TALK WITH ENEMY

New Zealand Herald, Volume 81, Issue 25085, 26 December 1944, Page 6

TALK WITH ENEMY

" DOMINION GENERAL' CAMPAIGNS DISCUSSED, PRISONERS INTERVIEWED KTFPENBERGER'S STORY By Telegraph—Press Association—Copyright (Special Correspondent) [(Reed. 8.30 p.m.) LONDON, Dec. 25 Three generals sat down in a room in London recently and talked over their campaigns in North Africa. One was Major-General 11. K. Kippenberger of the Second N.Z.E.I'. The others wore von Thoma and von Sporcke, two Wehvmacht generals captured in Egypt. Von Sporcke, commander of the "Ninetieth Light," was directly opposed to General Kippenberger.

The reason for the meeting was to enable General Kippenberger, who is devoting some of his time to the historical section of the War Office, to collect data on the Sommo campaign in 3910 and tho North African campaigns. The Germans speaking in English conversed quite freely and amicably on the specific points raised. Rommel Arbitrary and Difficult General Kippenberger, when interviewed, said von Thoma and von ".Sporcke had hardly a good word to say for the other senior commanders in the .Wehrmaeht and they both hated Rommel. They said he was arbitrary and difficult to work with. He would often go direct to a. unit and give it orders ■without telling its formation commander, thus causing confusion and trouble. Both admitted, however, that he had splendid drive. The generals made the interesting revelation that when Rommel was away on leave and the German forces were at 101 Alamein von Thoma hail prepared plans for the" German Army to retreat before, the October moon to Halfya Pass and Solium, the reason being that they were having difficulty in maintaining their communications. Von Thoma's Plan Over-ruled

They expected a British attack and ron Thoma wanted to strengthen his forces and give longer_ lines of communications to the British while fighting several rearguard actions. If the Germans had retreated the British attack would have been delayed until at least the middle of November.

When Rommel returned he would not hear of a retreat. The plan was sent to Hitler's headquarters, which confinned Pommel's decision. The generals .expressed the opinion, however, that had Rommel been convinced that retreat was the best plan he would not Jiave hesitated to have gone against ■the orders of headquarters. He had done this before during May •when, although Hitler ordered him to 'take Tobruk and stay at Solium, he advanced to El Alamein. Tho generals .said Rommel was convinced he could •win the battle, or at least have a fair .chance of making a "draw" of it. Effect on Malta's Fate It is interesting to the_orise on what ••would have been tho position of Malta had the Germans retreated before the battle of El Alamein. Malta was in a •precarious position. A convoy from Alexandria had failed to roach the island ! because of lack'of air support and until •.the Cyrenaican airfields could bo recaptured thero was little chance of this i necessary support being provided. Per.'haps Malta would have fallen. 1 Field-Marshal Montgomery certainly Ulifl not want Rommel to retire and .deliberately did not hit his forces overhard in the battle at the beginning of .September. Field-Marshal Montgomery wanted to defeat the Germans thero .at El Alamein and fortunately the decision of Rommel ,and German head,quarters played into his hands. If Rommel had not been defeated and had , kept his army intact fighting might ,-still be going on in Tunisia today. Battle at Nofllia General Kippenberger and von ;Sporcke had a long talk about their •fight at Nofilia at Christmas, 1942. In •;that battle there occurred the almost .-.unprecedented event iu modern war of -,two opposing commanders seeing one i-another on the field.

Genera! Kippenberger told von ;Sporcke that as the New Zealanders to take the road he saw a .group of German staff officers standing ".on'Hill 164. Von Sporcke confirmed •that he had been one of the officers and that he had seen the New Zealanders' movement in the desert and .their turn to attack tiie road.

Von Sporcke had been too quick for the New Zealanders on that occasion, getting his men off their trucks and ■into position. The New Zealanders got held up by had going, could not get .over the road and were checked. Von ' Sporcke observed to General Kippeni .berger: "We were old friends of yours." New Zealanders Plan Dinner . General Kippenberger told him that I,the New Zealand officers had contemi plated, when the Tunisian campaign was near its end, giving a dinner to the officers of the "Ninetieth Light" when they'captured them, but it never i.catne to anything. Von Sporcke, who I,was most amused, said: "It would have been a great pleasure." He said he knew : .all the personalities of the New Zealand Division by name and asked about ; ;fchem. Von Sporcke gave General Kippenberger the German dispositions at El lAlamein, which entirely checked up with British information. He also confirmed the Wehrmacht's low opinion of the Italians, saying that they let the Germans down on every possible occasion. Incident in 1940 The two Germans also talked about the 1940 campaigns, giving the various positions of the Wehrmarht. The conversation brought to light an interesting incident: In May, 1940, a Ger'aiian major on reconnaissance was shot down and on him the British found a plan of attack in a certain area. Allied headquarters decided it was a "plant," but the Germans told General Kippenberger that it was the actual plan of Attack. The loss of the major caused the Germans great concern, but it was decided to continue with the attack, since it ,was thought unlikely that the Allies vcould alter their positions. AIDING EX-SOLDIERS FORMER NEW ZEALANDER KEccd. 7.10 p.m.) SYDNEY, Dec. '25 Mr Ernest H. Scott, who left Australia in 1915 with tho A.I.P. and served for three years in France, returned to Sydney last week, having /disposed of his interests iri Scott Radio, one of the largest radio building enterprises in the United States. Now f>7 years of age, Mr Scott has retired. He plans to conduct in Sydney at his own expense a "job clinic" for ex-servicemen of this war. Mr Scott is accompanied by his wife. Both were born in Dunedin and have never given up their British nationality. In Chicago Mr Scott conducted at his own expense an Anzac hospitality centre where 2000- Australian and 1000 New Zealand servicemen have been entertained. Ho will shortly visit New Zealand. CANADIAN'S BEQUEST XBecd: 5.35 p.m.) OTTAWA, Dec. 21 Sir William, Mulock, formerly Chancellor of the University of Toronto, and Chief Justice of Ontario, who died on October 1 at tho ago of 101, bequeathed AO,OOO dollars from his estate §f 2,500,000 dollars to the Prime Tir'n l^ol "' Mackenzie King. Sir William Mulock was responsible for r i°t nc ' n S Mr Mackenzie King to pubimi V v ' icn ' as Minister of Labour in J>'oo, he selected Mr Mackenzie King »s dcputyz-Mimstor,