PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume LV, Issue 9970, 3 August 1893, Page 3

PARLIAMENT.

tfeoiSLATIVK COUNCIL,

WKbNESDAY. AUGUST t The Speaker took the chair at 2.30 n, m. OTXqO HARBOUR BOARD EMPOWERING BILL, The Hon J, moved the second teaejiufi ,of this Bill, < * Tfio Hon K RiCiiAKi>»-)N said.tho Council should oxclao clause 6 which provides that ail moneys received by the board upon any sale under the provisions of the Bill should bo applied as part of its ordinary revenue. The Attorney-General said the Hill was merely designed to enable the board to utilise to the boat advantage certain pro* portion which belonged to them, without prejudicially affecting the interests of anyone concerned. t The lion U. PilAkaSyN objebted to tfee Bill ou tho broad ground that it ought to be a local Bill. , .

The Hoo George. McLean remarked that undoubtedly Ibe Bdl was a local Bill. He objected strongly to clause 5, and thought that after the second reading the Bill should bo referred to a select committee. After further discussion the Hon J. MacGregor replied, remarking that clause 5 would not in the slightest degree interfere with t v o present righto of the bondholders. The second reading woe carried on the voices, and the lion S. E, Surimski gave notice to move, * That the Bill bo referred to a select committee.’

NEW BILLS The Cheviot County Bill and the Ward Conservation Bights Bill, introduced from the. House of Representatives, were fsad the first time.

MANCJAWAI UARDjUR ENDOWMENT REiHEKTffi ■PII.L The second reading of this Bill Was moved by the Attorney-General, and carried on tho voices, and the measure was referred to the Waato Lands Committee. PAYMENT OF MEMBERS BILL.

The Attorney General moved that the amendments proposed by Uia Kxoelbrcy the Governor in this Bill bo agfaed to. Tho motion was agreed to on tho voices. m.UUSTRATfa COURTS BILL. Tbh Bill was further considered in oom« mittoo. Tha Hon C. C. moved on amendment to the proposed new clause, 155, restricting tho appeal on matter of fact to any claims oVer £SO, leading tho appeal on points of law to oases in which tho claim does not exceed £2O, with tho leovo of the Court, or withohb each leave Where the amount fxooeda £2l. -Tho amendment was carried by 14 to 12, and tho clause, os amended, was adopted. Several other clauses proposed by the Joint Statutes Revision Committed were added to the Bill; which was then reported with amendments. Tho third reading Of tho Bill was set down for Thursday. TIMBER FLOATING ACT AMENDMENT DILL

Thin Bill was further considered In corn* mltteo. Progress was then reported, and the Bill was referred to the Waste Lands Committee. The Council then rose. HOUbE OF KEPEESENTATIVES. ■WfiDNESDAV, AUGUST 2. Tbo Speaker took the chair at 2,30 p.m, BILLS READ A TIKST TIME. The following Bills were read a first time : —Referendum Bill, Mr O’Conor; New* market Hall Act 187* Amendment Bill, Mr Lawry. TUB CO OPERATIVE SYSTEM, Mr Fisa moved—’That a return be laid before this House of all moneys paid and expense incurred for plant for the co* operative works throughout the Colony, the carriage or freight of name, paid or due, also all travelling charges or other txpensfio for tbo men (not wage*) engaged on those works; also a return showing the number and rank of all those engaged on those works (abjvo the workman), and their salaries or wages, travelling allowances, and the number of men each inspector is in charge of ; also the total cost, exclusive cf labourers’ The Frbm’Eß said the return wonld bo a moot expensive one, fie considered that if a proper contrast wero to bo made it would be necessary to have a return also which would show the ojat of the ordinary coo* tract system. The deductions by the do» partment for (he use of plant should be stated in the return. The motion was agreed to. SESSIONAL COMMITTEES. Mr Carncross was appointed a member of the industries and Manafaotaies Commit-* toe.

Mr James Mills was appointed a member of tbo Labour Bills Committee, TUB PALMER-REVEtL INCIDENT.

Mr Fish moved—-’That there bo laid before this House a copy of the evidence taken and the report of the Inspector of Lunatic Asylums in the celebrated Jackson Palmer cum Kevsll enquiry, together with the terms of the apology made by Rovell to tbo honourable mombvr for Waitemata,*

Mr McLean said that the motion waa a waste of the time of tbo House, The Government BttUdiogs were swarmed with canvassers and book fiends; and he waa assured that the messenger mistook Mr Palmer for a canvasser Mr Buchanan thought that the blame rested with Mr Palmer, who did not ex plain to the messenger who ho was. He was sorry that an apology had been wrong from the messenger, who, oo far as he con.d learn, was in the right'. Mr Bruce did not think that Ur MacGregor should have boon asked to conduct tbo enquiry. Mr Ta> lor considered that the messenger bad simply done bio duty. Mr G, Hutchison said that if all they heard was correct, no recommendation was made by l)r MacGregor. The Hoo W. P. HEETBSsaid that neilhoi of the parties was entirely blameless. He did not see that the return wonld do any gcod. V At the suggestion of various members, the motion was withdrawn. THE RUATOKt INCIDENT. On the motion of Mr Sheba, it was agreed to lay before the House all telegrams and correspondence relating to the survey of about 80,000 oorea of land in the Uriwera country near Euatoki. STATS BANK. Mr Taylor proposed a motion to the effect that the Government should bring in a State Bank Bill, embodying the principle of a State guarantee to depositors and ctbeis doing business with the bank. The discussion was interrupted by the 5.30 p m. adjournment. LICENSING ACT AMENDMENT BILL : A STONE* WALL. ’When tho first order of the day, the Licensing Act Amendment Bill, was called at 7 30 p m., Mr Buckland rose to a point of order, contending that the Bill was eubst-ntially the some as the Direct Veto Bill, Introduced earlier in the session, and he submitted that two Bills to the same effect could not be introduced in the same session. The Speaker said that when two Bills proposed to effect the »ame object in different ways, they wero virtually separate Bills. Ho ruled therefore that Sir Kobt. Stout was in order, SirFoBT Stout then moved the second reading of the Licensing £ct Amendment Bill. He said no apology was needed from him for bringing in such a measure, as the subject was exciting. Interest all over the world. Tho Bill was really a very slight alteration of the existing law, and proposed merely to frabmit throe additional questions at licensing elections —namely, whether any licenses should bo granted, whether the number of Ucenrec should be reduced, and whelhor tho number of licenses should bo increased. The provision io clause 8, tint a member of a licensing committee should cot be disqualified by reason ot any pledge to reduce tbo number of licenses, or to refuse all licenses, waa thought to bo law already by a large section of th» community. The Duly pthernotublefeature was that thereuhould bo one polling day for tho whole Colony. The Bill

was so slight; so small an alteration of tho law that ho really hoped the House would agree to the Pill without di*cusaioa or de bate, (Laughter,) Ho urged that this question should bo removed from politics; Did Hon members wish this question to be (bo chief question at tho genera) election, and everything else to bo ignored ? If ihiy wished that, they would find that those who wore anjdou* shat no. Licensing Bill should pfl.js would lire to regret it. It was In the iotoronU of good government that this burning question snoulci be remitted to tho people. He did not wish to say a word against those engaged in this traffic, many of thettl wefo good; kind ahd honest man, and It Wan util'M fur tho total abstainer* !o throw elrirs updn thorn if they did not throw slurs upon the inou6.tatd dricluf also. Hs wanted yj ask too House to oonei-’er why ibis ilcenilpf: qiipetiop had j?o c**me to the frsUt, Xt was. one ox tbo sighs of the age. They saw eimiia£,sf&io al! oVvr the world—the signs of tho brotherhood of man, Humanity was not going to stand aside and

see bo tie of our best and brightest coals oast to the depths by indulgence in intoxicating liquor. Humanity, was determined by education,, tigitnVori chd legislation ,to see If this blot could not be re-

moved, They wanted (hat. kind of morality

preached by one nearly two thousand years ago, *lf rno*t maketh my brother to stumble, 1 shall eat no flesh for evermore that L make tiOb my brother to stumble.’ Ibis Was tjllo Finality wlrcli would have to bo more* preachcJ in tho* rcHd, ho siibmilled, than it bad boon in tbo pidt. Sir Robert Stout spoke warmly of tbo evils of drinking, which ho described as tho social cumo of tbo ago.

Mr Saunuku* said that the Licensing Act Introduced by tho late Sir William Fox had been oc.naitlored a great step in advance, but largely failed because of the apathy of iho teuiperafabo party (hetaaelfes. He ordsidered tho present bill a Very Jafge aifiendment, ond ouo widbh lie hoped would bo carried. As a result of the work of Hands of Hoco, a large number of people in the cimmunity had been brought up without being allowed to acquire tho taste for strong drink, and would therefore approach the consideration of this Bill without prejudice. Colonel FnAfJKi; urged that the totnperocce party hed pinned faith the Diraot Veto li.B, tho principle Or which’ ho approved ; and ho accused the friends of tho Bill btforu tho House of shirking tho question, and attempting to gain the principle of tho Diroot Veto BUI by a side wind, Tho ou‘y clause in the present Bill which ought to be passed Was claaso 8, tinder which a member of a licanaidg committee should not bo disqualified By reason of any pledge he had giron, Tho Bill did not provide for compensation, and ho maintained that justice should b« done to tho publican as well as to any ether man. H the Fill parsed, the country would lose half a million pounds of rbVeuue, The Pkemjkr said fcfyat everyone would admit that this Was A iiioat i^n^Qrtat^t sub* joot. He believed that this question overshadowed that of women’s franchise. The country ebould understand that the Bill was not the Direct Veto Bill It maintained (he principle, but in Its details there was considerable modification, and many in the Houao would be ptepared to voto for it •a ho would not veto for the Diroot Voto Bill, ihe Government asked members to be rtasonablc. ,110 hoped that ffleiftbefd would not rosotc to tho forms of tho Houin to burk debate. if the Government saw;' alter a fair debate, that it was the general deslro of the Houao they would accept the responsibility, and deal with tho Bill. (Hear, hoar.) Tho Government was not pledged to take up this Bill, bat hoped to bo able to carry a measure which should be fair and reasonable, and give satisfaction to all. (Laughter.) It would perhaps bo necessary that he ehou/d explain himself further, and he would say that be did not think it would bo wise to attempt to please tho extremists on either side. He would vote for tho second leading of the BUI.

Mr Bul'Ca regretted that the Government were not prepared ti give tho HouSo a lead in this matter, or to deal with the grout question of tho liquor truffle He was prepared to vote for tho second reading. As for the argument that the roVenne would be crippled, be pointed nut that if the drink traffic was abolished one of tho greatest causes of poverty and lunacy and crime would be done away with. Mr W. Huxoeilson supported the Bill. Ho could not congratulate the Premier on tho position he had taken up in the matter. Ho Urged that tho districts under tho Bill should be sufficiently large to endure that the experiment Would bo workable, TbU advocates of compensation had not made out a case for themselves. The Hon W. F, Beeves sa ! d he found himself in the unfortunate position of going into the opposite lobby to that in which bis chief, tho .Premier, would vote. Ho bad given a pledge to his constituents that be woh Id support tbh existing law during the maintenance of the present Parliament, and he bad given ib fur the reason that the existing law seemed, to steer a middle course between compensation to licensees on the one hand and Prohibition on the other. At that time it was Believed that the licensing committees bad greater powers than they had since been shown to possess. The Ministry, whatever they bad been elected to do, had not been returned to reform the licensing laws. The Government would deaLwith that subject only at (he decided wish of the House. Ho did. not agree that tho Bill was but a slight altera* tiou of the etistiug law. Ho con* sidernd its proposals drastic, and would ohoose political extinction rather than vote that the direct veto should by a bare majority become law. lb might be asked why one who claimed to be ia a sense a Socialist, continually crying out for State interference, was not willing to allow the fullest reference to the people. There %vas a distinction between Socialism and aacetii oism. The proper plan to reform the liquor traffic was to give the people the right df local option, but as the decent publican should bo encouraged, they were not doing wrong io giving reasonable security to the respcotablyoonduoted hotel. Mr Taylor bad given pledges in favour of tho Bill, and would therefore support ths second reading. Mr Willis would vote for the second reading if (he principle of compensation were admitted. He bad given this pledge to his constituents.

The Premier explained that he had not stated that the Government would take up this Bill if it passed its second reading. Tbo Government would consider the matter, and deal with the question as they thought beet.

Mr Fish agreed with the views expressed by the Hon VV. P. Reeves, and admitted that those engaged in the liquor traffic earnestly desired reform but it must bo on reasonable lines. He objected to the Bill on eleven grounds, which he enuimfatcd. Mr Fish addressed the House at great length. Having spoken for two hours and three quarters in dealing with his eleven objections to tho Bill, ho said he had coneluded the first part of bis speech. He continued until 2 o’clock, when Mr Fergus suggested an adjournment for ten minutes, in order that a settlement might be come to This was not agreed to. Sir Robert Stout woa amongst those who dissented.

Mr took the chair, in order to relieve the Speaker, and Mr Fergus moved that strangers should be ordered to leave tbo galleries. The motion wai canied by 21 votes to 17. Tbo stonewall was then resumed with closed doors.

At 25 minutes to S Mr Fish finished his speech, and Mr Swan took op tho debate.