PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume LVII, Issue 2583, 8 August 1895, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL,

Wednesday, August 7. The Speaker took the chair at 2.30 p.m. . PETITION. The Public Petitions Committee reported that the. petition of Gerald FitzGerald "was not in order. A CONFERENCE DESIRED. Messrs Shnmski, Swanson and McLean were appointed managers on behalf , of the Council to confer, with managers of the House regarding the Council’s amendments in the Criminal Code Bill. bill-passed. The Property. Law Consolidation Act Amendment Bill passed its final stages. employers’ private benefit society bill. The HonT. KellV moved the second reading of this Bill, which ’was introduced from the House,‘ The Hon Geo, said the . Bill really was - one to extinguish “ the Union Company’s; Benefit Society," He should mention that if a man belonged to another benefit society, the Union Company, did not : call upon him to join. the Company’s society. It was unfair, ho considered,,to have those repeated attacks made upon the Union Company. The Company was one of which every colonist should be proud. The shareholders, he assured,the Council, did not make so much out of their capital as some people supposed. In only one year the company had xiaid Spar cent, and ithad fallen so low as l.por cent., and last year the dividend was only 2 per cent. The present Government Boomed to bo determined to do their best r to hamper the Union Company. The Company at the present time wore paying .£1 pur mouth to their seamen, &c., more than wore paid to similar men in Australia, but'ho warned . the Government that if the Company were to be badgered as the Government wore at present badgering them, ‘the Union Company would engage their, hands in Australia, which would bo to.the benefit of the Company, , In his opinion a great deal of false sympathy had been expressed with “ poor Jack," whilst not a word of sympathy Was over-evinced by .. the legislature m favour of the poor commercial clerk, whoso really only privilege was to wear a good coat, whilst at the same time ho received loss remuneration-than “ poor Jack,” The Hon E. Biohardbon, regarding the Bill as an unwarranted attack upon a groat colonial industry, moved as an. amendment that the Bill bo. read ,-a second time that day six months, . i. . - The, Hon, Siif G. S. Whitmore seconded the amendment. - ‘Ho know for a'fact that ■ the officers apd men J ot ‘the- Union. Company’s: fleet wdrp‘ thankful;.‘to the Company for having, initiated ..}:heir benefit tUUd. ! - : 'i .. ■v. • . . The Hon J.TSioa, remarked that as the oppose-ra of the Bill had exhibited so much warmth it. appeared to him there was more in the Bill than at first there appeared to bo. It scorned to him- that ; the "directors of . the Union i Company had bound, their people' under the provisions Jof their benefit society, and had bound them very tightly t 00... He could assure the Hon Mr McLean there i was no. nead., for, the Company’s benefit society, except fqr thp. reason tjiat unless a man agreed to join the society he was discharged. The Hon Goo. MoLeap ' had not told tho Council it was Compulsory on tho! port- of the. Union Company that, their employees should belong to - their benefit society, ~ln this compulsion rested tho ovil, and therefore he should vote foe the Bill. , , , Tho; Hons E. Pharazyn and Dr Pollen supported tho amendment,, ' . Tho,Hon W. M. Bolt supported tho Bill. Prom very good authority he was informed that if a man in, tho employ of tho Union Company,was i insured in another company and refused toi insure in tho. Company’s benefit society ho was virtually shunted. The Hon,C. C, Bowen,opposed the Bill on the ground; that it 1 prevented employees and employers from combining itogothor for their mutual benefit.", , ~ The Hons W, Swanson and W. H. BoyHolds supported the amendment. Tho Hon W,T. Jennings supported the Bill, if only to permit its being referred to the Labour Bills Committee. 1 . The . Hon Mr Siibimski supported tho amendment. , The'Hen .Mr Jenkinson, [supported the second reading. - The second'. roading;was lost by 20. vptes to 10. , k . , The Council adjourned till next day, HOUSE OF BEPBESENTATIVES. : .-Wednesday-, August 7.; r-.*- v , ; -The Speaker took-the chair at p, u i FINANCIAL, DEBATE. ■ Mr iE.i Mr- Smio;h, , resuming->tho debate ou the -idnancial Statement,, said- -ever,: since the present,. Colonial Treasurer had had the .honour.titoi .lay. i-tho Financial Statements before the House members had had pocasion .to -congratulate - him, Tho, Government, he contended,, were -not responsible -- for-the . -tinkering . '"of-, the tariff' that',had, taken placp. They were, ■ however, -respensiblo; for- a-'-sound finance, and this, they-were - determined to imaintain. -• What had-- resulted from pro-, vious : tinkering; - ■ with the tariff ?. . Wby, deficits year; at ter year. When the present Government; name into office they alteredall,this j -but Jet them stick ,to .the line of conduct- they - -had ■ tasen up in-tho -past. This reduction of ild-in-Sd. on the tea tax was ridiculous.,, He was - not going to find fault with the .Tariff, Commission, - the appointment of. -which had- boon forced upon tho Government; n What-ho objeoted.to m the tariff proposals; was that they- interfered with then policy 'of,-the..Government,.., As they -were going, the ; Government . wore -bringing peace, progress - and prosperity to, this grand country, of ours, and it was t ; wrong, utterly wrong, to interfere with - them in any way. He congratulated the Government upon their legislation gone- - rally, which ho claimed was in the -interest of, the masses. --Mr Allen said that the last speaker was a, worthy representative of a district abounding in natural gas. ‘ Like other members of the Government Party he had candidly disapproved, of' the most important of the Government proposals, but would no. doubt be fou'nd voting with the Government. ' Stripped of itspadding and verbiage tbo Financial Statement contained but little. Tboro were the usual figures on. the j past and the coming year, and several devices for raising revenue by means of additional taxation. He believed the Government had led the . House to believe that they wore going to spend certain sums of -money each year on public works and for other purposes while all the time they did not intend to spend anything like the amount asked for. "Tf this was not so, how - came it that the Government were out in the estimates of the expenditure for the past year to tho extent of JEB3.ooo 't For the coming year a surplus of .£93 57 was estimated, but if loan money was excluded from this there would 'really be a deficit. There were many statements in tho Budget calculated to mislead. The first ot these was the statement that the early collection of the land tax;had saved the - Colony J 611.000. Tho amount saved was only J 83736, and the saving of this, sum had caused great inconvenience and cost to many. The" alleged saving on intoieat and sinking fund was also' misleading. The increase in the 1 public debt of 21 millions proved " that the statementthat the Government were a non-borrow-ing onej was misleading. He taunted tho Government'with backing down-on their tariff uroposala. ‘ He urged that themining

' industry should be given more encouragement.. . ,■ . I Mr Buddo said the Controller and Auditor, in conjunction, with the Government, were responsible for the figures in the Budget. (Cries of no.) Ho said yes. Continuing; Mr Buddo went on to refer to the details of the' ' Budget, ■ expressing regret at . the falling" off in the Customs revenue, ‘.but generally approving of the Government proposals. Regarding the export of timber, ho saw no reason to fear a scarcity—the more timber taken off the North’lsland the better that island would become. for pastoral purposes,' and a much greater, industry than the timber trade, would spring up.. In connection with the land settlements scheme' he urged the opening'up of. land for settlement near the centres of population. Local valuers, he contended, were necessary in connection with the scheme. Unpaid valuers could bo obtained in the same manner as Justices of the Peace. .He was entirely adverse to any, reciprocity treaty. with South Australia. There was something to say in favour, of the proposals in " regard to Canada. .There was an opening there for some 'ot, our ,industries,' but it had to be considered ’ that the Canadian timber would seriously injure our timber trade. The tariff proposals of the Government ha considered needed amendment in certain directions. He disagreed with, the proposed, increases in-the. salaries of public servants. The 5.30 adjournment" interrupted, the . debate. The House resumed at 7.80. Mr BuddO; continued his. remarks. In these,times of retrenchment ho thought the Colony's, little standing army should

bo dcno away with. The Volunteer corps woro quite suificiont for all tho Colony required. Ho advocated adjustment of tho income tax, which, compared'with'the land tax, waa monstrously, unfair to the farmer. Ho .believed 'the government wore making vigorous efforts ,to meet the requirements of the Colony and grapple with the existing depression Sir Eodebt Stout, before, dcaling-.with tho Financial Statement, commented on tho action of the Colonial,Treasurer in addressing the House aud' r'6fl(liilg ; a statement altogether occupying three ' hours, while members were expected,to discuss all that had been laid before them' in one hour. Ho complained also of tho delay on the part of, the Government in bringing \ down returns.’ The Colonial Treasurer, he said, had' been placed In a ! humiliating position. Ho had brought down his Financial Statement" ;and'; tariff ■ proposals, founded on the , report _of an expensive commission,-: andV-hd ,:nOW came down and said tho House could do what they liked with it, , Now; as to our financial position. Our debt was gradually increasing and our sinking funds disappearing, and tiio result was to j bo'seen in the necessity for 'increased ’taxation. Sihco 1890 the increase in tho public debt had been J)!.',991,100, and the increase stated in the Fimihcial " Statement was misleading. Tho Government had used' J 8734.439 of , sinkin'g ; ! funds. Ho said " used ” because, ‘ the. (lOlonTal Tre'asuror objected tp tho tefhi ''.Shined.”' The' statoment in i'egilrd, to ''the’ mtor&t ’ heebunt was entirely inoortect.' 1 The 'tables 1 in the ‘ budget would lead anyone to believe that in 1895 there, was £216,712 loss* to, pay than in 1894;' Thai'wlis, not', So pit : whs' simply the method in Which the table, was prepared that made it appearjq6.) ’ 'lnstead': of a deoroasoj in' the;' interest 'anti; sinking fund account, there‘wits really an increase ; for tho year of .£14,105. , Proceeding, Sir, Robert went On 'tO deal in detail wltir tho conversion operations of the ' Government. 1 Thoie operations had .added to tho 1 debt; of I tho. Colony, and, as he had' already stated, increased ,the

interest account.' Wow, ho .came to the question of the seizure of'sinking'funds. Mo contended that tho Colonial Treasurer had seized some '■i£!2o,doo of the sinking funds of tho GoVorriirient loanb to'local bodies. This was distinctly 'illegal', : The Loans to Local'’Bridies Act had provided that by Inekns of a. sinking-fund the lean in 20 yeafS'would bo paid off.'' In 1884'.tfii Act was passed allowing the‘ Conversion' of loans, but, it was entirely" erroneous' .to interpretitHls ' iis -giving'pe#et to Aoize. sinking funds.;' The' Treasurer’ claimed that this Act gave-him that power.-' lie was wrong —it was illegal and Unwarrantable to seize thesoifunds. Tho Tfcasurorhad admitted the wisdom of .providing, sinking funds to pay-off Atir debt, and/yot ho’fiow' came down ' with' h" to illegally; impropertyAnd' without legal;'warrant the sinking fiinds'that-would-go' to pity off a loan. It . A'ds entirely misleading to say that .21,177,0(10 of the public'debt was earning 6 per -cent.' ; It'was'riot so. . Now ho turned to tho question of the surplus, and would shOw that there'cbuld bo' both a surplus and itdefioit. (Laughter.) If borrowed moriey was eliminated; from: tho reAeriiio r ; for , the year, there was' ft deficit of''' J822ff,1f)4; ' '/The’'; 'surplus df' J .£180,600' odd .’wps' 'obtained by bringing forward Irist 'year's-'surplus of, jg2oo,C3o‘bfldi(iind adding to th'dt borrowed money, rdflking A total of 'JB4OD,'2IB. - Now as to the general state of things., The thb pakt year, had ’earned, loss thrift .'fM'pto-;. posol to cijllfict' fffd; land, '.tftk-IH Mfch’of' every yßtor' hd" J cdnd^lhnM’.“. It I ’.'Was A matter ''tlAt' BhAnld^'’be’ il lhft :!, td'' i th6 House. „Tho .in the Budget, meant !! an J'dnriireas’#' ‘f'/n'. 1 - order to 1 grit' mone^'-ffom' Avery ‘possible means, the widoVwas to’ be taaied'by stamp, duties. ' Tfl’O tiaffl'jppfiimM ttor»ige(l''tbß revenue and gave no relief to ’ the people generally. He''voritrired to'-sity' that‘tho, estimates 1 :' b'f ;',tKe; tnllnrib'r I ';' id ’ AhlciT, tliA revenue'woliltl lie 1 aifbctccl by ' those proposals were, 'fnislbadlng.p Npw; As to the' proposed fjiiiilidiiih BA ventured'‘to think tliiit tho 'GoVorrinient ■ luidnot ; ' : eotoidemd4^n6t I .a meAbArj'onth'p'’ Cio toad the,Cahadiiln', treaty at alL('‘;' ! ‘ ■’ 1 p'' * I;'"''/';,/'.' "i',",',,' 1 Mr VV'ifebl'haferoad'ftthroughfromstart tq'fffiiahl’'' : ‘/I’ Sir EopeAr - , Stout 1 , Apn-, tended that It’ivas'the iSOO’tAfiff v'tnat'Mr: Ward hod readrrft very different, tariff tA that noif m'fowia:' he quoted from thp tariff in,- question- lA'sdpport'Of: bis contentions. 14 tho ' , lVoas'iiijrpifs;acdotint' of tho 'Conodlop 'tariff. All wsbl; 'ji"' tbit' important' '‘item, * iv'as ‘'Act. 1 ‘ owt- Ari sefrijj; liable to tt’duty qf 'l'ld’’iri ! tHAlb : as a matter'of.fact, ’ certain'® Of wool that conld. Aot' be raised .’itt; Capada, •wore admitted free,/ -There 1 ; were other' similar’ blunders,-stowingthat 1 tile -Government' proposed ; de‘ Afitor'lnto' a tariff treaty with a country whose tariff they had not road; 'Now, tfbdt^jtitij; of tho Government in ’ regard to /inanpo ? Wo were to ;'have' additional bunions eivt upon UA by '' increaflod mail 'sorvico and. reciprocal, twmties, and how "were' 'these' burdens t 6be toot'? ’it was hy increased’ stamp dutfes and .by adding to 'the, taxation 11 of ''thA'Himrkirig' ‘classes 1 by .'the proposed alterations in New jZpaldnd tariff. They' had; heard ''A’’’ Jot''of "what 1 the so-called Liberal Government feud done for the work'iriff ! cf&Ab's. '"Never' before W the history of the Colony had the workers been in WOfse; p6sitioii. ! 'iHe did not' charge the Government with-this, but he merely wished ito 1 point out; that'; the workers were -really *in ! aworso position than when the Government' came office. ' The'’ Bridget l, proposed' 1 ' irioreMsedl taxation' ‘ and 1 < increase l '- i.of i (the 1 a public l debt. -InsteridOfthiii thepolicystohl.d, bo one of economy.' The Government-should 1 leave tho^preigfl : 'l«one3-lender aloud And encourage akA'industries. - There Ivaa- no light thrown '-upon, tlm futuro prospects of i the ColOnV, nb'Bght’ittoown'upon'a-mearis of reducing 1,1 tobtim c-It iwkb merely AitAteWvdt6*,Budget, ,dld; lleij. deal thing hetter Was fcroiight down mnat'provol oalaiaitorm'to thS*®o|ipp)»J (Applause.) Tho npeechojust-de-A ivory able :p>vo>.: judged l -by ■ tho mlnneii-'inGyvhioh-'it'‘had heph' re-, coivod by-the-'enemi(S9 of theipeoplßg -'llo would prove-that’thO policy of; the present; Governinhht was’progreßaive' hiit pi’anticalr They didiiot Hay oiio thing arid do anOfciiOr. Ho would'prrive that 1 judged-by*'the' pastthe Coldny'Aiia'perfocfcly -'flafo'in the hands' of the present GovernWerit iiud -'the -party behind' them'. 11 ■'Sit Kobcrt'Stout had- protested Against-the time-limit System, bub' he had ’ hMself' maudy tq' blftinA for tho* time-limit' system being bnfdrcod on this' eccasion.- 1 ' i- - - -

Sir Robert Stout 5; The Premier did nob keep h* ward. 1 •• di" l • 11 *‘< - 1 The Speaker'said bo - «oyld' Eot allow this assertion. . .. .

Sir Robust Stout ; Thou I will say Premier Ipado ft .pledge that hd 'did not 1 keep. (Laughtdr.)., ■. . Tho Pjbesijebj Tie, hon . gentleman never did keep the pledges ho makes. (Renewed laughter.) 1 Continuing, Mr.Seddon! said that. the, statements made-'by ~.tho. Colonial Treasurer In to the onepritios would bo fullyprovqd.,Slr RoboctStout had said the Coionial Treasuror waaplacadin J a most humiliating, position in regard to, tho tariff proposals. Tho Colony was greatly indebted to the Tariff Commission for its services., without, which tho (Colonial Treasurer would, not have been jablo ,to bring down , any ...proposal*, likely/to prove acceptable ..to .tho. Colony. The Government' had, not been able .'to adopt all flip , suggestions * of, that, Commission; but, .they had done what they thought "best. Kow, what 1 had tho Colonial, , , Treasury. done , to make his position humiliating 9 Ho had merely asked the .Bouso tg copsidsv the tariff proposals irrespective, of party—a course adopted by Sic Julian Vogel. Rut Sir Robert Stout himself, when in '.office, bad moved to rosoind the, tariff propp,sals of his . (Sir. Robert, Stout’s),, own party., Who was humiliated fhen ? ' Mr Scddon, continuing, quoted,ptter instances to prove precedent for'the course.:pid(epted' by the Colonial .Treasurer./.Bow, in regard to these tariff proposals. The country bad expressed . the . opinion .. that there was perhaps some danger in soma of the proposals, and'the .Government wore, only, doing what they always 'would do, be ruled ‘ by the majority, iUaqhmitting to, alteration in these,by,thq /Bouse. ‘ 'Sir Barry Atkinson bad done exactly tho thing, and had ho’been accused of boing'humllintod thereby £ Tho Colonial Treasurer had acted quite,fairly in this matter, He now came to’ the 'question ,’pf the public debt/: Curing ‘ the time ; Sir. Robert Stout was in office, from JBBI, to 1887,.he had increased tho public debt, by 1 j£ff,2Xo,3lG; ’from 1888. to 1891; Sir Barry Atkinson’s Government had increased it by £4,2?4,C96. Jfbw here was the 1 bright, sjde this. Hjfhen the present’’Government' came into office in 1891 the gross debt .was £38,830.0fi0, while it wasinow £ft0,386,9(?4, showing; an ‘increase of only ’ '£1,536j61‘1., (Sir Robert Stout; What about,the net debt ?) ~ The figures of the net'debt showed An increase of £2,291,724 dor tSu) .four years, as oompared with ',the’increaso of.. three millions in one year, in /Sir, Robert Stoat’p. term of office. .But . apart from this, the , eMpeudi-, tore of^jthis’.Jmpney',. by, ..the' .present. Government was' in ' a '‘special way. ■£1,362,817 of It wae invested at a profit, to’ the Colpny,and, the increase in the debt was therefore, really, only ,£193,769. Coutipn-; ing, he';‘referrad.,td . the different items, making'.pp‘', r tho . 1 £1,362,817/ which:' he claimed; wei;Vall;invested ,to', the profit oftho Colony./Be;hoped in .the,face of this that the. Government, would hear, ho more of this "cry .of .the , increased' indebtedness of the Colony'sqfai^aa,the present Government v?4s‘'oonce;med.Y as ,to the* surplus'.’, 1 1 tU'iSSi Sir Harry Atkinson had a deficit of £71",66(7, but if the revenue and expenditure w.ejre calculated. on the standard now set Up by Sir Robert Stout there would have been,;ft deficiency'of £193,713; and ju swtigp gf '■ 1889, ‘.instead ,» s«r-

pins, of -£01,820, there - would havbeen a deficiency of £274,213. Continuing Mr Seddon quoted other instances when such a standard of reckoning,would have i similar'effect of reducing surpluses ant nicking; deficiencies greater. It was, unfair lip contended, to now depart from. thi ordinary , methods, of comparison. , Th< manner;in •which'the balance-sheets hac been prepared was according to law, and h was a Wrong, thing _,to accuse the. Govern meat of -making-. 1 ) bogus surpluses. , Corn pare the results of the. Work of-those making these assertions with the results, of the Ballance - Seddon administration, and it would redound tp'fh’e 'creditof.the present Liberal Party. • The -' conversion operations of the Government had been a good thing, for', the country. Sir Harry Atkinson; had 1 saved some .£33,000 byconversion: Operations, last’'year the present Government had saved .£04,000, and ho expected the amount would bo greater this year. He was surprised at Sir Robert Stout condenming'what had been done; and denied that " the People : of the Colony were at all misled' by the Budget; Then, ait to the '. use’ of the sinking " funds, ho ' contended that the Act of ,1884- was ' passed for tho purpose of . allowing 'Governments to' do exactly what that'the present Government; had .done. ' They were simply carrying out the law.' They were not so hard-up for inoney that they need do this. As to Setting; aside the' money for sinking funds, the StoutVogel Gbvernihpnt had: not sot aside one penny nhdef 'tbp^.Ab’t 1 of 1884; and'neither had' - .Sir ‘Hafry"'Atkto'tbh. * The" late Mr Bflllanoe was the first Colonial. Treasurer to. do this;’ ;-Under ' those;.: circnmsfanties it'yvaa almost'’bbrdbfing ■ oh’’'Audacity to.""say that the Government, had unlawfully And improperly and Without legal warrant seized the sinking funds." 'DitfSir Robert: Stout mearr to lassort that the Auditor-General had .conspired with : thb Government to ' allow them' to usO the money? The Government were,acting on the advice of tho Rgal’Advisors in this matter, and would continue’fb act on that advice until the law was altered? It was true'that the railways had not earned as much last year "as in ,tH6' past, but; tho railways 'were ’ entitled' to, claim' credit for carrying the ; htoils. and 'thA: services rendered tho diffnrent.pUblic departments, for which nothmg ’wak, at tho'preseht time paid. TJip. Colonial TreaSrii'et Was 'wise iri fixing a time fcf the Collection of 'the' land tax; and in regard to. thb 'Cahadian.Tiiriff, wh‘y Mr Ward had brought; a copy of the tariff him from’ Canada. Sir. Robert ’ Stout! had right, to sa’yjhffliadhot read it." ” The'workers ‘'Of New" Zealand wefo intelligent,, and well knew, what Sir Kqberf Stout and bis following,'were, .doing.; ’lie; (Mr Seddon)-. could go into’ the details: of "the Tariff .band ; the .'’'Estimates , 'a'iid 1 .sbbw fb’at;(h'ey v wOjrq 1 . 'all The’ increases On the,'’Estimates'.. was; a, .paltry i odd; while; bn' the' departments orUduoatiOn; Rolice ah'd'Pos't and Tele : graph; their three most important departnitihtsj the inc , roiisS: W’a9"'Js2,ooo'’”; Yddhc.tiOns had been made .in others, Afr Seddon had his conclndifigilfetodiksiantefriiptbcl by,the,-time limit. He resumed his seat amidst applause. ici :mV- - .• 1 Mr G. Hutchison deprecated the reference of the Premier; in,’.'speaking;.of lithe lawyers of the House' ’as:.:onemies:of;the people, The: fact.rthat-members of the legal profession.were,,elected,to th.e ,Huusu., showed that they liad thaconfideace of the. majority of their constituents. „ ; , The Premier wonld .havo done .better .had., lie referred to' tho-'J’inappial Statement instead of dealing - with, the actions, of, past Governments; and;;endeaVOuringite make wrpbg doing in the past an excuse for, law breaking now. ,! Tho, present -.Goyonimeht bad constantly denied that it had borrowed and the speechesduringbhoidebath proved, that >t had; ; Ho granted that some of the increases<xf the 'debt: were i justified-, and. quite meritorious; >lTbp weakness; of; the: Government - lay; in i thS -,'faofc <that; -they t claimed to bo a non-borrowing,’Govern-ment, while as a matter of fact they had borrowed, * and borrowed I on- tba sly. Borrowing in the past, bad the, merit that ityttas) dorse abovetooard-Ma an open man-' nor.' Now, as’ to,the'seizure, of ..these, moneys, that had been accumulating* os' ; a. sinking fnhd to fho deans ,tQ,dp,cid l bodiea ! ;;' l lt.wae.. quite' true"that until Mr Ballahce came'into office nothing Hkd’bcen set aside' for those stoking/funds.;-,-Bdt whyiwas it, that the Government ha<j iwtofced until this year before. seizing the. Money set aside? With |t.f .. tfeiii.^rep. niler could have known that' these funds" were- avaiMto® .;-and,,ye.t ;; nQt f used , them,. Some lawyer;must ijayo,,put,him, up,to a wftokle .On, technical ’reading of the .Act by, which ho might'seizo tbe.fundsj, .But at.thp enidjof the gibypars, jyben tbe's.injiwgifundsyif 'ieft alone, i would bWO paid off the loan—would not then the local alii boritieO-Wbo had borrowed the money be entitled to, claim p per diiotion ini their j interest;charges;' He condemned, tbel.proposal to;.;collect .the land tax in. March as mosttojnriqustq;thefanning community,,''Xbe .toenduqtl pi , tlie Gbfbpfel 'treasurer ifil regard to, the .tapi®proposals Jpe . ppnsidefed. defrimental and injui'ipus to the lebwpkepCe and 'pebjile 'of ‘the Colony.;? RdyOfio realjy'lkpew the. 'Gbverhmoht intended lb ao'inl‘p.bb.jmaftof..l Mr Hutchison went on Jo? refer 1 to’-tlie' 'fjuestibn of. the ( date, pf ,-tSe. f t£ree, millions', Worth! of IsepuriUee' London,' '(to»tehdiiig littepaucps., "op j 'fbeyipubjept, 'lix jCdtfaph' Were 'toebpreef ’ nhd‘'misleading, .’Turn-: ing to,, the ..Budget,, proposals,,l.ll6;':,sajij' the Budge’ll'tJjp y ytopst'f, ppplix 'evpr’ laid before the ;House- ■ ing charactoristiboftheSiMement’waetbac. if it Was not bluff it was puff.' He aamittod, 1 that’fhe 3 per cpnt.,ipan,,had j; heen..,a, splbndid success—a "greater...successlthaii jspnt bf the merabprs of. .tha Opposition had ;4#ipltotod.i'Xf jwasitrue.i.that-j-the.-ratp.of interest Wflg Ml tog, but the; Government in, no-way deserved Ppp'Jit for thfar-ilt would Rave’ peen ■ loVeiVibut’l for fbp legislation. ,pf, the ptßsonti Govarnmeut., Tba: fact .was thitt- there were -millions locked up lu- tho batlks|that investors had not confidence to in nthoir,Colony,, a Nowuas to the ‘finances (ftpiihg ’cwning.year. udWestartedi the'year with ,* of £lßo,ooo*and. the surplus at '.thoj oiid' ,bf - sypar r was ' afitieipated !at-, something.; like ’Jefb.Qwi} add yet iniß-thelfncO- bf this ,the;ColbniaLi - jaid the (.Opposition ‘wanted .to < getMt 9 jtlfft, .fpawsnty. (Benches.^.,qObj4o.. 'Xbe.Gov,eraißetoiMdtoM tfe e rosy times; lat them sitb-tbe'fts# that were cmningrthough oply, be thouglit, likely to be.-iSmpoßflpyr -.The, public,y/iorlfa policy of the Government bad, to bis opinion, been m-rttOßferrytotoiWr^Cne, It ' had induced large numbers of people to cotodyohbro ft wHo,-idewing to tho falling off in.—the expendi-. turo, now found themselves -out, of - em--ploymout. Tho opofations of,- the year in respect to the New Zealand consols had not boon a success.; ;.-Oufsido tho'iJIGO.QOO; IVortliihold by tho Bank of New Zealand, only ■£80(10' y-orth had .been taken up by tho, public!. Tim c 5150,000 had been deposited m thq ColoniM kad been responsible for the manager of tijat institution congratulating tbe- of the Bank upon the daot tpat - tlifi deposits in the' Bank * hod increased ■: during, .the, year by ■ -513G,000. .'- Thetreaty • .withoCanada’ was-: efppngly ,, to- the (interest - off Canada, and the uaaty yyith - South ,-Australia .-rwoe wholly bad, and be upgfvi the House, to cast it onfc and-ask, -for a . treaty. --Let tho country-have (some- policy oeuuectipn with the tarifl. not this itinkering that had takepjplium, Tlio for Lubouk, continuing the debate after tfia-snppop: ,a4joppj}mont, congratulated tho provions speaker upon his utterances, mad also on fhb fact that ho was tholiest-member of the Opposition who bad during tho present,debate been able to speak for an'liour-without - being called to oidorjfor unparliamentary language. Mr Beeves went on .to refer briefly' to tho time limit f system, which -he considered preferable 4» tfw Jangthy speeches of the past Tie thought->ntewbprs - could do much more good for tbafiby discussing the Jrmancial Statement at npxW length. He agreed with Mr Hutchison thpt prlyate affairs should not bo dragged into the debate. [ Mr Hutchison in his speech had barked back to tho old question of the I million of - securities, oven-after theColonist freaaurer-had-been- rtbree times acquitted by the House. He was pleased to see that rHpjMjllJSdp fS’dmitted the success of fhVloan, ‘i!nd 'Sjhcf with "commendable frankness iiad ' adwi'ttod that the Opposition propheeies to regard to the loan had. been .failures. They .were continually making 'false prophecies,' and yet. Mp- . Hutchison , had gone’ on to piophesy, jvpap pyonld be the rate of . interest 20years bunco, Opposition could .prophesy vntfi certaipty cjz jnonths bonce the Government'. yofiM ,begin ( tp place some faith in their prophecies pt '2O years hence. As to borrowing, the' Government never claimed.tp bo nourborrowing, but they -demed that they harried bn borrowing fo tho terrible pitch alleged against thei/i; and they showed that, compared to previous Governments, their .borrowing, was much loss. ' as to tho appropriations for tho comtog, year. -The increases.'could' not bo avoided.' Pop instance, half of the increase of £30,000 was due to tho necessity for providing'for increased attendances at, the schools. Ho was proud of ,the necessity for this increased expenditure of £16,000. A' great portion of the increase was to .connection, with the post and telegraph services, which should li()t bo cramped, ~, Apart'fpopi this, the investment in this direction wo/j a psmpheratlve one. ' Sir Robert .Stout Jpad assailed the Government for taxing the poor svidoyj and widower -by, stamp duties. He (Mi Beeves}would_pointentthaf the "poor'; widower .would not bo taxed, unless he was left £7OOO, and the "poor " widow would npi have to pay anything unless she inherited .mole than £3OO n-year. Surely members should reserve-, their, .sympathy for mors deserving. flasesA ' Another charge againsl ,the Treasurer was that he had.underestimated the revenue, and over-estimated the expenditure,' "A- Colonial Treasurer must err on'Ctoa ttob 97 the. other, and

■which was it preferable to err on ? So long as the Colonial Treasurer only erred on tho safe side ho did not think the people of the Colony would' complain. Then, as to the increase of tho public debt. They had had this over and. . over again. He did not think there was a single member of the House likely to' be misled by the tables connected, with the public debt. As to seizing the .sinking funds, this, allegation had been,. fully answered by the Premier. The Auditor-General had passed the action of the .Government, and.therefore all the ..attacks made-.fell upon that gentleman. But the Auditor - General should not bp blamed., because it had been done legally, properly, and with warrant. Tho next question was the surplus. Opposition members differed as to the amount of this, and, contradicted themselves in the same breath. They said tho Government could not carry on after the end of the year, and at the game time accused the Government of,increasing the, taxation to enable them to carry on. Which was correct? Sir Eoherfc Stout had deplored that thero were so many men out of work.. They all deplored it, but who was responsible for it?, Why, Sir . Kobort Stout mainly so, ~ Was it not he who killed the Bands for Settlement Act, which if passed in .1893 would have provided work for hundreds of ( unemployed ? Who. had attacked thp. general policy 'and financial proposals more strongly than he ?,and in doing so he had, contributed to tho ranks of the unemployed. ~ Turning to the tariff proposals of the Government, ho said.he. did not know any Government in this Colony that had said : it would, stand or fall by its tariff. Had not Sir Henry Atkinson adopted the game,'course as the present. Government 'wore' now, doing, and Had, not that tariff been, much,improved,Tfrofii a Protectionist point, of view,,’by. ’ the. ’ action, ..then taken ?, Sir, Eqbert Stout, However, blamed the Government, whatever they did, .It was not fair play,,, and the country would no doubt recognise this., ■ Members_ would agree with him that the more tho [ principle was pushed, to its logical extreme ‘ —the principle, that the opinions of many mep wero,bettor than one —-the better it would be. This was the principle now .being adopted by the Colonial Treasurer in connection with the tariff proposals. It was not, .creating uncertainty, for,, all traders; know, that when the tariff proposals l come «. down , , they wore liable to amendment ...by . the .House. Tho "Colonial, / -.-only , .acted as a prudent, man ,in , regard to the proposals,. and neither in, the newspapers nor in j the speeches had any basis been shown for the, wild assertions as to the increase jn taxation likely to follow. It was nonsensical to say. that the suggestions of, the Tariff Commission had been flouted and .ppqsqd’over, . Item .after item had been agreed .to by I thp,. Colonial Treasurer, and 'thqyvary proposals most attacked by. members ancl.tboinewspaperpress were the sug.gqstjqns of the Conference. .The,Government had, not, lightly adopted.any of, the, tariff proposals,, .It *, might be said, that the, reductions , made did not amount to much, but there were six items which .jraeant; a reduction to ,the consumers of -£i!i>,oo() per annum,,* It was said that this would not benefit the consumers. • If, the Hopse; thought so they could take ■ thp, whole • of, the, <££s,ooo off one article—purely that would help the consumer. ( If; the blouse thought the pro-., teotioiflto, :thq< industries, provided in the now. tariff < iW a 3 purchased at too great a, cost; the government would,not offer strong, opposition ,to ,amendments. l ,,, , ; They.,were, ■willing'to,submit.to'thp,-amendment of the tariff ISo long as it was dealt with in a reasonable .andlalr ; manner, and nqt, made,, abortive and ineffective. Tiffs had been done; with Sir Harry .Atkinson’s tariffi; Members sank party, considerations / and; made the, tariff a ; good, one for,the country. Ilp did not aslc the Opposition to do, this, because they*6qnld not, but the Government supporters ho urged to,- do what would b°; a gb’ed thing for the country—do consider the tariff .in pebrond. spirit and by, making it as ffbod as possible ,df/ ; a .lasting service; to New! Zealand,*rii. : . On thp,,motion of Mr C. ,H, MfLiM the debate ‘was adjourned, and the '.House Irose at 0.15 a.m