LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

New Zealand Mail, Issue 1648, 30 September 1903, Page 59

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 22.

The Council met at 2.30 p.m. BILLS PASSED. * The Arbitration Act Amendment Emergency Bill, No. 2, was received from the other chamber and passed through all stages. The Police Offences Act Amendment Bill was.read a third time and passed. The ; Council then adjourned. WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 23. ? The Council met at 2.30 p.m. WELLINGTON DOCK. The Hon F. H. FRASER moved the recommittal of the Wellington Harbour Board Empowering Act, 1902, Amendment Bill, for the purpose of reconsidering clauses 2a and 21) inserted on the motion of the Hon Mr Twomey. In doing so, the Hon Mr Fraser said there had been a considerable amount of misapprehension on the part or lion members when the Bill was previously under discussion. The matter was now better understood, and he proposed to move to strike out clause 2a and insert the following new clause in lieu thereof: —“2a. Out of the total loan moneys authorised to be raised undkr the authority cf sections four and ten of the Wellington Harbour Board Empowering Act, 1902, the sum of two hundred and fifty thousand pounds shall be set aside and placed to the credit of a special fund, to be called ‘the dock fund account': provided, however, that such sum may be contributed from any portion or the -said moneys, and not necessarily from the first portions thereof.” ” Also to strike out the words “ancillary works,” in the third line of clause 2b, and insert the word “purposes” in lieu thereof. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he was quite prepared to support the recommit ial of the Bill and the proposed new clause, but he could not quite acquiesce in the hon gentleman’s statement that, there had been a considerable amount of misapprehension with regard to the Bill. The Council, he thought, had come to a very deliberate and well-considered decision respecting it. The amendment proposed by the Hon Air Fraser did not make very much difference, except-that the Harbour Board would not be obliged to set aside the first £250,000 raised. It was felt that tlie Haibour Board'in its original Bill was seeking to do away with tlie security which had been earmarked for the dock. He believed the proposed new clause would meet the views of the Council, as it gave ample assurance that £250,000 would be ear-marked for the dock, though not necessarily the first £250,000 raised. The Attorney-General went on to say that in the previous debate he had stated t-liat it would be interesting to know how many members of the Harbour Board had a direct interest in the Patent Slip Company. It was fair to state that he had been since informed that there are only two members of the Board who have any such interest, and that to such a small extent that it could not make any diirerence in any action the Board took. He further unis derstood that the Board would have been prepared to have repealed the powor given it to purchase the patent slip, but he did not think the Council was called upon to interfere in that matter. The question of dock or no dock was one for the Board and the citizens, and the people of Wellington, as far as he could see, had taken this matter very quietly. So far as the press was concerned, the criticism wais chiefiy of a personal character. The Harbour Board had, he recognised, done very good work, but it had appeared to him that it was not very anxious about the construction of a dock. He now believed that the dock would be constructed at no veay distant date. The Hon J. M. TWOMEY again explained his previous attitude towards the Bill, and claimed that he had been working in the interests of the Harbour Board all along. He further explained that the gentleman to whom be had made-reference on a previous occasion, but whom ho had not named, bad fitted tlie cap to himself, and had written to the press complaining that be had been misrepresented. He bad called in a fellow officer as witness. (Cries of “ Name, name !”) Mr Twomey Eaid they were Mr Kennedy and Mr Kirby. Tbe Hon J. RIGG said if the Hon Air Twomey had not done wrong he would not require to make so many explanations. He (Mir Rigg) thought the Council, having been misled, might admit that a mistake bad been made, and set about getting out of the difficulty. The Hon T. K. MACDONALD defended the action of All* Twomey, declaring that that hon gentleman bad done a public service in connection with this Bill. He denied that tbe Council had been misled, and proceeded to outline the history of the Board’s proceedings in regard to this dock question, adding that be had been told by a member of tbe Board that he hoped the Bill would not pass. Not only did the Board not desire su dock, said My Mao*

donald, but the shipping companies were averse to the proposed dock, fearing that the interest would come out of. their pockets. The Hons G. Jones* S. T. George and J. E. Jenkinson took exception to the way in which the Council had been trifled with by the Hon Air Twomey. The Hon Sir A. J. CADAIAN asked J the Board would accept the amendment proposed. The Hon F. H. FRASER, in reply, said the Board was willing to accept the amendment. The motion for the re-committal of the Bill was then carried. In committee the original clause 2a wras s.ruck out. and the Hon Air Fraaa.Fs new clause inserted, with- the following words as prefix:— .Notwithstanding anything contained in section 4of the Wellington Harbour Board Empowering Act, 1902.” Section 2’d was aho amended as proposed by tlie Hon Mr Fraser and the Bill as amended was reported. DRAMATIC COPYRIGHT BILL.

This Bill was committed, reported without amendment, read a third time, and passed. HUIRANGI DOMAIN.

The Huirangi Domain and Huirangi Institute Empowering Bill (Hon H. Fekhvick) was read a second time. STATE FIRE INSURANCE.

Tlio State Fire Insurance Bill was committed for the consideration of the postponed clauses relating to sinking fund and application of profits. The Hon A. L. Smith had given notice of various amendments, but as it was now pointed out by the AttorneyGeneral that the clauses affected tlie question of appropriation, and any amendment would infringe the privileges of “ another place,” Air Smith wiL-li-drew liis proposals. The postponed clauses were thereupon parsed without alteration, and the Bil'l vas reported with the amendments made at the previous sitting of the committee. The Council adjourned at 4.30 p.m. THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 24. The Cora noil met at 2.30 p.m. STATE FIRE INSURANCE. On the motion for the third reading of the State Fire Insurance Bill, The Hon S. T. GEORGE desired to give expression to his views on sev ei al clauses in the measure. In clause 54 there was provision made for a division of profits among insurers if their names appeared on the list a;t the close of the triennial period, but there was no provision for any bonus co an insurer w -io prior to tlie close or that period ceased for some reason or other to hold a policy. The greatest objection to 1 the bonus clause was -that it would debar the Government from effecting reinsurance; the bonus was exactly the same as cutting the rates. He contended that members had been misled in this matter of bonus. Clause 30 provided that 50 per cent, of the net profits at the end of the triennial period should be placed in the hands of the Public Trustee and be set apart as a sinking fund, and in clause 45 it was provided that one-lialf of the net surplus profits were to be divided among insurers in a certain way —not half of the profits, as the Council had been led to believe. That meant that the bonus would amount to 25 per cent of the profits instead of 50 per' cent. Another objection was that- nothing was set aside under the Bill for reinsurance, whereas tlie companies doing business in New Zealand found it desirable to set aside about 40 per cent, of the net premium income for tlie purpose. A still more important matter for consideration bad arisen in connection with this Bill—it related to the rights and privileges of the Council. Air George was proceeding to refer to the ruling of the Chairman of Committees (Hon J. Rigg) _ in connection with clause 30 the previous day—[the Chairman had ruled that no amendment could be mfideto the clause, as it affected moneys raised by a, charge upon the public]—when The SPEAKER ruled that the decision of the Chairman could not be discussed then. - If an hon. gentleman wished to challenge the decision of the Chairman, it must be done in a constitutional way. The Hon S. T. GEORGE said be would move the recommittal of the Bill for the reconsideration of clauses 30, 32, 45 and 47 (relating to sinking fund and division of profits), in order to get a repetition of the Chairman’s ruling, and then refer it to the Speaker. The Hon J. RIGG said his ruling was upon clause 30 only. He suggested that the hon gentleman should test his ruling by a direct motion. The Hon C. C. BOWEN said a serious question had been raised involving the privileges of the Council, and he hoped members would agree to the recommittal of tbe Bill, so that tlie question could be settled. They ought to bo very careful before they gave away their privileges. Tbe ATTORNEY-GENER AL said lie would do nothing to prevent the privileges of the Council being maintained, b>ut he pointed out that section 35 of the Bill declared that all moneys in the State Fire Insurance Account were public moneys within tbe meaning of the Public Revenues Act, 1891. That danse must be treated as an appropriation of money..

- The motion for recommittal of the Bill was agreed to on the voices: The Hon S. T. GEORGE rose to propose an amendment in clause 30. The CHAIRMAN ruled it inadmissible. He saw no reason, he said, to depart from bis former ruling. The clause affected moneys which were raised by charges on the? people. The Hon. S. T. GEORGE: This does not deal with public expenditure or revenue. The- CHAIRMAN held that, it did. He said there could be no discussion upon bis ruling; that must be done in a proper way—by notice. The Chairman quoted from Peel’s decisions as follows: —“‘lt is not in order to appeal to tbe Speaker from the ruling of the Chairman of Committees. An hon member is not entitled to raise before Mr Speaker any question as to what goes on in committee. Sjic-li question mustbe dealt with in the committee.” The Hon GEORGE IvIcLEAN pointed out that in. “another place” the ocher day, when the question of the ruling of the Chairman of Committee was discussed, they took a similar course to that now proposed. The CHAIRMAN said that if the Chairman of Committees in “another place” did not conduct the business according to Parliamentary practice that was no reason why he should follow a similar course. After further discussion, progress was reported and leave obtained to sit again, and the incident dropped. TECHNICAL BILLS. The Commissioners and Interpret ait ion Act Amendment Bills were committed, amended in accordance with the suggestions of the Statutes Revision Committee, and reported. CITY SINGLE ELECTORATES BILL. This Bill was committed, but progress was immediately reported upon the motion of the Attorney-General, who stated chat he wished to further consider seme amendments of which he had given notice. The Council then adjourned. FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 25. The Council met at 2.30 p.m. FINAL READINGS. The Commissioners Bill and Interpretation Act Amendment Bill were read a third time and passed. CITY SINGLE ELECTORATES. This Bill was committed. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved a Jong series of printed and written amendments and additions to clause 4 dealing, with city licensing districts. The Hon G. McLEAN pointed out that it was impossible for the copimittee to follow or understand the amendments as read. Ho suggested that they might be passed and printed with the Bill, and the whole re-committed after the measure was reprinted.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL agreed to this course. Tlie amendments were inserted and the Bill reported. FORMAL READING.

Tlie Bush and Swamp Crown Lands Settlement Bill waS on the motion of tbe Attorney-General read a second time pro forma and referred to tlie Waste Lands Committee. IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT.

The Imprisonment for Debt Limitation Act Amendment Bill was passed through its committee stage with some unimportant amendments suggested by tlie , Statutes Revision Committee. The Council adjourned • at 3.20 to await the Imprest Supply Bill from the other Chamber.