THE FEDERAL CONVENTION.

New Zealand Times, Volume LII, Issue 9274, 21 April 1891, Page 3

THE FEDERAL CONVENTION.

RETURN OF SIR HARRY ATKINSON,

(by our special reporter.)

Having received the Editor’s iiietraotione I colled upon air Harry Atkinson, and »aa plad to eoo him looking much better than the telegraphed accounts represented him. It was idy pleasure therefor© to begiu by congratulating him on hie appearance, and assuring him that a large number of people would bo gbd to hear that he was so much heartier than they had been led to believe. Bir I- nrry, alter thanking mo for that expireeir.n of poodwill, b»M that ho hail not hoen well in advantage of the many kimlneßßes offered him with the other delegates, but I gathered that ho had been able with an effort to attend to tho basinet which bad taken him

over to Sydney, iio wm kind enough to intimate that any information on the subject of that business which he was at liberty to give waa at my disposal. We plunged therefore at once “in medias res.’, Tho first point of course was oa to tho opinion Sir Harry had been reported to have expressed. Yea, he had been quite correctly reported. Ho waa very decidedly of opinion that New Zealand would bo a gainer iu every way by Federating with Australia, but not under tho Constitution Bill which had just been adopted by too Convention, The financial position under that measure would bo absolutely impossible. Without counting our share in tho oipenao of Federation, wo lose largely by joining. The Customs reveuao would bo so much less under tbo Federation.

I pointed oat that you, Mr Editor, bad taken up this point, by comparing tho results of tho Victorian tariff and our own; that yon had shown there would bo a loss, supposing the Victorian tariff to bo tho taiitf adopted by tho Federal Legislature ; and colling upon the Government to get tho particulars calculated. "That,'’ said tilr Harry, “has already been dono by tho Government Statist at Sydney for tho Convention. Speaking from memory, 1 cannot give yon tho exact figured; but I cau give you a substantially correct version. Under our tariff we collected last year something like £1,500.000. Were the Viotori.m tariff to bo substituted for our own tho Customs would, according to tho Government Statist, who has calculated tho par* ticulars on all the items, give us £-100,000 kss. It io plain that unless tho Colonial Debt ho taken over as well as tho Custom? revenue we cannot meet our obligations. But as the scheme cf Federation does not propose to take over tbo debts of tho various colonies it io impossible for ua to join.’' After some conversation on this subject, in tho course o! which Sir Harry expressed hi? regret that we had nob sent over seven delegates as the other colonics did, wo got to tho question of the Federal Executive. “ The Bill does not provide for responsible government as far as 1 can see ” I remarked. Sir Harry explained tho position at once. It was quite true he said in effect that the Convention did not provide for a responsible Government, Nevertheless tho opinion of the great majority of tbo Convention was that responsible Government would be adopted. They wore not on much enamoured of Responsible Government as to bo persuaded that nothing bettor could be devised. Criticisms, he reminded mo, wore very freely levelled in these days at the system of Responsible Government. Tho Convention did nob wish to tie the bands of the Federal Legislature. Tho law given to that Legislature, tho Convention thought, should leave the question open for the Legislature to deal with. He had no doubt, and nobody else had any doubt, but that the system of Responsible Government would bo oatab* lished, just as it was established in New Zealand, though tho Constitution Act did not provide fur it, established when “we, the Commons of New Zealand,” as many colonists remember, insisted upon it. But the Federal Bill left the question open for any amendment that might bo discovered and adopted in tho future. Tho Federal Constitution Act would nob out tho Federation off from any improvements. That waa the

position. Ab to the loyalty of tho Australians, which was naturally tho neat question to come np, Sir Harry could aay that undoubtedly the Convention, with one ot perhaps two exceptions, was absolutely loyal to tho Crown and perfectly sincere in its desire and intention to federate under the Crown. As to tho feeling of the people, he could not, of course, speak with the same knowledge. There la of course a National l J arty in every Colony. As far as ho could gather, its feeling about tho Imperial connexion might be turned either way at any time. It might become enthusiastically loyal—the stress of a great war might do that—or it might bo replaced by a desire to bo independent ; that result any stupidity of mismanagement might produce; like the coercion policy, for instance, now threatened in the case of Newfoundland. Tho Australians certainly would not stand coercion in any shape or form. The popular mind, at present, as far as Sir Harry could gather, was not of a pronounced ebaraoter; but his impression was absolutely oloar that tho Convention desired union under the Crown.

Tho impression having been formed in my mind ttinb if wo had sent seven delegates to represent us the Australians might have solved tho financial difficulty hy accepting the principle of Foderoliaing tha debts, I gave expreseion to it daring the talk. Sir Hairy explained that be bad not meant to convey that impression. “ Every pnblia man who stays at home gets local,” ho said, "Inevitably. We want our public men to see other public men, to exchange ideas with them, and got acquainted with the interests they represent. There was not a publlo man who went to the Convention that did not go away much improved in many ways.” Wo came to the reasons why Now Zealand should join the federation. France and Germany, Sir Harry said I give the general drift of bis remarks— have their eyes on ihe islands of the South Sea, with intent to become powerful there. Without combination we have no power either to move rapidly against danger ourselves or to get tho Home Government to move rapidly. If seven of us are giving different views to the Homo Government, it Is nn excuse for them to do nothing, and they will do nothing. Whereas a combination representing four millions cannot be pooh-poohed. That Australia will Federate is certain ; it may or may cot be under this Bill ; some say it wih he, and some eay it will not—“ for my part 1 have hopes that the Bill will succeed,” said Sir Harry—bat Australian Federation in some shape or form is certain. If three millions of Australians speak with one voice, who will bear New Zealand ? “We shall become like Newfoundland ; and our interests in the Islands will be completely overlooked.”

The commercial advantages would of necessity be groat; we should not only got tho advantage of the abolition of tha fiscal syetem under which we now pay £141,000 a year on onr produce in Australian ports ana only collect £IB,OOO in return on Australian produce in outs; Vie should also find that tho trade in these lines wonld very largely inoresae. Referring to tho objection mado, that Federation would sink us into a provincial groove, deprive ns oi our best public men and so forth ; Sir Harry said that the same thing had been said hero wrongly sa events had proved against the abolition of tho provinces. To him it seemed that the very fact of belonging to a larger organisation would raise onr importance. "I should not feel halt the man I am, if it were not in my power to say • I am an Englishman.’ If we join a powerful combination we raise our ideas and oar standing. Of course 1 should still want to remain an Englishman.” Sir Harry having thus spoken proceeded to give a number of illustrations. A man, for Instance, who belongs to the Senior United Service Club is a more important man than if he belonged to tbe Junior ; tho differences are well known between men who bavo novor got beyond a private school, and these who have stopped short after a public school course, and those who have gone on to tbe university. An Englishman never says he is a county man, bat he says, when be wants to define his position in the world, "1 am an Englishman;” be does not say “ i am a man of Kent, or Surrey, or Devon,” as the ease may be. Tho American States are not dwarfed by their union, their public men are, on tho contrary, greatly enlarged in mind, and their large cities, like New York, Baltimore, Boston, have not a provincial standing. Having gone through his progression of illustrations Sir Harry made it very plain that he had not much respect for the objections of the timorous. We pass from Federation to tbe appearance of Sydney and its people, A great town, certainly Sir Harry went therein 1883,when the Federation idea first tookdefinite shape. He and Sir Frederick Whitaker represented ua on that occasion. Visiting the place in 1891, had be observed any change ? He had observed a very great improvement. The display of wealth was surprising, and the commercial aolivity and bustle. Nobody ever thinks of stopping to look at a Euro peon steamer coming in. They arrive with tho frequency of tho interprovintial steamers here, and get no more notice from the people. There are all the signs of a vast commerce, great warehouses fall, tall buildings, handsome structures, crowded streets, the traffic in the main thoroughfares of Pitt street and George street, is as great every bit at times as ie any part of London. The streets are paved beautifully with wooden blocks, smooth and hard, and they are kept wonderfu;ly clean ; far better me the roadways than tho footways, in which there is something to bo desired. Poverty? Yes; there was plenty ot that too; shoeless, ragged children, and all the signs of penury, things not seen in our streets.

Bat what struck Sir Harry tho most was the appearance oE tho race. There was no sign that he could see of the deterioration of the Anglo»Saxon. Stalwort men and handsome women everywhere abound. Men of the second and third generations of colonists ho saw, in every respect like Englishmen, only larger considerably than the English average. As for tho proverbial “Cornstalk” he never saw him at all. Even the children ? Yes« oven tho children. There was a school of 1500

children close to whore be lived ; his windows commanded a view of their playground, and he had seen them trooping briskly to school and away again in the evenings. A finer, healthier, rosier set of young people ho had never seen in New Zealand, As for the people, they showed no signs of sulTeiing from the climate ; moving always briskly about, alert, and vigourous. “The climate,” I observed, “was after all only try ing for n month or two in Sydney/' “ We f,. uud it trying enough when wo were there,” Sir Harry said, “Captain Hassell and I. We felt it enervaling, and very hot, but in tho latter particular the thermometer positively refused to agree with us. No doubt , it was very wrong of the instrument. Lut the people, with their brisk ways, certainly seemed to corroborate itd verdict.

Mention of the lamentable explosion in the hai hour found in agr ement on the moral of the story, which is that amateurs should nob be employed in the technical branches of tho Service, and carried us to the subject of the colonial forces, “ A very line body body of men,” Sir Harry said they were, lit to go on ony service—roost of them main* tained on tho partially-paid system; excellent material for soldiering,” Had he seen any New Zealander*? A good many, and heard of a good many more. .Some wore doing fairly well, others were doing very badly, others rubbing along in the intermediate unsatisfactory stage ; all ho saw and many he heard of were anxious for au opportunity to get back to the “ Land of tho Maori and tho Moa.”

Here itstiuckino that I had trespassed enough on Sir Harry’s time and privacy. So with many inward regrets at being forced to break oil a pleasant conversation, I thanked him for his courtesy and took my leave.