provide that registered nur.-os should have preference of employment in hospitals under the control of Hospital .Boards. After considerable discussion this clause was added to the Bill. A new clause was also added providing that the Bill should come into operation on the- first day of January, 1902. The Bill was then reported from committee. Lam) -for* Settlement. On the question of the amendments made by the Legislative Council in the Land for Settlements Act Amendment Bill. On tho motion of the Premier, it was resolved that tho amendments in sub-section 3 of section 6 and the now sub-section 3 of section 8 bo not agreed to, and that the other amendments bo agreed to. Sub-section 3 of section 6, as it passed tho Houstj, provided that if tho land under negotiation w:\s not acquired within twelve months after notice had been given tn tho owner, the restriction on tho disposition of the land should cease to have effect. As this clause was amended by tho Council, it roads; —"If the Governor determines not lo proceed with the purchase he shall forthwith give notice thereof to the claimant, and thereupon tho restriction on tho disposition of the land under suo-section 1 hereof shall ceaso to have effect.” Sub-section 3 of section S is a new one, put iu by the Council. It roads: "Ah applicant mav apnlv in respect of more than one group or subdivision.” Advances to Settlers. The Government Advances to Bottlers Extension Bill wa 3 committed. At clause 2, giving tho Government power to raise additional loan of two millions for purposes of Government Advances to Settlers Department, Mr Beddon moved to reduce the amount to one million, pointing out that since the BUI Sassed its second reading, the Agenteneral had advised him of the inadvisability of raising a largo loan at Homo at present. Mr THOMAS MACKENZIE asked whether the Department required a million?

Mr SEDDON replied that it did, and that it could not do with less. Mr G. \\ r . RL'SSErjij contended that this money was not wanted for the Advances to Settlers Department. A sum of £760,000 was available for the purposes of the Act, and this, togathor with, tho sum of probably £150,000 which- would be received from the Public Trustee for reinvestment, should carry the Department over this year. This Bill really meant that the Government was asking that a largo sum should be placed in its hands with which to chop pad change as it pleased. Captain BUSSELL was strongly of opinion that only half a million should be granted. In his opinion tho Department had ample money to carry on till the end of the year. The PREMIER said that ho could not understand any supporter of the advances to settlers system voting for the reduction of tho sum below_ one million. The Department could _ not do with less than a million. The amount now available would he exhausted by the end of the financial year, and there would bo no money to carry on the Department until he could got the consent of Parliament next session to raise further money and then procure it. He must borrow the money as the market suited; he could not raise it just at tho moment he mitdit want it. The Hon- C. H. MILLS said that the Superintendent of the Department estimated that even with £150,000 repayments, he would only have £40,000 available on March 31st next. This was a policy measure, and nothing could stop the advances to settlers policy. Mr MEREDITH expressed the belief that private competition Would very largely lessen the amount applied for by

settlers, and that there was no necessity for such a measure as this. .Mr .ja.MMS ALLEN contended that half a. million a year was ample for the Department. The PREMIER said that he Was adviser], that at the beginning of next year thero would be a. pletnora of mono- on the London market, at a low rate ol interest, and ho must have authority so as tn enable him to raise a loan at the most favourable opportunity. If tho public thought there ivaS a shortage of money in the Department they would not apply for loans, and the Department would bo crippied. He could understand the opposition of those who did not sunport line advances to settlers system, but he did not understand the attitude of Air Meredith and Mr G. AV. Ru-scll. The debate wars interrupted by the 5.00 p.m. adjournment. EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30 p.m. Advancas to Settlers. Tho discussion of this Bill in comxnKteo was continued, on Mr Socldon’.s motion to reduce tho amount of the loan from two millions to one million. Mr SEDDON said that if private lending institution!, lent money at a less rate of interest than the Advances to Settlers Departm at, it slioweu that tho object of the policy had been achieved, it it became known that tin' cullers ot the department were empty, private lender., would raise the rate of interest at once. If any proposal was made to reduce the amount of the Joan below one million, ho should regard it as a no-con) fidouce motion. He would stand no nonsense as far a* the GoVLivmont’s financial police was concerned. Mr Scdclon went on to say if it had not been for the si ate of the finances and the tightness of the money market more money would have been lent last year. Great care had been exercised in making advances on urban property, but he knew for a fact that more money would l.c lent on that class of properly this year. There was r.o intention lo raise the rate or interest charged on advances to settlors, because this policy had been th» means of reducing the rale of interest in tho colony. For a colony like New Zealand, nothing less than a million loan would bo looked at on the London money market and to apply for a smaller sum would be to indicate that there was a weakening, whereas iu fact they had not lost a tenpoauifl note, and tho outlook was bright in the extreme. He ridiculed the idea that ho wanted the money to help tho Public Works Land, and remarked that the restrictions imposed on them made such a course impossible. Air G. W. Ru-scll bad been barking up the wrong tree. The amount available on the 31st March last Was only £500,000, and the loans authorised amounted to about £500,000 a year. Mr G. J. SMITH supported the Premier in his application for a million, but expressed rogiofc Iliac on suck a question ho should liavo raised the question of party. Captain RUSSELL ridiculed the Premier threatening to. make a no. confidence motion of a proposal to reduce this amount, when he himself had already proposed a reduction by one-half. The inference from the Premier’s remarks as to advances not being mads was that tho money which should have been available for settlors had been taken away and placed to tho credit of some other account.

Mr G- W. RUSSELL, referring to the no-confidouce question, said he objected to tie placed in the position of voting against a policy which ho had always supported because ho objected to giving unnecessary powers of borrowing to tho Government. Ho objected to tho flick of tho Scddonian whip laid over his should ors. Ho gave figures jn support of his contention that with a loan of half a million, tho Department would have C 1.235,000 for the current year, whereas tho amount borrowed last year totalled only £539,000.

Mr HORNSBY said be would vote for the million, not because he thought it was altogether required, but to onunciaft the principle that the Advances to Settlors Office* v,ms the ino.tt important office jn tho whole government of the country.

i M r COLLINS said a'feeling was preval lent amongst members that this money was wanted, .not for the Advances to Settlers Department, but for some other department. (Laughter from tho Premier A Mr MONK objected to these proposals, because they enabled H'.e Government to borrow at a hijrher rate of interest than they could lend to settlers except at a loss. This was not sound finance. Mr SEDDON said that if the Government finance was to be interfered with by irresponsible members, they could not with self-respect retain their scats on the Treasury benches. In the course of further debate, Air VIILFORD drew attention to the statement of Mr Herrics that he considered the advances to settlers scheme a good thing for the settlers, and tho statement of Air Monk that ho did not want to turn the Government out. These statements would have great value with tho country. Air JAAIES ALLEN contended that if the Government got this loan it would have nearly a million and a half this year for the purposes of the Advances to Settlers Department. Sir JOSEPH WARD said that the opponents of tho Bill desired to restrict the operations of the Department and thus r»flect discredit on the Government. The real cause of the opposition to the Promier’s proposal wa.s the desire to minimise the usefulness ot the Department. It would be suicidal to go on to the London or anv other market at the, present time, and it was good policy to get tho money just now in our own country at 4 per cent, and await a favourable opportunity to take advantage of the lower rate on the Home market. The motion to strike out the word “two” was agreed to, and on the question of inserting “one,” s o as to make the amount to be borrowed one million, Captain RUSSELL moved an amendment that the words “five hundred thousand pounds” should he inserted. The PREAIIER opposed tho amendment, which was lost by 43 votes to 14. Air G. AY. RUSSELL then moved an amendment to provide that the Government should not be allowed to borrow more* than £500.000 in any one year. This was lost by 42 votes to 14. The word “one.” fixing the sum at one million, was inserted, and the Bill passed through committee without further amendment. The House adjourned at 10.35 p.m.