PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Mail, Issue 957, 4 July 1890, Page 29

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. THURSDAY, JUNE 26, 1890. The Speaker took the ohair at 2.30. Hon R. Wahawaha presented a petition signed by 370 Natives praying that the West Coast Settlements Act be repoiled. Hon Mr VI ilson asked the Government whether it was their intention to propose any amendment in the Gaming and Lotteries Act, 18S1 ? The Attorney. General answered that it was not intended to make any altera* tion. On the motion ofjthe Hon Mr Stevens tho following Bills were introduced and read a first time :—The Education Reserves Lsasing Act Amendment Bill, 1890, and the Indus* trial Schools Act Amendment Bill. The second readings were fixed for next Tuesday. : - The Attorney - General moved the second reading of the Oaths Bill, and in doing so explained that the measure was a short one, and that one of its principle objects was to get rid of all previous provisions relating to oaths and affirmations so as to consolidate them. The Hon Mr Wilson said the Bill was almost a transcript of the Imperial Act of 1888, which was brought in by Mr Brad!*ngh t and bad os-used, ha believed, a conBiderable diversity of opinion in the House of Commons. Mr Wilson said he would not object to the second reading of the Bill, but would endeavour to make considerable amendment in the second clause when it got into committee. The Hon Mr Shephard said from his reading of the Bill it meant going baokward from the position in which they were at present—in fact, It was a retrograde measure. He considered it would be far better to let the law stand as it was. If, it was found necessary to make ally he would rooner see a sepaute measure introduced. He did not think the Council were justified in passing the Bill now before them, and he sincerely hoped it would never get into committee. For himself he would like to see oaths of all sorts abolished ; and moved as an amendment that the Bill be read a second time this day six months. The Hon Sir George Whitmore and Hon Mr Pharazyn, while not liking the measure, would not oppose its second reading, but would endeavour to amend it in committee. The Hon Mr Shrimbki moved the adjournment of the debate, which was lost, on division, by 15 to 7. The Hon Mr Shepherd’s amendment for the Bill being read a second time this day six months was lost, after division, by 16 to 5. The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed next Tuesday. The Attorney-General moved the second reading of the Trustee Bill, which, after discussion, was agreed to, the Bill to be referred to a Select Committee. The Council rose at 3.30 p.m. till next day. FRIDAY, JUNE 27. The Speaker took the chair at 2.30 pm. Ihe Hon Mr Acland was granted leave to ■ introduce, without notioe, the Christchurch Property Trustees (Canterbury) Indemnity On the motion of the Hon Mr Wilson, the [following members were appointed a Select ■Committee to consider the Trustee Bill—[The Hon Sir F. Whitaker, Hon Mr Buck'ley, Hon Mr Richmond, Hon Dr Pollen, Hon [Mr Pharazyn, Hon Sir G. S. Whit more, and the mover. The Imprest Supply Bill was read a second [time, went through committee, was read a [third time nnd passed. The Council rose at 2.45. -'TUESDAY, JULY 1. The Speaker took the chair at 2.30. roman catholic lands act extension bill. I The Hon Dr Grace, in moving the second reading of this Bill, explained that it was intended to remove doubts as to whether the [Archbishop of Wellington has vested in him the lands whioh were previously vested in him as Bishop of Wellington. It was a necessary Bill consequent on an alteration in title. Bill read a second time, Sdhurch property trust indemnity bill. I The Hon Mr Acland, in moving the gßacouu reading, stated that this measure was [intended relieve three gentlemen from an ;tanpleaßsnt;. position which the Court of i&ppeal has reoently held they are in, in jrespeet of liability for property-tax on [debentures raised by the church in Cantsr|)ur7, and which the Synod at its last meeting bad unanimously resolved to release them Horn. 3 Bill read a second time.

A CALL OP THE COUNCIL. It accordance with his notice of motion the Hon Mr Wilson moved, “ That the Council bo called over on Tuesday, the Bth j«y of July.” Hs ss«id thst cn the ds** o** which he had given the notice there were fight members absent, and he considered it lesirable there should be a full attendance. The Hon George McLean thought a little longer notice should be given, six days being hardly sufficient for thoae at a distance. From what he had heard, it was possible that there would be a motion of Want of confidence in another place, and, following their usual oustom, the Council would not then sit, and members —’ '* palled here and kept d»» : ~ -mght be moved that the nothing. He morrow. —'“Ce be adjourned till toi rpt

L -. u e Hon Mr Pharazyn urged, as an adnitional reason for postponement, that the lecond reading of the Legislative Council Bill Would come on to morrow, and it was quite possible that it would be thrown out. It jeemed to him that it might be advisable, therefore, to adjourn this debate till after i kadbeen brought forward. L The Hon Mr Shephard said that no doubt |s was desirable that a Bill of that importlanoe should be considered by as full an “a " " as possible to get, but nsiead of postponing the motion for a call p *ne uonnoii it might be desirable to post-

pone the seoond reading of a Bill dealing with the Constitution. He pointed out that, according to the Standing Orders, five days’ notice only was required fer a call of the Council. The Hon Sir G. Whitmore had learnt that some of the absentees were restrained by family circumstances or ill health, and be would be unwilling to compel them to leave their homes under such conditions. With regard to the Legislative Council Bill, ho had very little doubt that the Council would afford the measure reasonable discussion. He might say that it had been pointed out to him by the Attorney-General that there were some technical objections to it, such as the omission of provision for repeal, ing a former Act, &0., but he had decided to move tomorrow that the Bill be read a second time, and to ask that in Committee he might be allowed to introduce certain alterations to make it more workable. He was prepared to do this to meet the teohnioal objections, and he would be prepared also to meet the views of members of the Council, bo that the Bill, if passed, might be the unanimous reflection of its members. A great many gentlemen had thought it necessary to have a call of tho Council, and considering the facilities offered by the telegraph, and the fact that members were well aware that Parliament had been called together, he did not consider six days’ notioe short at all. Reverting to the Legis Intivs Couse:! Bill, hs K® oh, liged to move very considerable alterations in it in language, but these would not affect its principles, and in order to give hon gentlemen an opportunity of considering these alterations, he would be prepared to agree to a delay of one or two days before having it- committed. On the voices the debate was adjourned till Wednesday. oaths bill. Sir Frederick Whitaker asked that the debate be adjourned till next day, the Hon Mr Wilson having given him an amendment,

which, not being in proper form, he would like to have altered. Debate adjourned. Arbitration bill.

The second reading was moved by Sir F. Whitaker, who explained that the Bill was mainly a consolidating measure, introducing also necessary amendments. Bill read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Thursday.

MERCANTILE AGENTS BILL. Sir F. Whitaker moved the second reading, and put forward much the same arguments, showing that in this case, as with the previous Bill, the law of New Zealand was derived from that of England, and was not to be found on our own Statute Book. The Hon Mr Wilson did not think this was simply a Consolidation Act, for there Were in it new enactments. He pointed out that mercantile agents, trusted with goods for sale, have also the power to raise money on them, whioh he contended should not have, and he also o*-' 5 . , as an extension of th- -ejected to it which he did n- 4 - ” . credit system, to furtbe- * " -° e think it necessary to give a - impetus. Dishonest agents would Dy means of this Bill be enabled to obtain more money, land he would point out that credit had been grossly abused in this colony, for though we had not had a Glasgow Bank failure we had had something near _ it; and though we lacked financiers who worked gigantic swindles, he had read that at Gisborne the other day an enterprising tradesman failed with £3OOO worth of book debts which were sold for 30s.

Sir G. Whitmore thought it best to take time in considering this Bill, and he moved that the further consideration of the Bill be postponed till Friday. The Hon. G. McLean remarked, respecting Mr Wilson’s statements, that the whole consigning business depends on the credit of the man to whom (he gootU

sent, and no law would alter the honesty of the man. But if the Bill were not passed his hon friend would very likely compel people, in place of raising money on them, to sacrifice thoir goods, and so he would do them an injury. What objections had been raised were mere committee objections. Sir F. Whitaker, in reply, pointed out that it was a hardship to many people not to be able to find the law on the subject in our own statute book, in place of having to go to the English law books. The Conncil divided on the amendment— Aye-, 11 ; noes, 13. Bill read a secoud time and ordered to be committed on Friday. The Hon Mr Shrimski called attention to the fact that the other Chamber had adjourned “ for some reason,” and he moved that, ia accordance with their naual oustom, the Council also adjourn. ’ Motion agreed to. The Council rose at 2.55. HOUSE OF EEPEESENTATIVES. THURSDAY. JUNE 26. Tho Speaker took the ohair at 2.30. LOCAL BILLS. The Joint Committee on Bills reported that the Gimmerburn Forest Reservo and Auckland Roman Catholic Reserves Bills were local Bills, and they were accordingly struck on the paper, the Government intimating that they would take up the Bills as local bills. railway privileges. The ÜBual notification was received from the Manawatu Railway Company that members might travel free over its line during the session, and the Speaker intimated his intention of replying, thanking tho Coinpany. answers to questions. The Colonial Secretary said, in answer to Mr Wilson, that as soon as definite data was laid before the Government they would

consider what bonus should be given for improved flaxmilling machinery. The Minister of Lands Informed Mr BeethuLu thus the advisabieneas of classifying produce was a difficult question, but he would be willing to refer it to the Stook Committee, and meantime could not appoint any inspectors. The difficulty was Hot- to rtnrw-l KuGam 4-a H. “ O " & v ' , “ VUM,,V » aUUV HU ICIUU AW in good condition in England. Mr Hutchison asked the Native Minister when he proposes to give the House an opportunity of deoiding whether the public funds shall be used to enable those dissatisfied with the decision in the case of Poaka and others v. Ward and others to carry tho appeal from the Court of Appeal to the Privy Council; whether there is any a'rraneement by which the Ministry now control those who have the co* auc |. 0 j appeal, bo aa to release jU deposited; whether he has a Ty material guarantee that the sum of £2O mentioned by him as the forfeit for withdrawing (assuming the Ministry have that power) will cover the oosts incurred by both sides; and out of what vote the sum, great or small, which must be paid will be provided ?

The Minister for Education replied that the House would be given au opportunity shortly of discussing the action of the Government in the matter, and the question wonld be referred tc, a committee, He added that the Government had an arrange, ment by which they could get a refund of £3OO.

The Minister of Justice, In answer to Mr Fitzherbert, said weekly sittings of the Resident Magistrate’s Court would be held in Palmerston North, and in all probability increasing settlement would justify the appointment of a magistrate for the borough. The Minister of Defence informed Mr Joyce that he could not propose to give votes to members of the Permanent Artillery,

The Minister of Lands said, in answer to Mr Beetham, that no land hod been set apart under section 8 of the Hospitals and Charitable Institutions Act and the provisions of the clause had expired. The Minister of Lands, in reply to Sir George Grey, said the Government could not postpone the date of the hearing of the Awarua block at Marten.

The Minister of Mines informed Mr heddon that a Mining Bill would be introduced this session.

new bills. The following new Bills were introduced and read a first time Mr Seddon—The Mining Act 1886 Amendment Bill, and the Gold Duties Abolition Bill • Mr Ormond— The Napier Harbour Board Further Em. powering Bill; Hon Mr Ballance—A Bill to amend the Municipal Corporations Act; Mr Turnbull—The Timaru Charitable Aid Institution Vesting Bill; Hon Mr Hislop— Tho Wellington School of Design and Exchange Bill.

the awarua block. A discussion on this matter was raised by Sir George Grey, and lasted till 5.30.

EVENING SITTING.

D 0Q _ REGISTRATION ACT AMENDMENT BILL. Major Steward moved the second reading oUkhis Bill when the Housu resumed at 7. 00, explaining that the Bill was a reprint of that passed by the Legislative Council last year, and provided that a shepherd or drover might have dogs (not exceeding three) registered for 23 6d each.’ Mr Taipua moved that the debate be adjourned until Wednesday next, on the ground that the Native members wished to move certain amendments.

Mi Taylor objected to “what I call this continued tinkering with the legislation of the country.” This was class legislation in favour of tho shepherd kings—" an insidious attempt to bribe the electors of this country.” (Laughter.) The election was coming on, and there were a number of

shepherds living in the rural spot represented by Major Steward. Mr Taiwhanga also opposed the Bill, as unjust to the Maoris.

Mr Fulton deprecated any interference with the revenue of the local bodies, and suggested that the Bill be withdrawn.

Mr J. McKenzie said County Councils had power to fix the registration fee, but not to chargo a different fee on different classes of dogs. The revenue from these fees was not large, and consequently there need net be any fear on that score. Mr Bruce said the dog tax was intended rather to discourage the accumulation of dogs than to yield revenue. He supported the Bill.

A discussion ensued, ia thq • nt whioh Mr Fakata intimated t> t £ i h a the second wad.- g waß agreed to, an amend, vn? v - j,r Carroll, to the effect that the "d* oe read a seoond time that day six months, being lost by 33 to 26. LAW PRACTITIONERS BILL. Sir George Grey, in moving the second reading of this Bill, said mauy of the hindrances in the way of attaining to the legal profession had been removed, but there still existed one, which was the general knowledge examination. He addressed himself principally to condemnation of this condition, contending that the general knowledge examination in its present form was nfttnecessary; and he pointed to America as affording instances of the greatness to whioh men had risen through a ” more liberal condition. lie asked the House to say: What we want is a thorough knowledge of law. Acquire that, and a knowledge of tho language, and then you are free to practice, That was what the Bill provided, and he moved tho second reading of it, hoping that it would be agreed to, and that at last justice would be done.

Mr Samuel thanked the mover for ab» staining from making any unpleasant references to members of the legal profession. He ridiculed the idea that men had only to get into that profession to earn a large income, and said many hard-working and struggling young men worked at it for less than a clerk’s salary. He maintained the necessity for a general knowledge teat, holding that the examination itself had a valuable effect on the student. Then he objected that the Bill would increase the number of lawyers and promote litigation, especially ia respect of solicitors, whose tests should, he thought, be more atriefc than those of barristers. He twitted Sir George Grey with having already abolished safeguards! and done away with apprenticeship, while all round him he saw anions and other bodies insisting on it in all businesses and trades.

Mr Taiwhanga warmly supported th® Bill, and hoped the House would pass it. Mr Downie Stewart asked where a similar Bill to this was in force in the United States?

Sir George Grey said it had been in force for some time, aB Mr Stewart wonld find if he read the life of General Sherman. Mr Stewart said Sir George Grey waa under a misapprehension, and was referring to a period anterior to the present. This Bill, he contended, would create a great deal of mischief in and out of tho Courts. No doubt the hon member was acting in all good faith, but nevertheless the Bill would have disastrous effects. As to the United States, the conditions there were very much more rigid than in this Colony, and to pass this Bill would be to cast a slur on the legal profession of the Colony in their relations with other parts of the worid. There was this view of it also, that whereas the Colony was spending a large amount of money in education, this Bill would entirely overlook all educational quantisations. Mr W. C. Smith supported the BilL stating that before he came to Wellington he was asked by a prominent member of the legal profession to do so. Dr Fitchett opposed it, holding that ifc would overrun the profession, which was already so crowded that many lawyers had to hire themselves out as olerkc. Mr Taylor, speaking in the discussion winch ensued, expressed regret that he had left his authorities at home. (Laughter.) He denounoed the law as “ a scheme for the deluding of the unwary,” and twitted its exponents with inability to agree and with charging enormous fees. This Bill would improve the status of the profession. Mr Fitzherbert : How ? - . Mi L Tay J ,or :B y getting intelligent men into It. (Laughter.) Mr Saunders supported the Bill on freetrade principles, and ridiculed the idea thab a smattering of Latin made a man honest. Mr Rhodes moved the adjournment of fche debate.

Sir George Grey said nothing could ba more convincing as showing what iawyers were than the ounning trick by which they had tried to avoid fair debate (he being compelled to speak to the adjournment and nob to the mam question). Mr Samuel resented Sir George Grey’s tone, and said it was not to be expected that the hon gentleman would finish a debate without using oLjectionable language. •* ne iqotion for adjournment of the debate was put after a short discussion, and lost on the voices^

Sir George Grey, in reply, reviewed the arguments which had been adduced against the Bill, and called upon the Houso to do justice to its fellow colonists by granting them the privileges to which they were en. titled. (Cheers.) second reading was carried by Si to 22, Following is the division list: Ayes: 34.— Messrs Ballance, Barron, Bruce Buxton, Cowan, Duncan, Felawick. ’ Fisher Fish, Fraser, Goldie, Grey, Grimmond’ Harkness, Hutchison, Joyce, Lawry, Mackenzie, Marchant, McGregor, Mitchelson, Moss, R. H. J. Reeves, W P Reeves, Saunders, Seddon, Smith, W* J* Steward, Taipua, Taiwhanga, Taylor! R. Thompson, TV Thompson, Verrall. * Noes; 22. Messrs Allen, Arthur, Beetham, Blake, Buohanan, Fitehett, Fitz. herberfc, Hall* Hamlin, Hodgkinaon, Humphreys* Kelly, Lance, Macarfchur, Moat* Ormond, Peacock, G. F. Richardson, Rhodes, Samuel, W. D. Stewart, Valentine. Pairs. —For : Messrs Cadman, Fisher, and Loughrey. Against: Messrs Guinness, Menteath, and Hamlin.

Th® BUI was set down for committal on -.uursday, the IGt’n of July, and Sir George Grey then wished to move that it be tß a first order of the day. Mr Samuel and others objected, and it then appealed that George h, id made a mistake, and wished the Hill to ho oof. nn fkrt A«J_. —, s* ° £ u° ther BiUp - of his own. The ®P®? ker J raled thafc the date> l k? 6 ? filled as the 10th, could not now theP'" * co tli e3rd. Mr Samuelobjeoted to ' ; Will being set down as the first Vder on the 10th, on the ground that the Divorce Bill was coming on on that day. Mr Samuel eventually withdrew an objection to the date being changed, bat Mr Fitzherbert objected. Sir John Hall, while he regretted that Sir George Grey had not been conceded the rectification of his mistake, expressed a hope that the House would not ride roughshod over its standing orders. Other members protested that the standing orders were not being infringed. The motion that the committal of the Bill be the first! order on the 10th of July was carried by 3CJ to 27. The House rose at 11,15.

FRIDAY, JUNE 27. The Speaker took the chair at 2.30. ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS® The Minister of Lands promised Mr Ballance to make inquiries as to bringing holders of small grazing runs under the Selectors Lands Revaluation Aot. The Native Minister, in answer Mr. Parata, said the Ngatikui and Ranvitann Natives, living at Havelock and Wairau, would be placed in possession of their land as soon as posaibie. In answer to Mr Bruoe, the Minister said as far as he could ascertain no wai done to the Native owserq

in connection with the purchase of the "Waimariuo block.

The Minister of Education, in answer to Mr Goldie, said the Government had no power to deal with lunatics discharged from the Avoudale Lunatic Asylum. Proposals would be submitted which would make such persons a charge on the Colony, but meantime the local bodies would have to take the responsibility. Mr Joyce asked the Premier, Will he inform the House of the date and circumstances which led his Government to make the advance of £4992 19s 3d to the Hew Plymouth Harbour Board, as shown in the Unauthorised Expenditure Account for the financial year ending March last; what security was taken for repayment of such advance ; the rate to be charged ; and when will the loan be repayed? The Postmaster-General said that the advance was considered advisable, as the interest became due in October, when the conversion loan was being arranged. The Publio Accounts Committee considered this matter last session, and agreed with the Premier that it wa3 advisable to pay the money. £3399 remained unpaid, but there ’ ■was a question whether the money stopped from rates had been legally so done, and whethor the balance of £3339 could be stopped. The Minister for Public Works, in answer to Mr Barron, said the Government had been taking, and would take, all possible steps to abolish the Public Works Department, but while they had got to expend money in public works— there being over a million to spend—it was necessary to have someone to attend to the expenditure. They had now only 57 officers, as against 155 formerly, and when it was decided that no futther moneys should be borrowed for public works, it would be quite possible to wipe out the Department. The Minister for Public Works, in answer to Mr Buchanan, said that at'present the Government could not make any proposal to defray the cost of stocking the streams cf the North Island with trout. NEW BILLS. The following new Bills were introduced and read a first time:—Mr t-'amuel—The Quinquennial Parliaments Bill (which provides that Parliaments after the present one shall be of a duration of five years), and the Deceased Husband’s Brother’s Marriage Bill; Mr Seddou—The Auctioneers Bill. REGISTRATION OF ELECTORS BILL. The debate on the sefcond reading of this Bill was resumed by Mr Fulton, who sup. ported the measure, as did Mr Peacock, both gentlemen laying special stress on the good effect the Bill would have on the rolls, fir T. Mackenzie also supported the Bill, aud expressed approval of th 6 proposal to give a representative to seamen. Mr Fisher said the Bill might better be called a Bill to prevent the registration of electors, and that ic would prevent some 2000 people in Wellington from being placed on the roll. It was a most conservative measure, and would disfranchise many working men. Mr W. P. Reeves made a vigorous little speech against the Bill, holding than such a drastic remedy as this was not wanted. Mr Izard contended that the rolls could be put perfectly right without this Bill. He also objected to special representation for seamen.

The debate was adjourned to 7.30, in order that the Premier might make a statement, after which the dinner adjournment was taken.

EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30. REGISTRATION OF ELECTORS BILL,

Mr O’Conor, resuming the debate on the second reading of this Bill, objected to the provision that persons receiving charitable aid should not have electoral privileges. He disapproved the Bill generally, and intimated that he would oppose it generally. The Native Minister, in answer to Mr Fish, intimated that the Government would, in committee, propose 'a clause providing that the Bill should not apply to the next general election. Mr Fish strongly opposed the Bill, and suggested that it should be withdrawn. With respect to seamen, he said what they really wanted was that each seaman should have the right of voting fora member for the port to which he belonged, at any pert in the Colony, for a period of a fortnight or three weeks before the election.

Mr Taylor opposed the Bill principally on the ground that the Government would bo “functus officio” (cheers) in a fortnight—in other words, they would be politieally dead.

Mr Bruce, in a speech in favour of the Bill, principally addressed himself to the seamen’s representation clauses, and thanked the Government for proposing them. He maintained that the seamen would be strong Freetraders.

Mr ifioss objected to the Bill, and Mr Saunders supported it. Dr Newman objected to the Government bringing in so many measures, as if their lives depended ou the introduction of these wretched Bills. This Bill could never nave been considered clause by clause, and he hoped it would be withdrawn. Mr J. McKenzie did not see any necessity for going on with the Bill If it was not to come into force for three years. Mr Blake thought there was altogether too much representation, and that quite enough alterations had been made for one Parliament.

In the discussion which ensued, Messrs Buchanan, R. Reeves, and Duncan opposed the Bill, and Mr Allen aud Mr Beetham supported it. Mr Fitzherbert moved the adjournment of the debate at 9,15, and lost his motion by 37 to 2G. Mr Bryce expreseed an opinion that the necessity for passing the Bill this session had gone if the measure was not to apply at the next election. (Hear, hoar.) The Colonial Secretary thought Mr Bryce was less logical than usual. He reminded members of the frequency of complaints about roll.stuffing at the last general election, and he ridiculed the idea that thi3 was a conservative measure. Was it ccr.--Gorvative to purge tho rolls ? If men would not take the trouble to get their names on tho rolls they did not deserve a vote. He exp e.-aed an opinion that tho Bill would be

passed by a large majority, for there had been no objection to the principle. Mr replying after some further discussiou, said many members underrated the intelligence of the oouutry entirely ; the Bill had been nuderstood by the people of Victoria for the last 25 years. Ho traversed the arguments that had been adduced against the Bill, and said he was not vary strong on the question of excluding charitable aid recipients from electoral rights. Ho declared that exaotly such a Bill as this was prepared by the previous Government, who claimed so much Liberalism. Special representation, he contended, was recognised in the Constitution. He intimated lrs willingness to agree to any reasonable amendments in committee.

On division, the second reading of the Bill was passed by 35 to 23. Following is the division list :

Ayes, 35 Messrs. Alien,. Anderson, Beetham, Bruce, Bryce, Carroll, Cowan, Dodson, Fergus, Goldie, Rarkness, Hislop, Hobbs, Hodgkinson, Izard, Lawry, Macarthur, M. J. S. Maokenzie, McGregor, Mitckelson, Monk, Ormond, Peacock, Rhodes, G. F. Richardson, Russell, Saunders, Seymour, Stuart-Menteath, Taiwhanga, Tanner, R. Thompson, T. Thompson, Valentine, and Wilson. Noes, 23. Messrs Ballance, Blake, Buxtoa, Duccan, Feld wick, Fisher, Fisb, Fitzborbert, Fraser, Grimmoud, Joyce, Kelly, Kerr, Larnach, J. McKenzie, Newman, Perceval, R. H. J. Reeves, VV. P. Reeves, Smith, \Y. J. Steward, Taylor, Verral). Pairs.— For : Pyke, Fulton, Moat, Hall, Withy, Ross, Humphreys, T. Mackenzie, W. D. Stewart, Arthur, Barron, Atkinson. Against : G’Oonor, Moss, Cadman, Fitchett, E. Richardson, Loughrey, Walker, Hutchison, Grimmond, Lance, Grey, Turnbull. The committal of tho Biil was fixed for Tuesday, aud the House rose at 10.15 pm. ATTACK ON THE GOVERNMENT POLICY.

MR BALLANCE’S AMENDMENT,

TUESDAY, JULY 1.

Before the House met on Tuesday afternoon it was pretty well known that a direct attack was to bo made on the financial policy of the Government by Mr Bdlance, the leader of the Opposition, a decision to that effect having been arrived at by the party during tho morning. When the House had met and the usual preliminary business had been transacted, Mr Ballance, who was warmly cheered by his party, gave notice of the following amendment on the motion for going into Committee of Supply : That, in the opinion of this House, the continuance of the primage duty is unnecessary, and is a distinct breach of the understanding arrived at when it was first imposed. That further retrenchment is imperatively demanded, and can be effected without impairing the efficiency of the public service. That the retention of the property-tax in its present form, and the land policy pursued by the Government, alike impede the progress of the Colony. Ministers did not make any sign until, when t'>e business on the Order Paper was reached, the Native Minister (Mr Mitchelson) rose and said that after the motion of which Mr Ballance had given notice, which was a direct challenge to che Government, aud would be treated as such, Ministers would not answer questions, but would proceed at once to the order for Committee of Supply. Objection to this course was at once taken by Mr Feldwick and others, who reminded the Minister that the Premier had promised that the financial debate should be begun at 7-30. Mr Mitchelson said he would adjourn till 7.30 if Mr Ballance wished it, and the latter gentleman said he was entirely in the hands of the House. Eventually it was agreed to adjourn the debate till 7.30, so that Mr Ballance’B amendment might be printed End circulated, and the House adjourned at 2.55. THE DEBATE. When the House resumed at 7.30 all the galleries were packed, and the House was also well filled. The order for Committee of Supply was called on at oucc. Mr Ballance, whe rose amidst cheers to move his amendment, began by saying that if it should be carried no one need have tho slightest apprehension that the present Government would allow the Opposition to take their places —they would appeal to the cou- iry and fight it out. In that he thought their inclination coincided with their duty, because it was unquestionable that in the last session of a Parliament the country should have a voice in any new policy. The Ministry were in an unfortunate position of their own choosing, having come to a decision which gave them a nominal Premier and a nominal leader. They could all havo desired to see the Premier in his place that night (hear, hear) when his Statement was being discussed ; and he was of opinion that the strain really cast on the bon gentleman by his absence under such ciroumstances was greater than it would havo been if lie had to be in the House. Ho did not blame the Premier, nor did he lose sight of his loyalty, but the resnlt was that there was a pood deal of confusion. He blamed the other members of the Government for forcing him into that position. Dealing with the statement, he said some of the information vva3 said to be valuable for people at Rome ; but who read the Financial Statement at Home ? Probably no one out. side the - gent General’s office. (“Oh”). VV hat they slid onticise and scrutinise at Home was any surplus, and that was why the Treasurer had been careful to make the most, of ihe surplus. The Treasurer was much astonished at the false impressions existing in other parts of the world about the Colony ; but what had be done to remove it, beyond quoting a mass of figure-? VViiat was done in the AgentGeneral’s office ? What had been done to attract pimple to our shores ? Yet false im prt ssions were! complained of ! Our enemies weie active, hut nothing had been done against them. They were told that the

Customs revenue had fallen off £49,000, and that iu consequence the people were becoming more temperate, but the fact was that People were leaving thß Colony. A surplus of £115,000 was claimed by the Government, and they said the Colony should congratulate itself upon it. He contended that the natural condition of the finance was to show a surplus, though there might be a deficiency sometimes. As a matter oi fact this waß not a surplus. The primage duty had not been aocounted for, and liabilities had not been met. The Treasurer said there was £36,500 with which to begin the year. What did that mean? That that £36,500, aud not £115,000, was the real surplus. As to the primage duty, was it not clearly promised that it should be imposed for two years only to meet the deficiency ? Did anyone believe it would be continued longer? That was the clear and unmistakable understanding. This tax, that reached everything and made no exemptions, was it a wise and politic tax? Certainly not. Then they were told that it was to pro. vide for sohool buildings, when in 1888 they were assured that those buildings were to be charged against the consolidated fnnd. Now, as to the surplus of £36,500 —did it exist ? There was a deficit of £45,000 for two years in the land fund—was that put against the £36,000, or any provision made for it? No ; the Treasurer said he did not propose to meet it this year—the £45,000 had been taken up iu deficiency bills, and was in the same position as the surplus for which the primage duty was imposed. The only way to deal with it was by Treasury bills and flying kites, otherwise the Treasurer must have confessed that instead of a surplus he had a deficit. (Hear, hear.) He quoted some remarks made by Sir Harry Atkinson in 1887, laying it down that the land fund “is, in law, apart of the consolidated fund,” and that “any deficiency in the land fund is a deficiency in the consolidated fund, and should be so provided for.” (Hear, hear.) Therefore £45,000 must he taken from £36,500, and there was a deficiency ! Then for four years the sinking fund under the Govern. mßnt Loans to Local Bodies Act had not been provided, as ordered by law, and it amounted to £4500. That also had to come off the surplus. The other day the. leader of the House told them that the Government was authorised by the Public Accounts Committee to pay £4992 as interest for the New Plymouth Harbour Board. He believed that the Public Accounts Committee never gave authority for that being done without the request of the Harbour Board, which was not made. This was another item, making altogether a net deficiency of £15,639 instead of a surplus. How was the land fund treated ? In this ideal finance presented year by year the proceeds of the perpetual lease funds were all taken into the consolidated fund, thus impoverishing the land fund to the extent last year of £15,000. The land revenue last year wa3 £124,000, and the territorial revenue £202,000, including the perpetual lease. (Mr Scobie Mackenzie : It was the same in your own time.) Mr Ballance said he was not condemning it; he was simply showing that where a surplus was claimed there was a deficiency. A deficit of £48,000 was yielded on the Minister of Lands’ estimate for the year, and the Minister must have known there must be a deficit while he was throwing the bulk of the perpetual lease revenue on the consolidated fund. For this year the receipts were estimated at £96,000 and the expenditure at £116.000, leaving a deficit of £19,000, simply on account of this false surplus. Thus on the whole we were borrowing to make up a deficiency. and no other effort was made to provide for this deficiency. New as to borrowing, the Government said they were not prepared to recommend ’.‘ordinary borrowing,” but they were prepared with an “extraordinary borrowing” polioy. The Treasurer proposed to borrow in the Colony at 4 per cant. He said : “I think that we shall find no difficulty in disposing of locally such an amount as may be required from time to time at 4 per cent, at par, if Parliament will, as we propose, allow an issue not subject to tho property-tax. And if we can issue it at that price it will really be as profitable a transaction for the Colony as an ordinary short-dated loan raised in London.” Generally the Statement showed that Mr Fergus was not unauthorised when he spoke at Queenstowo, but did represent the mind of his colleagues, not with the art of a master, perhaps, but in plain - spoken language. Connecting the General Government with the local bodies, having been found to bo unpopular, wa3 dropped. He (Mr Ballance) strongly disapproved the “ tortuous plan” of making roads on the security of rates, on the ground that the rates were likely to be burdensome, and perhaps would be repudiated. Ha considered the proposal to borrow on the strength of purchase of Native lands unwise, for it would put two charges against the land—payment of interest and the cost of opening the land up. The present Government had, he contended, failed in the work of acquiring Native lands, as compared with the previous Government, and the tables showed that the large area they said was under negotiation could not be more than 290,000 acres. The Government promised free trade in native lands, but what had it resulted iu ?—not in oolonisation of any kind. He was now assured that they were thinking of resuming the pre-emptive right which they destroyed in 1887. As to the administration of the Government, there had been great extravagance and illegality in it. Mr Edwards was appointed a Native Commissioner at £ISOO a year to do what a Native Land Court Judge did for £SOO. There was plenty of work for him to do on the Fast Coast, but he sat there once or twice and then wont to act as a Supreme Court Judge. That appointment, he contended, was illegal; there was no authority for an appointment to the Supreme Court Bench until the salary had been^fixed in the proper way. There was a question whether the acts of Mr Edwards would be legs!, anu in any case a Bill had been introduced by the Government which they were told was to validate the appointment. He understood, also, that by the Act of Settlement a Judge could not be appointed without hia salary being fixed. a he nouse had not been treated honorably in this matter. Mr Edwards was wade a

Commissioner simply as an excuse. He hoped the legal members of the House would enlighten it about this. Then they had been told that the Native and Publio Work 8 Departments were to be abolished, but additional appointments were actually being made. Everything was done in the most extravagant manner. Larger provision was to be made for defence. Half a million had been spent in this way, and yet we were to go further. He said no, we were amniy defended so longas we were allied to Great Britain. As to school buildings, how was the Minister to take an active part in the administration of the money ? He thought the money would be more economically spent if, say one-sixth was provided from the particular districts. He strongly disapproved the proposal to send delegates to the Federal Convention, on the ground that we had already decided not to adopt federation. Noxt, as to the propertytax : Last year we were told that there should be exemptions of machinery in order that industries might not be hampered. This year nothing of that kind was proposed. The Government did not see their way to make any alteration. He contended that the Government ought to have progressed in the direotion of a change in the incidence of taxation. A land-tax was ideally the best, in his opinion, and he thought we should proceed cautiously in the direction of a landtax with exemption of improvements. A property-tax with such exemptions would be a step in that direction. (Hear, hear). He agreed very largely with Mr Fergus that the big estates and those of the absentees must be dealt with—either bought or burst up, as the honorable gentleman put it. He censured the Government for not indicating their policy with reference to property tax, and ridiculed the idea that it should be left over for a new Parliament. (Hear, hear.) As to land settlement, he complained that the figures had not been put fairly before the country. The Minister’s policy waß that the larger the area of land alienated year by year the better. Was that right? No; the great question must be, how many settlers? The number of settlers was gradually decreasing, though the Government had the boldness to say that their work compared favourably with that of tho previous Government. In ISB7, when the price of land was high, 2424 selectors were placed on the land on settlement conditions, as against 1312 last year! The Minister, however, by Including all the people who took up under an acre of land (109 last year, as against 87 in 1887), got a small average acreage. Then the honorable gentleman sold “ small farm blocks ” of an acre, an acre and a quarter, and similar areas; and again 39 persons had taken up over 1000 acres each under perpetual lease, while the last Government would not allow one selector to take up more thaD 640 acres under that system. The last Government had not given choice of tenure as the present Government had, but yet they showed better results. He twitted the Government with the proposal in the Financial Statement to resume the speoial settlement system, and pointed to the good results achieved under It. What townships had the hon gentleman assisted to form under his policy ? For the progress of the towns, to a large extent, kept pace with that of the country. (Hear, near.) As to the much-abused village settlements, last year they yielded £2154, £21,354 having been tha total advances to them, and the receipts from them was 5J per cent of the whole cost. That, hecontended, was aconclusive and final proof of the prosperity of the settlements, Why had not the reports of the Village Stewards beeu laid on the table? About £22,000 had been spent on reads for these settlements out of a total in five years of £262,000, and he contended that that was not an unfair proportion. They had this confession—that they were now facing the great problem how to settle peopleon the land. They were told that, alter two andl|a half years’ experience, and while people had been and were leaving the Colony day after day. Thus, said Mr , Ballance, he had shown that the surplus was financially indefensible; that the Government had no ideas of land settlement; that they were promoting dummyism instead of stopping it; that they were increasing expenditure instead of reducing it; that they were making unnecessary appointments, such as that of an assistant auditor-general, when the one officer could hive done all the work, aud that of Mr Edwards, who was not shown to be suitable ae a Judge of the Supreme Court. Why was that appointment made—was it favouritism, or what ? They were told that there was to be extra, ordinary borrowing, and the Government confessed that they could not touch this year the tax that last year they admitted required amendment. No policy was offered to attract people to this couutry, and the Treasurer himself confessed pain at the ignorance of our Colony in Australia and Great Britain—our great recruiting grounds. For that he blamed the Government, and he asked why they had not removed that impression. Did the Government hold office constitutionally or in such a way as to inspire confidence ? (“No.”) The remedy was a dissolution. (Cheers.) The Govern, ment would then have to formulate a polioy, aud we should have a Parliament properly constituted and not a moribund one. Twenty-one members sat theie who naa no fight to uo so; aud he repeated that there was but one remedy, aud that a dissolution. Mr Ballance concluded amidst cheers a speech occupying an hour and a half in delivery by reading his amendment.

The Minister of Lands, who was warmly received, said the amendment was rather of a disingenuous charaoter. The first part of it was simply an anticipation of a Bill that was coming before the House. The hen gentleman did not put his finger on the pomt3 where substantial retrenchment could be effected. The Government of which Mr Ballance was a member thought it impos3ave £300,000, bat suggested ~i.v U ,ooo as the outside limit, whereas the present Government had saved nearly £300,000. What the hon gentleman forgot Mie property-tax was that it 6-*Suipucn encumbrances, and in that way approximated to a land tax such as was suggested. His speech was to this briefly ; That there wm no

surplus, that there should be retrench ment of a general kind, and that M condemned the Crown land administration Replying to Mr Ballanoe’s arguments with respect to the surplus, Mr Richardson the primage duty for last year was £55 noY but yet £78,000 of an old debt had W wiped off. £109,000 was the total amount Mr Baiiauc-e said should be deducted the surplus, so that in any case there "won't? be a surplus of £6OOO, allowing the hli gentleman his own figures. The purposely which the primage duty was imposed nii been fulfilled, and the Government no* asked the House to reimpose the dJI for another purpose. That was 2 breach n£ agreement but a f re fj proposal. (Hear, hear.) He defended the roading proposal of the Government and said he thought it would meet fti approval of the House. With respect to acquisition of Native lands, he said freetrade was not a success because it was hardh possible for a private individual to obtain Native land on as favourable conditions u the Government could. With reference h retrenchment, there were fe iv if any item on the Estimates that could be touohed First in the permanent appropriations there were the subsidies to local bodies; did the hon gentleman propose to touch that' Going through the departmental votes Me Richardson asked whether the Opposition proposed that there should be a reduction io the educational capitation allowance, seeks that there was a proposed increase of £6OOO in the vote. These and working railway* were the only matters in which a substantia! redaction could be made—the primage duty capitation, subsidies to local bodies, aud working railways ; and he doubted whether railway employes’ wages were to be reduced on the eve of a general election. The in. crease in the defence vote was for ammuni. tion to enable the Government to take advantage of previous expenditure in thii direction. He claimed credit for the unusqj clearness of the Crown Lands Repo; ,0| for the fact that the Government had.-, it eij pounded the cash policy specially in any wiy I Touching settlement, he said the qaestioJ was as to settlers, not selectors. (He«i hear). Last year Mr Ballance said the trail test was the increase in agricultural holdeni not in the number of holders, and the nmj her of agricultural holdings taken up I*,|| year was 2430, whereas the average for th! last 10 years was 1260, and the largest prel vious year prior to last year 1950 ! (Cheer!,|! As to the Village Stewards’ reports, thejl could be laid on the table if necessary. YberS heard a great deal of the ‘‘Who killed Cocll Robin ?" argument as to who killed the pel petual lease system. The right of pnrohisl was inserted in a Bill by another pT«£f (Mr Kerr: Who by?) Mr Rlchardeoil By a member of the late Government!

ber oi agricultural holdings taken up In year was 2430, whereas the average for th last 10 years was 1260, and the largest pre vious year prior to last year 1950 ! (Cheers. As to the Village Stewards’ report*, the' could be laid on the table if necessary. The! heard a great deal of the ‘‘Who killed Cool Robin ?" argument as to who killed the per petual lease system. The right of pnrohw was inserted in a Bill by another phot (Mr Kerr: Who by?) Mr Richardson; By a member of the late Government (Laughter.) He went on to say that Hi Ballance had not attempted to abolish tit purchasing clause, and there had been i killing of the perpetual lease system. Oh of all the land sold under the system, th ! fee simple of only a little over 1000 had been acquired. He wanted to shod that there wa3 no reason for people to leiri tho Colony for want of land, and that theij was more land open for sale now, and r better demand for it, than in any year dti« iug the late Government’s term of office. Duj ing the last two years and a half 327,000aci« more were disposed of than in the previaj three years, at a saving in cost of £l4l,Ora At the present time there was land in til market for small men as well as large meaj Dammyism did not exist to nearly the eJ tent that might be imagined from what hi been said. Hon members who believed thl it did exist &hon!d ask for inquiry into if In conclusion Mr Riohardson challenged Ballance to show how retrenchment, be effected, or how the land adminUtratiof could be improved. (Cheers.) Mr W. P. Reeves wished to knowko| many heads there were to the Ministry—w»S It a three-headed Cerberus they saw beforff them, or had it not got a head at ali? (Langhl ter.) Mr Mitchelsun, as they knew, wasM® an orator, but at least he oould have reph-y : , as effectively as the Minister of Lands til done, and in any case it was hardly complimentary for the leader of the House noti reply to the leader of the Opposition, ffl to the choico of tenure being given to soli tors, Mr Reeves suggested that the Gov* ment would have preferred a cash policy!' but that it was the selectors who prefewlother systems. At the eleotious three ysr|? -S° -he present Opposition were prepay for moderate retrenchment, but the Gov®!?: ment “went one better,” and promlsfe drastic retrenchment, after whi<?Y they been content with moderate res“!\;bn*B| He doubted the value of the about agricultural holdings, knowing man would very frequently have ever so tmfe: holdings. As to “ Who killed Cook Boh?l the oharge against the Government they had ino:eased the facilities for settkgJin perpetual lease to acquire freehold. I|§ Government’s argumeut had always M-;” that the system would never be a until the people could acquire a freehold,fe now the Minister told them that of *l® thousands of acres that had been taken under the system, only a thousand bad I/®?*, acquired in freehold. Mr Reeves to refer to the effects of bad fe' administration in Canterbury, the M 7 ■( being that a province which •I'-J&r be moat prosperous was in a of depression. There, where the c s^ll lf| tem had been most largely practiced, jjp| where it had yielded moat revenue, A most completely broken down as a settkjfej; system, for there had not been any !*|fe fide settlement there daring the pasty*®; the land was filched and stoien fre- 1 Sg people of Canterbury. (Cheers.) Aapj s !®] this he quoted the names of the purchasers at a Canterbury land in March last, all of them people who be the reverse of small settlers. I® r|Sj Ellesmere district a quantity of l*®“lip lately put up for sale for cash. It bad land, and was not far sway Christchurch ; some of it was put ®P§@ small allotments, of which a Mr ’’'Up Murray bought no fewer than 23. in other oases, the land was uurob***°lll) people who were not likely to sottlajJlpp At the Aehfcurton sale them was 6 W*!!!! the distriot that the land was going 'Sia dwatnted, mad tM it *ctu»Uj "jS

It was said that £2O had been offered to men to put in bogus applications. He did not say these things were true, but lie asked what the Minister had offered, a fair and full inquiry. He characterised the land policy laid down in the Statement as simply amounting to borrowing by the State and rating of the settlers. Referring to the Financial Statement itself, Mr Reeves said it gave a great deal of what was not wanted, and did not give—what was wanted—any hope to the taxpayer. He complained of the prolixity of the Statement, and con* tended that the Budget should always be a short bat concise acoouut of the condition of the Colony, which conld be understood by the people of the Colony to whom it appealed. He maintained that the experience of the last few years showed that the Colony was not in Buch a condition as the Statement would make oat, and that that was due to want of confidence in the country by the people. He taunted the present Government with borrowing every sixpence they could, and only stopping when the credit of the Colony would not allow them to go on. Even now their proposals were for borrowing—not ordinary borrowing, but extraordinary borrowing—a phrase which would live after the Government, as the Minister of Lands’ “ legitimate dummyism ” would. He denied that the Government had carriod out their undertaking to restore a financial equilibrium; they had to ask for fresh taxation'now to carry on their policy. With respect to the population, he pointed out that during many months last year the Colony was steadily losing people, and the Government’s only steps to prevent it were the inclusion of Captain Rnsßell and Mr Hislop in the Ministry. In conclusion he expressed an opinion that the country would consider that ac appeal should be made to it before the policy of the Government was adopted, and that other steps should be taken to endeavour to restore prosperity to what was undoubtedly a great country. (Cheers.) The debate was adjourned at 11.45, on Mr Kerr’s motion, and the House rose.