FEDERATION COMMISSION.

New Zealand Times, Volume LXXI, Issue 4292, 27 February 1901, Page 3

FEDERATION COMMISSION.

FURTHER EVIDENCE. 'l'll*' l' , «*cl(‘i , ;rHof) Commission resumed it ' sittings at ten o’clock yesterday morning. .Messrs J. Bissloy ami S. Kirkpatrick, Nelson, wrote, stating that it would lie inconvenient for them to give evidence in Wellington that day. It was resolved to take. Mr Bis..ley’s evidence on Thursday, and that of Mr Kirkpatrick at a fid lire date. •Mr J. R. Blair asked to he excir-ed from giving evidence, on the ground that as the (|iiestiou ef federation had not entered into practical polities, he had not givcai the subject mueh consideration. .Mr .f. W. Kays, Wellington, wrote offering to give evidence. Jt was decided to hear him. BETTER FROM MR JOHN ROSS. Mr John Ro.-.s, of Sargood, Son and I'.weii, asked to. he excused from attendance, hut forwarded his views shortly on Iho subject in writing, tie considered that. New Zealand was quite capable of si adding alone. Although he believed in paying a fair wage, the demands of unionists and the want of fixity of tenure and of freedom of contract would injure our industries. New Zealand held a unique position in its advanced legislation, and there was no reason why the colony should sacrifice that, lie considered we should not lightly barter our independence, and that reciprocity was all that wu required. Me also thought that greater facilities should ho given for forming public opinion by publishing literature en the Mihjcet of federation.

A I’IiBLIC OI.*’KICKII EXAMINED. Mr James Mackay, chief clerk in Cm* Labour Department, produced comparative returns of tbe wages paid in New Zealand anti tbe colonic-, of Australia in the leading trades and industries. The average wages wore much higher in New Zealand, and the hours of labour less than in Australia. In the course of time he believed that conditions of labour in Australia would ceme more into line with those obtaining in New Zealand. To Mr Leys ; The factories in Australia were much larger than those in New Zealand. Tbe proposed labour legislation in Now South Wales did not go so far as that existing in New Zealand. The Victorian wages did not range intieli lower Ilian those in Now Zealand. The Wages Hoard there seemed to have given satisfaction, as wages had been raised since it was initiated, in tin? event of federation, lie believed wages in New Zealand would bo lowered.

B,y Mr Beauchamp; There has boon a decided increase lately in tbe number of factories and employees in this colony. By Mr Millar: If the Commonwealth passed an Arbitration Act to apply to (he whole of the States, it might prove detrimental to New Zealand. The condition of trade largely influenced the decisions of the Arbitration Court. AN EDITOR'S VIEWS.

Mr J. L. Kelly said lie was engaged in tlio literary profession, and was editor of tbe “New ZealamT Times.” He bad studied the question of federation for the past ten or twelve years, and iiis conclusions were adverse to this colony entering the Commonwealth. As far as finance and trade were concerned, there would ho possible advantages in federation. Tlio “pooling’’ of the loans would give us cheaper money, while Customs union would give freedom of interchange of goods between tlio States, and as far as these considerations were concerned, the colony might gain. The disadvantages, however, would, ho believed, outweigh the advantages. There were thirty-nine subjects of legislation remitted to the Commonwealth Parliament, and wo would suffer under most of them. On general grounds he objected to federation. It would dwarf our national life and retard the progress of the colony. Wo would bo swamped by Australia. Imperial unity was'sufficient for our needs.

By Mr Beauchamp: Ho behoved the Commonwealth would ho able to borrow more advantageously than individual States. He could not sco what advantage the trans-continental railway would ho to Now Zealand. Ho favoured a direct system of taxation as against an indirect system. The country would benefit more by developing its resources than by trade.

By Mr Luke: In case of the necessity arising for defence of the colony, ho believed the Empire would act unitedly. Our best course was to train our young people for the defence of the colony. His view was that by federating, New Zealand would lose its identity, and would be sunk to the level of a mere province. New Zealand, he thought, was large enough to stand alone, and form a. portion of the larger federation of the British Empire. The colony possessed everything to support a large population. Ho believed that our industrial population could individually turn out more work than the workmen in Australia. This country, he thought, would be a more cypher in the Commonwealth. Ho did not think that the Commonwealth would agree to a reciprocal tariff if New Zealand did not. federate, but he Jiought there would ultimately ho an l&nporial Customs union, which would he of more benefit to New Zealand. That-union would be more likely to be attained if New Zealand stood out of the Commonwealth.

By the chairman; Ho attributed; the progress that Great Britain bad made to the fact that she stood aloof from any European Power. Her insularity had been her strength. He did not attach much importance to the question of the distance of New Zealand from Australia. New Zealand would develop into an important maritime country, and the shipping laws of the Commonwealth might detract from such a possihility. Our laws as to aliens might also lie over-ridden, and the coloured labour question would cause trouble.

EVIDENCE BY A BARRISTER. Mr Martin Chapman, an English barrister by profession, residing in Wellington, said he had always been of opinion that federation would he good for the colony. History showed that it was an advantage to belong to a largo State. Australia was necessary to New Zealand, and the latter would not have attained its present importance but for Australia.- If we remained outside, we would have to face a. hostile tariff. There would be some loss of legislative independence, but that would not prove detrimental. He did not think Wat New Zealand would be swamped in the Commonwealth. He did not think the diversity of laws would be a difficulty. 'With regard to a. Court of Appeal, he thought there should be an appeal to the Privy Council. There were objections to the Commonwealth constitution, but not of sufficient importance to prevent federation. As to the question of distance. New Zealand was just as close to Australia as Ireland was to England one hundred years ago. By Mr Roberts; Ho was distinctly of ooiiiion that federation should be set about, as early as possible. By Mr Beauchamp ; Ho believed that the Commonwealth would impose protective duties against New Zealand. He did not think two of the most prominent States would combine for the purpose of dominating the other States. It was a blot on the Commonwealth con-

stitufcion that Maoris would not ho aI lowed to vote. He was inclined to tak the. Bill with all its blots. By Mr Kuke; Me thought the Fedora Parliament might he tni-ted not h undertake works that would he ot hemI lit only tonne State. Federation wouh he, an advantage, in t(ie enforcing o Court judgments. Regarding exclusive laws, such as marriage and divorce. In thought the facilities for divorce i' New Zealand were greater than in raos other countries. I’niforrnity as to here, difary laws, and in regard to solicitors barristers, doctors and others would In very desirable. He believed that unde l the Commonwealth Act there was m right of appeal, hut only the rigid ti apply for leave to appeal. This cow t rywould have to hoar its share of the tee of suck works as the (.ram-coutimnial railway, irrigation, etc. Me did no think the people of this colony would he prejudicially affected in regard ti appointments in the Civil Servh-e. Ry Major Steward : One very strong guarantee that the interests of the smaller States would not he sacrifice,'! by the eomhination of New South Wales and Victoria was, lie though!, the m;;I mil jealousies of these colonies, whir would prevent them combining. ■ TESTIMONY BY A MERCHANT. Mr David Nathan, merchant, of Wellington, said his firm did business with Australia, hut it had no branch there. H.e believed that the advantages of federation were purely speculative, and that Ihe cost, to the colony would run inti, several hundreds of thousands of pounds. The market for colonial produce iva. England, so that it did not matter much whether Australia had a protective tari/i. In times of drought Australia would have lo take our produce. New Zealand did very little trade with her, and Australia could grow most of her own produce,. Now Zealand, he thought, could held her own in the manufacturing line. Ale, of the sugar consumed in New Zealand came from Australia, and the loss of revenue from that source would bs very considerable. ■> By Air Beauchamp; He thought i: would ho better to form an Imperial noliyerein and for New Zealand to join that, instead ef federating with Australia. Me thought, that a reciprocity treaty would ho entered into. OPINIONS OF PATENT AGENTS. Air E. S. Baldwin, patent agent, said the question had been discussed at the eonlerence of patent agents at AJelhourne, when tho conclusion arrived a! was that federation would bo disadvantageous to New Zealand. From an An-glo-Saxon or Imperial point ef view, federation, lie thought, was advisable. THE QUESTION NOT URGENT. Mr Malcolm Macpherson, genera manager of the Now Zealand Loan am, Alercantile Agency Company, said ho did nob think tne question of federation was urgent, or Mqyt tho colony would reap any special advantages thereby. 1: would cause larger taxation, owing to the additional expenditure which federation would entail. Ho did not tlm i however, that it would be desirable tl.a certain Now Zealand affairs should h managed from Australia. Although Nev Zealand and Australia had many interests in common, Micro wore ether:that, would lead to conflict. Too trade • with Australia was not such an iinporl;nfc one as many people thought, and lie ■ lelieved that if Australia wanted ou; irodnco she would get it, duty or m, luty. Australia, howevar, was now let: n need of our produce than it had beer, n the past. This colony had to look Europe as its market. As to inauufacures, ho thought those of this colon,', hould.he able to stand upon their own lattoin and compete with Australia. He c lelieved in the federation of the Empire, . mb thought New Zealand might as -well t ederate with British Columbia as with ( lust.raHn. t

Bv tlio Chairman : The extra taxation involved in federation could ho made up by taxing articles that con... not be produced in the colony. 11 el cud not think that the agricultural interest would be detrimentally affected by federation.

l etters were read at this stage from Mr W. H. Millward, general manager of the Gear Company, and Mr Gresley Lukin, editor of the “Evening Post,” requesting to be excused from giving evidence.—The Commission agreed to grant both requests. A PAPER BY A JOURNALIST. Mr James Izett, journalist, submitted a paper on the question of federation, which the clerk read. The paprv argued that New Zealand could not lie free from the influence of the largin' community adjacent to it. New Zealand, being rich in harbours, and standing in the highway between* Amei ica and Australia, would produce in this colony a sea-going and groat maritime race. The writer went on to show that from the experience of the past there were good reasons to believe that important changes would from time tn time be introduced into the Commonwealth constitution. There could he no finality in human laws. Ho contended that the love of country manifested by the old colonists would not be as easily merged in a federal spirit as would be the case in Australia. He was an ardent believer in Imperial federation. The question; of defence was most practical,while other matters were mostly sentimental. A COACHBUILDER’S IDEAS. Mr Henry Hurrell, coachbuilder, opposed federation on th© grounds that the conditions of labour were more favourable in New Zealand than in Australia, the wages in this colony being higher and the hours of labour shorter. Ho believed that freetrade would be seriously adverse to New Zealand’s trade. He said there were uo Chinamen engaged in the furniture factories in Sydney. He did not believe that wages in; New Zealand were too high, but the effect of federation would be to reduce wages. He believed that federation would be generally injurious to the prosperity of the colony.

A SUPPORTER OF FEDERATION. Mr Peter Robertson Russell, saddler, favoured federation, because the large population of Australia would afford extended markets, while it would enable New Zealand’ to convert hei loans with Australian at a, lower rate of interest. By Mr Leys: Ho did not think that manufacturers in New Zealand had anything to fear, from Australian innn.ifaeturers, and he believed that in the course of a. few years the balance of trade would bo in favour of New' Zealand. Mon in New Zealand were aide to turn out more work than those in Australia. He was of opinion that ike industries of the colony would progross under federation. By Mr Beauchamp ; He was of opinion that the tariff that would be imposed by the Commonwealth would te protective in its character. He believed that the safeguards provided in the Act were sufficient to prevent the interests of this colony being sacrificed. By Mr Millar: If New Zealand did not federate, he thought that Australia would import grain and other produce from America and other countries. In the event of federation, he thought tho colony would bo able to convert its loans on favourable terms and effect la considerable saving. While in favour

I- of federation, lie would not agree tc e this colony entering the Commonwealth under tlie present constitution. ! MR JOHN Df'Tilil.'S VIEWS. " Mr John Jluthio, iiu;reli:int. Wclt linvton, said lie thought one advantage 1 of federation would be that they would 1 have more stable legislation. He thought, however, that the question of p distance was a harrier, and he aho ' thought that this colony would dcv.nop national characteristic., of its own. He ' thought the best attitude towards the question was for New Zealand to stand out until it was seen how federal ion ' worked. He had not had sufficient time : to study the financial aspect of the suh- ' j ec t. His opinion was that the t inff ■ that would be imposed by the Federal Parliament would be largely for revenue purposes. As to the amount of produce taken by Australia from New ' Zealand, there was a considerable amount of misunderstanding on the subject. A good deal of rhe exports to Australia were transhipped from there !o other parts of the world. Iho market, he thought, was over-rated. The effect of New Zealand’s standing of the Commonweal!would, in his opinion, press hard upon some oi our industries. As to the effect upon our agricultural industry, he did not (hi ilk that it would be greatly injured, as the market ior our produce was iauulon. He did not think that local administration would he curtailed, but that on huge questions Australian influence would predominate. The Federal Parliament •would not take much interest in New Zealand affairs. There was a great desire iu Australia that New Zealand should join the Commonwealth. He thought there was so little to exchange between Australia and New Zealand that there was scarcely any necessity for a reciprocal treaty. By Air Luke : He did not think a “white Australia” was possible, and the question of distance was a fatal objection . OPINIONS OF A WHOLESALE CHEMIST. Air John Kays, wholesale chemist tSharland and Co.) disapproved of the Commonwealth Act in its present form. It was not adapted to New Zealand’s wants. He believed New Zealand would benefit by trade with Australia under a moderate tariff. lie did not think a moderate tariff would injure'New Zea'and industries. Goods from Australia would bo sdnerior to shoddy from America. Tlie present exports to America would, under federation, be transferred to Australia.. Sneaking broadly, he believed New Zealand would benefit bv federation with Australia. He thought the condition of the working classes in the neighbouring colonies inferior to that of these in this cnlon.v, but a reduction of win many classes of industry in New Zealand was inovit°ldo though it would not bo hastened bv federation. Pv Air Luke; He believed that the Federal Parliament —en’d net justly towards the small State-. T?v Air Reanchamn • Ho felt that f i- n -ornime-eial bouses in Meiv Zealand would •>ot. ‘iiffo r 7r> comnot’f’on with the lnr" n 'nc+rolian bouses. Thp fr>edf. llr ,.T n-ouh 1 ,- e to Wf>l up wages to the Now Zealand t dnrfl. The Comr-../iirmrned po a.in. tdl 10 o’clock this morning..