THE AUDIT COMMISSION.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XLII, Issue 13006, 25 October 1905, Page 6

THE AUDIT COMMISSION.

DEFENCE OFFICIALS GIVE EVIDENCE. MR. JELLICOE AND THE BENCH. HEATED CONTROVERSIES. [BY TELEGRAPH. —I'PESS ASSOCIATION.] Wellington, Tuesday. The Audit Commission resumed this morning

Thomas Francis Grey, Acting-Under-Secretary for Defence, deposed that between 1903 and September 30, 1904, he'was exclusively the officer who approved and authorised payments on behalf of the Defence Department. No payment for re-organising defence stores had bien made during that period.

A request to the Commission that the books of the Department should be produced to teit the accuracy of witness was refused.

Witness, under cross-examination as to whether fraudulent authority for payment might not be obtained, -aid he could not conceive a fraud happening in connection with the public service of the colony. Mr. Je.licoe proceeded to refer to recent happenings in New South Wales, and to ask questions thereon, but was ruled out of order.

Witness, continuing, said the five officers commanding districts and the defence storekeeper, had authority to certify to claims. During the cross-examinaition of Mr. Grey b\ Mr. Jellicoe, the president of the Commission several times rebuked Mr. Jellicoe, and accused him of wasting the time of the Commission.

Mr. Jellicoc denied that lie was wasting time.

Mr. Justice Denniston, with warmth, said the Commission would have to take strong measures if Mr. Jellicoe persisted. Mr. Jellicoe said lie was not to be intimidated.

Judge Deiuiiston said : "The language you use is insulting to the Court.' Mr. Jeliicoe: "No, Your Honor, the language used to mc is." The Commission ordered Mr. Jeliicoe to proceed with his cross-examination. Mr. Grey, further cross-examined by Mr. Jeliicoe, said lie could not say without reference to the books whether Colonel Porter had certified to payments to Captain Seddon of Imperial money."?. Dr. Findlay (for Captain Seddon) intimated that every voucher and every payment made to Captain Seddon would be produced to the Court.

Mr. Jellicoe: "That doesn't satisfy me." The cross-examination was continued at great length as to the possibilities of evading the ordinary checks on payment, by fraud or otherwise.

Air. Grey said he had sent a memorandum to the Defence Miniate,, on August 3 last, to the effect that a careful search of the Defence and all Treasury books had been made, and that no trace of the receipt of a claim or payment to Captain Seddon, of any sum whatever for re-organising defence stores, could be found. That was in answer to a memoraHdum from Mr. Seddon asking, whether a voucher for between £70 and £80, in favour of Captain Seddon had been passed through. Mr. Jellicoe: But could not a forged voucher be passed through as a genuine one? . Mr. Grey: I could not say, but I don't this!: «o

Mr. Jellicoe: Say the voucher for which we are looking , was substituted for, some other voucher in your books? Mr. Grey: It would be impossible. Mr. Jellicoe: Could not a voucher in the possession of the countersigning officer be substituted for a voucher that had gone through your office? Mr. Grey: No, because the Treasury would detect it as soon as it came back to Wellington.

Cross-examined by Mr. Willis, witness said Captain Seddon joined the Department on March 31, 1903. A voucher to obtain the signature of the authorising officer would have to pass through witness' Department because lie (witness) was authorising officer, but if all officers were fraudulently acting in collusion, it would, of course, b? possible for fradulent vouchers to be, passed through, but- it would bo discovered ere long.

A considerable time was taken up during the examination of this witness by heated controversies between the Bench "and Mr. Jellicoe.

• Frederick Silva l , assistant defence storekeeper, said he was familiar with records of the Department for 1903 and 1904. There had been no reorganisation of the defence stores during that period. No payment was made to Captain Seddoß for supplies to, or services in connection with, the defence stores. In his opinion, if such service had been rendered by Captain Seddon it would have been entered in witness' books.