PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume LII, Issue 9319, 13 June 1891, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. FRIDAY, J ONE 12. The Honourable the Speaker took the chair at 2 30 p.m. The Hon tho Speaker informed the Council that he had received a report from the Hons Capt. Bailliu and Mr Swanson of an interview they had had with the late Hon Sir W. Fitzberbert, on the occasion of their presenting him with the address from the members of that Council. The report contained Sir W. Fitzberbert’a acknowledgments and thanks for the kind expressions contained in the address of the Council on bis retirement, and would be laid on ths table.

The Hon Robert Pharazyn gave notice, on behalf of the Hon Capt. Morris, that on Tuesday next he would more the Address* in-Reply. The Hon P. Buckley referred to the sad loss sustained by the Council in the deaths of three of its most respected members, the Hon Sir W. Fitzherbert, the Hon W. Reeves, and the Hon W. 8. Peter, and he thought the present time was appropriate to pay a tribute of respect to their memories. On behalf of the relatives of Sir W. Fitzherbert, he tendered to the members of the Legislative Council heartfelt thanks for their kindly expressions in the address sent him of his retirement from the Speakership. In the Hon W. Reeves the Council bad lost a respected member. It was only a few years ago that he (the Hon P. Buckley) had bad the pleasure of introducing Mr Reeves to that Chamber, and he felt that he bad personally lost a kind and genial friend. Not only was be a kind friend, but he had proved an honest, straightforward politician one who, though ever taking an active interest in politics, had died a poor man. In the late lion Mr Pe«er he felt that he bad lost another kind and respected friend, and the Council a straightforward hard-working member. He thought that as a slight testimony of regard in which the deceased were held by that Chamber, the least the Council could do would be to adjourn. • He moved that the Council now adjourn. The Hon Captain Baillie seconded the motion, which was put and carried unanimously. The Council rose at 3.40 p.m. HOUSE OE EBPBESENTATIYES. FRIDAY, JUNE 12. The Speaker took the ohair at 2.30 p.m. Epairaime te Mutu Kapa, the new member for the Northern Maori District, was presented by the Native Minister, and duly took the oath. It was decided, on the motion of Mr Palmer, that all petitions not dealt with last session be referred to the Publio Petitions Committee. The Minister of Lands gave notice of bis intention to introduce a Land Bill Mr Fisher gave notice of a motion by which the Government Banking account should be distributed amongst all the banka doing business in New Zealand. NORTH ISLAND RAILWAY. In rep'y to Mr Palmer, the Hon R. J. Seddon said the portion of the loan available for the North Island Main. Trunk Railway was £292,276. LOAN CONVERSION. In reply to Mr Fisher, the Premier said the correspondence relating to the recent loan conversion was iu the bands of the printers, and would bo available about the 15th inst. NEW BILLS. Leave to introduce the following Bills was given, and they were read the first time : The Eight Hours Bill, Mr Fisher; the Coroner’s Inquests BUI, Mr Taylor; the Agent-General Limitation and Office Bill, Mr Fisher ; the Games and Lotteries Bill, Mr G. Hutchison; the Borough of Sydenham Endowment Bill, Mr Taylor; the Companies BUI, Mr Fisher ; the Manual and Technical Elementary Instruction Bill, Mr Fisher ; the Dentists Act ISBO Amendment Bill, Mr Palmer ; the Public Schools Bill, Mr Palmer; a Bill to Prevent the Sale of Intoxicating Liquors to Children, Mr Fisher ; the New Zealand Institute of Surveyors’ Bill, the Hon Mr Richardson ; the Juries Aot Amendment Bill, Mr Palmer ; the Electoral Bill, the Premier ; the Civil Service Bill, the Premier; the Wanganui Heads Signal Station Reserve Exchange Bill, the Premier ; the Coalmines Bill, the Hon Mr Seddon ; the Promoters and Directors Liability Bill, the Qon Mr Seddon ; the Mining Bill, the Hon Mr Seddon. SESSIONAL COMMITTEES, On the motion to appoint a Petitions Committee. consisting of Mr Earnshaw, Mr Fish, Mr Houston, Mr J. Kelly, Mr C. H. Mills, Mr McGuire, Mr Moore, Mr Swan, Mr J. W. Thomson, and the Mover, The Hon G. F. Richardson pointed out the majority the Government had on that Committee. The Premier in reply said be thought the Committee was fairly constituted. Mr Buchanan said most of the members were inexperienced, and new to Committee work. The motion was carried on the voices. Mr O’Conor, speaking to the appointment of a Committee to provide for the comfort of members, reminded them of the debt they had for years been saddled with, and thought some steps ahonld be taken in the matter. The Hon Mr Seddon said he had no doubt the Committee would enquire into the mat* ters.

The motion was carried on the voices. THE BABBIT NUISANCE INSPECTORS. On the motion to appoint a Committee to consider matters relating to live stock, Sir John Hall said that Mr G. P. Richardson should be onjthe Committee, in order to give them the benefit of his experience. Mr Richardson thought the mover of the resolution was wise in omitting his name. Serious charges had been made against the Department by Mr McKenzie, and he thought it would be better to disease them in the House than in Committee. No illegal expenditure in regard to the appointmeet of inspectors, as stated, bad been made, and it would be discreditable to tbo Colony if snob expenditure could take place. The success of the Administration had been proved by the increase in the number of sheep in Otago and Southland, and they had been equally successful in decreasing the number of rabbits. What better proof could there be of the success of the administration ?

The Hon Mr McKenzie, in reply, said if he found on coming into office that the eix inspectors were not doing their duty he had a perfect right to take what action he pleased. He had to deal with the fact that the work in the Sonth Island was imperfectly performed, and Otago was never in a worse condition In that respect than at present. After eight years’ experience of the rabbit nuisance, those animals were more numerous than ever. He had a return showing that last year £8443 had been spent on the destruction of rabbits, which had been spent, not on salaries, but on contracts made by the officers. Mr Richardson said no contract was made without being first submitted to Wellington and approved. The Hon Mr McKenzie asked bow they oonld tell whether the contracts were contracts were carried ont, and said that was one of the chief reasons which induced him to make the appointment of a Chief Inspector. Since he had been in office he bad had to approve of sums of money which Mr Richardson, bis predecessor, bad nob approved of, besides which he had proof that several of the inspectors used their own horses and charged for the nee of them, and also their own bouses as offices, charging rent for the earns, He was prepared to es-

plain every action ho had taken during his term of office. Mr Richardson asked whether it would not be better that proofs should bo laid on the table of the House, so that they could judge as to the action which bad been taken. Mr McKenzie : If you want proof, take the proper course, and move a vote of no confidence in the Minister of Lands. The committee was appointed. THE UNEMPLOYED. Mr Fisher moved a resolution dealing with the necessity of providing work for the unemployed, and said he brought it forward in memory of the late Mr Maoandrew, who in those early times called attention to a subject which was now engaging the attention of the best men of the present day. He was quite aware they were doing a good deal for the relief of the unemployed, but he hoped they would not stop there, bat do even more to cope with such an important problem. With a climate and soil unsurpassed by any other country, they could not only not induce persons to occupy the country, but a large number of the inhabitants were yearly leaving for other places. That was the question they hai to deal with, and although he could not expect immediate action on the part of the Legislature, he had brought the question forward in order to afford the Government an opportunity of explaining their views on the subject. Mr Kelly seconded the motion.

The Premier said the Government hai had the matter under consideration, and would make proposals which, he thought, they would firid satisfactory. (Hear, hear.) He would, therefore, ask Mr Fisher to withdraw his motion.

Mr E. M. Smith also spoke. Mr E. O’Conor opposed the motion, ridiculing the idea of putting the poor into possession of the land without any means of subsistence. . Mr Fisher, In reply, thanked the Premier for the generous manner in which be had dealt with the resolutions, and with the assurance that the Government would deal with the spirit of the resolution, he had much pleasure In withdrawing it. The motion was accordingly withdrawn. HARBOUR BOARD LOANS. -Mr Fisher moved that a return belaid before the Honee showing the amount raised on loan by each harbour board and each borough and local governing bodies in the Colony, and the rate of interest payable on each loan. The motion found a seconder in Mr Thompson, and was carried on the voices. AMENDMENT OP THE CUSTOMS TARIFF. Mr Fisher, in moving his resolution for an amendment of the Customs tariff, said if the country suffered from excessive interest 1 on tho loans and insufficient revenue, there ought to be some alteration of the Customs’ tariff. He should claim the Premier’s vote, because it had been part of the Liberal Party’s programme in 18S7 that the duty should be taken off tea, and be should : therefore also claim the votes of his colleagues. The motion was seconded by Dr Newman. The Premier thanked Mr Fisher for hia attempt to assist the Government, and said the amount of duty proposed to be abolished was £263,864, the value of the luxuries proposed to bo taxed was about £55,000, and in order to obtain a corresponding amount they would have to place on these articles a duty of 100 per oent, besides which they would prevent their importation to a great extent. Mr Fisher had been a member of tho Government which raised the duty on tea from 4d to 61 per pound. (Laughter.) In conclusion, he refused to accept the I motion.

Mr O'CoNeR suggested that musical instruments should bo withdrawn from the motion, and a tax on mutton and wool substituted. Both of those articles could well afford it, and if Mr Fisher agreed to that be would be willing to support the motion. Mr Taylor said he thought Mr Fisher should have waited for the Financial Statement before bringing such a resolution forward.

Mr E. M. Smith said it was wrong of any member to interfere with the policy of the Government, and said tbey would be afforded every opportunity of discussing the question of taxation at the proper time. (Hear, hear.) The debate was Interrupted by the 5.30 adjournment.

EVENING SITTING. The Speaker took the chair at 7.30. ADDRESS-IN-BEPLY.

Mr McGuire moved the Address-in* Reply to the Governor’s Speech. He said he bad been selected to do so as being the last-elected member of the House, and ho occupied the place of Sir Harry Atkinson, who was unable to be present, and who had always distinguished himself in that House. He thought the Speech would have a favourable effect on the country, and when they looked back on the Administration be thought they deserved great credit at the hands of the taxpayers, who had for years past been labouring under heavy taxation. It was to be regretted that so many public servants had been deprived of their offices, and although he faliy sympathised with them, yet it had been found necessary to retrench, and the Government deserved great credit for the manner in which they bad performed their task. He hoped the Government would take steps in reference to the distressing property tar, and bring in an income tax and graduated land tax. (Hear, hear.) The property tax had been a bar to industry, and he trusted the Government would be strong enough to carry a measure which would lessen the burden borne by those who were the backbone of the country. He thought a large revenue could be obtained from taxing the totalisator ; it was a great luxury, and he considered it should be taxed as well as beer, spirits, &o. He tuggested a Bill should bo brought in putting a sixpenny stamp oa each ticket, which would bring in £200,000 a year. Coming to the land laws ho thought they had not given as much satisfaction as was expected, nor had the Government been able to get the right people oa the land. He considered that they should institute the system of Perpetual Leases ; they must make up their miud not to sell any more land by the Government, and ha hoped they would see their way to bringing in a measure of this character in order to settle the people of this country and the land. As to the Native lands there bad been a good deal of discreditable work going on ; they should baud over the land to the land boards, so as to give email capitalists an equal opportunity with those of larger means. Then again, another injustice was caused by the Natives using the roads and paying nothing for their nse. In regard to education, he thought the Boatda should be done away with, and everything be centralised in the Department and Inspectors. Universities had no right to be supported by the Government, they should bo self-supporting or merged in primary schools, and if that were done the expense would be considerably lessened. Ho thought a National Convention would do good, but of all things be hoped reciprocity would ensue. They owed thanks to Sir George Grey for his efforts in regard to manhood suffrage—(hear, bear) —and he hoped it would be altered still further for the better. The Bankruptcy Act should be removed from the Statute Book, and as to the laws they should be made understandable by the meanest capacity. He was pleased that his Excellency, as the representative of the Queen, bad met with such a good reception both from the House and the Natives. (Hear, hear.) He hoped the House would work heartily together for the good of New Zealand, and if that were done the time was net far distant when she would enjoy an unparalleled state of prosperity. (Applause.) Mr Buies, in seconding the Address-in-Reply, said if they were to judge the present Ministry by their works they were superior to any previous Government. He bad every confidence that if the people would only confide their affairs to them they would see the tide of prosperty roll back to their shores. To do that they must declare the days of borrowing to be gone, and tbey must live Jwithin their means, and cease to live off other people’s money. He expati* ated on the evil effects of such a system, saying that with the stoppage of borrowed money trade at once diminished, public works ceased, and there was a plethora of labour. Taxation too became higher, the price of food and raiment was increased, which fell with increased severity oa the working classes. It was, therefore, important that they should stamp their foot on the system of borrowing and squandering—(applause)—and instead of scheming bow to spend their money they mast consider how to extricate themselves from their difficulties. He knew of no better method of doing that than by trusting to the present Government. (Hear, hear.) But when this policy of retrenchment came in, each district insisted on remaining itself intact, which made the present Government considerably harder. Whcnitwaafonad necessary to reduce the expenditure each district must be willing to give up something, (Hear, bear.) He knew that hon gentlemen opposite were prepared to underrate the efforts of the Government, but he could tea no reason for such a remark. Bat even supposing that the Ministry bad acted in a personal manner, did they in that respect differ from any previous Ministry ? It had been said that this retrenchment did a good deal of barm by making too much of a stir, bat he believed in a good stir up occasionally. He was glad to see that a Bill was going to be brought in for classify* lag Civil servants, and which would put a stop to the pernicious system of paying compensation to discharged Civil Servants. (Applause.) On the whole, he thought they bad every reason to be satisfied with the Address, but he was surprised they had said nothing in regard to Federation. Perhaps they intended to await events before making any declaration, but however proper that might be on the part of a public body, he thought there could be no barm in an individual member uttering his sentiments on the subject. He was not willing to band the Colony over to a Parliament which ignored the 4< on© man one vote * principle, and legislated rather for property than for men. Such a course would be ruinous to New Zealand. (Applause.) He dilated at some length on the attitude of Australia in regard to Protection, saying that the fatp of a Protectionist connlry was never a happy one, and he would never consent to the suicidal policy of shotting their porfcq

against; produce which could be brought to their shores at a loss cost than their production in tlao Colony. If Federation came about they would have to insist on absolute Naval defence, although ho asked why in this Christian century he wondered why they should have to bo taxed for such pur poses. He ventured to say they were too insignificant to be attacked, and if England involved them in war she must horaolf protect thorn. But os a matter of fact .England bondholders had too groat a stsike in the country for thorn to apprehend anything of the sort, and if England refused to defend them it would bo better to sever themselves from the Old Country and toko abettor under their neutrality. With regard to tho reconoilia- • tion of labour and capital, ho said it required no small courage to undertake the work, even if legislation was going to settle it at all. His opinion was that Government should not interfere, although ho thought if tho working classes were put in a condition of independence encounters between capital and labour would bo loss likely to happen. Breaking down monopoly would c-fleet a groat deal in this dircction, and es the working classes were the mainstay of the country, it was Incumbent upon them to effect a reform in that direction, although at tho same time he iu no way wished to underrate the importance of capital. Ho did not say that the Government should supply everyone with a living, but they should supply everyone with the means of petting a living. (Hear, hear.) Tho question of reconciling labour and capital wan on important one, and if the labour of the Government did not result in success, they could attribute it more to a weakness of the flesh than a want of spirit. Much of the friotien between labour and capital might bo overted by doing away with monopoly in land, and if that wore done tho conditions of labour would bo greatly improved. It was to tho settlement of the land that ho looked fora true sola, tion ol the labour difficulty—(hear, hear)— and tho existing system of large estates would ol nooessity, in time, give way to the system of small holdings. As to the Electoral Bill, ho thought it would do much to elevate the standard of Parliamentary elections, although it was not perfect. He was of opinion that the state of the poll at country polling bootho should not bode. dared there, but at tho central station, which would enable working men to record thoir votes without their employer being able to dieooier in which direction their votes wore given, Ho paid n high tribute to the memory of the late Hon W. Reeves, and in the name of tho members of the Liberal Party expressed their regret at his removal from among them. (Gear, hem.) In conclusion, he said the policy of the Government was practical and commoroial, and ho therefore bad very much pleasure in seconding tho motion before the House. (Applause.) The Hon W. Rolleston naked if the Premier would consent to an adjournment of the House till Tuesday. If so, he would bo prepared to move tho adjournment of tho debate,

The Premier said ho believed it was the feeling of the House generally that the debate should go on, and he saw no reason against such a course being taken. (Govern* meat cheers.) The Hon J. Bryce moved the adjournment of the debate, saying that ho keenly felt the discourteous conduct of the Government, They would Jose no time thereby, and it was u sufficient reason for doing so that many members present did not feel prepared to continue the debate. The Premier asked whether .the Government had violated any customary rule. The rule was that after tbo mover and seconder had spoken the leader of the Opposition took up the subject. (A voice : We have not got a leader —laughter.) The proposer and seconder of the Address only had one day to prepaire their speeches; did the members of the Opposition expect any more? No discourtesy was intended, and they could if they liked continue the debate for an hour, and so and then adjourn. Mr Macarthur said many members were absent, and they had bad no opportunity to elect a leader, and ho, therefore, thought they were perfectly reasonable in making a request of that kind. He was of opinion that under the circumstances their request should have been acceded to. The Minister for Education said it was not the fault of the majority that the Opposition had not elected a leader. They were simply following the precedent of past sessions, while the present Government were in opposition, and yet they wore now accused of discourtesy by following the same practice. Mr Fisher said what he wished to diaems was the recess administration of the Government.

The motion for adjourning the debate was lost on the voices.

The Adclreas-in-Reply was then agreed to, and formally drawn up and adopted, and ordered to be p? esonted to His Excellency at such time as might bo convenient. The House adjourned at 10 minutes past 9 till 2,30 on Tuesday.