PLANS DEFENDED

New Zealand Herald, Volume 80, Issue 24536, 19 March 1943, Page 4

PLANS DEFENDED

THE FOBCES ABEOAD MR. FRASER STATES CASE PACIFIC RESPONSIBILITY (S.R.) WELLINGTON. Thursday The role of the New Zealand Division in the Middle East and of the force in the Pacific was discussed by the Prime Minister, the lit. Hon. P. Fraser, in winding up the debate on manpower in the House of Representatives to-day. Mr. Fraser, who spoke for an hour and forty minutes, said the attitude of the House was that the future of the Middle East Division should be determined at the appropriate time and that the Dominion must assume a fair share of responsibility in the Pacific. The number of workers making goods for civilian consumption had fallen by B,'} per cent since the outbreak of war —from 534,500 before the war to 194,000 to-day, said the Prime Minister. Since 1939 manpower in the armed forces had been increased 27 times, and in munitions and other direct war work 38 times. Manpower in rural industries had decreased by one-third, in factories making civilian goods by two-thirds, and in other civil industries by more than half. Position in Australia Australia had more than 750,000 men in its three fighting forces. This was ono man in less than four of the total between 14 and 65. Seventy-two per cent of all Australia's factory workers were making munitions and war supplies. In the Pacific a long, stern and weary struggle lay ahead, Mr. Fraser continued. If anyone thought that the defence of the country should be confined to its own shores the sooner he disabused his mind of it the better. The manpower policy could always be readjusted in the light of changing circumstances. A Vital Point The Prime Minister wished to emphasise that Parliament every year had renewed its pledge to employ the whole of its resources against, first, the power of Germany and Italy, and then subsequently against Japan. No critic from the Opposition benches had expressed an opinion as to whether the proposals before the House were advisable. He assumed that the Opposition silence meant assent, and it was silence on a vital point. Mr. J. A. Leo (Democratic Labour — Grey Lynn): I stated my opinion. The Prime Minister: That is so. Mr. W. J. Broadfoot (Opposition— Waitomo): I said I thought there was no need to maintain an army in the country and that- the Territorial Force was sufficient if the Air Force were used as a striking force against an attempt at invasion. Territorial Basis Inadequate Mr. Fraser replied that the War Cabinet had considered reverting to the Territorial system among other proposals, but came to the conclusion that although the situation was somewhat easier the Territorial basis was inadequate. A scheme was wanted which would give greater security. The proposal was to maintain a force which would permit the rapid mobilisation, should this prove necessary, of trained men who had been returned to industry. It had boon possible to consider reducing the army within the Dominion on the lines indicated because men had been sent into the Pacific. In going there the New Zealanders had been able to relieve a whole division of others and had been able to make a vital contribution to the war in the Pacific. "Does any member of the House say that we should not participate in the Pacific war?" the Prime Minister asked. "I want to get this matter settled. As the head of the Government I am entitled to know the opinion of members." Mr. W. J. Poison (Opposition— Stratford): Every member of the House believes that the war should be prosecuted to the limit of our resources, but we on the Opposition side feel that there ought to be some balance between the manpower needs of industry and the armed forces. Question to Opposition Mr. Fraser said that that was a reasonable attitude. He would ask, however, if the Opposition thought it right that the Dominion should prosecute the war irrespective of the theatre of operations. If the War Cabinet's proposals were not the best possible alternatives should be offered by their critics. p There did seem to be a strain of thought among some Opposition speakers that the Dominion should not have gone into the Pacific and there was also almost an implication that to even consider bringing the division back from the Middle East would not only be detrimental but would also carry with it some moral stigma. Assurance to House The Prime Minister said that if in the next 12 months the situation changed and the House thought that the position regarding the Middle East Division should be reconsidered, it would be reconsidered. If lie thought he should consult Mr. Churchill lie would do it. A decision would never bo made without consulting the House. On the last occasion the House met to consider the situation nobody objected to New Zealand men being sent into the Pacific to help in the defeat of the Japanese. "Our American friends have come down to fight the Japanese and we have not remained passive," said Mr. Fraser. "They have given a greater sense of security. This is one of the countries where there are good advantageous bases to fight from and we are glad to have them. It would be cold admiration if we stood by in the Pacific where \ve have our nearest menace and cheered while standing back. "if we are to remain in the Middle East and have men at Guadalcanar or New Caledonia we cannot have them there without reinforcing them. I don't think anyone had suggested that the

force in either sphere should be allowed to die of attrition. We cannot put men in the Pacific and say they are to remain there as a garrison while thenAmerican comrades are fighting." Mr. Fraser said that reinforcements had been based on the American experience of the actual conflict, with allowance made for casualties from all causes. The replacement figures estimated by the authorities in New Zealand were higher than the American experience and the figures were, consequently adjusted. Four months or possibly three was the period for which men could be retained in the Solomons, but they could be moved on elsewhere. There was no malaria in New Cale' donia. Just as American troops after fighting in the Solomons bad come back to New Zealand and some to Australia, so New Zealand troops would have to come back to the Dominion if they were for several months in the combatant zone. Relationship With Australia The Hon. F. Langstone (Government—Waimarino): If the war continues two or three years can we keep up the pace? The Prime Minister: No, we cannot. That is the whole point. "There has been no reduction or our defensive ability, but just a redistribution of our forces," said Mr. Eraser. "We have to take cognisance of what the effect of the new proposals will be on the defence of New Zeahiind, on the morale of the country and on our relationships with Australia. It would be disastrous if anything we did militated against our comrades in Australia. We will tell Australia we are not reducing our war strength, but taking men out of camp who would be better employed in industry. "However long we maintain the division in the Middle East we cannot neglect our front trenches, and it_ is overwhelmingly important that New Zealand should shoulder its share of holding the gateway of the Pacific. At the same time it is unthinkable that we should not maintain our fine men in the Middle East. Thanks to American successes in the Solomons and General Mac Arthur's successes in the Bismarck Sea we have an opportunity to readjust matters here." Shortages of Commodities Referring to complaints of shortages of this and that commodity, Mr. Fraser said the Dominion might be approaching a phase of the war effort when there would be less of the commodities now in abundance and rationing of them was necessary. The struggle in the future might be hard. As far_ as individuals were concerned it might be harder than in the past. It would be wrong for the people of this country to get the idea that the period of sacrifice and endurance was over. It was not. "The point I set out to try to establish," said the Prime Minister, "is that Parliament has decided about the Middle East Division and that we will reconsider its future at the appropriate time. Also, the House is agreed that we must assume our fair share of responsibility in the Pacific and that we must not shirk it, but do our best. •'We believe that the plan before members can be fulfilled for the next 12 months That has not been shaken in any degree. In the absence of any motion to the contrary I must assume that the House is satisfied." Mr. Lee: I would have moved a motion if I could have found a seconder. The Prime Minister: The honourable member is in isolation, whether splendid isolation or otherwise I cannot say. Concluding, Mr. Fraser thanked the House for its consideration of the proposals. MR. HOLLAND'S SPEECH REFERENCE TO DIVISIONS The possibility of an erroneous impression being conveyed by the report in yesterday's Herald of his speech in the manpower debate in the House of Representatives was mentioned yesterday by the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. S. G. Holland. He said it was desirable that any ambiguity or misinterpretation of his reference to the Dominion's two divisions overseas should be cleared up. When speaking in the House he had said: "If we cannot maintain and reinforce two active service forces we have to decide which one we will have. I will have no hesitation in saving which one we should maintain." The report had then continued to make him say that he would favour maintaining the force in the Pacific. Mr. Holland said that was incorrect. His reference to the division sent to the Pacific was that it should not have been made a combat division without the consent and sanction of the House of Representatives.