CEMETERY BY-LAWS.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XXX, Issue 9186, 28 April 1893, Page 6

CEMETERY BY-LAWS.

DISCUSSION AT THE CITY COUNCIL.

PROTEST OF THE MINISTERS' ASSOCIATION.

STRONG INDICTMENT BY MR. GARRATT.

At yesterday's meeting of the Auckland City Council the Revs. Guy, Blaikie, and Macnicol attended asa deputation from the Ministers' Association, and the Rev. Mr. Thomas from the Congregational Union of New Zealand, to protestagainst the amended Cemetery by-laws. The Congregational Union also sent a letter, which " protested against a higher charge being made for the burials of members of some religious denominations than was made for the burials of members of others." The extra charge, the letter went on, was with a view to provide a ministers' fee ; the members of the Congregational body wore always ready to attend such funerals when thoy wero asked.

The Rev. James Guy said that some months ago Mr. Garratt had waited upon the Ministers' Association, and reported that a number of funerals had taken place at VVaikomiti without any religious rites. This he considered a condition of things which called for remedy. The remedy he (Mr. Garratt) suggested was this, he thought the Council could be got to vote a sum to meet the expenses of a chaplain in the case of all Charitable Aid funerals, or funerals not provided for, if the Protestant Churches could agree amongst themselves upon some clergyman to act for them. The sum of £60 was mentioned as a probable amount. The Ministers' Association, after consideration, appointed a deputation to interview Bishop Cowio, in order to ascertain if ho would be willing for an arrangement of the kind to be made. The Bishop approved of the idea, provided chat in the case of all Anglican funerals tho chaplain would read the Anglican service, lie (Bishop Cowio) knew of no minister of his own Church free to accept the position ; but tho names of Revs. VVorboys and Perry, of Avondalo, were submitted to him, and of these he personally approved. And there the matter was allowed to rest. Tho two points of Mr. Garratt's suggestion which Mr. Guy wished to make clear were : (1) The finding of the money by the Council; (2) tho Protestant Churches agreeing among themselves to appoint the chaplain. The proposed amended by-law No. 3, made provision that the Council should provide a chaplain or chaplains, j To this, the Ministers' Association objected, as contrary to the understanding they had when they first entered into correspondence with tho other Churches upon this point. To them it seemed highly undesirable that the Council should interfere in religious matters at all. The Churches might bo safely left to do their work, and to bear their responsibility in appointing chaplains to conduct religious services for tho dead. Objection was taken in tho next place to the proposed method of raising chaplain's fees. By law No. 5 made religious distinctions which were invidious. He (Mr. Guy) spoke for himself. The Primitive Methodist ministry of every church were prepared to bury all Primitive Methodists. The real difficulty, they knew, was with those who belonged to no Church. If provision was to be made for the burial of these, then all Churches should share alike. They were aware that the fees had not been increased for adults in the case of the Protestant Christian burials, but they pointed out the manifest unfairness of reducing them in the case of Roman Catholic and Jewish funerals. It seemed that the most equitable way of providing chaplain's expenses would be by placing the sum upon the estimates. The whole community could then bear the burden, and not those who had beon unfortunate enough to lose a relation by death, and who, in most cases, would have a costly bill of doctor's expenses to pay. The Rev. Mr. Macnicol said personally he felt the ground had been changed somewhat in regard "to the matter since Mr. Garratt had brought it under the notice of the Ministers' Association. When the point was first discussed, it seemed that tho chaplain was bo have a subsidy from the City Council. That arrangement would be acceptable to the Association. For his (tho speaker's) part he deprecated levying a tax upon any portion of the community to pay for a chaplain. If a subsidy could be given out of tho revenue of the cemetery, well and good, but to tax the people personally for tho burial of their dead was not advisable. (Hear, hear.) Ho had been 24 years in the city as minister, and had never refused to officiate. In one year he had attended 52 funerals, end only five had been of people from his congregation. The Rev. Mr. Thomas protested against any discrimination being made between Jews, Roman Catholics, and Un-Episcopa-lian Protestants. The Anglicans had a cemetery of their own, but higher charges were to be made in the case of Un-Epis-copaiians than with tho others he had named.

The Mayor said the deputation might withdraw if they chose. The Council would consider their representations. Mr. Garratt hoped they would stay, as he had some very unpleasant things to say. He would prefer saying them in their presence. As to the action he had taken in the matter ho gave an unqualified denial to any statement that ho had done aught but what he had been requested to do by his brother Councillors. Ho had flattered himself if he could perform the work ho had undertaken he would be doing a good thing for the people of Auckland and those who wero unfortunate enough to lose their relations. In trying to arrange matters he had soon Bishop Cowie, who sympathised with him in tho getting of a chaplain, bub who did not see his way clear at that moment for making any workablo arrangement for the appointment of a chaplain. Ho hoped, however, the proposal might bo carried out. He (Mr. Garratt) had then interviewed the' Ministers' Association, the Rev. Mr Guy being tho only minister present, who was now ab the meeting, and '■ strange to say, he had had the audacity to come to the meeting and state that the by-laws had been diverted from his (the speaker's) proposal. He (Mr. Garratt) said distinctly they had nob been diverted. Passing on, Mr. Garratt said it was not alone paupers that suffered. He did not like that objectionable term, bub that was the word used in the Association. Bub ho had ladies and gentlemen present in the room who could not have any officiating ministers at the graves of their relatives. One gentleman in the room was willing to testify that he went to the Rev. Mr. Ward, Mr. Guy's predecessor, who referred him to Mr. Gilmore, who referred him to Mr. Robertson, who was out. The consequence of that was that the bereaved parents were standing with the hearse at tho door for 2| hours. They waited in vain, and the bereaved father had himself to officiate at Waikomiti. And after that for ministers to ask if they had failed ? That, however, was not a solitary case. Another gontleman was in the room who could corroborate what he (the speaker) said. Further, there was a lady present who lost her sister, and could nob gob a minister to attend. That lady was now a member of the Rev. Mr. Thomas' own congregation. Were not those facts an answer to what had been said There was yet another lady present who could nob get a minister to bury her child ; they could only gob Mr. MoPherson, the City Missionary, who officiated in the parents' house. Mr. Guy had said that lie had advocated that funerals should be conducted by the Board. He had certainly said nothing of tho sort. As far as ho was concerned ho did not care whether the ministers officiated over him one job. He did not think enough of them for that. As a rule ministers wore prepared to protest against anything; it did not matter whether it was a lock hospital, a public | convenience, or the Art Gallery, tho ministers were against it One of the Deputation : Shame. Mr. Garratt : It is true. Tho Mayor: You must keep to rh' subject. ; Mr Garratt, continuing, said it wastrange that ministers should iiw proles. against a chaplain, as they had written to him saying they agreed. It made his blood boil to so find there was not a sense of honour amongst them. if they had changed their I front surely the Ministers' Association j could have notified him of it. Mr. Garratt ! then read letters from the Association in support of his contention that the Association had agreed to the appointment of a chaplain. What was now proposed was no now departure. He would say distinctly,

and was prepared bo prove it, that in respecb for the dead the Ministers' Association fell far short of their duty. As to distinction in charges, he had receipts showing that in the Anglican burying ground, 10s was paid to the minister, the same as was proposed to be charged at VVaikoraiti. fie had been foolish enough bo believe that the Ministers' Association had meant what they said ; Mr. Worboys and Mr. Perry had b«en nominated by them, Bishop Cowie had accepted them to read the Anglican service over Anglicans. Yet they complained of him, and now protested. Ministers had said they wore always ready to officiate. Was it not strange, then, that one of thorn should keep a cab at Ins door ten minutes after the time fixed for a funeral, and then say he was indisposed. That statement he could prove. The amended bylaws, simply remedied that by seeing a responsible man was appointed to officiate. Some people could not understand that ministers had declined to officiate. Nevertheless it was a fact, and he was prepared to prove it. No less than eight funerals had taken place since the Bth of the present month, at which no minister officiated. And yet they were asked had the ministers failed ? He had soon, too often, children kneel by an open grave, and not a minister there. And thpn to say that was Christianity and religion. If it was so, he did not want it. Mr. Macnicol had said ho would approve of a chaplain if he was selected by a Ministers' Association. With that ho (the speaker) quite agreod. If no one was wanted to officiate, let them be honest and say " away with the clergy ; we do not need them ; it is a mockery and delusion." But would that satisfy boreavod families or roaliso expectations of what was seeming and respectable to the memory of the dead? It would not. Then all should unite bo bring about a better state of things than existed at present. He moved that the amended bylaws be agreed to. . /' No one seconded, and The Mayor said the mobion would therefore lapse The Rev. Mr. Guy asked leave to reply to Mr. Garratt. The Mayor said the motion nob having been seconded, discussion was nob necessary. Mr. Farrell moved, " Thab Mr. Gay reply to the serious accusations made." Mr. Tbknwitii seconded. Mr. Uarratt supported the proposition on condition that ho was allowed the right of reply. The Mayor ruled thab the business was finished, and thab therefore discussion would be out of order, (Hear, hear.)