PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Mail, Issue 907, 19 July 1889, Page 33 (Supplement)

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. THURSDAY, JULY 11. The Speauer took the chair at 2.30 p.m. WELLINGTON AND MAN AW AT U RAILWAY company's empowering bill. Captain Baillie brought up the report of the Private Bills Committee on this Bill. The Committee recommended that the Bill proceed with amendments made by the Committee. NATIVE ASSEMBLAGE BILL. The Attorney-General moved the drat reading of a Bill to prevent Maoris from assembling to the danger of the public peace, which was agreed to. LAW OF LIBEL BILL. This Bill was committed. Clause 4, privileging newspaper reports of public bodies where no malice was proved, evoked a rather lengthy debate. Mr Wilson considered that though no respectable public prints would maliciously publish iibels, still there were scurrilous papers which would take advantage of the privilege, and therefore the clause should be struck out. Mr McLean adopted the same view, as also did Mr Shrimski. Mr Pharazyn and Mr Shephard supported the retention of the clause. Mr Wilson moved the postponement of clause 4, the motion being lost by 14 to 6. The clause was agreed to as printed.—The AttorneyGeneral moved the following new clause, which was agreed to : -“It shall be lawful for any person against whom an action for libel may be brought in the Snpreme Court to satisfy a Judge of the said Court, by affidavit or otherwise, that the plaintiff has no visible means of paying the costs of the defendant should a verdict be not found for the plaintiff, and thereupon such Judge shall have power to make an order that unless the plaintiff within a time to be therein mentioned give full security for the defendant’s costs to the satisfaction of the Registrar of the Supreme Court, or satisfy the Judge that he has a cause of action fit to be prosecuted iu the -Supreme Court, all proceedings shall be stayed. In the event of the plaintiff being unable or unwilling to give such security, or failing to satisfy the judge as aforesaid, the judge may order that the cause be remitted for trial before a Resident Magistrate’s Court therein named, and thereupon the plaintiff shall lodge the original writ and order with the clerk of the said Resident Magistrate's Court, who shall appoiut a day for the hearing of the cause, notice whereof shall be sent by pose, as a registered letter or otherwise, to both parties or their solicitors. The Resident Magistrate’s Court so named shall have all the same powers and jurisdiction to try the cause in like manner as if the same had been duly commenced in the said court in any case within its ordinary jurisdiction. The costs of the proceedings in the Supreme Court shall be allowed according to the scale in use in that court, and of the proceedings in the Resident Magistrate's Court according to the scale in use in that Court.” Mr Shephard moved the following new clause:—•“ Where any person makes a speech to a meeting, and a report containing libellous words purporting to be a report of such speech is published in any newspaper, then, <on proof that the words so published, or words of like import, were uttered by th 6 person making such speech, that person shall, tn the event of any civil proceedings being instituted against him for libel in rs spect of such words, be deemed, for the purposes of such proceedings, to . have himself written and publishad the libellos words attributed to him in such report, or words of like import. The ieport so published shall be prima facie evidence .of the words therein attributed to the speaker having been spoken, but it shall be competent to him to prove any inaccuiacy in the report, or any matter explaining the words attiibuted to him. Such proceedings, if taken, shall be in substitution for, and not in addition to, any proceedings, whether civil or criminal, that may be instituted against him : Provided also that no criminal proceeding under this section shall be taken more than two months after the words were uttered : Provided also that the speaker shall be entitled to any defence of privilege arising from the occasion on which the words were spoken which he w uld have had in case the spoken words had been of themselves actionable.” The motion was agreed to, the Bill being reported with one or two verbal amendments. The Council, at 4.10 p.m., adjourned to the following day. FRIDAY, JULY 12. The Speaker took the chair at 2.30 p.m. NATIVE LAND COURT JUDGES. Mr Pharazyn moved that there be laid upon the table a return giving the names of the several Native Land Court Judges now in the service of the Colony, together with their districts, the dates of their appointments, 1 professions, salaries, allowances, and offices previously held by each. Agree! to. HAWERA BOROUGH ENDOWMENT BILL. Sir F. Whitaker moved that the Hawera Borough Endowment Act, 1889, be made an order of the day for its second reading for Tuesday next .The motion was agreed to. FIRST readings. The Waimea River Works Bill and the Extension of Registration of Births and Deaths Bill were read a first time. FINAL STAGE. The Law of Libel Bill was read a third time and passed. The Council adjourned at 3 o’clock to Tuesday next at the usual hour. TUESDAY, JULY 16. The Speaker took the chair at 2.30 p.m. EMPOWERING BILL. The report of the Wellington and Mana»

watu Railway Comoany’s Bill brought up last week was agreed to. coas;al defences. Mr Stevens, in reply to Mr Pharazyn, said the Government was considering the system of coastal defences known as “position finding,” with a view to its adoption in the Colony. JUDGE WARD AND THE CHRISTIE CASE. Mr Wilson moved that'copies of all cor-: respondence between the Government and Mr District Judge Ward, relative to the case of Christie, a bankrupt, be laid on the table. The motion was agreed to. BOEOI'GH OF HAWERA ENDOWMENT BILL! This Bill was read a second time. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL REFORM BILL. Sir F. Whitaker moved the second reading of this Bill, arid at considerable length explained its provisions, and also the reasons which led up to its introduction this session into the Legislative Council. Referring to the clause providing for an elective Chamber in the place of a nominated House, the AttorneyGeneral remarked that out of the six colonies-which formed the Australasian group, three possessed nominated Upper Chambers, while | the other moiety enjoyed elective Legislative Councils, and therefore it might be regarded as a moot point as to which of the two systems was the preferable. There could, however, be but one opinion that a second Chamber was absolutely necessary in countries where Constitutional Government existed.. This had been proved beyond dispute. Differences of opinion might, and did exist, as to whether tbe second .Chamber should be elective or' nominative, but for his own part he believed a nominated Chamber was dangerous, inasmuch as the Government of the day. might swamp a recalcitrant Council. Any such power must have the effect of injuring the i utility of the Chamber. The Bill provided; 'for an elective Chamber, the new members of which should be elected by the members of both Houses of Parliament. The Bill, however, would not affect the seats of hon members who were at present in the Council.! Another clause provided for the election of. the Speaker by the Council instead of leaving the appointment as at present in the; hands of the Governor. The Attorney-; General referred to the clause providing for, the settlement of disputes between the two branches of the Legislature, who might meet as one House, and so obviate the danger ofi deadlocks. Such a danger, however, he did not apprehend would ever arise, because when the country denounced the passing of any particular measure, he was convinced the Council would invariably acquiesce. In conclusion, he warned the Council that if they did not effect reforms within themselves others would effect reforms for them.

Sir George Whitmore expressed his belief that neither the press nor the country desired any reform of the Council. On the contrary, the press were unanimous in ex-pres-ing the opinion that the Council was a safeguard to the people. He ridiculed the idea of any Government encompassing their own downfall by appointing new members to the Council, and lie very much doubted whether an elective Council was altogether au unmixed blessing. He considered that in the event of both Houses meeting to settle a deadlock they would be found to be in antagonism with the members of the Council on one side, and those of the House of Representatives on the other. Iu conclusion the hon and gallant member expressed the Hope that the Government would take his advice, and refer the Bill to a Select Committee. On the motion of Mr Oliver the debate was adjourned to the following day. REGISTRATION OF BIRTHS BILL. This Bill was read a second time, and ordered ti be committed on Thursday next. The Council, at 4.50, adjourned to the following day. WEDNESDAY, JULY 17. The Speaker took his seat at 2.30 p.m. MARRIAGE BILLS. Mr 'SHEFHARD brought up the reports of the Select Committee on the Marriage Act Amendment Bill and the Otago Marriage Bill. The Committee recommend that the Bills be allowed to proceed. BILL PASSED. Mr Buckley moved the third reading of the Wellington and Manawatu Railway Company’s Drainage Empowering Bill, which was agreed to, and the' Bill passed all final stages. DUTY ON PICTURES. Mr Oliver moved that , there be laid on tbe table of this Council a' return showing the amount of Customs duties paid during the last two financial years on pictures, estimating as nearly as practicable the amount paid on oil paintings apd water colour drawings. The motion was agreed to. HAWERA BOROUGH BILL, This Bill was committed, reported without amendments, and passed final stages.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL REFORM BILL. Mr Oliver, on resuming the debate en the second reading of this Bill, remarked that he firmly believed that tho country demanded no alteration of the construction of the Council; indeed, he believed the Upper Chamber was in close touch with tbe country. The hon gentleman expressed his intention of opposing the second reading. Mr Reynolds favoured the passage of the Bill. Some leform wps required by the country, and he considered it only right that members of the Council should retire either by reason of age or infirmity when their usefulness had passed away. The hon gentleman intimated his intention of supporting the Bill Mr Pharazyn expressed the hope that the Council would consider the Bill gravely and dispassionately. Although he favoured the proposed measure as worthy of the respectful

consideration of the Council, he admitted it contained many objectionable clauses. Dr Pollen ridiculed the proposition of electing future members of the Council by, as it were, dipping the hand into a lucky bag at hazard. The proposition of the AttorneyGeneral for a reform of the Council was incomplete, although, no doubt, it was ingenious ; but until some more comprehensive, and at the same time complete, scheme was put forward for the resuscitation of the Council, he could not give it his support. The hon gentleman moved that the second reading of the Bill be taken that day months.

Mr Scotland and Mr Barnicoat intimated their intention of supporting the motion for the second' reading. Messrs Wilson, Walker, and Peacock expressed their determination of opposing the motion.

Mr Shephard hoped the Government would meet the wish of many members of the CoiiDcil to refer it to a Select Committee, or else defer the subject till the electorates had had an opportunity of deciding the matter. He moved the adjournment of the debate to tho next day. This was agreed to. At 5 o’clock the Council adjourned to the following day. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. THURSDAY, JULY 11. The House met at 2.30. ANSWERS TO 4 QUESTIONS. In answer to questions, Ministers said it would not be necessary to instruct the Sweating System Commission to report on the Government workshops, because the employes therein were not treated in such a way as to call for inquiry. The Government did not think it was necessary to amend the law so as to prevent failure of justice in consequence of technical errors in warrants of commitment. The Minister for Justice would, however, consider it. Steps would be taken to provide for lists of person incarcerated in lunatic asylums being open to the public.—lt was intended to bring in a Bill to enable adjoining Road Boards and other local bodies to erect bridges.—The restrictions on eighty acres of land at Foxton awarded to the late Parakaia Ponepa had been removed. —The Government had no authority as to the reading-books used in schools, but would be glad to put any suitable books into the authorised list for use. —The Government would do all they could to enforce the compulsory clauses of the Education Act, but the matter was one for the Education Boards. BILL INTRODUCED. 4 A Bill to provide for thß Representation of Seamen' was introducad by Mr Joyce and read a first time. WAIMEA RIVERWORKS BILL. This Bill was agreed to without amend, ment in committee, reported, and read a third time' and passed. NAPIER HIGH SCHOOL LEASES VALIDATION BILL. 4 Mr Ormond moved the second reading of this Bill, which was agreed to. OAMARU HARBOUR BOARD LOAN BILL. Mr Duncan (in the absence of Mr Hislop) moved the second reading of this Bill, which empowers the Board to borrow £70,000 to. pay off existing loans. A long discussion ensued, several members who opposed the Bill agreeing not to press their objections during the absence of Mr Hislop through illness. Dr Newman censured the Government for having during the last two years advanced this board £56., 000, including taking up £11,300 worth of gas debentures. He also pointed.out thr*t according to papers laid on the table the Government had promised to take ub this 1 oan ot £70,000 as soon as the Bill had passe c».

The second reading of the Bill agreed to on the voices.

Dr Newmian wished to have the Bill referred to'the Public Accounts Committee to report upon the mauner in which trust funds had been advanced to the Board. The Premier taunted Dr Newman with wishing to pose as a financial authority, and urged him, if he wished to inquire into these advances, to do so independently, and not at theexpenseof par'fciculardistricts. The Government anti the Htarbour Board desired nothing better than full inquiry ; the securities given were ample. Upon the Premier .undertaking that Government advances to the Oamaru Harbour Board should be referred to the Public Accounts Committiao, :uo further opposition was offered to the* BiJl, the committal of; which was qet down for Thursday. devenport cemetery bill. Mr Monk moved th/e second reading of this Bill, which was agreed to by 36 to 29. ONEHUNGA. CEMETERY BILL Mr Hamlin moved the second reading of this Bill which was agreed to. NELSON FORESHORE RESERVE BILL. Mr Harris ess moved the second reading of this Bill, which was a greed to. The usual adjournment; was taken at 5.30. EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30. AUCTIONEERS. -BILL. Mr Samuel moved the* second reading, of this Bill, which, he explained, had been introduced in previous sessions. Its principle provisions are that applications for licenses shall be beard by the ?Resident Magistrate, the net balance of the f ees'received to be paid to the local authorities j that a person’holding a license can sell in any part of the Colony.

After discussion the- was agreed to on the voices. CALIFORNIAN THISTJ-Tfi ERADICATION BILL. Mr T„ Mackenzie moved the second read* ing of this Bill, th e object of which is to prevent the spread • of the Californian thistle and Bathurst burr,

After a long discussion the motion was | carried on the voices. licensing act amendment bill. Mr Fish moved the second reading ef this Bill, the object of which is to enable married women to hold licenses. Agreed to. registration of births extension bill. This Bill was agreed to in committee, and read a third time and passed. UNIVERSITY OF OTAGO COUNCIL ELECTION BILL. ' Dr Fitchett moved the second reading of this Bill, providing for the better government of the University of Otago. The Bill was objected to by Mr Fulton and Mr Downie Stewart. The Minister for Justice said the Government were of opinion that some change should be made iu the government of the University. The second reading was agreed to on the voices. DOG REGISTRATION ACT AMENDMENT BILL. Mr Duncan moved the second reading of this Bill, which provides that a shepherd or driver of sheep or cattle may have four dogs registered for 2s 6d each ; and that on dogs used exclusively for rabbiting purposes a fee of a shilling each shall be paid.—Agreed to. ! ’. 1 " ' 4 . . ' ' r ‘.' • * The House rose at 10.40. FRIDAY, JULY 12. The House met at 2.30. CHALLENGING THE SPEAKER'S RULING. Mr Scobie Mackenzie gave notice to move on Tuesday ; —(1) That in the opinion of this House the Private Schools Bill being a Bill for granting public money, was not introduced into thejHouse in accordance with the Standing Orders and the law of Parliament ; (2) that in connection therewith the ruling given that a member rising to a point of order may not interrupt another member in a debate, is not in accordance with the Standing Orders and the law of Parliament ; (3) that it is not desirable any member rising to address the Chair should be instructed by the Chair to be brief, inasmuch as it is not the function oi the Chair to judge of brevity, and the enforcement of it would amount to a curtailment of that right of free speech which is the constitutional privilege of every member in his representative capacity. (Sir George Grey : Hear, hear.) ' The Speaker said it would be observed that that notice had been cheered. He thought that the matter should be dealt with at once. He was prepared to give his reply forthwith. It was usual, he belived, not to discußS the Speaker’s ruling while the Speaker was in the chair, and he suggested that this matter should be discussed in committee. He should then state his reasons for the ruling he gave, and leave it to the Coni- * mittee to pass such judgment as they thought fit. ; . 1 Mr Mackenzie said he had given notice for Tuesday, after consulting the Speaker, who asked him to give notice. He had not a word to say against the Speaker, but as he believed an error had been committed he wished to rectify it. The Speaker said he had sat in the chair for ten years, and had never been censured by the House. On two notices of motion censuring him had been tabled, and after standing on the Order Paper from week to week were never moved;' he was never afforded an opportunity of vindicating himself. He had no feeling against Mr Mackenzie, but he thought that as a charge was brought ‘ against him (the Speaker), it should be discussed while the circumstances were fresh in the minds of members. Mr Mackenzie suggested that the Speaker’s wish—with which he perfectly agreed—would be met by the Government undertaking that the matter should be allowed to come on on Tuesday. The Speaker said he understood from the cheer with which the notice was greeted, that members were anxious to go on with the matter, and he had therefore expressed his willingness to proceed with it at once. ' THE GASPARINI CORRESPONDENCE. ‘ The Premier made a statement with respect to Mr Fisher's explanation of the publication of the Gasparini correspondence. Mr Fisher had written' a letter to the Post the previous evening making statements whioh were not quite correct as to the complaint of the Governor against his printing the Gasparini correspondence. What actually 1 took place, was this: It was a common practice among Ministers to have lengthy correspondence printed for their use, especially if copies had to be sent Home. Mr Fisher wrote a very long memorandum to the Governor, and for his convenience had it printed after consulting the Premier, who agreed that it; could be done. That was all he (the Premier) knew of printing the correspondence. He was never consulted by Mn Fisher on the subject, nor did he think any of his colleagues were. A short argument ensued between the Premier and Mr Fisher as to whether or not the latter had said he had the papers printed at the Governor’s request. Mr Fisher suggested that the Hansard proof should be taken as proving what he said, but the Premier objected to that. Mr Fisher said what he said was that the correspondence was put into print for the convenience of the Governor; that afterward the Governor called at his office and suggested an alteration, which was at once acceded to, and that the Governor then expressed regret that Mr Fisher had been subjected to such annoyance in connection with such an unfounded accusation.

The Pkemier : But the imputation was that the Governor had requested them to be put into print. ' Mr Fisher : I did not say so, uor did I intend to convey such an impression. The Premier asked on whose authority they were printed, the imputation being that it was done by the. Governor, but it was not at the Governor’a request. However, he

w as satisfied, and would only say that the correspondence was printed by the direction of Mr Fisher b*mself without

reference to his colleagues. He himself did not hear of it being printed, except Mr Fisher s memorandum. The hon. gentleman, however, had the whole of thecorrespondence printed in the form to which he had alluded. No imprint was put on papers printed in that way, and it was not looked

upon as printing “by authority.” Onthe 2nd of October last Mr Fisher sent to the Government Printing Office a revised edition,

inserting certain minutes of.the Government with amendments of his own. 208 copies of this were printed and brought to him. Apparently the hon. gentleman wisaed to get his letter printed in exactly the same form as it was originally written, ; and he accordingly had inserted some parts which were struck out after consultation with the Premier, and added a postscript oE two pages. The records of the Printing Office showed that on the 19th of October there were delivered to his private secretary 207 copies of this, printed “by authority and bearing the imprint. On the Ist ,of April, a week before resigning, Mr Fisher had printed at the Printing Office 200 eopies of two letters which he had received from his superior consuls, approving the oourse he had followed.—-(Mr Fisher : Those are tho two letters now in Hansard.) —He then sent back 199 eopies of the second edition and had this fixed in. When Mr Fisher had the second edition.printed he sent back most of the first, but the foreman of the printing office' did not dearly reed* lect that. The Premier went on to complain that the correspondence had apparently been made public, seeing that in an article in the Dunedin Herald of the 20th April the writer asserted that he bad the papers before him, He (the Premier) would lay the various editions on the table for tbe convenience of members. The gravity «>f the thing consisted ' in the circumstance that this was correspondence between the Governor, his Ministers, and a foreign consul. It was practically an Imperial matter, and for a Minister to publish the correspondence without reference to his colleagues was a very serious thing. There would be an end to good go* vernment if Ministers were to do this.

Mr Seddon : Does the Premier say that in a case where a Minister is accused, as in this case ?

The Premier said Mr Fisher shonld have waited till the correspondence was ordered by Parliament. The difficulty was that he 1 had it printed for his own vindication, using his position as Minister of Education tog' strengthen his position as Italian.. Consul. He formally moved the adjournment of the House.

Mr Fisher said the mountain* had been in ! terrible labour and had produced a most < ridiculous mouse. What was this charge brought against him? It was that he had had this correspondence printed of which the Premier said he had no right to make use because it was an Imperial matter. .4 But Mr Seddon had struck the keynote of the question, for he (Mr Fißher) was charged with conniving at the escape of a criminal. Was it not within his own knowledge that it was the intention of a certain section people in Wellington,including politicians of high standing, to make serious charges against him during the present session of Parliament, anticipating that he would not i have the papers wherewith to reply ? These i people went to the Premier to ask him never to let the papers see the light of day! He 3 charged the Premier with delaying the cor* respondence, and said he only forwarded his letter to the Governor at the solicitation of a friend of his (Mr Fisher's), Mr Water* house. He appealed to the human interest of the House whether he was not right iu defending himself from such a serious charge. He denied altogether that it was a matter in which the Governor alone was concerned ; it was a matter affecting him (Mr Fisher) alone. . Was it not the eddies!: thing in the! world that the vice-consul should request the Premiep that Mr FisherV defence “should under no consideration b

made public 7” He admitted sending tw copies to friends of his own in Dunedin, ar was sorry it had been referred to in the new papers. He pointed out that the Frer

Vice; Consul had sent to Sydney and to P letters making charges against him (Mr Fisher); and what was the remark in the Dunedin Herald compared with that ? The Premier agreed with him that the corre* spondence should be printed to be sent to the Governor. Had the present Governor known that he could not have written the letter appearing in the correspondence ? He did not know, however, that the papers were printed after consultation with the Premier.

The Premier : You never ocmsulted me. Mr Fisher : Did you not receive the printed papers at New Plymouth ? : The Premier: No, only your memorau* dum, which I had agreed should be printed. Mr Fisher could hardly believe his ears, and would put the question again. The Premier repeated that lie only re* ceived Mr Fisher’s memorandum in print, and referred Mr Fisher to his letter which appeared in the Post of the previous day, “I send you copies of the memorandum.” Mr Fisher, after hearing that statement, was never so dumbfounded in his life. 9 The Premier again referred Mr Fisher to his letter in which “he told the truth.”

. Mr Fisher went on to explain that ha did not order the words “ by authority ” to be put on the papers. He denied that he had circulated the papers, and said that with the exception of six copies he had them in his house now. He objected to the Go* vernor’s letter (objecting to the publication of the correspondence), because his Excel, lency, when he wrote it, did not know that he (Mr Fisher) had consulted the Premier about it ; and he asserted that the Premier!

by his references to the imprint, had magnified the thing into undue importance. As to the escape of Gasparini, he was satisfied with the assurances of pe pie who had given the correspondence careful attention that he was cleared from the imputation made against him. Sir Geokge Grey thought all this difficulty arose through a Minister of the Crown acting as servant to a foreign power ; and he suggested that the House should. in some formal manner prevent such a position occurring again. . . Mr Fisher explained that it was with the assent of the Cabinet that he became Consul for Italy. Mr Seddon maintained that the French Consul had made unfair charges against Mr Fisher, whtoh had been completely refuted. (Another sharp discussion ensued, in which the Premier said he received, when at New Plymouth, Mr Fisher’s letter and enclosures.) Mr Samuel, while he claimed to act in the spirit of an Opposition member, and consequently willing to listen to anything tending to show that the Government were unfit to hold office, thought a great deal too. much had been made of this matter. He considered the first printed copies were simply a multi, plication of copies for the use of the Governor and Ministers, but not tor outside circulation. In having the correspondence printed subsequently, Mr Fisher had committed an error of judgment, but, in his opinion, nothing more. He could not see that what Mr Fisher had done was dishonourable, or that he deserved the strong condemnation of the Premier, He repeated a suggestion by Mr Seddon that each of the three editions of the correspondence should be printed and laid on the table. The Premier, replying, said he was now oharged with siding with the French Consul. He disagreed entirely with Mr Samuel, holding that a high question of public morality was at issue. The Government did their best to defend Mr Fisher, and he went behind their back' to publish this correspondence. He referred the House to the papers themselves to set what his (the Pre. mier’s) action had been. If the hon. gentleman bad stood to hiß colleagues they would have stood to him ;horoughly. Theinfficulty, however, Was that Mr Fisher was in a double position, aad mixed the Minister of Education and the Italian Consul. Mr Fisher was very anxious to get the consulship, because it Was a j ermanenoy, and they had frequent consultations with the law officers of the Crown. It was eventually agreed that if any quest : on arose some other person should temporarily act as Consul. Put the hon gentleman could not distinguish between the two positions ; and be (the Premier) would never again allow a colleague of his to act as Consul. The hon member wrote a letter which, in his (the Premier's) opinion, would have damaged him, and at his request alterations were made in it. It was because his “smart” letter was not sent in chat he accused his colleagues of acting disloyally. motion for the adjournment of the House'was then put and lost on the voices. * Answers to questions.

In answer to questions, Ministers said it Would considerably increase the public expenditure to pay Government employes fortnightly instead of monthly, but the Government would inquire into the subject.— The Colonial Secretary would be glad to con/Suit Mr Goldie on the advisableoess of introducing a Bill to amend the Municipal Corporations Act.—The Government did not think there waa any necessity to amend the Rating A.ct so as to limit the powers of ..-vlDcal bodies to sell land for overdue rates, full provision being made for due notice being given to the persons concerned. —It was not proposed to offer a bonus for discovery of ironsand near Dunedin.—Provision could be made by gazetting the provisions of the Diseased Cattle Act to prevent the . spread of tuberculosis, and- the preliminary steps in connection therewith had already been taken. It was quite true that some members of the Salvation Army were recently incarcerated in Napier Gaol in default of payment of fines for walking in procession. If it was found that the by-laws under which this was done were legal and were bearing heavily on the Salvation Army, they would at once bring in a measure to give relief.—The Colonial Secretary wou d be glad to make inquiries as to the necessity for amending the Adultera tion Prevention Aot with respect to fancy bread. —The Government did not see their vay to opening the sealing season this year, ut would shortly bring down a Bill to give lem greater power in dealing with sealing id oyster fisheries, The Government aid consider the necessity of giving a rtiVard for improvements in flax-dressing machinery. GOVERNMENT BUSINESS ON WEDNESDAYS. The Premier moved that after next week Government business take precedence on Wednesdays. Sir Geokge Grey strongly objected to the moti ,n, as taking away the rights of private members. The discussion was proceeding when the 5.30 adjournment was taken. EVENING SITTING. Th.e-House resumed at 7.30. GOVERNMENT BUSINESS ON WEDNESDAYS. An amendment by Mr Verrall to the effect that the motion should not take effect until The Premier’s motion was carried on division by 53 to 22. MONDAY’S SITTINGS. The Premier moved that the House, at its rising, adjourn till 7-30 on Monday night for Government business. (Ciies of “No,” and “Hear, hear.”) The Government were willing to go on with the business if the House desired it ; if not they would eDjoy their holiday as mnoh as other members. Sir George Grey moved, as an amendment, that the House meet on Monday night for the consideration of private bills set down for Wednesday of the week after next.

The Premier, in answet to Mr Moss, said the Publicg Works Statement would have been down that d»y had it not been the wish of the House (including Mr Moss’) that the Representation Bill should be dealt with first.

Mr Fish warmly opposed Monday sittings on the ground that they would facilitate the demands of the country members with respect to the representation margin—demands which he intended to resist by every legitimate means. After a short discussion the Premier agreed to take it on the voices. Sir George Grey’s amendment was lost, and the Speaker ruled that the noes had it on the substantive motion. Mr Tanner called for a division, and the Ministers voted against their motion, having agreed to let it go on the voices. The motion was lost by 52 to 24. law op libel act. This Bill was received from the Legislative Council and read a first time. REPRESENTATION BILL. Mr Allen, resuming the debate on the second reading of this Bill, Bpoke in favour of the principle of the Bill, remarking that he had intended to oppose the Bill on the ground that an important question like this should have gone before the electors. Mr Marchant opposed the Bill, on the principal grounds that there was no need for it, that it was necessary that particular districts should have their representatives, that under the Hare system the large cities would overshadow the surrounding districts, while young men would be deprived of their ohance of getting into Parliament. He also pointed out that the system had been tried in France, and was not a success there. Dr Hodgkinson intimated that he should vote for the Bill, but did not altogether approve the proposals contained in it, considering, as he did, that the proposed districts were too large. Mr T. Thompson opposed the Bill, holding that it ought to be submitted to the country before coming before the House. Mr Verrall also opposed the Bill. ' Mr Mills opposed the Bill, believing that although the theory of the Hare system was correct, it would not apply well to a sparsely populated country like New Zealand. He was of opinion, also, that under that system many electors would lose their privileges by voting on a ticket given to them by some oauous. Mr Downie Stewart supported the Bill, considering the Hare system preferable to s that now in force. 1

Leave was given to Mr Fish to withdraw * his amendment (that the Bill be read a second 1 time that day six months). J The Colonial Secretary asked permis- ] sion to withdraw the Bill. Leave was refused, ) Mr Saunders opposing it. (Leave to withdraw a Bill can only be obtained by the unanimous consent of the House.)

The Colonial Secretary replied to the arguments of those who had opposed the Bill, and explained, finally, that one reason why the Government had asked leave to withdraw the measure was that many hon gentlemen had represented that they had not had time to study the Bill, and would have to vote against it. __ The Premier asked the indulgence of the House to point out to Mr Saunders the very awkward position in which the Government were placed. The Government had promised to withdraw the Bill, and if it went to a divisiou would have to vote against it. The rejection of a Bill would also mean a delay of a day or two in introducing a new one. He appealed to Mr Saunders and to the leader of the Opposition to assist the Government to withdraw the Bill. Mr Saunders intimated that he would not, in the circumstances, oppose the withdrawal of the Bill. Mr W. P. Reeves thought that if the Government brought in Bills of this kind they snould take the consequences. Upon the question being put that the Bill be withdrawn, Mr W. P. Reeves and Mr Hutchison gave their voices against it. The Speaker : The Bill cannot be withdrawn. Mr Ballanck : The hon. gentleman is'not opposing the withdrawal of the Bill. The question was again put, and leave given to withdraw the Bill. Another Representation Bill was then introduced and read a first time, its second reading being set down for Tuesday next. DUNEDIN EXHIBITION PUBLIC STREET CLOSING AND LICENSING BILL. This Bill was committed. Clause 4, Exhibition building may be licensed.—Mr Monk moved that this clause be withdrawn.—Mr Rhodes moved to submit the question to a poll of the ratepayers. This was agreed to, and on the motion of Major Steward a further amendment was added that the cost of such poll should be made eharegable against the New Zealand Exhibition Company. On division the clause as amended was carried by 27 to 19. The Bill was reported, and the third reading set down for next week. The House rose at 11.45. TUESDAY, JULY 17. The House met at 2.30. CHURCH PROPERTY TROST (CANTERBURY) BILL.' Sir John Hall moved the second reading of this Bill.— Agreed to. PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE. The Premier moved that a public accounts oommittee be set up, consisting of the following members Messrs Ballance, Barron, Larnach, Macarthur, Moss, Percival, Rhodes, Samuel, Turnbull, Valentine, Wilson, Sir John Hall, Dr Newman and the mover.

Mr Seddon suggested that Mr Hutchison should be put on the oommittee. The Premier said he had agreed with the leader of the Opposition as to the names. Mr H utchison said he had not asked Mr Seddon to nominate him, nor did he aspire to the position. The motion was carried. ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS.

Ministers said, in answer to questions, they hoped to be able this session to mane proposals in connection with the West Coast settlement reserves.—Provision was made in the Charitable Aid Bill for differentiating innocent children from criminal children supported by charitable aid. —The Premier would be glad to give an opportunity for discussion of the question of Imperial federation, but did not think the question was ripe yet for discussion. —lt was possible that a Bill iD connection with local bodies’ audits would be brought in.—lt was not proposed to abolish the duty on sugar.

woodville-eketahuna railway. Mr Smith asked the Government, If they will bring in a Bill to provide for the making of the railway line between Eketahuna and Woodville on similar terms to those proposed in connection with the Otago Centril Railway ? The Premier said he would not. This line was in no respect in the same position as the Otago Central, for the district was well provided with railways, and everyone on the main road was within, at the most, 13 miles of a railway. The Government were of opinion that this line should be undertaken so soon as they saw their way to get the money, but it was in no way comparable with the Otago Central, where half a million of money was lying Idle, while the whole of the interior of Otago had no railways. He quite agreed that it was desirable to complete this line as soon as possible. Dr Newman, who moved the adjournment of the House, said the railway would pay well and immediately. It occupied a unique position in this respect, that it was the only railway in the Colony that would pay working expenses as well as interest. Instead of being a burden on the consolidated fund it would be an advantage to the Colony. Mr Gutnness : What will it oost ?

Dr Newman said £145,000. No one knowing the capabilities of the district could doubt that the extension of the railway would pay. Mr Buchanan said that, although he and Mr Beetham had for a long time recognised that this extension would open up one of the richest districts in the Colony—a district which would probably become a dairy centre of the Colony—they had refrained from forcing it on the Government, feeling that if every member did that there would be no end to expenditure of public money. He considered that comparisons between this line and the Otago Central must be in favour of the latter ; but if expenditure on railways was resumed, he thought no Government ought to overlook the EketahunaWoodville line.

Mr Tanner, recognising that when there was a surplus it was to be devoted to necessary works, thought that apparently the Government had devoted their surplus to the Otago Central. (“No.”) Then he understood the question was still'open. (Cheers, i In that case he urged this line on the consideration of the Government.

Mr MenTeaTh considered the real question was whether any railways were to be carried on. He ridiculed tinkering with the public works policy, and said it was useless to carry on one or two lines—all mu~t be carried on or none. (Cheers.) He refused to advocate an exception in favour of one particular line because it affected his district. -(Hear, hear.) Mr Samuel censured the Government for the new departure they had taken in connection with the Otago Central. Mr J. C. Brown expressed appreciation of the value of this line, and said the Wellington and Hawkes Bay members had been very remiss in not forcing it on the attention of the Government.

Colonel Fraser asked what worse style of borrowing there could be than mortgaging the trust funds of the Colony to make what was admitted to be the most unpromising line in the Colony ? (Cheers.) Mr Seddon considered that undue prominence had been given to the Otago Central, and suggested that it was because the Otago members of the Cabinet ruled it. The Premier, after some further debate, asked the House to proceed with the business, and deprecated wasting time in discussing on a side issue a question which would have to come before the House in a formal way. Mr Smith warmly commended this line to the consideration of the House as a work which would pay. Mr Scobie Mackenzie urged that the Otago Central Bill should be dealt with on its merits, and said that some of the members who were now opposing it were those who had formerly recommended that the line should be carried to the point now proposed. Mr Ward was prepared to assist in carrying the Otago Central line on provided that the same facilities were given to other lines now in an unfinished condition. He instanced the Seaward Bush railway. Dr Newman, replying, remarked that in the future he should not allow the Premier to address him, as he had frequently done, in terms only just within the bounds of Parliamentary decency. If the hon. gentleman again accused him of “ talking to his constituents ’ he would bring up an hour’s list of the Premier’s performances iu the interest of his constituents, showing how he had used his influence for them. (Hear, hear.) The motion for adjournment was lost on the voices.

BILLS INTRODUCED. The following Bills were introduced and read a first time :Mr Buxton The Geraldine Public Schools Site Bill ; Mr '"’urnbull —A Bill to further amend The Employment of females and Others Aot 1885. CHALLENGING THB SPEAKER’S RULING. Mr Scobie Mackenzie urged that the motion, of which he had given notice, traversing the ruling of the Speaker on the Private Schools Bill, should be proceeded with at onoe.

The Speaker said it was true he had suggested that the motion should be proceeded with at once, but as Mr Mackenzie had put it on the Order Paper he concluded i that the hon member wished it to take » £ S ordinary course. The Premier said important busines?, was set down, and although Mr Mack' enzie's motion was of some importance, he no j. think it would suffer by being allowed to stand over for a few days. Mr Mackenzie : I see. ' representation BILL. TheCoLONiALSECRET ARYmovetl the second reading of this Bill. He said the Government proposed in it to revert to the margin allowed to country districts before the Act of 1887, namely, 25 per cent. This deduction would only be made from the four bia cities and boroughs and town districts within a mile of them ; and consequently the deduction would not be made from small boroughs, as ÜBed to be the case. The amal-

gamation jof city electorates was also provided for, and provision was made for bringing the city electorates to the requisite size. Each city would have three membars. Mr Moss, who arose amidst cries of “Divide,” asked whether a Bill like this—a most cunning, tortuous Bill, only equalled by the Otago Central—should be read a second time without debate ? He maintained that the effect of the Bill was to give the country districts a margin of 33 per cent. He asked whether the Government would adjourn the debate. The Premier said they would not. At 5.5 the debate was adjourned till 7.30, at Mr Moss’ request.

EYENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30. REPRESENTATION bill. The Colonial Secretaky said he had during the afternoon contradicted Mr W. P. Reeves, who said 25 per cent deducted from the towns was equal to 33§ per cent, added to the onuntry districts. He found now th-*t he was incorrect in that denial, and that it did represent 33J per cent. Mr Taylor, continuing the debate, taunted the Premier with allowing the country members to demand 33& per cent, from him. He warned the Government to “ keep their weather eye open,” or they would find the oountry members turning round on them. He strongly disapproved amalgamation of city electorates. He challenged the Colonial Secretary to withdraw this Bill and give the country districts 25 per cent actual.

Dr Hodgkinson contended that the margin for the country members should not exceed 25 . per cent. He thought, also, that the country districts should be amalgamated, and intimated his intention of moving in that direction y/hen the Bill was in committee.

Mr Taiwhanga spoke against the Bill, and was followed by Mr R. Reeves, who said the Maoris were very well treated, seeing that they were not to lose any members. Mr Fish said he was in a unique position. He was supporting a Government whom he wished to keep in office, and it was his miserable lot to have to oppose every Bill they had brought in during the present session. He denounced the present Bill a 3 doing a great injustice, and said he should not be surprised to see the country members presently demanding that the towns should be disfranchised altogether. Why, he heard in the lobbies, though he did not believe it, that there was a majority now in favour of disfranchising Wellington and its suburbs for seven miles round 1 Was not the fact that the country members had a majority now strong enough to carry this great wrong sufficient to show that they needed no further advantage ? The position of the Government in this matter was pitiable. The Colonial Secretary introduced this great change, and what argument, what reason, did he give ? None at all. He made a most miserable, most wretched speech. Mr Fish went on to taunt the Government with changing their opinions from favouring the Hare system to this Bill—a change because a demand was made on them by a majority. He denied that any change was needed in the way of amalgamating city electorates, and contended that what was needed was rest, and a cessation of these constant changes in the electoral laws. Having spoken at some length Mr Fish said he should not offer any opposition to the Bill at that stage, but in committee he should state hfs views probably “at considerable length and with great frequency.”

Mr Vekrall intimated his intention of moving an amendment to the effect that the Act of 1887 should be repealed. Mr Allen, at 9.5, moved the adjournment of the debate.

After a short discussion (in the course of which Mr Ballance said he understood that the Government had agreed to the adjournment, as there was plenty of business to go on with) the adjournment was carried by 56 to 22.

The Colonial Secretary moved that the adjournment be till next evening at 7.30. Several members opposed this, pointing out that next day was a private members' day, for which three Bills were set down. The Premier said the House governed the course of its business, and the Government were quite willing to accept the view of the majority in the matter. The three privat members’ Bills set down for next evenin'" 0 what were they compared with this BiJ’ & Mr Guinness moved as an ame r 1 ' that the debate be adjourned till r -lament without fixing the hour. This w p * ext d ® on the voices. 8 agreed to

CHATTELS transfer The Premier moved the bill. of this Bill.—Agreed to. second reading DUNEDIN EXHIBITION v LICENSIT STREET-CLOSING AND This Bill (report©'" ' G bi ll. read a third time a- d from Committee) was ad passed. FIRE AND MART' -NE INSURANCE COMPANIES The Mint' bill. second read" dTE * -J^ NDS ™ OVed * h ? its object ID § °J thlS ’ eJ LP I « JHn B that panies o was P ufc New Zealand companies. a tbe same footing as foreign com* j: a „ - motion was agreed to after a short .ussion. LAW OF LIBEL BILL. The Colonial Secretary moved the I second reading of this Bill, explaining that its object was to assimilate the law of the Colony to that of England with respect to libel. He briefly explained the provisions ) of the Bill which had been passed in the Legislative Council, and remarked that he. dissented from one or two minor provisions. Mr Downie Stewart objected to that section which convicted a man who tjpoke on a platform of publishing his speech. A man i who spoke in this way was presumed to have written and published his speech, and people might be convicted of libel on a chance answer. He thought that the plaintiff instead of being called Upon to give surety for the defendant’s full costs should only be required to give surety tip to £SO. Mr Ballance agreed with Mr Stewart that the Bill would place public speakers in ! an unfair position. It would open up' a Btate

of things only paralleled by the state of politios in the United States. At the present time the press of this Colony had reasonable latitude. He considered that the Resident Magistrates were not qualified bv their training to try libel actions which were to be referred to them; and he agreed that the security given by the plaintiff for defendant’s costs should be limited to £SO. Mr Izard supported the Bill, holding it desirable to protect newspaper proprietors' fiom vexatious actions ; but he dissented from the clause which gave Resident Magistrates power to deal with libel actions, and also to the provision that the defendant could call on the plaintiff to give security for costs. That privilege was not given in other cases, and he did not see why it should be given to newspaper proprietors. Another clause practically made a speakeropen to prosecution for libel who would, otherwise not have been amenable to it. Mr T. Mackenzie thought the Bill contained many improvements, but that the* clause last referred to by Mr Izard puir-a. speaker in the hands of the newspaper. Mr Kerr also thought the Bill would give newspapers undue power, and said there were some papers who would invariably misrepresent, and one (which he could name) in Wellington which never came out withouta libel on somebody. Mr J. C. Brown supported the Bill, and took the opportunity of saying that a paragraph referring to him, which had gone the rounds of the papers, was almost entirely untrue. Ihe second reading was agreed to. patents, designs and tradesmakks bill., The House went into committee on this; Bill. Progress was reported at 11 o'clock,, and the House rose.

(Continued on page 15.)