PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Mail, Issue 859, 17 August 1888, Page 29

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

THURSDAY, AUGUST 9. The Speaker took the chair at 52.30 p.m. LAND BOARDS. Mr Peter moved that a return be laid upon the table of the names of the members of the various Land Boards, the fees and travelling expenses paid to each member, also the value of the land disposed of by each Board, from the 31st March, 1887, to Slßt March, ISBB.' Agreed to. RABBIT PEST. Mt Phakazyn moved that tho report of the Joint Rabbit Pest Committee be referred baok to the Committee. Agreed to. LEAVE OF ABSENCE. Mr Phakazyn moved that leave of absence be granted to Captain Fraser for the remainder of the session, on medical certificate. Motion agreed to. LAND BILL. This Bill passed through all its final MINING ACT AMENDMENT BILL. On the motion for the third reading of this Bill, „ : . Mr Wilson moved as an,amendment tnat the Bill be read a third time that day six months. A debate ensued, and ultimately tho amendment was lost on a division by 21 to 9. The third reading was agreed to, and the Bill passed all final stages. NAVAL AND MILITARY SETTLERS’ LAND CLAIMS..

Mr Waterhouse, on the motion for the third reading of this Bill, moved as an amendment that it be laid asida. Sir George Whitmore again urged the claims of those persona..interested in the passing of the Bill, who had, in the. Colony’s extremity, taken np arms against the Queen’s enemies. After discussion, a division was taken, with the result that the amendment was agreed to by 17 to 13, and the Bill was lost. SLAUGHTERHOUSES AMENDMENT BILL. The Council considered this Bill in committee. The Bill was reported with amendments, SECOND READINGS. The following Bills were read a second time Local Courts Proceedings Bill, Rating Act Amendment Bill, and Waikato Agricultural College Model Farm Bill, The Council took the dinner adjournment at 5 p.m. EVENING SITTING. The Counoil resumed at 7.30. BILLS COMMITTED. The following Bills were considered in committee, reported without amendment, read a third time, and passed:—Kaiapoi Drillshed Bill, Timaru. Harbour Board Loan Act 1885 Amendment Bill, and Ngaruawahia Cemetery Reserves Leasing Bill. The Auckland Harbour Improvement Bill and the Otago Harbour Board..lndemnity and Lands Testing Bill were reported .with amendments. The Council adjourned at 9.10 p.m. FRIDAY, AUGUST 10. The Council met at~2.30 p.m. THE PUBLIC.ESTATE. Mr Waterhouse moved, That an address be presented to hia.Excellency the Governor, representing that, whereas a practice has erept into Parliament of Bills making grants of land belonging to the Crown being introduced by private members, contrary to the spirit, if not the letter, of the Constitution ; and whereas the continuance of snch a practice is calculated to lead to the waste of the public estate, this Council requests that his Excellency will cause a Bill to be introduced into Parliament providing that-no Bills disposing of lands belonging to the Crown shall be introduced into Parliament except in the manner provided in the Constitution Act as regards the introduction of Bills disposing of moneys of the Crown. The- Attorney-General expressed the hope that the motion would be withdrawn, as it was needless. _At present, before a private member could' introduce a Bill dealing with the public estate, he must first obtain the assent of a Minister of the Crown.

Mr Shephard supported the view of the snbject as advanced by the AttorneyGeneral. The motion, after discussion, was agreed to on the voices..

SECOND READINGS; . The Clyde Domain Bill, District Courts Act Amendment Bill, Proclamation Validation Bill, Sheep Act Amendment Bill, Ross Compensation Bill, Mackenzie Land Bill, Customs Duties Consolidation Act Amendment Bill, Post-office (Foreign Parcels) Bill were read a second time.

BILLS IN COMMITTEE. The following Bills passed through Committee :—The Ellesmere Lake Lands Bill, and the Local Courts Proceedings Bill, the former with amendments aad.the latter without amendments. This last-mentioned Bill was read a third time and passed. OTAGO HARBOUR BOARD INDEMNITY BILL. This Bill was read a third time and passed. The Council at 5 p.m. adjourned to Tuesday. TUESDAY7AUGUST 14. The Council met at 2.30 p.m. DISQUALLFCATION OF SEATS. The Select Committee on this subject reported that Sir F. Whitaker was absent from the Council during the first and second sessions of 1884, but that he obtained leave of absence from theGovernorforthesaid second session. Mr Waterhouse was absent from the Counoil during the session of 1885 with leave from the Governor, and during that of 1886 without leave; that Mr Pharazyn was absent during the session of 1886 with leave, and absent without leave during the session of 1887; that Mr Oliver was absent during the sessions 1885 and 1886 with leave from the Governor. Dr Pollen moved that the report be printed and considered on Thursday next. Agreed to. ' NATIVE biles. The Maori Real Estate Management Bill and Native Land Frauds Protection Bill were read a first time. MOTION- ’ Mr Peter moved that the Live Stock Committee be revived to take into considers-

tion tho importation of live stock from Australia.—Agreed to. THIRD READING. The Ellesmere .Lake Lands Bill was read a third time and passed.

IN COMMITTEE. The following Bills wore committed and reported without amendments, and passed final stages : —Proclamation Validation Bill, Sheep Act Amendment Bill, Customs Duties Consolidation Amendment Bill, Tobacco Amendment Bill. Bills in which progress was reported, leave being given to sit again : —Slaughterhouses Amendment Bill, Post Office (Foreign Parcels) Bill. The District Court Amendment Bill was reported with amendments. rating amendment bill.

This Bill was committed. Dr Pollen expressed the hope that the Government would abandon the Bill for this session, as it waß not so very urgently reauired just at present. * Mr Siirihski moved that the Chairman leave the chair, but subsequently withdrew the motion. Clause 2 was lost by 26 to 2. Clauses 3to 9 were lost on the voioes, and the remaining olauses were agreed to. The schedule, however, was struck out. The Bill was reported with amendments, and the third reading was made an order for next day.

RIVERS BOARDS AMENDMENT bill. Mr Stevens moved that tho amendments of the House of Representatives in this Bill bo agreed to. , , On the motion of Dr Pollen tho debate was adjourned to the following day. The Council adjourned at 5 o’clock to the following day.

HOUSE OF EEPEESEN’TATIYES

THURSDAY, AUGUST 9. The House met at 2.30. MIDLAND RAILWAY. The Premier announced that the Government had received official intimation that the Midland Railway contract had been signed. (Cheers.) NATIVE LAND BILL. This Bill was committed. On clause 1, short title, Mr Pratt said he wished to move au amendment confining tho operation of the Bill to tho North Island. The clause, however, was agreed to on the voices. Clause 3, Native Land Administration Act Repeal.—Mr Taiwhanga arose and proceeded to stonewall the Bill.—He commenced at 10 minutes to 3, and was still speaking when the 5.30 adjournment was taken. EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30. " NATIVE LAND BILL. Sir George Grey opposed the Bill, and strongly protested against persons getting Native land as they would under this Bill, which legalised their transactions. He had prepared certain new clauses, which ho should, at the proper time, submit. The Premier asked tho hon member to submit the clauses to tho Government, and Sir George Grey replied that he would not be questioned in that way. Mr Taiwhanga then said he should have to continue his opposition to tho Bill, and proceeded to speak at groxt length. TV hen ho had occupied nearly two hours, a point ot order was raised, upon which Mr Taipua spoke, remarking that Mr Taiwhanga was only following the example of other mem. bers, and hoping that the House would not he angry with him. Mr Taiwhanga then resumed, and said he would change the subject. He vigorously protested against the Bill, but said he would give in at once if the third clause was withdrawn. A little later on lie resumed speaking in Maori, and said, ** If there is a God in Heaven I hope ho will opposo this Bill, and soften the hearts of the members who are supporting it. There are 30,000 Natives in New Zealand who will be killed by this Bill, and I will talk against it as long as I hare breath in my body. I shall not cease talking; I shall go on for hours ; and if they do not approve my speaking in the Native language I will go back again and read that pamphlet (alludiDg to a pamphlet he had read for some hours). If that is not right I will go on talking in Maori.’’ Perhaps he would go on speaking all that day and the next and the next and all the week. At half-past 10 Mr Fish moved that the galleries be cleared excepting the ladies’ gallery. Ayes, 29 ; noes, 26. The galleries were then cleared.

The galleries were re-opened at half-past 1, when clause 3 was agreed to on the voioes. Mr Taiwhanga appeared to be thoroughly exhausted.

THE “STONEWALL.”

When the galleries were reopened at halfpast one last Friday morning, it was found that clause 3 of the Native Land Bill had been passed, and clause 4 was under consideration. The Chamber presented a curious and remarkable picture. Members all round lay stretched out in easy attitudes, wrapped in ruga, blankets, or overcoats, sleeping calmly, and occasionally snoring powerfully. Mr Hobbs had brought with him a full outfit, and with pillows and blankets all complete, lay like a warrior taking his rest at the rear of tho Government benches, whence ho frequently gave forth dismal groans,impelled thereto by the ever-recurring references to the Treaty of Waitangi. Mr Monk and Mr Marchant were coiled up oosily, wrapped in overcoats and in sleep ; and an occasional deep snore from tho seat usually occupied by Mr Hamlin drew attention to the fact that Mr Withy lay there with hia baok to the whole world, sleeping peacefully. Mr Taipua was in possession of the chair, and he went on speaking till nearly 3 o’clock, when Mr Taiwhanga resumed his few remarks upon the Bill and upon things in general. Though his voice, having been in use for eight hours since 3 o’clock the previous afternoon, was husky and not as loud as usual, Mr Taiwhanga was otherwise comparatively fresh. At 4 o’clock Mr Taylor, animated apparently by the same spirit as impelled tho hostile Tuscans to oheer, went right over to the enemy, and offered to relievo the member for the Northern Maori district. At first Mr Taiwhanga refused distrustfully, but when Mr Taylor repeated the request he gave in ; and tho member for Sydenham, rising with a flourish of trumpets (figura-

Itively, of course) announced that he was no land grabber. “Nobody said you were,” interjectod Mr -Kerr, whioh so nettled Mr Taylor that he was about to express his sentiments in a straightforward manner, when he was called upon to address the ohair—“which I do,” ho said gracefully,” with the greatest of pleasure.” Being interrupted by Mr Fulton ho said that that gentleman would himself be found doing a great deal of talking when a certain “sentimental measure ” came on ; and in reply to an interjection by Mr Kerr,he remarked that such was the girth of the hon member that he wouldn’t be surprised at anything he did. Ho complained that Mr Taiwhanga _had_ not had an opportunity of expressing his views on this important subject (which was rather good, considering that Mr Taiwhanga had spoken for about ten hours), As to them stonewalling, why, who was the greatest stonewaller in the House ? (Voices : Taylor.) No, Fish ! Mr Kerr : You tell tales out of sehool. Mr Taylor indignantly denied this, though he admittedhaving “heardsomething outside.the House.” MrFish: Was that in the laivn tennis shed ? Mr Taylor was proceeding to elaborately criticise Mr Fish when the Chairman (Major Steward) blandly suggested that the hon member would have to sit down if ho did not talk about something like the subject. While Mr Taylor was staggering beneath the shock of this peremptory call to order, Mr Kerr was heard offering to lay Mr John McKenzie a fivo pound note that somebody “ slept in the shed with a sheet of paper round him.” Mr Taylor proceeded somewhat incoherently, and being interrupted by members, who complained that his arguments were not- explicit, he said, with a wave of his hand and a smile, “These interjections emanate from those who want a little something pub in their upper works.” People were sent there, he continued, who could not speak plain English, and they wanted to put him down. But they couldn’t do it. Aha ! He’d speak for a month if he liked. “ I shall speak,” he said—“ I shall speak till I”—“bust!” suggested several members. Presently came there Mr Seddon, exceedingly fresh and with an aggressive air generally. He warmly applauded Mr Taylor with “well don i, Sydenham. Stir ’em up with a long pole.” Mr Taylor proceeded to “stir ’em up,” and kept things going merrily till after half-past 4, when he suhsided peacefully. He was followed by Mr R. Reeves, who rose with an air of much importance, and having informed the House upon his honour that he was au Irishman, he pro. ceeded to read the Treaty of Waitangi (at the mention of which Mr Hobbs groaned dismally) in Maori. This the Chairman ruled out of order, and Mr Reeves, then left the treaty, and narrated the experiences of himself and a kindred spirit in some foreign country he had visited, whore it would appear he enjoyed himseif hugely, tho u gh the unfortunate inhabitants were living in absolute slavery. Here Mr Taylor, who appeared to have forgotten that Mr Reeves was on his side, rose to a point of order, on the ground that he had been “ taken up repeatedly for this Btyle of argument.” “I regret to hear,” said Mr Reeves, “ that the hon member has been taken up repeatedly and then he went on with the treaty, explaining and commenting on every line how Victoria was Queen at the time, and what a good Queen she was ; how much good it would do her to visit ths Hot Springs,” and so on. Presently he assumed a serious mood, and declared to his God that the Natives suffered great injustice. He was frequently interrupted by Mr Taylor, who called attention to the Btute of the House when there was a quorum present, raised points of order when there none, and created a good deal of fun. Later on, Mr Taylor delivered himself of 'another speech in the course of which he said Mr Seddon was too obeso to associate with tho Maoris—words which he had to withdraw. At a quarter-past 8 Mr Taipua moved that the Chairman leave the chair for an hour, for breakfast. The Chairman (Mr Seymour) ruled that it was not necessary to put the question, and vacated the chair, amid cries of “ No !” stating that he would resume it at 9.15. Mr Cowan then took the chair, on the motion of the Colonial Secretary, and the Speaker’s ruling was obtained on the point whether it was necessary to put the question to a vote'-- He-ruled that it was, and on divhion the motion for adjournment was lost by 21 to 7. Mr Taiwhanga then added two hours and a half to his record, after which Mr Carroll explained his reasons for not opposing the Bill. At 1 o'clock Mr Taiwhanga moved that the House adjourn till 2, but this was lost, tho Premier stating that the Government intended to go right through without any adjournment. With speeches from Sir George Grey, Mr Taipua and Mr Taylor, tho discussion went on till a quarter-past 3. intervals for refreshment. At a quarter-past 3 Mr Taiwhanga again took up the running, good, apparently, for some hours. They had never been out of the House for ten minutes, except between half-past 5 and half-past 7 on Thursday, sinoe 3 o’clock on that day, and although.he had not had any sleep (the Government having kept a member talking to him and keeping him awake nearly all the morning) he was as vigilant as ever, wound up, apparently, to go for a very long time. At 4 o’clock, however, he began to get weak, and urged the Government to grant an adjournment for half an hour, so that he might get something to eat. He and Mr Taipua, he said, had been in the House all this time, afraid to go out;- and the Government refused to adjourn either for breakfast or anything else, thus refusing to them the privileges given when the Otago Central Railway Bill was being stonewalled. The news of these proceedings would go forth to many countries ; and “ it will be told in every land how two members of another race were kept here for. many hours, wanting food, ao that a Bill might be passed.” Mr R. Reeves (who had several times tried to get a short adjournment) again urged the Government to adjourn for half an hour, and never let it ho said that brute force had been used towiuit these two members. Mr Tanner raised a point of order whether these words should not be withdrawn. Mr Hutchison and Mr Levestam contended that the words should have been taken down if they ware objected to. . The Chairman (Mr Hamlin) ruled against Mr Tanner’s point of order. At the same

time he said there was nothing at all to prevent a member going out for refreshment; tho doors were not locked. Mr Turnbull sa d the Native Minister had that morning suggested to the Native members to go and get some refreshment, and he (Mr Turnbull) offered to speak while they did so. ~ Mr R. Reeves again urged an adjourn, ment and remarked that they had it on record how a member of tho House had pursued a twenty-two-stone Maori up a willow tree or a raspbery bush with a shot gun, an ink bottle, and a piece of parchment. (Laughter.) , , , , Mr Hutchison, as one who had not opposed the Bill at all, urged the Government to grant an adjournment. If no interval was allowed for refreshments, then it would be clear the Government were applying the iron hand, and members wonld feel constrained to discuss the measure for the purpose oi allowing the Native members time. Possibly an adjournment might tend to ameliorate the differences which existed. The Premier said that if he could possibly believe that, he would consent at Once, but he absolutely and distinctly denied Mr Hutchison’s premises. The Native members had had the same opportunity of getting refreshments as other members ; each of them could speak for two hours, and thus relieve the other. It was preposterous to talk about starving them. Mr Taiwhanga, he understood, had made a declaration that he would talk till he dropped, and then ho would go to his Maori friends and say, “Look what a fight I have made for you !” What could bo the object of the hon gentleman ? Did he think he could prevent the House passing what it considered necessary legislation ? He (the Premier) was willing to meet them in every way ; to receive and consider amendments, and, if possible, adopt them.; but he could not consent to allowing Maori members who were acting under the direction of a few chiefs havirig Belfish ends in view, talking the House down, nor could the House submit to it. He had heard that the two members had declared they, would speak tm the chiefs told them to stop, and thus the House was being overborne by a deputation outside, which, he believed, was a breach of P Mr Pratt then took up the debate and Mr Taiwhanga left the Chamber. (He was met outside by a number of Natives, who greeted him with acclamation.) Mr Taipua followed, remarking that Mr Tanner was evidently a lineal descendant of that Dr Tanner who fasted for forty days. Mr Reeves expressed gratification that at last he had an opportunity of speaking on this very important measure. (Laughter.) He went on speaking till 5.30, when the usual adjournment was taken, the Chairman stating, in answer to a point of order raised by Mr Perceval, that he should follow the usual practice with respect to this adjournment.

EVENING SITTING, THE END OF THE STONEWALL.

When the Committee resumed at 7.30 Mr Seddon urged that Major Kemp and other Native chiefs should be heard at the bar ot the House. Mr Taiwhanga also asked that the chiefs should be heard, and said if that were agreed to he would allow clause 4 to pass. Mr Taipua said they had had a long discussion on this subject, which he wished now to bring to an end; the Native members wished to leave the matter in the hands of the chiefs to be heard at the bar of the House. , , , , , , Mr Carroll expressed pleasure at what bad fallen from his colleagues, and complimented them on the vigour with which they naa carried on the discussion. The Premier understood that the Maori mombers gave [their words to cease stonewalling, and only go on with the Bill in an ordinarily reasonable manner if the two chiefs were heard at the bar.. Mr Taipua said he coincided with that. He could not say, of course, what amendments he would move, but they would discuss the Bill iu a reasonable manner. The Premier then put the same proposi--tion to Mr Taiwhanga, remarking that he (the Premier) had suggested on the previous evening that the chiels should be heard. Sir George Groy asked why this clause should be passed, seeing that there were amendments to be moved. ... The Premier thought it was in the interests of law and order to' dispose of this clause, but if any amendments were to be moved they could, of course, be considered. . Adiscusßion ensued, iu the course of which Mr Carroll charged Sir George Grey .with, insincerity, and asked what the hon gentleman did for the Natives when he was in office. This clause 4 gave powers to tbe Natives to sell their lands as they chose, and gave them the protection of a frauds commission. That clause actually appeared . in the Bill the Natives suggested, with this exception, no protection against fraud was provided in the Native Bill. , A/r Mr Seddon vigorously replied to Mr Carroll, and asked what that gentleman himself had done for his race. He brought in a string of bald platitudes last session and never went any further with them. Why, only that day, when two of the Native members were wanting food, what did Mr Carroll do ? Mr Fisher : Bosh ! bosh ! bosh ! Mr Guinness rose to object to the ejaculations of the Minister of Education. The Chairman thought that was a word that should not be used by hon members, especially by Ministers, who were supposed to lead the House. . Mr Hutchison, speaking later on, pointed out that this clause was the last the Government proposed to go on with, eo that the Bill was through committee if it was agreed to Surely that was like deciding the matter and trying it afterward by hearing the Native chiefs. Sir George Grey understood that it was the wish of the chiefs to be heard before this clause was disposed of. He resented Mr Carroll's references to him, and asserted that he was actuated solely by a desire to benefit the Natives. Mr Carroll said he had the highest reverence for Sir George Grey, but he repeated that there was a want of candour in what the hen gentleman had said. Replying to ‘ Mr Seddon he asked what that gentleman

did when ths West Coast Settlements Reserves Bill was before the House. Mr Seddon : I stood by the Natives,

Mr Carroll : You did not. - Mr Seddon said he was not to be talked to like that by any man on the globe, Ha explained how he had stood by the Natives. Mr Carrol! withdrew the remark. . After further discussion the motion that the Chairman leave the chair (moved at daylight that morning) was put and negatived on the voices. " 1 , Dr Fitchett moved that progress be reported (before the clause was disposed of). Loßt on the voices. , Mr Seddon moved an amendment to the clause, to the effect that no one person or corporation should purchase 10,000 acres of land of the value of £SOOO, but subsequently withdrew it. . Clause 4 was then put and agreed to by 55 to 10. , Progress was then reported on this and the other Native Bills, and leave obtained to sit again presently. • The Speaker presented a petition from 20 Native chiefs, praying tho House not to pass the Native Bills (excepting clauses 30 and 31 of the Native Land Court Bill! till after a Native meeting, to be held in March next, THE NATIVE CHIEFS BEFORE THE H.USE, The Premier moved that Mr Speaker invite the Native chiefs—Major Kemp and Piripi—to address the House at the bar on its resuming after supper. Carried. At 11 o’clock the two chiefs were intro* duced. Major Kemp (Te Keepa Kangihiwinui) said the Native members had been speaking on behalf of the Natives. He stated hia objection to Native land being thrown open to all to purchase, and of the Bills generally. He had told the Chief Judge of the Native Land Court that he thought these Bills were introduced in the interest of friends of the Government. He saw no benefit to the Native race in them. He had fought for th 4 Government in this Island (cheers), but his services were not remembered, and he saw evil in store for him. The Bill, instead of being called an amendment (which he took to mean putting things straight) should be called a Bill to put things crooked. He urged that the Bill should be held over, so that the Government might meet the Native chiefs at a meeting to be held at Waitangi in March. He objected strongly to a clause of the Bill which had been passed, and fcotne Bill altogether. (Cheers.) Hikawera Mahupuku (Oreytown) also advocated that time should be given to the Natives to consider the Bills. He hoped the Government would in this way do what the previous Government had done, and that the Natives would have full time given them to consider the Bills before they were passed. The chiefs hoped the House would remember that the two races were living together, and would endeavour to pass laws which wonld unite them. (Cheers.) The Speaker said he thought he could say on behalf of himself and his brother members that they had heard with very great pleasure the frank expression of opinion with which the chiefs had favoured them, and ho himself trusted that the straightforward and temperate language they had used would have a beneficial effect when the measures were under discussion, and that fair and full consideration would be given to all amendments that might be moved. (Cheers.) The chiefs then withdrew. ‘; TheNati veLand Bill was then recommitted, with the other Bills. The Minister moved to strike out clause 5, abolishing restrictions. On Mr Hutchison’s motion, however, the clause was retained by 28 to 23. Mr Hutchison then moved a proviso to the effect that Natives acting as trustees for others, and those for whom reserves were set apart, should be excepted from the clause. After some discussion, this amendment was withdrawn. Clauses 6 to 7 were also struck out. Mr Cadman moved a new clause to tho effect that the Crown might resume any auriferous lauds upon payment of fair com* pensation. Carried. A new clause, enabling leases to be renewed, was agreed to' on Mr Beetham’s motion. Progress was reported on the other Bills, and the House adjourned at 1.40 till 2.30 o» Monday.

MONDAY, AUGUST 13. The House met at 2.30. LAND BILL. The Legislative Council’s amendments to’ this Bill were agreed to, on the motion o£ the Minister of Lands. . MINING BILL. The Minister of- Mines moved that the amendments of the Legislative Council tothe Mining Act Amendment Bill be disagreed with, and that Mr Grimmoud. Mr Seddon, Mr R. Reeves, and the mover be a committee to draw up reasons for so doing. On the motion of Sir George Grey, the debate was adjourned till next day. TIMARU HARBOUR BILL. Amendments made by the Legislative Council to this Bill were agreed to. AUCKLAND HARBOUR IMPROVEMENT BILL. Amendments made by the Legislative Council to this Bill were agreed to, NATIVE LAND COURT BILL. This Bill was further considered in committee. At the request of the Native members, the Premier explained that the object of the opening clauses was to enable dealings to be carried on in respect of land held under the certificate of title and memorial of ownership, which, although a good holding title, did not allow a Crown title to be issued.—Mr Hutchison moved an amendment extending the operation of clause 2 (bow certain conveyances by Natives of land not held by Crown grant may be registered) to cases in which less than the full number of owners had not signed.—The Premier objected to thi3 amendment, as calculated to take power from tlie House and give too much to the Native Land Court Judges.— Sir George Grey suggested that the BilL should be postponed till next session, so that they might be fairly considered. Mr Hutchison asked whether the Government would accept an amendment confining the operation of the clause to future transactions, and allowing past areas to be dealt with specially.—The Premier accepted that.

—Mr Taiwhanga urged the Government t® postpone the Bill till after the Native mee%

ing a. Waitangi. The chiefs were opposed to this Bill, and if it was not postponed he would oppose it the same as he had the Native Land Bill. The Premier : Do I understand the non gentleman to say that he is opposing the Bill by the instructions of the Native chiefs ? Mr Taxwhanga, after several evasive answers, replied Yes. The Premier submitted that that was_ a breach of privilege threatening Parliament. , , , The Chairman said it was clearly tampering with the privileges of Parliament, and The must ask the hon member not to repeat those words. , , . , The Premier thought they ought to be reported to the House. Sir (George Grey contended that the question was an unfair one, and that any member was justified in saymg he should use every means of opposing a Bill which he considered would have an injurious effeofc. That was what Mr Taiwhanga had said in effect to him a few minutes before. The Premier had no doubt Mr Taiwhanga bad said a good many words to Sir George Grey. Mr Taiwhanga had promised him on bis word of honour that he would not offer any further obstruction, but now the hon member stood up and broke his plighted Word. He (the Premier) was ready to consider any amendment the Natives might suggest, and do all he could in their interest, but they suggested to amendment. He warned the hon member that he was seriously tampering with the privileges of Parliament when he said he acted under instructions from the Native chiefs—chiefs who were acting in their own interests and against the interests of the Native race. Mr Taiwhanga denied that he had broken bis word; what he promised was that he would not oppose the Native Land Bill. The Premier maintained that Mr Taiwhanga had clearly given the House to understand that the stonewalling was over. Mr Carroll said Mr Taiwhanga had promised that the stonewalling should cease if the chiefs were heard at the bar. What he <Mr Carroll) understood was that there should be no more stonewalling. He very mnoh regretted these tactics, and he called upon Mr Taiwhanga to state his objections to the clanse now under consideration. Mr Taiwhanga Baid this Bill was ten times worse than the Native Land Bill and that was why he opposed it, never having given a pledge not to do so. A discussion ensued, in the course of which the other Native members, Mr Pratt and Mr Taipua, expressed disapprobation with Mr Taiwhanga’s conduct. Mr Taiwhanga urged the Government to postpone the Bills till evening and confer with the chiefs in the meantime. Let the Government get the chiefs to tell him to withdraw his opposition. Mr Hutchison's amendment (that agreed to by the Premier) was eventually agreed to and the clause was passed. Clause 3 and title brought under Land Transfer Act.—Mr Taipna moved a proviso excepting from the Bill transactions entered into more than six years ago.-—The Premier said amendments had already been inserted providing that the Bill should not apply to any past transactions. The usual adjournment was taken at 5-30.

EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30. native land court btll.

Consideration of clause 3 of this Bill was resumed, and a discussion took place upon an amendment by the Premier to leave out the words “if in the opinion of the Governor the report of the Chief Judge warrants it ” (issue a certificate of title). —Mr Taiwhanga said it was no use his trying to oppose these Bills, for the Government were determined, apparently, to jam them down his throat. He expressed his thanks to the members who had aßsißted him, and astonishment that the other Native members had cone against their ewn tribe. It was not mete that he should remain m the Chamber when Bills were beiog passed to destroy the Native race, and so he would leave it. Before he went, however, he desired to thank the Chairman for the way in which he had conducted the proceedings. Mr Taiwhanga then left the Chamber.—The Premier did not press his amendment, which was negatived on the voices, and the clause was passed. Clause 7.—Crown claims in respect of money advanced may be satisfied. Mr Taipua moved to strike this out, and a long discussion ensued, and eventually the Premier offered to modify the clause so as to make it provide for the payment of one-half the amount of the claims.—This, however, did not meet with the approval of Mr Taipua and Mr Carroll, both of whom opposed the clause at great length, stating that the amount which the Natives would have to pay (from £BO,OOO to £IOO,OOO altogether; would be an enormous drain on them, that the money had in some case 3 been wrongly advanced, and that very frequently blank receipts had been signed by Natives. —The Premier then offered an amendment, that the Court, before paying such money, should be satisfied that it was a legal claim for money actually paid for land purchased.— Eventually, amendments were made. to the effect that dne notice must be given to the Natives, that one-half should be collected, and that the money claim should be proved to have been received on account of land. On the motion of Mr Samuel, in the interpretation clause the word “Native” was amended so as to include descendants of half-castes by Natives. In clause 14 a long discussion took place on an amendment moved by Mr Ballaoce, providing that no person or company should acquire as freehold more than 5000 acres of Native land. This was carried by 31 to 16. Mr Taipua moved an addition to the clause, that every Native, in alienating land, should retain 200 acres for himself. —Lost by 28 to 10. In clause 18, Mr Hiitohiaon moved an amendment to make the clause ap'ply to past transactions which are in regular form Carried by 24 to 21. (The clause legalises transactions under the Native Lana Administration Act in connection with land the title to which had not been issued. The Premier then moved to report progress on the Bill. This was carried, and progress was reported.

NATIVE LAND FRAUDS PREVENTION ACT AMENDMENT BILL. This Bill was committed.—Mr Seddon at once moved to report progress, which was lost on the voices.—The Bill was agreed to with amendments. MAORI REAL ESTATE MANAGEMENT BILL. This Bill was committed. . ' A discussion took place ns to the principle on which trustees for minors should beappointed, Mr Taipua and Mr Pratt advocating that only M aoris should be appointed, and that they should not have the power to sell the estate. Mr Pratt moved an amendment to prevent the trustees selling* which was lost by 20 to 13, On the motion of the Premier, the power of allowing trustees to lease, sell or convey, was given to the Judges of the Supreme Court. third readings. The Native Lands Frauds Prevention Act Amendment Bill, and Maori Heal Estate Management Bill were reported, and read a third time and passed. The House rose at 2.30.

TUESDAY, AUGUST 14. privilege.

Mr Larnach wished to draw the attention of the House to a most libellous and scurrilous article in the New Zealand Herald, a paper published at Auckland, referring to him. It would be in the recollection of members that he recently had suddenly to go to his home in the South in consequence of illness in his family, and this paper had taken up a circumstance which occurred while he was away in a most scurrilous way, referring to him as though his absence was on business, and that his statement about illness in his family was only an excuse to be away attending to his own affairs. He was detained in the South until a very Berious operation had been performed, and to his surprise when he returned ho found that this article had been published. He was leaving New Zealand shortly, and if this article was to be published in the papers of Australia, where lie intended to reside, it would do very great injury to his character. He had therefore brought the matter up in the House, and asked that the article of which he complained should be read by the Clerk. The Clerk then read the article, being frequently interrupted by members expressing disapproval of its statements. It was based on a question askod in the Hons® by Mr Hobbs as to whether Mr Larnaeh was to draw his honorarium whilo lie was in Australia. The article assumed that Mr Larnach had really gone away on business, and said Mr Hobbs deserved the thanks of New Zealand for bringing the matter forward. (Hisses.) . Mr Larnach remarked that during the 12 years he had been in the House he had never drawn his honorarium when he was away from the country, and he thought that where there was sickness in the family such a question should not have been raised. (Hear, hear.). Ho moved that a breach of the privileges of the House has been committed. Mr Hobbs said he had, when he found what was the cause of MrlLarnaoh’s absence, at once telegraphed expressing regret that he had brought the matter up, and received from Mr Larnach a telegram accepting his apology. Hon Members : Read the telegram. Mr Hobbs said it was not all gentlemanly, but he was sorry he had not got it with him.

Mr Larnach : I can give you a oopy. Mr Hobbs, continuing, said ho regretted very much that he bad mentioned Mr Larnach’s name. Y*’ith respeej to the question as a general one, he should make further inquiries, with a view to finding out whether other members bad done the same thing. The Premier said there was no doubt this was a Bhomeful and gross libel, and Mr Larnach had done right to bring it up. He should be very glad to assist the hon member in clearing his character if it was necessary, which he did not think it was ; the hon member was too well and widely known for any explanation to be necessary. lie thought Mr Hobbs was unfortunate in the way he brought the matter up, for it was not for a private member to take these steps. We should not be always fouling our own neat—(cheers) —and that was what he objected to in the press of the Colony : there seemed to be a sort of desire to hold up public men to reprobation. They could not so much complain of that sort of thing if the members of the House started it. Anything the hon member did be would be glad to assist him in, but what he should like to see was the House declare this a breach of privilege, and then Mr Larnach could bring an action against the paper. . Mr Downie censured Mr Hobbs for bringing the matter up originally, but he did not think it would be well for the House to go any farther in the matter. Mr VerralL suggested that Mr Hobbs should be given —(AVoice : Six months!)— No ; time to apologise. Mr Bruce expressed deep regret at the base and cruel charges which were here made against a gentleman so respected as Mr Larnach ; and he ventured to say that when the hon member went to his new home in Australia he would carry with him the respect and esteem of every member of the House. (Cheers.) Mr R. H. J. Reeves spoke in a similar strain, warmly eulogising Mr Larnach and censuring Mr Hobbs. He read the telegram in which Mr Larnach accepted Mr Hobbs’ apology, as follows:—“Sir, —Whether on public or other grounds, your reference to my short absence was unfriendly, unmanly,and contemptible, but as a fleoting shadow of delicaoy baa passed over you, I accept your apology.” Such was the magnanimous way in which Mr Larnach accepted the apology. (Laughter.) He suggested that the correspondent aud his satellites be brought before the bar of the House. Mr Levestam hoped the House would not allow the matter to drop, bub that an example would be made of the member for the Bay of Islands (Mr Hobbs). Mr Allen did not suppose there was a man in the House who had more generosity about him than Mr Larnach. He thought, on the other hand, that this affair would have a good effect in arresting what might be called a downward progress in the House, and would have the effoot of putting them on a higher and more gentlemanly feeling.

It was then resolved, that the article was & breach of the privileges of the House. Mr LarnaCH then moveJ that the proprietors of the paper, Messrs William Scott Wilson, Joseph Lisbon Wilson, and Alfred George Horton, be ordered bo attend at the bar of the House at 2.30 a.m. this day week. The Premier hoped the hon member would not press this motion. He pointed out that this mode of proceeding had been tried before, and had never had any good result. At the same time he should have to vote for the motion if it was pressed. Sir John Hall also hoped the motion would not be proceeded with. If he thought anything further was needed to clear the hon member's character be would not for a moment object to if. Mr Fulton thought that even if Mr Larnach’s character needed any vindication, that had been done by the motion affirming the article to be a broach of privilege. Dr Fitchett thought it necessary that the House should maintain its dignity in this matter. , ~ Mr Samuel Baid the proprietors would, if this motion was passed, appear at the bar and give an explanation, and the House would then consider what should done. There were various courses—a reprimand, committal to prison, aud a prosecution. It would be in the recollection of older members how all the cumbrous machinery available had heen brought to bear against an individual) with, the result that that indxvi* dual was returned as a member of the House. Ho thought that it would bo best to drop the matter now, for there was a danger of miking martyrs of a certain class of people if they went on with it. Mr Turnbull thought the person to blame was the member of the House Avho had given the information on which the article had been written. Captain Russell thought a man of Mr Larnaoh’s established position could defy such a libel as this. Moreover, he thought the punishment the member who had originated this libel had undergone that afternoon was very much more than they could inflict on the proprietors of the papers, Mr O’Callaghan pointed out that when Mr Hobbs prayed for the members of the House he added that he would not sit in the House if it were not the will of the Lord he should do so. (Laughter.) Mr Larnach said that after hearing what was said by the Premier he would leave himself entirely in the hands of the House, and would withdraw the motion if members wished it. . Mr Barron suggested the adjournment ot the debate till next day. Mr O’Conor expressed an opinion that the article in question was a degradation to the press of the Colony, but he thought that to bring the proprietors before the House would be to give them undue notoriety; that the better course would be to allow the authors to bo judged by the Press and the people. Mr Fitzherbert suggested that the paper should be given till that day .week to apologise, and that if no apology was made, the proprietors should then bo brought to the bar of the House. Mr Moss said that, knowing the proprietors of the paper, he was certain that no one would more regret this affair than they did. At the same time they must remember that Mr Hobbs was a gentleman surrounded by an odour of sanctity—os leader of religions movements, and that such a gentleman would not act the part of Paul Pry. (Laughter.) He was certain the people of Auckland would not endorse this attack.

Mr W. P. Reeves, as a newspaper man, knew the way these things got into newspapers, and was sure the proprietors would not endorse it. He doubted whether those gentlemen ever know anything about the article till it was in print. Knowing the proprietors of the Now Zealand Herald, he felt sure that they would at once apologise, and he suggested a motion to the effect that the article was untruthful and improper, and that the attention of the proprietors be called to the matter. Mr Lance advised Mr Larnach to withdraw the motion. Mr Hobbs denied that lie had supplied information to newspaper correspondents in Wellington. He denied that ho had said members were past praying for ; what he said at a meeting at Wellington some time ago was that members were “ not past praying for.” (Laughter.) . Mr Larnach said he would go further now, and ask leave to withdraw the motion. (Cheers.)— The motion was withdrawn. Mr Seddon thought the House should exDress its sympathy with Mr Larnach, and he moved, That this House expresses its sympathy with the hon member for the Peninsula. and regrets that such an untruthful, libellous article should have been published in the newspaper in question. This was secondod by Colonel Fraser, and carried. Mr Lawry said he had reason to know that the article was written without the knowledge of the proprietors, and the writer expressed regret next day for having penned it. (Mr J. B. Whyte : He wrote one quite as bad two days after.) The discussion then ceased. QUESTIONS. Ministers said, in answer to questions, that the sum of £IOO,OOO borrowed by the Greymouth Harbour Board was spent when the Board left office, with £27,000 additional.—lt was not intended to propose a commission of commercial men to report on the Civil Service.—lt was not true that officers bad been excepted from reductions on the Permanent Militia.—There was no truth in tho rumour that the General Manager of Railways had resigned. Thg-usual adjournment was taken at 5.30, EVENING SITTING. ELLESMERE LAKE LAND BILL.’ The Legislative Council’s amendments to this Bill were agreed to on the motion of the Minister of Lands. MAIL SERVICES. Consideration of tho motion proposed to be moved by the Premier respecting the mail services was postponed till next day, native land court bill. This Bill was further considered in committee. The Premier intimated that he should move to recommit the Bill for the purpose I of reconsidering olause 18. This clause had

been amended, on the motion of Mr Hutchison, in the direction of allowing past transactions in Native land at the time inalienable to be legalised and a certificate of title issued. This amendment, the Premier thought, had been to under a misapprehension.—Mr Hutchison questioned whether that was the case, and said there was a proviso clearly excluding from the clause any case in which the law had been contravened at the time when the transaction was entered into or completed. The discussion of proposed new clauses in tho Bill occupied a very long time. .A long discussion took place on clause 30, providing that- fthe discisions of the Committee on the rehearing in respect of lands known as Porongoliau, Mangamaire, and Waipiro should be deemed original discisions, and that the decision of the Chief Judge refusing a rehearing in the Ngarara case should be annulled, and such application be considered still uudealt with. —Mr Menteath spoke at length in connection with the Ngarara case, urging the claim of Wi Parata ; while Dr Newman expressed an opinion that it was a case of an able and clever Native getting the better of others who had equal rights.—Mr Hutchison moved to strike out the names of Porongabau, Mangamaire, and AVaipiro.—Lost by 35 to 31.-Sir John Hall moved to strike out the provision for annulling the decision in the Ngarara case.— Lost by 32 to 30. Sir John Hall then moved a proviso to the effect that tho costs of rehearing should be borne by the applicant. Lost by 35 to 25. Various other amendments of a minor character were proposed, but in most cases were negatived. The Bill was then re-committed for farther amendment in one of the earlier clauses, and afterward read a third time and passed. The House rose at 12.35 a.m.