CHAMBER OF COMMERCE.

New Zealand Mail, Issue 850, 15 June 1888, Page 10

CHAMBER OF COMMERCE.

Tho quarterly meeting of the Ghamber of Commerce was held last Friday afternoon. There were about 15 members present, and Mr J. H. Cock (President) occupied the Chair. president's address. In opening his address Mr Cock said the remarks he would make would be of a general character. So much had of late been said about the depression in the Colony that he almost hesitated to refer to it, and yet it could not be ignored; it was really the starting point for the consideration of all their questions. For a number of years they had undoubtedly been passing through a period of adversity. The sister colonies of Australia had also experienced a trying time, though, happily, they seemed to have pretty well got through it. That we should soon get through ours he had little doubt; but before we could "return to the prosperity for which they ardently longed, and of the return of which he thought they could see some signs, they must more than ever learn the lessons which their adversity would teach them—of increased, public and private economy, and greater prudence in the administration of both public and private affairs. That such had been done, especially in a private way, he would freely admit. He was sure thare had been on the part of tne trading community a determined effort made to pull things together and bring them under control. His own personal experience, and he was not singular in this respect, was that for months past engagements with traders had on the whol3 been exceedingly well kept. He thought they might congratulate themselve ■ on the soundness of Wellington. The productiveness of the Colony was so great that this alone must do much to restore prosperity. It might be that' in many oases too high a price had been paid for land, and that a re-arrangement of values might have to take place, but this would not interfere with the real productiveness of the Colony, which would go on increasing. It was satisfactory to know that last year their exports exceeded in value their imports by half a million. Their greatest export, wool, was happily finding a good market at Home, and, if prices maintained their present level for a year or two, a very great lift would bo given to the Colony, The same unfortq-

nately could not be said for wheat, which Was Belling very low. The conditions under which they competed with the world in this article were not favorable to them. Frozen mutton had not risen to the Usual price during the past English winter, but there w>s at present a good local market for sheep fit for export. The export of dairy produce might now be considered as having passed the experimental stage, and as being firrhly and profitably established. It now tested with the produoer by careful preparation to make a great success of it. The trade of the country was at present almost at a standstill, pending the settlement of the tariff question. The annual recurrence of this stoppage was much .to be deplored, as it caused great lo3S. The Chamber had already, to a certain extent, considered the tariff question, and the resolutions passed a week ago had been conveyed to the Colonial Treasurer ; but, as they kuew, had had but little effect. (Mr Dransfield : Hear, hear.) From all appearances the Customs Duties Bill, with all its - objectionable features, would pass into law. He feared they could do nothing to prevent it. He Coiild not but look upon it as a retrograde steps, and that the Colony, in consequence, would take all the longer to return to prosperity. Coming to the work ot the Council during the past quarter, further consideration had been given to that most fruitful of all subjects, the Bankruptcy Act. Supplementary suggestions were agreed to, and after considering the recommendations of other Chambers, these were appended to the suggestions already agreed to by the Chamber, and submitted to the Government, who had been urged to deal with the matter this session ; but from the answer given in the House by the Minister of Justice to a question on the subject, he feared nothing would be done. The various Chambers of the Colony have compared notes and arrivod at very similar conclusions as to the alterations that were desirable. For his own part, he attached great importance to those clauses which insisted on the keeping of proper books of account and periodical stocktaking. There was no doubt that bad bookkeeping was answerable for a large proportion of the insolvency throughout the country. Another great cause of bankruptcy which they could scarcely legislate against, but which they could all do something to check, was the reckless credit so often given. They would find in almost every case of bankruptcy that the chief deficiency was accounted for by bad debts, and that in most cases they had been incurred without reasonable care', and allowed to run on for a great length of time. The recommendations on the subject of Native lands legislation made by their late President in his annual address, which were formally adopted by the Council, were forwarded to the Government. He explained that under ordinary circumstances these resolutions would have been submitted to the Chamber, but as the session was close at hand the Council of the Chamber had ventured to deal with the matter direct. It was satisfactory to know that the Govern, meat had embodied most of the resolutions in their Native Lands Bill, now before Parliament. Tbe only businesa arising out of the last meeting was the question of finance. Exception was taken then to the cost of carrying on the Chamber, and the matter wa3 considered by a Committee consisting of the President, VicePresident and late President, who had presented a report, which was adopted by the Council. He then read the report, which stated that Mr Macdonald’s statement that the expenditure for rent and salary amounted to nearly SO per cent of the income of the Chamber, seemed to be based upon an oversight, as'it referred only to tin income from subscription, and left out of view the revenue derived from the use {of the room, and other minor item 3, which together had produced £435 43 4d during the period referred to in Mr Macdonald’s remarks. The total income of the Chamber during the thirteen years in question was £3077 10s lOd, and the expenditure for rent and salary amounted to £2022 18s 4d, or nearly 66 per cent of the income. During the eleven years the room had been used by the Chamber, the return rents received had amountad to £345 17s 61, or an average of £3l 8s lOd per annum, leaving the net rental borne by the Chamber at £6B 11s 2d. The Committee had compared yhe expenditure of the Chamber with tli&t of other similar Chambers in the Colony, and they had found that the comparison was not unfavorable to the Wellington Chamber. Under all circumstances the Committee did not see its way to recommend any alteration from existing arrangements. He formally moved the adoption of the report. Mr Cock coneluded his address amidst considerable applause.

Mr E. W. Mills seconded the motion. Mr T. K. Macdonald said it seemed to him rather singular that the report of the subcommittee of the Council should be formally moved and seconded in this way. It was not a committee moved for by the Chamber, and therefore he saw no reason why it should be done. The report struck him as a most curious one. He* was the author of the motion calling attention to the serious financial condition of the Chamber, and in the first paragraph of the report the statements he had made were referred to, but yet he had not been asked to explain how he arrived at those statements. He considered that a want of courtesy had been shown by the Council in the matter. Referring to the resolutions in regard to the Native lands, he said he had nothing to say against them, but he considered that the apology the President had made for the Council’s action was very necessary. He considered it very improper that the Council should fix amongst themselves a series of resolutions dealing with one of the most important questions in the Colony and send them to the Government as the united voice of the Chamber, without first submitting them to the Chamber.

The President said they were very careful in stating that the resolutions were arrived at by the Council and not the Chamber. He further stated that) the whole matter had been before the Chamber at the annual meeting, when marked approval was expressed. Mr Macdonald maintained that the Cqunoil had acted improperly, and the members of the Chamber ought to have been consulted. 0e wept on to sajr that he considered the

President’s remarks respecting bankruptcy as well timed. He had noticed from statistics that the Government were making considerable revenue out of the administration of this department, and ho did not consider it was a department out of which revenue should be derived. In connection with this subject, theory of depression throughout the country had led to the salaries of official assignees being reduced, and this he regarded as a very great mistake. The official assignees were charged with most important duties in connection with the mercantile communiy, aud they certainly should bo men possessed of good character, and capable of holding the confidence of the raercantile community. Now the effect of reducing the salaries would probably mean that they would have a set of inferior men to fill the positions. He thought it would be well if some of the members of the House took up this question. Tho President had stated that he was afraid the Customs Duties Bill would soon become law. Now, he entirely dissented from those who held that the • adoption of the tariff would bo injurious to the Colony as a whole. The only colony which had. adopted Protection. (South Australia)—which had been more depressed in consequence of the failure of two of its principal banks—had, since the adoption of its new fiscal policy, greatly prospered, and its yearly balaueeshoetshowedalargeaurplus. He did not agree with tinkering with the tariff ; but to place it on a sound basis and give encouragement to local industries could not but bo productive of good in the long run, no matter how much a few companies in the wheel of their political machinery were put of joint for the moment.

Mr Dnthie said he did not think the Council had acted in an unusual manner in sending the resolutions to’ the Government without first submitting them to the Chamber. The executive of the Chamber had acted in the same manner with regard to resolutions of a much stronger chaiaeter since Mr Macdonald had been a msmber of the Chamber. Mr Macdonald said this was absolutely untrue, and he challenged Mr Dnthie to prove it. Mr Dutliie, in reply, said life was too short to tnrn up the history of the Chamber, but what he had said was correot. (Mr Dransfield : I entirely endorse Mr Macdonald’s statement.) Mr Dnthie suggested that if Mr Macdonald had been a member of the Council nothing would have been said about it. Mr Macdonald pointed out to Mr Dnthie that he had refused to be nominated. Mr Dut’nie said, as a member of the Council, he would not take the blame which Mr Macdonald hurled at their heads. * . > The resolution was then put and carried.. NOTICE OF MOTION. Pursuant to notice Mr Duthie moved That By-law No- 2 be repealed, and that the following be inserted in place thereof, viz. “The Council shall be elected by ballot at the annual meeting from the whole body of members.” He said it would do gaway with the question of nomination, which people did not seem to always think of, when an election was near. Mr E. W. Mills seconded the motion. The only hitch that might occur was in tbe event of some one being elected and then refused to act.

-Mr D. T. Stuart supported the motion. Mr Dnthie said, in reply to Mr Mills, that the Council would have the power to elect a member in case anyone should refuse to act after being elected. The President scarcely thought the change was necessary, and he would be inclined to adhere to the present form of election. He, however, would not oppose it. The resolution was then put and carried. CORPORAL PUNISHMENT FOR ARSON. The President said there was one matter which should have been put on the order paper. Mr Stuart, at one of the meetings of the Council, had expressed a desire to bring forward a resolution recommending corporal punishment in cases of arson. Mr Sfciart said some people might think it was a curious matter to bring before the Chamber, but he had figures to show that the crime was so prevalent that some more severe measures should be taken for its prevention than those which existed at present. The figures which he would quote related to Wellington and the districts around it. The fire losses paid up for the year ending March 31 last was £70,000, the offices of this Colony losing at least 10-17th of this, or £40,000. From the estimate of two managers of insurance companies, the percentage of wilful fires was 42 per cent in ordinary times, 56 per cent, in times of depression. But taking tho figure of 33J per cent, there was of this £40,000 the sum of £13,000 due to incendiarism, to which must be added 33 J per cent, of the estimated losses for the year not covered by fire insurance, which made a sum of £23,000 utterly lost to the public in consequence of fire-raising. The losses did not stop there, because, were it not for this evil, which he understood from an insurance agent was more prevalent here than in the other Australian colonies, the fire rates would necessarily be lower. There was much reason, he regretted, to fear that men in good positions, and apparently honest before the world, were guilty in this respect. They, no doubt, argued to themselves that it; was only the insurance companies that suffered, but it was the people who suffered as well. He felt assured that if the judges were given the power to order corporal punishment when a prisoner was convicted of arson, that it would have a deterrent effect. He therefore moved that, in the opinion of this Chamber, power should be given to the judges in New Zealand to inflict corporal punishment in oases of arson.

The President said he was not quite sure whether they were going beyond their functions in discussing this matter. No doubt it Was a very important matter to the Chamber, and he should assume that the means of its prevention should also be discussed. Mr E. W. Mills seconded the motion. He thought that a great deal of wrong was done by this crime, and the punishment could not be too severe for it. Mr Macdonald said he did not know how far Mr Stuart was justified in sending it forth to the world that New Zealanders were guilty of the crime of arson to a greater extent than their neighbors in Australia. If the convictions for arson were taken into account there was less arson in this Colony

than in the sister colonies. The mistake seemed to be on the part of the insurance companies. It was tlieir business to see that a careful inquiry was made into every fire that occurred, and he considered that they disgracefully neglected their duty. Fire 3 after fires occurred in which no inquiries were held. What right then had the insurance companies to say that they were the work of incendiaries? He utterly disbelieved Mr Stuart’s statements, and that gentleman had made a serious error. There should be leas over-insuring stocks aud properties, and the insurance companies should see that an inquiry was held into every fire in which they were interested. Mr Duthie said it was tho law of the country that corporal punishment should only be inflicted in cases of offences against tho person, and he scarcely thought it would he altered, lie suggested that the motion should not be pressed. Mr Campbell pointed out to Mr Macdonald that the insurance companies had over and over again asked for inquiries into the fires which occurred, but they had not succeeded in getting them. The Underwriters’ Association had written to the Minister , of Justice ou the necessity of inquests being held, and they had received a reply to the effect that the police considered there was no evidence to warrant inquiries. It was quite an error to think that the insurance companies were neglecting their duty in that respeot. As regarded the matter of over-insurance, he mignt go into it and rebut the matter, but he did not think it was necessary. No doubt there was a little carelessness over twopenny-halfpenny risks, but not so with large risks. If a man was determined to work » big swindle, how were the Underwriters to get out of it ? A manunight have a large stock on the premises one day, and remove it the next. He thought it was a great pity that Mr Macdonald should make such sweeping assertions as he had. Mr Macdonald said he was not aware that the companies had endeavored to get inquiries held. The insurance people should bring some resslution before the Chamber, and they would no doubt get some legislative action on it.

Mr Campbell being asked by Mr Stuart to give an estimate of the percentage of wilful tires, said he would scarcely venture to say what the proportion was. It was a very hard matter to arrive at, but ro doubt the greater number of fires were the result of incendiarism.

Mr Stuart said he believed his figures were taken at tho lowest possible estimate. He then, with the consent of his seconder, withdrew the motion. SHOP HOURS BILL. Mr Duthie said he would like the Chamber to give some expression of opinion with regard to the above Bill, which was now before the House. It seemed to him that it was au unnecessary interference with liberty, and he characterised the Bill as a piece of “flabby sentimentality.” He did not know what class were supposed to be wronged by not closing early. He went on to say that if all the fancy goods’, fruiterers’, and other shops were closed at 6 o’clock, it would greatly affect tbe appearance of the town. The people whom this Bill would affect were those who depended upon what they took in their shops of an evening for a livelihood, and, if it was passed, they would not be able to exist. He moved, “ That in the opinion of this Chamber the Shop Hours Bill is a most objectionable interference with liberty, and it will cause much misery if passed.” Mr Dransfield seconded the motion, agreeing entirely with Mr Duthie’s remarks. The ne.-t thing they would have was the Government regulating the time when they should go to bed, and when they should wash themselves.

Mr \V. Tustin disagreed with the remarks of the previous speakers. It was not the small shopkeeper, but the grasping shopkeeper who desired to add more to his profits by keeping open at all hours, that would object to tee measure. He did not think that closing at 6 p.m. on week days and 10 p.m. on Saturdays could be called at all early hours, and he did not consider that it was to the benefit of the health of assistants aud shopkeepers to work after 6. In his opinion the small shopkeepers would very much sooner close up at an early hour. Mr J. Jack supported the motion. His experience was that many people who kept shops on Lambton-quay were entirely dependent upon their takings in the evening. It was not at all compulsory that they should keep open ; it was a free country, and they could shut up if they liked. If this Bill was passed it would be the means of keeping people away from the Colony. Mr Mills was in favor of the motion.

Mr Macdonald said there was something funny about the Bill, inasmuch as it debarred a man from purchasing the necessaries of life at night. Ho could get drunk at an hotel, poisou himself with nicotine at a tobacconist’s, but he could not get a loaf of bread. Mr Stuart remarked that it would be a bad look out for the Gas Company. Mr Duncan said the gentleman who was trying to pass this Bill was not looking around him. The Government had a Protection policy before the country, and they' all knew that every country that adopted Protection had had to lengthen the hours, in order that the people might make a living. Mr Dransfield -. That's a good Freetrade speech. The resolution was then put and carried, ,with one dissentient. A vote of thanks to the Chairman brought the meeting to a close.