THE BRIBERY RUMOURS.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XLIX, Issue 14928, 28 February 1912, Page 8

THE BRIBERY RUMOURS.

INQUIRY COMMENCED. | WHAT HAPPENED AT NAPIER. ME. PAYNE'S DENIAL. "NOT A WORD OF TRUTH." SIR J. WARD GIVES EVIDENCE [BT TELEGRAPH— CORRESPONDENT.] Wellington, Tuesday. Inquiry was commenced this morning by the Committee of Privilege regarding the questions referred to it by the House of Representatives as a result of statements made by the Leader of the Opposition on Friday in reference to the member for Grey Lynn. All the members of the committee were present, and Mr. J. A. Hanan (chairman) presided. There were also present the Prime Minister (Sir Joseph Ward), the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. W. F. Massey) and his counsel (Mr. M. Myers), the member for Napier (Mr. J. Vigor Brown), and the member for Grey Lynn (Mr. J. Payne). Later Mr. C. P. Skerrett, K.C., appeared as counsel for Mr. Payne. Mr. Charlea McMasters, who is concerned in the third question of privilege, was in attendance, and the proceedings were watched by a number of members of Parliament.

The chairman announced that the committee was prepared to proceed with the inquiry regarding the writing and the publishing of the extract from the letter received by Mr. Massey and regarding the truth or otherwise of the charges contained in the extract. Mr. Massey and his Counsel. , Mr. Massey said that it was only by chance that he had learned this morning that counsel would bo allowed, and he had had no opportunity of instructing his counsel. Mr. Myers said he should like to have an opportunity to confer with Mr. Massey. Mr. Payne : I also desire to be represented by counsel. Mr. Myevs asked for an adjournment until Thurscilay morning, and a lengthy discussion followed upon this request. Mr. E. P. Lee moved that the committee adjourn till the following morning. Having decided that counsel should be allowed to open their cases the committee must ajlow them opportunity to prepare for the inquiry. Mr. Myers said Mr. McMasters also desired the assistance of counsel in defending the charge against himself. The solicitor whom Mr. McMaster had engaged could not attend until the following day, so that it would be unfair to Mr. McMasters if the committee decided to proceed. _ ! Mr. G. W. Russell asked whether the i committee would cease to exist when the House completed its business. Mr. Hanan: I think so. Mr. W. Fraser: Surely no reasonable man thinks the House will complete its business to-day or to-morrow. Ido not. The Prime Minister : Personally I do. Mr. Millar then moved that subject to the consent of the House the committee should adjourn till three p.m. Mr. Massey's Apology Accepted. Sir Jos. Ward said he was not represented by counsel, and did not intend to be. Referring to the statement made by Mr. Massey orr-4he previous evening, the Prime Minister said he accepted it as an unreserved apology and an unreserved withdrawal. He accepted the apology and the withdrawal in the spirit in which it was made, and he would repeat that statement in the House. Sir Jos. Ward added that he hoped Mr. Massey would induce the author of the letter to accept authority for it. He absolved Mr. Massey in every wav, but the latter aspect of the matter ought to be probed to the bottom in the interests of public life. After some further discussion Mr. Lee's motion was carried by six votes to four. Mr. Brown said he had retained counsel, but after Mr. Massey's apology he bad asked his counsel to withdraw. He accepted that apology. The Second Question of Privilege. After deliberation in private the Chairman announced that the committee had decided to proceed with its inquiry regarding the following statement by Mr. Massey :— Then he said something about whether he was supposed to have been " squared," and I said what was stated in Auckland at the present moment was this: that he had been "squared" by Mr. Vigor Brown and Sir Joseph Ward at Napier. Now, that was the statement that was made quite openly in Auckland. I think Mr. Payne "had begun to see the serious position he proposed to take up, and ho saidjust let me think this over. Mr. Myers eaid Mr. Massey had already fully and amply withdrawn this statement. He did not propose to do any more than put hi Mr. Massey's statement. Mr. Massey Makes No Charge. The Chairman asked Mr. Myers whether he could produce any evidence, documentary or otherwise, which would assist the committee in determining whether the charge that Mr. Payne had been " squared" had any foundation in fact. Mr. Myers suggested that Sir. Massey might be allowed to address the committee. He had already made a statement in the House, and no charge had been made against Mr. Payne. Mr. Myers said he had no evidence to load in regard to the paragraph under review." It was not suggested that the charge had any foundation. What he wanted to make quite clear was that Mr. Massey had made no charge that Mr. Payne had been "squared."

" Squaring " Defined. Mr. Skerrett said his client did not accept Mr. Myers's interpretation of the word " squared" in this paragraph. Ho regarded is as opprobrious, and connoting some improper bribery, or corrupt influence exercised by Mr. Vigor Brown and Sir Joseph Ward at Napier. Mr. Skerrett said Mr. Payne felt bound to accept unreservedly the retraction and apology which Mr. ; Massey had made, but desired an opportunity of stating to the committee that there' was not a word of truth in tho charge. Mr. Massey volunteered a statement, remarking that he made no charge against Mr. Payne, but had made that statement in reference to the alleged " squaring" in answer to a question by Mr. Payne. The word "squared" was first used by Mr. Pavne himself.. Mr. Skerrett said it seemed to him to be finite unimportant whether Mr. Massey had made a charge, or merely given utter- j ance to some rumour or statement made to j him, but he wished to point out that it was ! too late for Mr. Massey to attempt to whittle away, excuse, or palliate the state- ; ment. He submitted that the meaning of [ the charge was entirely S. question for the j committee to determine. I "Thare is no Charge." Mr. Myers said the position was quite plain. What Mr. Massey said was that he had made no charge, and made no charge now. If these to be read as a charge, lie had never made it, and did not make it. Mr. Massey was debarred from explaining to the committee "what was said in Auckland "-—the meaning of it. One point he had desired to make when he was interrupted, as he thought, unfairly, by Mr. Skerrett, was that no suggestion was made at the time about any

money having passed between Mr. Brown and Mr. Payne, or Sir Joseph Ward and Mr. Payne. Mr. Skerrett stated that he had no desire to make matters unpleasant for Mr. Massey, but he objected to Mr. Massey construing for himself the meaning of words which he had used. He asked permission to call his client, in order to show that there was not a word of truth in the charge contained in the statement. Mr. Payne's Denial. Mr. Payne was sworn, and examined by his counsel. He stated that there was not a word of truth in the suggestion that he had been "squared" at Napier by Sir Joseph Ward and Mr. Brown, or by either of them. He saw both Sir Joseph Ward and Mr. Brown at Napier, but did not discuss the political situation with either or both of them. Not a single word was said on the subject. The Hon. J. A. Millar: Have yon at any time been approached by Ministers asking you to change your vote? Mr. Payne : No, neither directly nor indirectly. Eumours in Auckland. Mr. Lee : Have you at any time told any person that there had been any offer to " square" you? Mr. Payne: Yes. Whom did you tell? I told Mr. Massey in his office in this building. Anyone else? Mr. Dickson was present. Anyone else? No one else. To what offer were you referring when you said you were supposed to have been "squared?" I did not make that remark. What did you say? Mr. Massey said to me that I was supposed to have been "squared" by Sir Joseph Ward and Mr, Brown at Napier. But before Mr. Massey said that did you tell him that you were supposed to have been "squared?" No. You had heard nothing up to that time about you being "squared" in any way? Yes, I had. What did you hear? I heard that rumour up in Auckland. From whom did you hear it? Mr. Payne named his chairman of committee and another person. " I told them," he added, "that I had b;en told by Mr. McMaster that he was authorised to give me £500 or £1000 to vote for the Ward Administration. Then they said that it was a rumour in the town that I had been "squared." The date of this conversation Sir. Payne stated was February 9. An Interview With Mr. Massey.

Mr. Veitch asked whsther there was any connection between the suggestion that Mr. Payne should accept a certain sum of money and the rumour that he had been squared at Napier." Mr. Payne replied in tho negative. When Mr. Massey suggested that it was Mr. Brown by whom he was supposed to have been "squared" he replied, No, you are miles out.'" To Mr. Hanan: He did not go to Mr. Massey of his own accord. Mr. Dickson came to him and said that Mr. Massey wanted to eee him, and took him to Mr. Massey's office in Parliament Buildings. The only other person present at the time besides himself, Messrs Massey and Dickson was Mr. Guthrie, who left almost immediately. Mr. Massey showed him a letter signed, he believed, by Mr. Maurice O'Connor, telling Mr. McMaster that he was willing to give £100 to the latter's nominee. This letter was produced by Mr. Massey and shown to witness, who "roughly glanced over it." He could not swear to the date or signature, but thought ithat it was signed by Mr. Maurice O'Connor.

Mr. Myers said that witness was apparently referring to the letter written by Mr. Maurice O'Connor to Mr. McMaster, in which something was said about the writer being prepared to give £100 to Mr. McMaster's nominee in a fresh election.

Mr. Hanan said he wanted to know what took place at the meeting between Messrs. Massey and Payne. - ... ,- -. --,'.t Mr. Fraser submitted that this question could not be. asked, because it .involved matters consideration of which the committee had decided to postpone until the nest day. Mr. Jas. Allen supported this contention, and Mr. Skerrett, as counsel for Mr. Payne, adopted the same attitude. Not Taken Seriously. Mr. Skerrett said there was on© question -which, he desired to put in fairness to his client. " You have said," he asked Mr. Payne, " that you told Mr. Massey in his room at Wellington that something in the nature of an offer had been made to you if you would go in the direction of the Ward Government. I only want your to answer this question, yes or no. Was the suggestion made under circumstances which would entitle you to take the suggestion seriously?" Mr. Payne : No. Answering the Prime Minister, Mr. Payne denied that Mr. Massey had mentioned in Auckland an alleged offer of money to himself (Mr. Payne). This matter was mentioned once, and once only. The Prime Minister : Had you any reason to believe that the offer emanated from myself, or from anybody connected with the Government? Mr. Payne : No. Mr. Brown » I would like to ask whether I ever directly or indirectly made any suggestion in connection with anything as to how you should vote Mr. Payne : No. Mr. Myers remarked that he hoped to cross-examine the witness on the following day. Prime Minister's Evidence. Sir Joseph Ward was sworn. He said he had not at any' time, directly or indirectly, either himself, or through any other person, ever offered to "square" a man in his life in connection with the politics of this country, and that the suggested rumour emanating from Napier in a letter was absolutely untrue. What he was anxious to do was to get the person who made the statement on his oath, as a matter of fairness to himself, and to others. When at Napier he had not discussed the political situation with Mr. Payne, and he had asked Mr. Brown before the latter introduced Mr. Payne, not to expect him to discuss the political situation. He looked upon the rumour as one of many of a dastardly nature, which were circulated about public men.

Mr. Vigor Brown's Statement. Mr. Brown said the statement by the Leader of the Opposition in the House (the paragraph under' review) was absolutely false- He had never at any time made any offer directly or indirectly by innuendo, or in any other way possible. " Mr. Allen remarked that this was not quite the statement, made. Mr. Brown then read the statement, and gave it an emphatic denial. Sir. Russell : You swear that you neither had any conversation with Mr. Payne, nor produced any document, nor did anything, or said anything that could contain an offer on your part to influence his vote? Mr. Brown : I never dreamt of it, or hinted at it in any way whatever. Tiie Scope of Inquiry. Mr. Massey was asked who made the statements in Auckland which he had attributed to rumour. In a discussion which followed, several members held that the question should not be allowed on the ground that the order of reference instructed the committee to report as to whether " words used in the House" constituted a ,breach of privilege. Mr. Myers contended that the committee should not be used as a means of enabling one person to bring a slander action against another. . The committee considered the point in camera, and on resuming, the chairman stated that it had been decided not to ask Mr. Massey by whom the statement bad been' made. Th<l committee adjourned until 10.30 a.m. to-morrow.