UPROAR IN HOUSE.

New Zealand Herald, Volume LXIX, Issue 21136, 19 March 1932, Page 12

UPROAR IN HOUSE.

ALL-NIGHT SITTING.

TWO MEMBERS SUSPENDED OBJECTIONABLE WORDS. [REFUSAL TO WITHDRAW (UNPRECEDENTED SCENE [BY TELEGRAPH..—SPECIAL REPORTER.] WELLINGTON. Friday. As a climax to scenes unprecedented in the recent history of tlie New Zealand Parliament, the drastic action of suspend- , ing two Labour members for refusal to withdraw unparliamentary terms was taken by the House of Representatives this morning. Tlio members involved v.ere Mr. P. Fraser (Wellington Central) and Mr. J. A. Lee (Grey Lynn) and suspension was" for the remainder of the Bitting. Feeling ran high during several stages of the all-night sitting in Committee on the Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Amendment Bill and the incident which led to the suspension occurred at five o'clock. ' During consideration of clause seven, dealing with the settlement of disputes, Labour members had urged that a greater measure of protection should be given to women workers. After a long discussion, the Rt. Hon. J. G. Coat.es,. at the time in charge of the House, moved the closure and immediately there was pandemonium. Mr. Fraser described the action as "the most contemptibly mean thing I have ever .known," while Mr. Lee made frequent use of the word " cur" in reference to Parliament as a whole and in particular to Mr. A. J. Murdoch, Chief Government Whip, who had risen to a point of order . regarding the language used. Earlier Incidents. Two incidents which occurred earlier in the morning indicated that tempers 'were on edga and some plain speaking of a kind seldom heard within Parliament —was indulged in. The first serious trouble occurred when the application of the closure had been secured after only a few minutes' discussion on one clause. There were heated protests from the Labour benches, when the Prime Minister, the Rt. Hon. G. W. Forbes, moved the closure, and after the division Mr. Fraser took the Prime Minister severely to task. Mr. J. A. Nash was deputising for Mr. S. G. Smith as chairman of committees, and Mr. Fi'aser moved that Mr. Nash should leave the Chair. Mr. Fraser said his motion was intended as a protest against Mr. Nash's action in accepting a motion after only tw'o speeches. " The chairman obviously does not know his business," asserted Mr. Fraser. " The Standing, Orders make it clear that he must be satisfied that there has been no infringement of the rights of the minority before he allows the question to be put. I want to enter an emphatic protest against the farce that is going on here to-night. This sort of thing is a disgrace to Parliament. I move you leave the Chair, sir, and the sooner the better." Mr. Forbes' Cup of Tea. 9 ■ The sentiment thus forcibly expressed found vigorous approval from the Labour benches Mr. Forbes said the proceedings had thus far been carried on in good spirit and the moving of the closure rather earlier than usual had been caused by the tactics of the Opposition. The Prime Minister said he had been leaving the Chamber for a cup of tea when some Labour members in the lobbies told him they had left the House in order to leave it wiuhoub a quorum, thus necessitating Government members being brought back. If Labour members proposed to disturb other members in that way, the closure would naturally be insisted on. The Leader of the Opposition, Mr. H. E. Holland, declared the Prime Minister's statement showed he had moved the closure in a fit of pique. Tt was not the Opposition's job to maintain a quorum. Tbnt was the job of the Government [Whips. ' { Mr. Fraser's motion was lost Ijy 38 Totes to 23. Mr. Lee's Accusation. A tense scene occurred a little later during .the consideration of the clause dealing with applications for exemptions from agreements made in a conciliation council. During a speech made in defence of the proposal hy the Minister of Labour, the Hon. A. Hamilton, Mr. Lee several times interjected. "This will be used to break down awards." The Minister denied that that effect .would ba produced. "You're telling a lie," declared Mr. Lee. The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Smith: Does the hon. member accuse the Minister of lying? Mr. Lee: Yes, deliberately. The remark caused a profound sensation. After a brief pause, during which his Labour colleagues were giving Mr. Lee whispered advice to withdraw the remark, the Chairman remarked, "I hope the hon. member realises the seriousness of his statement." "Yes, I withdraw." said Mr. Lee. "Make it mis-statement,' " advised Mr. D. G. Sullivan (Labour—Avon). The Minister said he objected to the term that had been used by Mr. Leo and he was glad it had been withdrawn. The incident then closed. Dramatic Suddenness. The climax to an exciting sitting developed with dramatic suddenness. Ihe Committee was discussing clause 7 of the bill and a great deal of attention, was paid by Labour members to the question of women workers. Mr. Coates was engaged in verbal cross-fire with the Labour members upon the definition of compulsory conciliation, and at the end of his speech he moved that the closure be applied. tliero were several amendments "tabled to clause 7 Mr. Fraser rose and asked if the closure motion applied to the whole of the clause and so prevented members from discussing the position of women workers. Not waiting for the Minister to reply, Mr. Smith replied in the affirmative. j "Well," said Mr. Fraser, "that is the most contemptibly mean thing I have ever known." Immediately there was uproar in the Chamber. Labour members joined in a chorus of approval. The Chairman asked Mr. Fraser to withdraw the remark, but the latter re fused. Mr. Lee: That is cowardly in the extreme. If you refuse to amend this clause to give consideration to women workers it is the clause of a Parliament of curs. The Chairman called on Mr. Lee to withdraw the remarks, but Mr. Lee also refused. "Do you persist in that attitude?" asked the Chairman. "Yes, I persist," rcpl'ed Mr. Lee. Mr, Coates: Now don't get 100 excited. ' Mr. Lee: I won't. You have not the cccency nor fortitude to stand up to the [women.

The Chamber was in a ferment as excited members argued hotly wjth one another across the floor. Government members awoke from their slumbers on their benchos and others trooped in sleepily from the lounges where they had been awaiting the division bells. The Chairman sent for the Speaker to report the incident and as the hubbub died down somewhat, Labour members continued to make pointed remarks about the Government. "You aro a gang of incompetent political cowards," said Mr. R. Semple ( Labour—Wellington East). Mr. Leo: There is not a protest among, them. Mr. Murdoch rose to a point of order. "Sit down, you cur," called Mr. Lee. "Sit down, you rotter." Mr. Sample Joins In. Mr. Semple: Yes, sit- down. \ou aro oulv a shadow of your old man! Mr. Murdoch (angrily): Whom are you talking to? Mr. Semple: To you. You would rob women of the right to live decently That's what I think of you. Mr. Murdoch: I'll give you an opportunity to prove that. Further arguments wero interrupted bv the arrival of the Speaker, to whom the position was first explained by the Chairman. Having explained the incident, the Chairman said lie had no option but to call the Speaker. Explaining his position, Mr. Fraser said there was no doubt he had used the words "contemptibly mean." Mr. Semple: And there is no apology either. Mr. Fraser added that Labour members were anxious that something should be done to protect women in industry from the operation of the particular clause, and he had used the words when the Minister intimated, through the Chairman, ' that the closure would apply to the whole clause. An Honest Opinion. "That being my honest opinion," said Mr. Fraser, ''l refused to withdraw the' words." Mr. Speaker: These words """are, of course, most unparliamentary. Mr. Fraser: 1 am aware of that, sir. Mr. Speaker: That being so, the only thing to do is for you to retire from the Chamber. Mr. Fraser walked out and Mr. Lee explained his position. He said he knew the words were unparliamentary, but, believing them to be true, he refused to withdraw them, although he preserved great respect for the Speaker himself. Mr. Lee then walked out. The Speaker said the House would have to deal with the position. He suggested the two members might bo called in again and given an opportunity of withdrawing and their case could be dealt with later. Labour members: It is no good getting them back. The Prime Minister; Now is the time to deal with it. The Speaker said the Prime Minister would have to move for the suspension of the members. Mr. Coates said he was afraid Mr. Fraser's temper had carried him away at the moment. The point Mr. Fraser had raised was answered by the Chairman. I had in mind only the amendment before the committee,""said Mr. Coates. Labour Members: You said the whole clause. No Precedent in Nine Years. Mr. Coates said there was already a new clause dealing with women workers, so the question of women workers would have to be discussed in any case. The Prime Minister asked the Speaker for an instruction, as he had never previously encountered a situation of that sort. The Speaker said he knew of no precedent during his nine years in the Chair. Mr. Holland said nothing would be gained by calling the members back to the Chamber. It was quite understood that the motion to safeguard wosnen workers would be affected by the closure. If the Minister had grasped the situation and expressed his willingness to apply the closure only to the amendment before the committee, the misunderstanding j would not have happened. Mr. E. J. Howard (Labour —Christchurch South) said the Chairman had made it quite clear that the closure would end the debate on the whole of clause 7. Mr. Coates: The closure was intended to apply to the whole of the clause, but 1 had before me on the table a new clause to be moved later by Mr. McCombs and relating specifically to women workers. Further Chance Given. Mr. Semple and Mr. H. T. Armstrong (Labour —Christchurch East) both rose to speak, but the Speaker said there should be no further discussion on the question. The only thing to do was to call the two members back and explain the position to them, and give them an opportunity to withdraw. Mr. Semple: Is there no defence? The Speaker: The offence is admitted. Nothing may be said condoning it. The Sergeant-at-Arms was despatched to summon Mr. Fraser and Mr. Lee. Only the former returned. Upon the position being explained to him, Mr. Fraser said in the circumstances his attitude was unaltered. Refore making a decision, however, lie would prefer to consult with Mr. Lee, whose remarks were contingent upon his own. Mr. Fraser again withdrew from th© Chamber, and, on the Speaker's suggestion, the Prime Minister moved an adjournment of the House for 15 minutes to enable the whole incident to be considered and the possibility of a settlement investigated. c . r ~ When the House resumed at 5.45. JUr. Fraser and Mr. Lee were summoned. Mr. Fraser thanked the House for the opportunity afforded him of considering the facts and consequences of the incident. Jn view of the fact that the action of the Minister in moving the closure was to eliminate discussion on a vital clause of the bill, he realised he would have done the Minister an injustice had the Minister intended the closure to apply only to the amendment and not to the whole clause. Adherence to Words Used. Looking back over the whole circumstances of the case and recognising that the words were unparliamentary —lie would not dream of calling them otherwise—he felt compelled to defy to some extent the ruling of the Chairman. He thought lie had no course to adopt but to adhere to the words used. Mr. Lee explained that he had used the words as a result of the disturbance occasioned by the difference between Mr. Fraser and 'the chairman. He did not use the words with any degree of heal. In fact, he had never used words with a greater measure of deliberation. He regretted to come into conflict in any way with the Speaker, for whom he had sincere respect. At the same time, in the circumstances, he had no intention of withdrawing the words. " I would not he telling the truth if I said I used the words in the heat of the moment," he * said. "I used them deliberately, knowing them to he as unparliamentary as they were true." At the Speaker's request, the two members again retired. Suspension Motion Moved. " I think that nothing remains but for mo to ask the Prime Minister to move a motion," said the Speaker, who added the suggestion that the suspension should apply for the remainder of the sitting. Mr. Forties said lie regretted that he, as Leader of the House, should be called upon to move a motion of suspension. He then formally moved that Mr. Fraser and Mr. Lee be suspended for the remainder of the sitting. Labour challenged the motions, which were put separately. Both wero carried by 39 voles to 21. " Will the Sergeant-at-Arms please convey the decision of the House to the two. members," said the Speaker. " 1 now declare the House again in Committee on the bill," he added in closing the incident.