DEBATE ON THE BUDGET.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XXXVI, Issue 11149, 23 August 1899, Page 6

DEBATE ON THE BUDGET.

SPEECH BY MR. CROWTHER. [Br TELEGBAPH. — ASSOCIATION.] ■Wellington, Tuesday. Mr. Crowther, who was well received, commenced his observations on the Financial Statement, by stating that the present dobate and the debate that had gone before it would cost the country about £5000. A Member: " Where is the money to come from?" Mr. Crowther said he did not know where it was to come from, but they wore told that money was no object. Ho had been asking himself, and the country would ask, 'What were they going to get for it? The dobate was, in a very great measure, a waste of time. When it was over they would be just where they were at the beginning. Tho question was, which party had done tho most good, and which the most harm? If they could get someone to solve that point Hie discussion would have done some good. Mr. Crowther went on to defend Mr. Mitchelson, regarding certain statements made by Mr. Tanne.. Ho said Mr. Mitchelson was respected as much as anyone in that House, or who had over been in tho House. _ Then, there was tho Leader of the Opposition. No one was prepared to say that he had done anything of which he had reason to bo ashamed. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Crowther had a good deal of sympathy with what had been said by Mr. Joyce. That gentleman had gone as near to the Opposition as he could. If the Opposition got on the other side of tho House, Mr. Joyce would bo there, tooi (Laughter,) A Member: "He would not do that." Mr, Crowther: I believe ho would do that, and a great deal more. Wo are all creatures of circumstances, and those who boast the most are often the readiest to yield wlion the times comes." (Laughter.) Mr. Crowther went on to say that it was very pleasing to find that there was only one opinion as to tho advisability of making the North Island Main Trunk railway. He sincerely thanked members, especially members representing the South Island, for having made known their opinions on this question. They, in Auckland, could no longer bo of two opinions as to which route they must accept. There would nc longer be anj necessity for the member for Mnrsden to tell the people of Auckland that they did not know what they wanted. Mr. Thompson was out of his element when lie was speaking. He was so seldom in Auckland that he made himself beliove that tho people of Auckland did not know what they wanted. They did know what they wanted. They wonted a railway, but there wero two routes, both acceptable, and the only Question was which should bo made first. Mr. Thompson had told Mr. Bollard that he had not travelled enough, but trailing for the member for Marsdon was a now occupation, and a very pleasing occupation too. Mr. Thompson: "Hear, hear." Mr. Crowther: And tho dollars came out of the other fellow's pocket. (Laughter.) They all heard how well Mr. Thompson expressed the word " eviction." He was finding out how many of those poor Government settlers he would in the future have to evict. Mr. Bollard travelled round a groat deal, but he wanted to know before ho started on long iourneys who was going to pay the piper. He could not (rot the other fellow to pav. Mr. Crowther lioped that in future Mr. Thompson would speak more respectfully of the Auckland ■people. Ho (Mr. Crowtlmr) had great admiration for tho people of Auckland, and always felt, hound to work- in the interests of the peoplo round about Auckland, but this was no more his dutv than it was the duty for the mombor for Marsdon. Mr, Crowther went, on to say that speeches out ot the Year Book and newspaper clippings might interest the people who read Hansard, but they wero of no use when members wero speaking to one another. During the first two sessions of his Parliamentary eareei Mr. Crowther was strongly in favour of the elective Executive, and even on the last occasion tho Bill came up he voted for it, though lie was convinced it would come to nothing, as he had learned all about it. The member who had introduced tho Bill was prepared to sacrifice it for mrtv purposes, and until that gentleman (M°ior Steward) got more strength in his back, and resolved to carry it through, without consulting the Premier or anyone else, tho Bill would never pass. Ho would like to give the scheme a trial, as party government was such an expensive load for the country that the House would lie justified in making any chanfe that would not make matters worse. He also wonted to say a few words about- the boasted prosperity of the colonv. He had been looking for it. but had failed to find it. The records of the Post Office Savings Bank did not. show it. The first eight years of the bank's existence was better than any years of its life since. (Mr. iScobie Mackenzie: " Hear. hear. Quite true.") The workers were not in a better position now than during those first years; at anv rate, their money was not in the Savings Bant. Had the worl-ers tho money <o save' He had been told that men who could earn it were not allowed to earn it. and that it was becoming a habit for tradesmen to manufacture articles at homo and sell them lw auction. The conditions of labour and tin, rules of their societies, ho was told, did lint perm't men In earn as much as thov otherwise could. Mr. flmwtlier said the large number of borrowing Bills before Parliament was not a sign of prosperity. He might have missed some, but those which had come under his notice totted up to £635 POO.

A Member: "How much has Auckland got out of that?" Mr. Growth or M that had nothing at all to do with it. Auckland had got nothing vet. Whatever Auel-lind rot. it would have to pav interest on. He was sorry Auckland was asking for so much, and was sorry so many other local Wins were in the same fix. lint those who had to pnv were beginning to ohjcct was shown by (lie recent noil in Wellington, when flip borrowing proposals were rejected bv 1000 r. 1700. Tf the Post Office Savings Bank row! the same rate of interest as the Auckland Savings Bank. 3? per cent., instead of 7, ner cent., the depositors would get £16, more thn«, they now get. _ Tt was time the Post Office Ravines Bank paid_ the same rate 31 could bo eot fmm a private institution. Rome members talked about borrowing millions, as thoim-h it was a very little matter, but when the mo to pav arrived the pinoh would be fait, He was clad to see that, the opinion in favour of the freehold was growing in t'w House, Turning to the railway nnestion. Mr. Crowflier said that if the bridges, rolling-stock, and the norirmnent way had been kent ill good order. Urn Mini?'"r would never'have shown a surplus of £10.000, In place of showing that surplus the Minister should have spent that monev, instnnd of nontinunllv borrowing money for bridges, rolling-stock, and other necessary work. Tf it were not for this over-estimating and under-snending. nothing would have been heard of '.he surplus. Mr. Tanner had said there was nothing new to be said, but Mi. Crowther felt, sure the Premier would five them something new when he replied. The Premier would stamo— Mr. Tanner: "That will be nothing now."

Mr. Crnwtber pairl the Premier would ramp about. He fannied he could see the sparks flving out of the Premier's eyes, just as they did when be was replying on a former occasion. It would be nothing new, but it would be new when compared with what other member!, had been saying. And Mr. Seddon would be heart-broken as on the other occasion when he sat down. (Laughter.) Mr. Ciowther, in conclusion, referred to certain criticism regarding two female figures placed at the foot of the staircase in the entrance lobby for ornamental purposes. He said the member for Taranaki, who had called attention to those figures, was evidently not a high art soholar. (Laughter.) He did not understand nature unadorned. If he (Mr. Brown) wanted a lesson—(cries of "oh!")— unveiled innocence, let him go to the Minister for Public Works. He fancied the emblems were intended to indicate to the ladies going up into the gallery what a very good time Eve had in the Garden when the apples were getting ripe. He had no doubt, the Minister for Public Works had exercised his hight art in selecting the emblem, but he (Mr. Crowther) agreed with Mr. Monk when he said that local productions could have been obtained which would have been more suitable.

MR. HERE'S SPEECH. In the course of his speech on the Financial Statement, Mr. Hone Heke said he desired to refer to certain remarks whiah had been made about his absence from Parliament. The cause of : his absence last year was of great importance to the welfare of the colony as a whole.. He was in Wellington at the time the trouble commenced, and was informed of ; what had occurred I by the Pre- , miftt Qfl'd the Colonial Secretary, Mr, Heke

prooeeded to explain, the Hokianga trouble at great length, and pointed out that even after a settlement had been arrived at, it was necessary to wait and watch the result of the settlement. It was not for him to speak of what he himself had done to settle the difficulty, but if any member desired to obtain an unbiassed report of the whole affair, he would refer them to Messrs. Theo. Cooper and F. Earle, who were in the confidence of the natives. Mr. Heke went on to explain how the trouble changed from passive to active resistance to the law. No one deserved more credit in pacifying the natives on their arrival at Rawene than Mr. Robert Cochrane. He admitted that the Rev. Mr. dittos had helped, but above all others Mr. Cochrane was entitled to special consideration. Whatever part ho (Mr. Heko) had taken in the matter, he could not refrain from saying a perfcct settlement, Buoh as they now had, could not have been brought about, but for the aid the Government gave through tho Premier. Mr. Heko went on to deal with the cause of his absence during the present session. The causo was r. native trouble, arising out of a survey applied for by some natives, regarding some land not far from Whangarei. The parties concerned had met before on a similar question. In 1888 these two hapus had a dispute over gum land, and both took up arms, with the result that eight persons were killed. It was tho same people that had to bo dealt with this year, and the trouble of 1888 was likely to be repeated. The membor for the Bay of Islands had stated that his (Mr. Hoke's) presence in the district was more dangerous than bis absence. He did not know whether Mr. Houston was in earnest, but what ho said was quite incorrect. Tho chiefs looked to him to be present, for tlio purpose of bringing about a settlement. ("Hear, hear.") ' Some of the statements that had been made were very serious. One might say he could be charged with treasonable conduct, and with fostering trouble by calling secret meetings. Last year, in the Hokianga trouble, he had called meetings, and at one of them tho Rev. Mr. Hammond was present. Ho (Mr. Heko) did not know whether the same oharges also applied to Mr. Hammond. On anothei occasion tho same gentleman was also present, and all their efforts wore directed to instilling confidence, and urging tho natives to obey the laws. In the second trouble a satisfactory settlement had also been secured, but natives wore not like Europeans, and even after an agreement had been arrived at it was necessary to wait and talk the matter over. He gave tho Government credit for their assistance. Ho empirically denied that ho desired to create trouble. Ever since the agreement between Hono Heko and Sir George Grey, in 1846, none of Hoke's descendants had opposed the laws. (Hoar, hear.) No one could point to one instance. The roverso had hcon the case. As long as ho lived he would use hib influence in promoting law and order. Had bo stayed away on tho last occasion soldiers would have had to bo sent, and the colony put to unnecessary expense. Of course, it was right to send soldiers to maintain the law, but it was bettor to scttlo these troublos at their beginning. Two perfect settlements had boon brought about with tho liolp of the Govornmont. If the same courso had been followed in tho early days a great deal of trouble would have been averted. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Hoke dealt at some length with the question of the education of tho natives, and tho native land problem. Ho said, if the natives wore allowed the samo freedom in dealing with their lands as Europeans had, they would endeavour to put them to tho best possible use. On resuming his seat Mr. Heko was heartily applauded.