PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XXXVI, Issue 11199, 20 October 1899, Page 6

PARLIAMENT.

[by telegraph.— ASSOCIATION. | LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Thursday. The Council met at half-past two p.m. BILLS PASSED. The Government Accident Insurance Bill and the Native Reserves Act Amendment Bill passed through their final stages without amendment. PHARMACY ACT. The second reading of the Pharmacy Act Amendment Bill was agreed to on the voices, and the committal of the measure made an order of the day for next afternoon. The Council rose at twenty minutes to five p.m. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Thursday. After the telegraph office closed at two o'clock this morning, consideration of class 8 of the Public Works Estimates was continued, and the class passed- unaltered, and progress reported. BILLS RECEIVED FROM THE COUNCIL. The Millers' Hours of Labour, Pacific Cable Authorisation, and Kauri Gum Industry Act Amendment Bills were received from the Council and read a first time. The! amendments made by the Council in the Marlborough High School Bill were agreed ) to. On the motion of the Premier, it was ; decided to disagree with the amendments 1 made by the Council on the Police Provident Fund Bill, on the ground that the amendments would infringe the privileges of the House. PHARMACY BILL. The Pharmacy Act Amendment Bill was committed, reported without amendment, read a third time, and passed. MAORI LAND LAWS. The Maori Land Laws Amendment Bill was reported from the Native Affairs Committee. A motion that the Bill be committed next day was carried by 28 votes to 14. The House rose at twenty-five minutes past three a.m. The House met to-day at half-past two p.m. The Premier, in moving the second reading of the Maori Lauds Administration Bill, said the Bill applied only to the North Island. There had been difference of opinion as to the measure, but while in committee that would no doubt be satisfactorily adjusted. Tli<j Council to administer the lands it was proposed should consist of six natives and a similar number of Europeans, the former to be elected by the natives, and the latter appointed by the Government. Under the Bill natives may vest their lands in the Council, who are empowered to lease the land, the proceeds to go to the natives. A first principle was that there should be no more sale of native land, and that the land should not be allowed to remain as it is. The Council may borrow from the Government money for surveying and reading the land, the Slate being properly safej guarded. Mr. Heke said the objection hitherto to ' all native land legislation was the tendency to restrict individual rights. Blocks of land had been acquired by the Government at a low price and sold at three or four times the amount paid for them. He objected to several provisions in the Bill, particularly that investing the Council with judicial functions, which would only tend to heap up expense, and which should not bs joined to administrative powers. He contended that the cost would be greater than under the present Land Court. Further, .he held that charges should be made against any application before the Court, instead of making the cost general against the whole revenue of the Board. | Mr. Wi Pere advocated passing the Bill las it stood. Matters of detail and any I defects could be dealt with at a future time. The sale of Maori lands should be stopped, as only about a million acres of good land now remained in possession of the natives. Captain Russell complained that whatever views members held respecting the ! merits of the Bill, the time of its intro--1 duction was most inopportune. There was no true principle of legislation underlying , the Bill. He believed that until titles to I native lands were individualised there would | be no true material progress amongst the race. Under the Bill, the cost of the adI ministration of lands would be greatly ini creased. He contended that before a na-, | tive could alienate land by sale or lease, it j should be proved that he possessed not less I than 50 acres of first-class land, or 100 I second-class. He condemned the slow rate I of work done by the Native Land Court, . and thought the Courts should be increased iin number. He was extremely anxious I for the development of the natives, and he ' contended that the only way to do so was | to individualise the titles, and place re- | sponsibilities upon them, provided that due j regard was paid to seeing that natives were I not divested of all land, and thus become a charge upon the State. Mr. Carroll said where there was good land held by a small number of Maoris he approved of individualising the titles, as the land- could bear the cost, but where land was of poor quality, and held by a .large i number, it would mean ruin to such natives. The Board would stand in regard to land in a similar position as the Land Boards did with respect to the land under their control. There might be defects in the details of the Bill, but the principle was right, and he urged the House to combine to make it workable, and put it on the Statute Book, and thus satisfy the desire of the natives. He denied that the cost to natives under the Bill would be greater than at present. The House adjourned at half-past five p.m. The House met at half-past seven p.m., and continued the debate on t.he Maori Land Laws Amendment Bill. Mr. Stevens regretted that the Bill had not been brought down earlier, as it was one of the most- important dealt with this | session. The Native Land Court had deI generated, and he considered it a blot upon I the Legislature that a remedy had not been j provided years ago. A great wrong had : been inflicted upon the natives, and the Bill before the House would be the first step to provide a remedy. He advocated individualisation of titles as the most just means of raising the character of the natives. As long as nativet lived in a state of communism, so long would the evils of the present system be perpetuated. Mr. Kaihau was pleased and satisfied that the Bill had been brought down, and hoped the cordial support of all parties in the House would be given towards passing the measure. Objections had been raised by Mr. Heke as to the cost of administering land under the Bill, but he believed that it would be less than under the present system. Ho was not satisfied with every detail of the I Bill, but he was willing to accept even a ! small concession towards remedying the wrongs under which the natives suffer. Mr. Rolleston considered it impossible to get through the Bill this session. He defended the work done by the Native Land Courts, and contended that the Bill did not do away with these Courts. He believed the Bill to be the most subtle means of filching land from the natives that had yet been devised, and that the Boards proposed to be set up, would be merely political affairs and land jobbing concerns. The system proposed was a continuance of the Native Land Court in its worst form, as it would be dominated by the Government of the day. 1 It had been said that the individualisation of titles would be the salvation of the Maori, but he had strong doubts on that matter. He hoped the Government would take the debate on the second reading of the Bill, and relegate tie question to the electors, native and European. Mr. Brown, speaking of native reserves, said they were simply breeding grounds for noxious weeds and harbours for stray cattle. Natives did not settle down on their own sections, but camped together on unfenced and uncultivated areas. He was doubtful if [ the attempt made by the Bill to create a I class of native landlords was a wise one. Mr. G. Hutchison said the changes in the native land laws proposed by the Bill. were so drastic that the electors should, during the recess, have an opportunity of considering them. The proposed system of dealing with the land was worse than the Native Land Courts. The latter were not all that j could be desired, but their work was hampered and controlled by the Native Department. He believed in the hapus having control of native lands, leaving them to divide individual interests, which was uniformly done on a just basis. ilr. Duthie said it was due to the natives that F ™ 101 ; should be mado by allotting sufficient land to natives to support them i :','w

I and their families. In that respect he supported the Bill, but the proposal to set up a class of Maori landlords was a vicious one, and one that was not in the interests of the natives. Most of the land in possession of the natives was covered with bush. It was not to be expected that colonists would go to the expense and labour of clearing that land on short leases. It was impossible to get through 'the Bill this session unless the House sat another week or fortnight and stopped other legislation. Mr. McLean said the question was not a party one, and he would support the Government in their endeavour to place native land upon a proper footing. It was all very well to talk about individualising the titles to native lands, but there were small areas of land in which perhaps a hundred Maoris were interested, to individualise the titles to which would cost as much as the land was worth. If the natives desired the Bill he did not see why the House should refuse to pass it. Nothing could be more unsatisfactory than the present native land laws. Mr. Monk supported the Bill. Mr. Pirani said the Premier knew perfectly well that there was no hope that the Bill would pass this session, and he was only making a show in pursuance of a compact with the three native members who had kept the Government in power this session. A blot upon the Bill was handing native lands over to an irresponsible body of pakehas and Maoris. Their experience of native trustees was not such as to warrant the House in handing over lands to their control. The best thing to do with the Bill was to let it go into committee, and immediately after report progress. Mr. McGuire considered that it would be more in the interests of the natives to let the land be sold than to tie it up in perpetual lease.

The Premier said he was pleased at the tone of the debate, which was free from party feeling. As to charges that it was too late in the session to pass the Bill, he pointed out that it had passed the Native Committee, which was composed of experts, so that the House, if it were in earnest, need take but little time in dealing with it. The Government was being pressed on one hand by Europeans to throw open native land, and on the other by Maoris who wished to sell, and if that were done the ultimate result would be that natives would lose their land and the State would lie compelled to keep them. The whole principle of the Bill was to invest natives with a sense of responsibility in regard to dealing with land, instead of treating them like children. The motion to go into committee on the Bill was carried on the voices. Mr. Smith said the Maoris had not had an opportunity of considering the Bill, and as there was not the slightest chance of the Bill passing this session, lie moved to report progress. The Premier urged the House to proceed with the Bill in the interests of the natives. Mr. Heke thought that if the provision for the judical functions of the Council were taken out the Bill would have a short passage through committee. Mr. J. Allen considered the Bill should apply to the South as well as the North Island. The motion to report progress was carried by 26 votes to 24. POLICE PROVIDENT FUND. The Police Provident Fund Bill, which was laid aside at an earlier stage of the sitting as a protest against the amendments by the Council, was introduced bv Governor's message and passed through all stages. LOAN TO LOCAL BODIES. The Premier moved the second reading of the Government Loans to Local Bodies Bill. Clauses two and three, providing that a bare majority cany a proposal to raise a loan, and that each ratepayer have one vote only, caused some discussion and opposition. Left sitting at two a.m.