PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Mail, Issue 854, 13 July 1888, Page 28

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

THURSDAY, JULY 5,

The Council met at 2.30. TIIE MELBOURNE CENTENNIAL EXHIBITION. On the motion of the Attorney-General it was decided to forward the thanks of tho Council to tho President of the Victorian Legislative Counoil for the invitation extended to hon members to attend the celebration bauquot to be given in Melbourne on the 4th August next, and to express regret that, tho New Zealand Parliament being in session, it was unlikely that many hon gentlemen would bo able to be present on the oooasion. THE dairy produce question. Mr Menzies asked Mr Stevens what steps the Government has taken during the recess, in conformity with the recommendation of the Dairy Produce Committee, agreed to by the Legislative Council in December last ? Mr Stevens replied that, in December last, the Government had written to the Agent-GeDeral upon the subject, but up to the present time no reply had been received. TRAMWAYS ACT AMENDMENT BILL. Mr Stevens moved the second reading of this Bill, whioh was introduced with a view to protect tramway companies against ordinary vohicles being driven over their rails. There was another clause, which prohibited passengers from smoking on trams. Sir George Whitmore, being himself a smoker, objected to the introduction of the smoking clause. Mr Waterhouse said that he, too, was a smoker, but that, he considered, was no reason why he should make himself a nuisance to his fellow tram passengers. As a matter of justice he intended ,to support the Bill. The seoond reading was agreed to on the voices, and the committal was fixed for the following day. WAIMEA river works bill. The adjourned debate on tho motion for the second reading of this Bill was resumed by the Attorney-General, who remarked that he would withdraw .any objection he might have entertained toward the Bill, except so far as related to Insufficient notice to introduce the Bill this session. The proper notice had been given last session, and, if this was deemed enough, he thought the Bill should be permitted to proceed. After further debate the motion for the second reading was agreed to, on a division, by 18 to 9. INVERCARGILL CORPORATION EMPOWERING BILL. Tho. motion for tho second reading was agreed to on the.voices. OPAWA EDUCATION RESERVES BILL. The second reading of this Bill was agreed to on the voices. Tho Council, at 4.30, adjourned to the following day.

FRIDAY, JULY 6. The Council met, at 2.30 p.m.

<■.: f , PETITIONS.. Mr Stevens presented a petition from Canterbury against Roman ‘ Catholic schools being aided by the State.' - _t 'V-- :: ' :r ; Dr Menzies presented a petition-in favop of the Bible in State schools. The same hop member presented a' petition against the operations of the Contagious Diseases Act. NOTICE OP. QUESTION. ’ • . Mr MantelL gave notice to ask on Tuesday next: if the Government intend to briug in a' Bill to , repeal the Members*of-Parlia-ment Privileges/and Honorarium Act, ISS7 and, if so, when ? withdrawal of motion. Sir G. S. Whitmore withdrow the following motion, of which he had given notice That his Excellency the Governor be requested to withdraw the letter from Chief Judge Macdonald laid on the table yesterday. CHRISTCHURCH RIFLE RANGE BILL. Mr Stevens moved the second reading of this Bill, which was agreed to on the voices. FENCING ACT AMENDMENT BILL. Mr Waterhouse moved tho second reading of this Bill, which was agreed to without debate. TRAMWAYS ACT AMENDMENT BILL. This Bill was committed, reported without amendments, road a third time, and passed. INVERCARGILL CORPORATION EMPOWERING BILL. Mr Waterhouse, on the motion for going into committee, moved that it bo committed that day six months. Mr Reynolds moved that the debate be adjourned. This amendment was lost, as also'was that of Mr Waterhouse, the latter on division by 15 to 13. The Bill being committed, clause 1 was agreed to. Clauses 2to 0 were! postponed. Clause 7 was amended and agreed to. Progress was reported, leave being given to sit again. customs bill. This Bill was received by message, from the other branch of the Legislature and read a first time, the second reading being fixed for Tuesday next. OPAWA EDUCATION RESERVES’*B rLL. This Bill was committed. Progress was reported, and leave given to sit again. The Counoil, at 4.15 p.m,, adjourned to Tuesday next. TUESDAY, JULY 10. Tho Council met at 2.30. petition. The Aitorney-Generat, presented a petition from Auckland against the operation of the Contagious Diseases Act. QUESTIONS. Major Wahawaha asked whether tho Government will consider the advisableness of extending the telephone communication from Tologa Bay to Te Awanui (East Cape'. Mr Stevens, in reply, said that the Government did noc ic:>-n.t to extend the line. It had boon asc rl. dm-d that tho coat of the extension would bo £(>000, whilst tho annual revenue would be only £l5O per annum.

l LAND 'TRANSFER DEPARTMENT. Mr Wilson moved, That, in tho opinion , of this Council, tho application of the Assur- ' auce Fund of the Land Transfer Department, as proposed in the Financial Statement of the Colonial Treasurer, would constitute a breach of faith to such of the public as have transactions with the said Laud Transfer Department, and would form a precedent fraught with danger iu the administration of the trust funds of the Colony. The Attorney-General moved the adjournment of the debate to Thursday next. Agreed to. first readings. The Wellington Asylum, Home, Orphan, age and Hospital Reserves Bill (Mr G. R. Johnson), and the Naval and Military Settlers’ Bill were each read a first time. CHINESE IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT BILL. The House of Representatives transmitted a messago instructing-! that tho House had appointed managers to confer with managora of the Legislative Council on the amendments insisted upon by the Council. The following hon members woreelected managers to confer with the managers of the House of Representatives on the Bill : —Messrs Waterhouso, Richmond, Shrimski, Holmes, and Dr Pollen. CUSTOMS DUTIES AND EXCISE BILL. Mr Stevens moved tho second reading of this Bill, and in doing so remarked that tho determination of the Government to increase the taxation was no doubt exceedingly distasteful, but it was the outcome of the Government’s determination to endeavor to make the expenditure equal the revenue. Doubtless tho Government might have adopted other and alternative means to swell the revenue, but these alternative measures were objectionable, inasmuch as possibly the Government might rpquire to hold these in reserve for future ocoasions, in order that they might levy additional taxation. The Government did not think that the Bill was at all indicative of a Protective policy any more than it was a Freetrado policy. The tariff did not include duty on coal or machinery, and therefore it could not be regarded as a Protective policy. He believed himself that in the present state of the Colony there was no other way out of the difficulty in which the finances of the country were at present than that propounded by the Government in the Bill before the Council.

Sir G. S. Whitmore regarded the tariff aB a most objectionable one, and as being one which sought to levy taxation in as equally obnoxious a manner as the Protective duty was levied in that ultra-Proteetionist colony Victoria, The Government had equally misled the working men, the capitalists, and the trading classes by their tariff. The working men were deceived by promises of increased wages under‘the tariff, as equally were the capitalists and the traders, who were told that they would have an outlet for their money, accompanied by a revival in trade. These promises were all fallacious. The hon member asserted that the defences of the Colony had been reduced to a dangerous condition by the so-called system of retrenchment, and in addition it bad had the effect of setting the country against the town people. Ho (Sir G. S. Whitmore) considered that it would have been far better had the Government, instead of taxing the people through the Customhouse, imposed an income-tax. He predicted that before very long those people who were at present most enthusiastic in favoring tho tariff as set forth in the Bill before the Council would bitterly repent the part they had taken in carrying a Bill which to all intents and purposos was a Protective measure.

Dr Pollen, in speaking to the motion, remarked that the country .had been told that the tariff as disclosed in the Customs Bill was not a Protective one, but all he could say was that if the tariff was not) a Protective one, it resembled it remarkably. The Government might easily have obtained all the money they requited without having to resort to the obnoxious tariff they had propounded. They never would have got into the difficulties they had if years ago they had ignored the foolish cry of a free breakfast table. The cry of the unemployed was an exaggerated one, though he did not for a single instant desire to be understood that there was not great distress amongst the working-class. What he meant to say was that thero wero persons who had tasted the milk of the State cow, who now felt disinclined to let the teat drop from between their lips. It was, he thought, a melancholy sight to see the Colony, whose population only equalled a thirdrate city of England, isolated from ,tlie outside world by such a tariff. With regard to Protectionist Victoria ho firmly believed that before very long that Colony would present itself as a shocking example to the rest of the world. The hon member concluded by remarking that he intended dividing the Council on the motion for the second reading of the Bill. Mr Shrimski expressed his intention of supporting the motion for the second reading of the Bill. Mr Miller moved the adjournment of the dohate till tho following day. The motion, after discussion, was agroed to on a division. Ayes, 14 ; uoo3, 10. . FENCING ACT AMENDMENT BILL. This Bill was committed, and reported without amendment, the third reading being mado an order for the following day.' Tho Council, at 5 o'clock, adjourned to the following day.

HOUSE OP EE PRESENT ATI VES.

THURSDAY, JULY 5. The House met at 2,30. MELBOURNE EXHIBITION.

The Premier moved a resolution instructing the Speaker to convey to the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly of Victoria the appreciation and acceptance of the New Zealand Parliament for the invitation to attend the opening ceremony of the Melbourne Exhibition on the Ist August ; and regreting that as the New Zealaud Parliament would be in session members would be prevented from attending.

This was carried without discussion. CUSTOMS AND EXCISE DUTIES BILL,

Mr Hutchison, resuming the debate on the third reading of this Bill, stated that he waa not one of those Protectionists who had

given in their allegiance to tho Government. He made merry at Captain Russell’s statements as to the impressions of people at Home regarding New Zealand ; and, referring to the Premier’s statement that “ he never had a party,” pointed out that last session the hon gentleman said “he was proud of his party,” and that party was certainly composed of gentlemen holding Freetrade views. He criticised tho personnel of the Government, and twitted the Minister of Education with having issued a paper on education which abounded in such blemishes, solecisms, and atrocities against the English language as should make the House feel ashamed of it as an authoritative statement from the Government on Education.

Mr Izard opposed the third reading of the Bill, though he know it was idle to do so. He was certain the tariff would not return tho revenue expected, and that the effect of it would be to impose on the people a largo amount of taxation that was not necessary. Mr Fish took exception to the derogatory remarks made by some members about colonial manufactures, and stated that the tariff would do good to the Community as a whole. He criticised previous speeches and ridiculed the idea of Captaiu Russell and the other Freetraders posing as friends of the working classes. In conclusion, Mr Fish announced that he should support the Government for tho rest of the session at all events, since they had given effect to the principle of Protection.

Mr Taylor, after charging the retrenchment party with trying to reduce the wages of the poorer classes, intimated that he supported the Bill as the best that could bo got, Mr R. Thompson said that he did not like tho Bill, though he supported it. He did not believe that the Government could be charged with inconsistency, since they had to raise revemle.

Mr Tanner spoke at some length against the Bill, and regretted that wo in this country had not gained experience from older conntriea and legislatures. Mr W. P. Reeyes expressed regret that any member should be so rash and hasty as to ( give himself away for the rest of the session as Mr Fish had done. For his part he was not goiDg to allow his head to be turned. While he respected the Premier, and believed the hon gentlemen held theoretical opinions which were the same as his, it was another thing altogether to identify one’s self with the party which was behind the Premier. Therefore he hoped that the Protectionists would look well into the future before they obliterated the old Liboral party. He referred to Mr Fergus’ speech as a most exasperating one, and ascribed its tone'to the unpleasant position iu which the hon gentleman, as a Freetrader, found himself. The hon gentleman denied that it was a Protectionist tariff, bat if that were so the Government would go out of office that night. It was because they did not believe what the hon members said that they supported him.. (Laughter.) Mr Reeves went on to argue that it was a Protectionist tariff of a far more drastic character than those on his side of the House would have dared to bring down. He censured those avowed Freetraders who had supported the Budget, such as Mr Tanner; and said he would rather fight a duel with the champion pistol shot than go back, as those gentlemen would have to, and explain to his constituents. Mr Tanner : Very well; I’ll come out with you. (Laughter.) Mr Reeves (pointing to Mr Perceval, who sat beside him) : The hon gentleman sees my friend. (Laughter,) He went on to say that a band of politici ans had never occupied a lower position in the Colony than those gentlemen did. He asserted that tho Premier oarne out of the affair with clean hands. He urged Mr Beetham not to dole out any more of those doleful jeremiads about the condition of the Colony which he and other members who acted with him were so fond of making—members felt a legitimate irritation when blue ruin speeches were so often made. Dealing with Captain Russell's speech, Mr Reeves deprecated that gentleman’s prophesies of the unfortunate resultß of the tariff. The usual adjournment was taken at 5 30. EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30. Dr Newman, continuing the debate, said he thought the House was proceeding in a most unbusinesslike way in passing a Bill of this kind, whioh sought to impose £200,000 of taxation on the people of the Colony. The Financial Statement was to his mind so devoid of all financial skill that he thought they might adopt the same course they were about to adopt with respect to the railways, by the importation of a brand new railway commissioner to manage them ; they might also import a now financial commissioner to manage the finances of the Colony. He considered the Budget an atrocious one, though it appeared to have a soothing effect upon some people. He complained of the “ chameleon, like action ” of the Premier, who had first said it was a °Freetrade tariff and then afterward declared that be was doing it for Protection purposes. He taunted the Premier with having no other policy than taxation and borrowing, and with having increased taxation after objecting to any increase. He warned tho House that tho worst had yet to come, and that there would be a big deficit at the end of the year. Mr Pyke said if the Protectionists were satisfied with this tariff, it took very little to satisfy them ; and as to the Freetraders who posed in the House as political martyrs to principle, why they did not know what they were talking about—they had not studied the tariff. He maintained that it was a revenue tariff. (Oh !) As to Dr Newman’s objection to the tea duty, he advised that hon gentleman to read the Wellington newspapers, where he' would see that one of the largest tea firms in the Colony announced that the duty would not have the effect of increasing their prices. He should support the Government, though there were some things in the tariff he objected to, because he thought it wa3 the best Government they could get. Mr Marchant replied to statements made by Dr Newman as to the Taranaki district swallowing a large part of the subsidies. Mr Scobik Mackenzie pointed out that Mr Pyke was one of the strongest'denouncers of a tariff not so hard as this one, which was introduced not long ago. The hon gen-

tleman took up the position of an advanced Freetrader on that occasion. (Mr Pyke explained that that tariff was a Protectionist tariff and this one was not.) Mr Mackenzie said there was nothing, of course, to prevent Mr Pyke saying that. He went on to express regret that the Protectionists had won the fight, though he admitted the fairness with which it had been fought. He argued that it was a Protection tariff. He twitted Mr Fergus and Mr Fisher with inconsistency, and quoted from election speeches to show that Mr Fergus had declared that anything over 15 per cent would be “absolute prohibition.” Mr Fishes* had said that he had been converted from Freetrade by reading a book of Horace Greeley’s. (Mr Fisher emphatically denied! this.) Mr Mackenzie proceeded to discusa at length tho policy of the Premier and that gentleman’s connection with tb.e Government. Ho asserted that the Government policy of last session was one of “ stunted Vogelism.” Later on Mr Mackenzie made merry at the expense of Mr W. P. Reeves, pointing out how that gentleman had gone over to tho Premier and subsequently changed front again. Mr Peacock intimated that he could not support the third reading, but he would not oppose it. Mr Grimmond briefly protested against the tariff. I Mr Buchanan quoted from hi 3 election speeches to show that his action had been perfectly consistent. He resented the term “ howling Freetraders,” applied by Mr Fergus to the Freetrade party, and said ho did not think any party in the House should be so referred to. He spike at some length against the tariff, maintaining that it would have a disastrous effect on the pastoral and agricultural industries. Mr Moat intimated that he should support the Bill, because he saw no other means of raising tho revenue, though he waa more in accord with the Freetraders. Mr Menteath likened the Minister of Education to a class of people commonly known as_ <£ chuekers-out ” —the hon gentleman occupying a position of that kind on the Ministerial Benches. His business was to run out of political existence any person who disagreed with him. But lately it appeared that the hon gentleman had not been performing his duties well, for they found the Premier undertaking, them. Referring to the Premier, Mr Menteath" asked how 1 many would have supported the hon gentleman when he first went into office if he had declared in favor of “ Protection ? About seven or eight. A Protection Government would have gone in, and it it had brought down this tariff Sir Harry would have been the first to oppose it, as he did that of the Stout-Vogel Government giving his supporters to understand that he opposed the tariff on Freetrade grounds. He quoted from reports of Mr Fisher's speech in Wellington, wherein that gentleman said he had changed his opinion after reading a book by Horace Greely, and suggested that if that report was not correct the Minister should rise and say so. He complained that this Colony suffered from government —government that some people called mis-government ; and, after speaking at some length, concluded by saying that he should always record his vote and raise his voice against Protection, no matter what administration was put out of office, (Cheers.) Mr Moss urged the Freetraders not to pledge themselves, for. Freetrade had gone. (Mr Buchanan: No.) Yea; it went when Mr Buchanan and others were supporting Governments that heaped millions upon millions of debt on the people. He spoke at length on the evils which had followed borrowing, and expressed regret that it was *" apparently impossible to persuade the House to abandon that policy. The Premier, replying, criticised the speeches of those gentlemen who, he said, called themselves Freetraders, though he maintained that they were not really Freetraders. What ho had done was to carry out the principle be had set up in 1579 that a large portion of the revenue must be derived through the Customs, and as that necessitated interfering to some extent with trade, he thought it right to see that in imposing these duties local industries were not injured. With reference to the conversation with Mr Bruce, he told that gentleman what he told many others—that he would act on such a principle as that he had mentioned, but would in no case be a party to a purely Protection tariff. He commented cn the fanaticism of the Freetraders, which was, ho said, far greater than rpligious fanaticism. He could not understand how able men could take no cognisance of what was going on in the world, preferring a book theory. Replying to Mr Macarthur, he expressed the opinion that the hon gentleman, like himself, was a little out of sorts lately, and probably a touch of gout was the cause of it. It was remarkable, however, that the-, hon gentleman did not find out the weakness in his (the Premier’s) finance until after this,’ tariff was brought down. Coming to Cap tail Russell, he congratulated .that gentleman on his speech, though the hon member, like others, was the least bit touchy. After pointing out mistakes in the statistics quoted by Captain Russell, tho Premier went on to ash what were tho industries of whioh the liun member spoke as not suitable to New Zealand ? What industry was it not suitable for? As to the argument that manufactures had already increased at a very great rate, that increase occurred as soon as tho 15 per cent tariff was made law. Now it was only proposed to go 5 per cent further. Then tho hon gentleman said tho taxation was not necessary. Well, he would ask the House whether any adequate scheme had been proposed in place of taxation. Some suggested one thing and some another, but was there anything like a scheme ? Not the least attempt had been made at anything practical. He was not going to say a word in reply to Mr Macken. and Mr Menteath. He would let his his and their speeches stand side by side, thus refraining from' taking advatrr—tage of the right of reply which he had, and under which it Uad been said he was sheltering himself. He had been very much amused with Dr Newman’s speech, for the hon. gentleman did not believe in retrenchment, and every Government that had. been in office had innumerable applications from him for expenditure. As the hon. gentleman did not believe in retrenchment and borrow-

ing, how else wero they to got money without taxation ? He would leave the hon. member 'there. He wished the House to understand the position of the Government. Last year they were face to face with a very large deficit, and had to meet a deficit of £528,000 for the two years. Ihe gentlemen who had complained about this heavy taxation, had- they given oredit to the Government for the fact that £ISO,OOO of it was to relieve loan ? It was the pro* pertied classes who would pay this taxation, not the working-classes. But what were the Government to do, having this deficit to face? It was suggested that propertytax exemptions should be reduced, but no one advocated an increase of the tax. Ho thought the exemptions should only be reduced in dire necessity. He thanked Mr Fish for his voluntary statement, but the position of Mr Reeves was such as to demand notice. The hon gentleman said that if he was to continue to support tho Government well if he (the Premier) could fill up the rest of the sentence, he would say that the hon member must be represented on tho Treasury benches. He wished the hon gentleman to understand that he would not separate himself from his colleagues—the members of the Government were one; they had brought down this tariff and carried it through, and they stood and fell by it. Tho hands of the Go* vernment were set free now the tariff was done with ; the House had the right of puting another Government on the benches, and ‘ it behoved them to at once select a Governnieiit that would command a majority of tho House. And if the present Ministry was not such a Government, then he asked the House to at once proceed to select a strong and stable Government. (Cheers.) Mr Waixek took exception to the Premier’s interpretation of Mr W. P. Reeves’ remark (Mr Reeves being absent). The Premier said he should be very sorry, indeed, to give a wrong interpretation to the hon member’s speech. The question was then put that the Rill be read a third tinm, the result being Ayes, 45 ; noes, 22 ; majority 23. The Premier moved that the Bill do pass. Mr Cadman took tho opportunity of correcting a mistake made in Hansard in a report of his speech on the salt duty. Mr Barron suggested that proofs shoild be sent to members irrespective of tho length of the speeches. The Speaker said members were certainly entitled to proofs of all their remarks. Mr Seddon briefly explained his action in connection with the tariff, Mr Fish, who followed, denounced Mr Seddon for inconsistency. The Bill was then read a third time and passed* \ HANSARD. The Premier, in moving the adjournment of the House, said it was generally felt that Hansard reports were not accurate this session. He had only corrected one of his speeches, but some of the others he would not have known for his own. He thought it would be better, perhaps, to abolish Hansard. (Hear, hear.) The next best thing would be to prevent members correcting their speeches, and the result would be that there would soon bo a desire to abolish it. Ho wished it to be understood that he did not hold himself responsible for anything in Hansard. Several other members having spoken, the Minister of Education said the salary was not high enough ; the 'best men had been drawn away by larger salaries. , The House adjourned at 1.35 a.m.

FRIDAY, J TIL'S 6. The House met at 2.30. THE ASHLEY SEAT. On the motion of tho Premier, the Speaker was authorised to give instructions for a new writ for-the Ashley seat. POINT RESOLUTION PURCHASES. The Premier moved, That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire what were the termß upon which certain property at Point Resolution was purchased by the Government from*lr S. S. Kissling and others, and whether such terms were reasonable and were given effect to with fairness to eaoh of the vendors;,and also whether, if such terms were unreasonable or unfair, what steps, if any, can be taken to remedy the same. Such Committee to report within ten days; four to form a quorum. The Committee to consist of Mr Ballance, Mr Barron, Mr Fulton, Sir George Grey, Mr Hislop, Mr Moss, Mr W. P. Reeves, and Mr W. P. Stewart. Mr Ross asked whether tho Premier would include the purchase of the torpedo site atDevonport. The Premier snid he could not. In regard to Point Resolution, the question was whether a third person liad made Undue profit at the expense of tho public. QUESTIONS. Ministers said, in answer to questions— A report would shortly be received froir. the Agent-General of his visit to Paris last year, regarding postal matters and frozen The representation of New Zealand at the Paris Exhibition was now under con. sideration. —The Te Anau was detained at the Bluff by bad weather some time after Mr Oliver arrived there.- —The cost of the special train from Dunedin to the Bluff was £2o. Volunteer uniform was excluded from the free list (in the tariff) after consideration as good cloth was made in the Colo'ny. The Government could not see their way to again reducing railway rates on milk for cheese factories.—Steps had been taken to put the defences in the principal towns in a state of. efficiency, both as rtoards ammunition and men. It was not proposed at present to make any change in arms until the English Government had decided what arm should bo used, xho Volunteers of the Colony could be largely mobilised in five or six hours.—The Governor had requested the Government to state that in coming to any decision on the Milject of the Governors salary and allowances, his Excellency wished the Government to take any action they thought fit, but without reference to him. If the present Governor were reappointed it would be at the reduced salary, but the 'House would be apprised before any action was taken. It was proposed to take ''Wednesdays for Government business after this we ek.—The Premier was in favor of extending the electoral franchise to women! but the

other members of the Cabinet woro against it. lie would support any private Bill brought in for this purpose.—Mr Parks report on the North-East Wairarapa district would appear with other papers of the Geological Department. It was not intended to lay a cable between Wanganui and Nelson. —It was believed the report of tho Mokau Commission would be ready for presentation this session.—No reduction in the pay of day laborers had been authorised except in tho case of the gardeners engaged at the Ministerial residences. DEFENCES. The adjournment of the House was moved by Mr Hutchison in consequence of tho reply made by the Minister of Defence to a question from Mr Valentine on defences. Mr Hutchison warmly censured the Government for not keeping the forces in a state of efficiency as recommended by Major General Scliaw, and said that, except in W ellington, where the Naval Yolunteers showed great enthusiasm, there was no place where there was an efficient auxiliary to the permanent forces. He also censured them for not keeping up a hotter system of inspection, and said that although Captain Hume wa3 no doubt a very able man, ho could not give proper attention to his duties as Inspector of Prisons and also keep up an efficient inspection of Volunteers. He remarked that the Minister, Mr Fergus, had inspected some companies, but his remarks thereon were the same whether he inspected Volunteers or “ the picturesque inequalities of a string of policemen.” Among the speakers who followed was Mr Bruce, who protested against this lavish defence expenditure, and remarked sarcastically that people seemed to think tho eyes of every despot in Europe were cast hungrily on New Zealand. Mr Walker held it to be the duty of the State to see that its sons were always ready to defend the soil ; they required more training than in the days when Mr Bruce’s famed ancestor led his half-naked Scots to victory. Mr Taylor broke a lance iD defence of his own military experiences (having been referred to by Mr Bruce as one who had smelt powder), and expressed his disgust at the “figure-head” Volunteer business. Mr Beetham expressed regret that the capitation had been reduced. The Minister asserted that the defences in the principal ports could be efficiently manned at an hour’s notice, and that excellent as tho Wellington Naval Brigade was, there were plenty of other corps equally as good. He joked Mr Hutchison on his military experience, and remarked that when the Volunteers went to Parihaka that gentleman was sick, apparently, for he did not go with his company. (Laughter.) He denied that the Volunteers were less earnest because their capitation was reduced. To his mind the weakness was the want of good Volunteers, and he thought they would have a more efficient system if they had more large and fower small corps. He regretted extremely that hehadhad to reduce the capitation, butif the revenue proved elastic, it would bo his duty and pleasure to reinstate tho capitation.

PERSONAL EXPLANATION. Mr W. P. Reeves stated that the Premier had put an entirely wrong construction on certain remarks of his whon replying on the Customs Duties Bill. The Premier frankly accepted the explanation, and took the opportunity of denying, so far as he was concerned, the statements that had been made to the effect that Mr Reeves had been intriguing for office.

PUBLIC WORKS STATEMENT. The Minister for Public Works, in answer to Mr *l. McKenzie, said he would probably deliver the Public Works Statement on Tuesday week.

bills introduced. The following Bills were introduced and read a first time :—Minister of Lands—The Ellesmere Lake Lands Bill; Mr E. Richardson—The Kaiapoi Drillshed Bill (No. 2); The Premier—The Deceased Persons Estates Duties Amendment Bill and the Stamp Act Amendment Bill ; Colonial Secretary—The Nelson Reserves Bill. The usual adjournment was taken at 5.30.

EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7-30. CHINESE IMMIGRANTS BILL. The Premier moved that the Mouse insist on disagreeing with the amendments made by the Legislative Council in this Bill. Sir George Grey suggested that it would be better to drop the Bill, which he considered would not meet the object sought. If the Government were not prepared to bring in a now Bill, and the Council would not allow this to be amended so as to make it’ a useful measure, then it would be for the people to decide what should be done with a recalcitrant Council. He pointed out that an influx of Chinese would lead to great reductions ill wages, and to reduce wages and increase the cost of necessaries of life were two acts that should not be committed together. . Dr Hodgkinron said that course would involve a great waste of time. Mr Ballance said there was nothing to bs loot by having a free conference on tho subject. If what the House desired was not obtained the Bill should be dropped. He took exception to the reasons assigned by the Legislative Council for _ insisting on its amendments, as of an insulting nature. The Premier entirely disagreed with Sir George Grey, and considered it would be absurd to think the Council would pass a more stringent Bill than this. He regretted with Mr Ballance that the Legislative Council’s reasons had been put in such a form, but he hoped there would be no friction between the Chambers, and be had hopes of being able to convince the Council that its amendments should not be insisted on. Ho had reason to believe that this Bill would be assented to at once, and a great stvn in advance would thus have been taken.

The motion was agreed to. The Premier moved that a message bo sent to the Legislative Council inviting a free conference. _ On division (called by Sir George Grey) this was carried by 62 to S. The Premier moved that the managers for the conference be Mr Ballance, Mr Guinness, Mr Seddon, Me Hislop, and the mover. MINING ACT AMENDMENT BILL. This Bill was read a second time on the motion of the Minister of Mines. DISTRICT RAILWAYS PVRCHASING ACT

AMENDMENT BILL. Mr Valentine, resuming tho adjourned debate on this Bill, opposed tho measure, and intimated that he should move in committee to exempt people who paid rates under £5. , Mr E. Richardson thought a clause should be inserted giving assistance to people who had bought land not knowing that they would be subject to rates. After further discussion the motion was carried. NAVAL AND MILTTARYSETTLERS AND VOLUNTEERS LAND BILL. This Bill was committed. In committee the Bill was discussed at considerable length, and Sir George Grey moved a new clause allowing the Government to deal with cases of extreme hardship. As it was pointed out that this would lead to thousands of claims, many of them frivolouß ones, being opened up, Sir George withdrew the amendment. On the motion of Major Jackßon, the Commission wero authorised to report on men who served under Colonel Nixon. Tho Bill was reported with amendments, and read a third time and passed. Colonel Fraser, speakiug on the motion that the Bill pass, thanked the Government for this liberal measure on behalf of the old Volunteers and soldiers in his district. The Minister of Defence said the greatest thanks were due to the previous Minister of Defence. The House then (10.35) rose. TUESDAY, JULY 10. The House met at 2.30. In the absence of the Speaker Mr Hamlin took the chair.' QUESTIONS. In answer to questions, Ministers said it was proposed to charge local bodies for audit, and to introduce a Bill providing for systematic audit of the accounts of local bodies.—Tho Agnews'were not entitlod to anything at all from the Government. —No further intimation had been received from the Midland Railway Company as to signing the contract. If nothing was heard when the cable was re opened tho Government would consider the desirableness of stating a time in which the contract must be signed. —Tho question of establishing a distinct tribunal to decide appeals from the Native Land Court was under consideration. Dr Newman askod the Minister for Public Works, (1) Whether the new survey for the North Island Railway now being made from Stratford, Inglewood, and Mimi to Taumaranui, which the Minister for Public Works, in his speech to the Aucklaiid Chamber of Commerce on the 7th April, said would cost £IO,OOO, can be completed for that sum ? (2) Oat of what fund will the £IO,OOO be paid ? (3) Under what authority tho expenditure has been incurred, Parliament having decided upon the adoption of the central route ? The Minister replied categorically as follows (1) That the total cost would not exceed £8,600 ; (2) the amount was taken out of the allocation for new lines in the Loan Act; (3) underj the authority given for the survey of new linos. • Dr Newman moved the adjournment of the Houso in order to point out that the vote referred to had been exoeeded. Tho Premier urged the bon member to take a more fitting opportunity later on, and Dr Newman agreed to do this.. The Premier said, in answer to Mr O’Callaghan, that the Rating Bill would be introduced shortly. NEW BILL.H The Foreign Parcels Post Bill (the Premier) was introduced and read a first time. GOVERNMENT BUSINESS ON WEDNESDAYS. The Premier moved chat, for the remainder ot the session, Government business take precedence on Wednesdays. Mr Guinness suggested sitting on Mondays for the rest of the session. The Premier, after further discussion, said he did not think the time had yet come for regular Monday sittings, but he would ask the House to sit on Monday night next for local Bills. On division, the motion was carried by 50 to 14. SHEEP COMMITTEE. The Minister of Lands moved that a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the working of the Sheep Department, with power to call for persons and papers, and to sit with any similar committee that may bo appointed by the Legislative Council ; there to be a quorum ; to report in a fortnight. Such committee to consist of Mr Buchanan, Mr Kerr, Mr Lance, Mr J. McKenzie, Captain Russell, Mr O’Callaghan, Mr Valentine, Mr Walker, and the mover. Carried. The Minister gave notice to move to add the name of Mr Dodson to the Committee. . TRAMWAYS ACT AMENDMENT BILL.

The Premier, in moving the second reading of this Bill, said the object was to protect the private property'of Tramway Companies. At present there was no power of proventing other people using the tramway lines, and vehicles were being devised by other persons to run on the rails. Seeing that tramway companies paid for concessions and laid down the rails, it was only fair, he thought, to give them some protection. Mr E. Richardson thought the provisions would be good if the Bill applied only to Wellington, but he doubted whether it would apply fairly to other parts of New Zealand. Ho pointed out that many vehicles had wheels of the same gauge as the tramway carriages, and the owners of such vehicles might, in consequence, easily come within tho Act. Mr Downie Stewart objected to that part of the Bill which cast the onus of proof on the defendant in prosecutions. The Premier agreed to this boiug amended in committee. Mr Ward supported the Bill as a fair one, and said the Tramway Company in Wellington was being offered opposition which could not by any means be called fnir. After furthor discussion the seoond reading was agreed to. LANDS ACT AMENDMENT BILL. The Minister of Lands moved the second reading of this Bill. The Government, he said, reoognised the inadvisableness of frequently altering the land laws, and the principal reason for tho present Bill was that the Canterbury pastoral leases falling in in 1890, it was thought necessary to effect legislation concerning them. At the same

time tho opportunity was taken for making several slight amendments, especially with respect to payment of thirds to local bodies. He exolained the provisions of the Bill in detail/ The important portion of the measure, he said, was that dealing with pastoral leases. About two millions of acres would fall in in Canterbury in IS9O, of which 500,000 acres would be suitable for cutting up into smaller areas than runs. It was felt that if these lands were disposed of on different conditions, it would be of benefit to the holder and to the State. The lands had been classified into purely pastoral and pas-toral-agricultural. Provision was made for a tenure being changed from perpetual lease to deferred payment, except on account of lands acquired after 1887, the reason for that reservation being that since the end of that -year selectors had been able to choose from various tenures. With reference to the grant to Mr Bell, of the Kermadec Islands, it appeared that Mr Bell had already assigned his interest to a limited liability company, and it would be for the House to say whether or not the grant should, under those circumstances, be made. He thought himself that Mr Bell had sold what was not his. . As to the machinery for carrying on the work of the land boards, whioh expired at the end of this session, he was aware that there would be a difference of opinion on the point. But ho thought that if members studied the question they would come to the same conclusion as he had. With regard to tho results of the Land Act of last session, the Minister said the number of acres brought under its operation was 720,000, and the results of tho sales for settlement had been satisfactory. From the 21st March to the 30th June this year—three months and ten days—the number of selectors was 593, and the area they took up 95,517 acres. Of that acreage, the cash purchases amounted to £13,700, the number of selectors being 171, tho acreage nearly 21,000, and tho average price 13s per acre. There were 123 deferred-payment settlers who took up 143,000 acres, the yearly instalments amounting to £1385. There wero 299 selectors under perpetual lease, who took up over 60,000 acres at an annual rental of £2774. It was very apparent that tho perpetual lease system was the one most acceptable to the public, but there was an objection to it that it was not so good for revenue purposes. Mr Ballance said tho policy of the Government had, a 3 he had predicted, resulted in a falling off in the land revenue, and they were now face to face with the fact that that revenue was smaller than it had been for many sessions. He regretted tho action of the Government in changing the systems of tenure, and deprecated this “chopping and changing.” He approved the classification of pastoral lands/but thought the House should have had an opportunity of giving an opinion on it. He strongly opposed the abolition of Land Boards, arguing that their cost had been very small, and that such an important function as the administration of the lands should not be taken from representative bodies and handed over to a department in Wellington. He eulogised Mr Bell as a settler who had done good work, and regretted that reflections had been made upon him.

The Minister of Lands said he had simply stated the faots, and had cast no reflection upon Mr Bell. Mr Ballance, continuing, said the Minister had neglected to deal with a revision of the deferred-payment system. He suggested that this work could not be better carried out than by the Land Boards. Mr Beevham congratulated the Minister on the Bill which he had brought in. He hoped the Government would give attention to the important matter of roads. In this provincial district sections were frequently taken up which had no road access, and it would be well for the Government to at once proclaim roads wherever they were necessary and it could be done. Referring to Mr Ballance’s remarks about the land revenue, Mr Beetham held that it was better for the revenue to suffer a little by selectors getting easy terms, than that settlers should fall into, the hands of money-lenders. He objected to the abolition of Land Boards, and intimated that he should again move in the direction of getting elective boards. Mr J. McKenzie twitted the Government with having passed a Bill last session which would do more than auy other measure to create monopolies. The usual adjournment was taken at 5.30.

EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30. LAND BILL.

The discussion on the second reading of tho Land Bill was resumed. Mr McKenzie, resuming his speech, said the Government had induced people to go on tho land by reducing the prices and making it worth while to buy. Ho opposed the proposal dealiug with Land Boards. Mr Cowan and Mr Hobbs supported the Bill. Mr Pyice took exception to the clause providing that the price of forfeited land should be subject to the approval of tho Minister. He also objected to the abolition of Land Boards. Mr Marchant supported the Bill, and combatted tho assertions of Mr J. McKenzie. Mr Kep.k opposed tho main proposals of the BUI, but intimated that he should do his best in committee to make it a good Bill.

fc'ir George Grey said it was in the power of the Government to have introduced a Bill which would have attracted farmers and capital from all parts of the world ; and ho pointed out the special advantages which they had in the fact that the couutry had roads, railways, telegraphs and so on, and a country very sparsely populated. But what did the Bill contain? Nothing. He taunted the Government with having, by their own showing, given 2,500,000 acres of land to a small foreign syndicate for nothing, while tho Minister boasted of having sold 95,000 acres of land to people in the country. Was it not unfair, he asked, to deal so with the people here in the Colony, who had just olaims on the Government? He argued that the decrease of the land revenue was not necessarily a bad sign, and exnressed an opinion that the main cause of the present distress among farmers and others was that people had taken up too much land at prices beyond

their means. Regarding the Fair Rent Bill, he pointed out that eight years ago he proposed a measure identical with that which the Government now had before the House, and regarding {which they heard favorable opinions from all sides of the House, yet when he brought it in members of the present Government opposed it. As to the present Land Bill, would the Minister deny that many of its proposals were copied from measures he (Sir George Grey) had introduced ? He deprecated the Minister’s remarks about Mr Bell, and expressed a hope that the hon gentleman would explain that he had not intended to oast obloquy upon Mr Bell.

Dr Newman pointed out that in the Wellington and Hawkes Bay districts there were large quantities of land whioh the Minister had never seen—more was the pity, for the hon gentleman might have seen the amount of stagnation which existed. Largo areas were to be found all over the Weilington province which should be brought into the market for sale and settlement. If it belonged to a syndicate it would at once be put in the market; and they had in the experience of the Wellington-Manawatu Railway Company and the Masterton Corporation fproof that such land would be eagerly taken *up. But of late the Government policy in regard to land had been a silent one. He was of opinion that, if the waste lauds of the Colony were widely settled, the depression would be greatly decreased. Mr Turnbull expressed himself in favor of cutting up the Canterbury run 3. He did not oppose the Bill, considering that it was not necessary to debate it till it came from the Waste Lands Committee. Mr Buchauau and Dr Ilodgkinson objected to the abolition of Waste Lands Boards. Mr Hutchison ooncurred in Mr Ballance’s suggestion that the question of dealing with the pastoral lands should be left over till the Crown Lands report was before the House. Mr Blake suggested that tho Land Boards should meet once a quarter as a board of revision on what the Commissioner had done. He agreed generally with the Bill. CHINESE IMMIGRANTS BILL. The Legislative Council having appointed managers for a conference on the Chinese Immigrants Bill, a message was read to that effect from the Council. As Mr Seddon, one of the managers elected by the House, is away from Wellington, Mr Pyke’s name was substituted for his. LAND BTLL. The debate on the second reading of the Land Bill was resumed. A number of members having spoken, The Minister of Lands replied. He dealt at length with the arguments against the Bill, asserting that it had been the endeavor of the Government to give equal facilities to the man who wanted one acre with those given to larger selectors. He pointed out that it was not proposed to abolish the Land Boards ; they were practically abolished by legislation last session. The Bill was read a second time, and referred to the Waste Lands Committee. CALIFORNIAN THISTLE ERADICATION BILL. On the motion to go into committee on this Bill, Mr Hutchison intimated that he should move amendments in committee, the effect of which would be to give tho local bodies the administration of the Bill. The Bill was committed. Mr J. McKenzie moved to alter the short title to the Californian Thistle, Gorse, and Sweetbriar Eradication Bill.—Lost by 26 to 9.—Mr Hutchison moved to add to tho title the words “ and other noxious weeds or..*plants.”—Lost 22 to 10 - —Mr Herr moved to report progress, and was supported by Mr Hobbs, who said that as important business was to be done next day he objected to being detained by members “playing the fool ” (words which the hon member promptly withdrew at the instance of tho Chairman). Motion to report progress lost by 17 to 8. Mr Hutchison then moved to strike out “eradication” and substitute “extermination.” —Mr Buxton opposed the clause, and made certain vague references to donkeys being on the increase in New Zealand. —Mr Hutchison withdrew his amendment, and the olause was agreed to.—Mr Dodson then moved (at five minutes past 1) to report progress.—Mr Pyke warmly protested against reporting progress j and Mr Perceval supported it, pointing out that it was evident no business would be done. The Colonial Secretary (who was in charge) wanted to know why they could not do any business, and resented the idea that because several members opposed the Bill no business should be done. He urged the House to fairly consider this important Bill. Mr Dodson disclaimed any opposition to the Bill, but thought they should not go on with it in such a thin Houso at so late an hour. After further discussion, the motion for reporting progi ess was agreed to on the voices, and the House rose at 1.20 a.m.