THE POLICE COMMISSION.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XLII, Issue 12932, 31 July 1905, Page 3

THE POLICE COMMISSION.

UNEXPECTED DEVELOPMENT.

SUB-INSPECTOR BLACK'S

COMPLAINT.

FRICTION WITH THE INSPECTOR.

LIFE SIMPLY A CURSE TO ME."

The Police Commission, consisting of Messrs. H. W. Bishop, S.M., and J. ■ W. Poynton, appointed to inquire into matters affecting the general discipline of the ..police force in the colony, and especially in connection with the, recent scandals at Dunedin, continued its sittings at the Auckland Supreme Court. Buildings at ten o'clock on Saturday mornto*. Among those present were the OomttiasJoner of Police (Mr. W. Dinnie), Inspector Cullen, and Sub-Inspector Blaok.

SUPERVISION ■ AND BEATS.; The first witness called was Sergeant : Williams, stationed at Auckland, who said that during the short .time he had been here he found the supervision as good as it could be. The way in which the beats were arranged was .very satisfactory, as.it enabled a sergeant to pay such frequent visits to-the men that very,long periods did not elapse between them. : n . In reply to Inspector Cullen, Sergeant Williams said when he was stationed at Devonport, some years ago, prior to his transfer to Wellington, and then.to Auckland, he never hoard any complaints in respect to dishonesty among the members of the Auckland police force. MORE CONSTABLES WANTED. Constable Lipscombe, stationed . at Newmarket, gave it as his opinion that not enough constables were stationed in the oity. To properly police the city it required another 10 or 12 constables, and in addition to that another sergeant or two. Ho also thought that the beats.should be shorter. What happened ; in Dunedin could scarcely happen here. Any way, he would not like 'to' try and take it on. THE SERGEANTS' VISITS. .< John Win, Dart, the next-'witness, said that lie was a constable, acting as clerk in the District Office at Auckland. In 1900 lift was doing street duty. Although he did not feel competent -to make any suggestion as regards the working of the Auckland beats, he could say that while he Was on street duty ho found the sergeant's visits very . frequent, a constable never knowing when to exnect them. Tho sergeants often paid surprise visits. Until he read the evidence of the Commission in Dunedin he never knew that they were otherwise. Mr. Bishop: It has been very much so, and .that is the bottom of the whole trouble. A SUGGESTION. After pointing out that he had qualified as a solicitor at the last examinations, Constable Dart went on to suggest that it would be worth while if the Department appointed men such as himself to conduct cases in Court. He made this suggestion partly in his own interests and partly in the interests of the Department. Ho considered that case's could be presented to the Court in much better form than at present, and the sub-inspector would then have more time to devote to his general duties. No man could possibly cope with the work which the subinspector had to do in Auckland. Inspector Cullen asked Constable Dart > if it'would be good, from a disciplinarian point of view, to appoint a constable to take charge of tho Court work, thereby- putting him into such a position as to direct his senior officers as to what evidence they were to get, and to criticise the deficiencies of a case'which they (the sub-inspector and sergeants) might consider complete?. Witness said that it would be left for the inspector to' cast ' reflections if there were any. Mr. Bishop said that the difficulty could be solved by promoting the constable. SUB-INSPECTOR BLACK'S, QUALIFICAT '■' TIONS. - "v-, ;\. ';■:■/

'Sub-Inspector Black: 'In your judgment as a solicitor, then, you consider that I have put my cases before the Court fairly well. Witness: As ■'well as could bo reasonably expected under the circumstances. Constable Dart, continuing, said that, lie considered that Sub-Inspector Black was quite as competent in . prosecuting .as the average sub-inspector. "_ .'Sub-Inspector Black: Is it not represented' that I am incompetent to conduct cases in the Court? .„.....„, Mr. Bishop (to Sub-Inspector Black): i-O what are you referring? . ■ Sub-Inspector Black: I am referring to something that took place between the inspector and myself. Ho has represented that I am incompetent to conduct a case in the Court. ,"■..-. ;■•■'.■; .' ~M ■ '.'-■.? :. .' ; Mr. Bishop: When did you come to know this? „„ , Sub-Inspector Blaok: Three or four months ago. :. „ Mr. Bishop How did you come to know.' Sub-Inspector Black: On applying for a transfer three .'or four mouths ago my application, was returned, with the inspector s report to that effect attached. To the Witness: Are you aware that lam considered as incompetent? _ Witness: I think that that is a matter which the inspector should answer. Witness was instructed to reply. _ _ "Witness: Well, I understand that it is so. Is this suggestion yours or someone else 9? —My own. ..... ■ ' •;'■' , ' The inspector never prompted you to do it?— Until yesterday morning the inspector did not know that I was going to make it. Mr. Bishop: This idea, has originated with yourself, and no one else? . " Witness: Yes; so far as loan see, the inspector is totally opposed to it. ■ Continuing, Constable Dart said that he thought the pay of constables should be increased. If the men were poorly paid, then they were subjected to greater temptation. ■ INSPECTOR AND SUB-INSPECTOR.

•'.', Mr. Bishop, at this stage, said that there were one or two questions which had been asked by Mr. Black which raised the question of the general efficiency of the force in Auckland. That was a matter whioh they were there to inquire into. This was the first time it had been,mentioned. Being aware of certain rumours in regard to the relations between File inspector and sub-inspector, he asked the inspector the question so as to lead up to the ' matter, ■- but the inspector replied to Jhe effect that there was nothing in it,- He thought now that they should thrash the matter out when the inspector and sub-inspector were at loggerheads. If the sub-inspector was not competent, it certainly raised the question of discipline, and consequently supervision and control. It disclosed the "fact that the inspector had nob tho confidence in the sub-inspector that ho .should have. " A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF FRICTION." . Mr. Diunie: That is so. I do not hesitate to say that there has been a considerable amount of friction lately, arising, perhaps, from the remarks of the magistrates in the Court. I have not yet decided anything in the matter. Mr. Bishop pointed out that the matter had only risen incidentally. It was certainly a matter which should bo considered. What they had to inquire into was the control and supervision exercised by sergeants, sub-inspectors, and inspectors, and if the local sub-inspector and inspector were not upon cordial terms, it must affect control and supervision. They could not consult together as they should. He considered, however, that it was a . pity the. matter had come' to light in this way. The matter could not ha left as it was. Mr. Dinnie: The matter has been going on for some time. It takes time to find out who is speaking the truth, and who' is not. SENSATIONAL STATEMENT BY MR. BLACK. Mr. Black: I was in hopes that this matter of washing dirty linen would never have been introduced; and I came here determined to regulate what I had to say by what Inspector Cullen said. He said that our relations were fairly cordial. He chose to say that, and the Commission could judge if it was so. It was suggested that I was only reported as incompetent in regard to Police Court work, but Inspector Cullen gave as a reason that I was incompetent, inefficient, and unable to do my duties. As soon- as the- rupture occurred I applied for a transfer, and I offered to pay my expenses to any part of the colony. My life was simply a curse to me here. I wanted to get away, so that I could do my duty, and so that I could get a chance of being treated with civility and dealt with justly, i So far. as I am concerned I have nothing

to conceal, and I want the Commission to let the 'whole matter lie thrashed out now. Since I have been in Auckland I have stuck to my duty night and day as well as I possiblv could, and I firmly believe that the whole thing is a personal antipathy whieh induced him to make these reports. TO BE INQUIRED INTO. Mr. , Dinnie: I had arranged to make certain changes in the force, and it would have been a change in regard to the subinspector. Mr. Bishop: I think that it is unfortunate that it came out this way. It goes before tho public without the whole facts having been gone into. i , Mr. Dinnie: .1 have no objection to the whole of the, facts being made public. .'■ Mr. Bishop: lii the interests of the force, and in pursuance of tho. commission entrusted to us by the Governor, we will have to consider the matter. Evidence should be taken. Mr. Dinnie: I don't know whether.-.you are suggesting that 1 should have brought the matter out? Mr. Bishop Oh, no; we are not. , I intended to ask you about the matter in Wellington. , Mr. Dinnie: I shall be most happy to give you any evidence. ." Mr. Bishop: We will consider the matter. Mr. Black: In simple justice ;to, myself I think that the matter should be gone into. As it appears in the public press now, it will be injurious to me. I am quite prepared to stand the consequences if it-goes against me. MCDONALD'S ALLEGATIONS DENIED. Constable Cotter, the van driver, was called to explain his relations with ex-Con-stablo McDonald, who had stated that Cotter had written stating that he- could get plenty of things in Auckland." Cotter said that he knew. McDonald, having been intimately associated with him in Christchurch four years ago. It was witness who was " the other man" concerned in the Christchurch beer incident whioh had been given by Sub-Inspector Black the previous day. in consequence of his participation, witness was transferred to Auckland. Since then, however, he had not written to McDonald, who had complained to his (McDonald's) brother-in-law, Constable O'Grady, a mate of witness', about it. i: Mr. Bishop: Have you ever referred in any letter to .thieving going on amongst the constables in Auckland? Witness: No, never. So far as I know, not the value of a match has been taken by any constable in Auckland. Mr. Poynton: Were you on familiar terms with a nightwatchman (named) in Christchurch. , \ ' • ;. ■ Witness: I know him. . • , . •'.; <■•- Did you ever meet him in a spirit store by arrangement?— No. ... I. ; , Well, a very serious statement has been made by McDonald to the effect' that yon were to meet the nightwatchman in that store for the purpose of robbery. Witness: It is absolutely false. .. Mr. Bishop: Can you suggest any reason for such a statement, then? Witness: No, I cannot; excepting that ho wants to make me as bad as himself. Mr. Dinnie: By the tone of McDonald's letter you were pretty friendly with him. Witness: Yes, I was. But I observe in those letters that he never made any ' reference as to thefts? No, he does not. ... . . , ] I see that ho asks you for money.—Tea. Did you settle that?— I did not. And do you suggest then that that is a reason why he wants to implicate you?— might be. •' At the request of Constable Cotter, Constable O'Grady was called. He said that on entering the force at Wellington in 1902 he was transferred to Auckland. He knew McDonald. Mr. Bishop: He is a relative of yours, I believe? ■: :■ '■:' ; ' Witness: Yes, unfortunately so. You are aware of what McDonald has said?— I read it in the papers. , He said that while he was awaiting trial he proceeded to his mother's place at Oamaru, and, according to him, while he was there Constable O'Brien said that he was to cheer up, as it was done by constables in other places, too. Miss McDonald, at Oamaru, informed the Commission that she had seen letters from constables at ;, other places who. did things as bad. When.presv sed to give the names, she was v.eryj unwilling to do so, and it was only after ! considerable pressure that, she handed us up'' a name. That name has. never been di- : vulged, but I may inform you that it was" yours. She said, yours was the letter she had seen which implied knowledge of thefts in other parts of the colony. What have you to say in regard to that?—l absolutely deny that I ever wrote a letter of the kind. I would • sooner die. I wrote to my sister, who is married to McDonald.

You never wrote to him?No; I don't like him. How could I possibly do it? : Can you account, then, for Miss McDonald making such a statement?. She. very unwilling to do so. Witness: She wanted to try and, bring our family to the same level as her own. My sister refused to live with McDonald after the exposure in Dunedin. You realise the seriousness of it? It is McDonald's evidence partly corroborated by Miss McDonald.. . j Witness: It is a deliberate lie on her part. Mr. Bishops Well, it is only fair to tell you that it tool- us half-an-hour to get anything from her about it. Mr. Poynton: She did not wish to implicate you. Have you writ-ten to your sister? . Witness:' Yes, but,, Miss. McDonald could not have seen anything in it like that. A man would be mad to write suoh a thing. Mr. Bishop: She implied that this letter was either in existence or may have been' destroyed Sho said she took it,to Dunedin, and left it there. We assume, of course, that it was left with McDonald's wife,.and that it was written to her.. : * .... Constable Cotter: I think, O'Grady, that you have received more than one letter from McDonald saying that I did not write to him? * Witness: Yes, that is so. CONSTABLE LEE'S EVIDENCE. Constable Lee, the next witness, said that he was in Dunedin when several of the con? victed constables were doing duty -there. Ho knew them. After being transferred to Auckland he only wrote once to any of the constables in Dunedin, and that was to Constable Charles Osborne. It was Constable Oliver Osborne who was convicted.

Mr. Bishop: It is said by McDonald that you wrote to Constable Charles Osborne, saying that acts of similar kinds were going on in other parts of the colony. Witness: I never wrote anything of the kind. It is a lie. '■'•.- ;•.,■■;.■•

McDonald says that you wrote that Auok land was the worst of the whole lot.—l only wrote once to Constable Charles Osborne, and that was enclosing a post office order for my mess. Mr. Poynton: In that letter then you never wrote anything about thieving going on in Auckland? <

Witness: No, I never did. K > . . Do you know why such statements should be made, then?— in Dunedin, while I was there,; every man seemed to be fighting against the other. In faot, there was no discipline whatever in Dtuiedin.',",/ Continuing, ' witness said that the_ cause of tho lack of discipline in 'Dunedin' was that tho beats were, too, long.. He looked upon Sergeant ' Higgins as this: most incapable officer of the lot there. -When witness complained about the beats he received a rebuff from tho inspector. Commissioner Dinnie then said that inquiries which he had made certainly corroborated what Lee had said. Immediately McDonald made a statement implicating Lee in regard to his letter to Charles Osborne, ho (Mr. Dinnie) interviewed Osborne. He said the same as Lee, who was also interviewed in Auckland at the . same time, giving the same account. There was no time whatever for either of the men to have communicated with one another. OTHER EVIDENCE. Evidence was also given by Constables Skinner, Murphy, McCormick, Cox, *nd Murray, all of whom said that there was no thieving going on among the members of tho force in Auckland. If there had been, they would have known. They - all agreed that Auckland should be better policed, and considered that they should be better paid. A NUMBER OF COMPLAINTS. ..'. Mr. James Regan handed to the' Commission a written statement, containing a number of complaints as to the administration of the police force in Auckland. The Commission informed Mr. Regan that they would state on Monday what steps; they would allow him to take. The Commissioners also intimated that they would refer to the statement which had been made by SubInspector Black on Monday. • At twelve o'clock the Commission",'•': adjourned the proceedings until eleven o'clock this morning. \