MINISTER FOR LANDS.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XXVIII, Issue 8582, 2 June 1891, Page 5

MINISTER FOR LANDS.

IHE HOS. J. McKENZIE AI PALMERSTON SOUTH. IMPORTANT SPEECH. THE POLICY OFTfHE GOVERNMENT. ADMINISTRATION Of THE LANDS DEPARTMENT.

REPLY TO HOSTILE CRITICS. [by 4 tkleghuph. —own correspondent. ] Palmebstox, Monday. The Town Hall to-night was filled to overflowing to listen to the speech delivered by the Minister of Lands. There was not even standing room available, hit. JVC Scott, the Mayor of Palinei-stoD, occupied the chair, and briefly in a neat, speech introduced the

speaker. The Hon. Mr. McKexzie, who on rising was greeted with storms of applause, said that when last he appealed Before them he

was a candidate for their suffrages as their representative in v the ■ Parliament of New Zealand. • They had-done him t'be honor on i' that occasion of returning him as'their repress sentative. He asked now to be allowed to take the first opportunity in public of returning his thanks for the honour they had done '. v . him on that occasion. He deemed it his duty to appear before them that evening td give an account of his stewardship. ;j The . position ho had ■ held when he last appeared |jf; ~: before them was now materially altered. He

■ m wile moil Hiiuiny, a, candidate ior tneir sutfrages; ho now appeared as their elected member, and also us a Minister of the* Crown. They were , aware , that during the , period of twenty years lie had occupied the position of i a public man in their' midst lie hud never Been afraid to meet his constituents face to" ( face, and showing in j what; manner he had* tised the ".trust they had' reposed in him. (Applause.) He was there, therefore, that nij;l).t to give : to •;■. them an 'account; of his ! stewardship, as their .representative, and to explain to them the political and administrative actions of the Ministry of which he had the honour to be a member. TUB CHARGES AGAINST TIIE MINISTRY ', AND '■'■: •HIMSELF. * He also sought that opportunity of referring; to the charges which had been made against the Government of the:day as iv : . whole-and against himself personally. This portion of his programme, so far as ho was individually concerned, : would - have [ been quite'■ - unnecessary in 'i, Palmers ton, where he had ; been so well known for the last quarter of r a century to a largo number of the people, and , had ho been holding the posi* lion only of a private member of the House ho did not think it, would be necessary for . him" to trouble them that evening. (Applause.) But; aS ?ft Minister *of the Crown,'■ being looked Upon as a representative of the whole oolony,. in portions of .which he was not known personally, the case was different. As they were aware, the colony of New Zee,land in December last,'declared at the polls that id had no confidence in the Atkinson Ministry, and that; on the meeting of the House they tendered their resignation, and the present Premier was sent ; for and asked to foi-in a Government. ; They would recollect '*. that it-,,had, been stud-by the Conservative press throughout the colony on that occasion that it would be . impossible to 3 form a Ministry out of the -party following "Mr, Ballance i; the House, and that it had been a matter of great astonishment to a number lof 'people \ that the ■ Ballancc Ministry had been so quickly formed. They . had also been told that if a Government was fort ied by. the party then in opposition, and led by Ml*. , Baliaiice,'the country would go to ruin. The' Conservative Press throughout ; tho colony had been anxious to make the people believe ) that \if the ; present Government got'ihto office their policy would •■ be ; one of; reckless: expenditure and extra gance. So much was thin the case that they had at first been referred to aa tUe " scattereast "Government. ' * Ttit; two sessions. ' '• Now, one of the first things they had been accused of oh-taking- office was, that they- , kid been tun ctw&a.oltlieM)?o sessions, in oho. ye&vv. He- would ask them to consider for one moment who were really responsible for. :. cftliing the House. together in January last. I Ihai previous Government knew perfectly well .they were in the minority, and if ■ they- hud not thought so, there was ; no necessity for; their immediate resignation when. the House ; met. «■- Why did i they not : resign immediately on the result of the elec- ;: tidfirbeing made known and the feelings of i ■ the countay ? The reason we all know. f They wanted to put a number of their old political friends into th«J Upper House, and to accomy plish that it had been necessary -i for them to make believe that they were still, in power.*; K.i sooner nn/1 they completed the task of putting a number of members into the i Legislative. Council than , they met i the House with their resignations in the hands of the Governor, and the Government of which he was a member had to put words 'into His Excelloncy'e mouth in the shape of the speech from the throne to. show good rerson why the House had been, called together. V: Well, then, they had been told" that they ought to have t adjourned the House for *ttv fortnight, and to have gone on .with the business of the country. They were to have no recess, and , were expected in a fortnight to bring: down a policy and carry on the administra- ; tion of the country. They (the Ministry) ; however thought differently. They thought . that if they were to put the real position of . the country in its proper light it would be absolutely imperative that they should have : some time to look into the affairs of the ; colony.nndto make ; themselves : acquainted ' with the various parts of the country and tlie various ramifications of the Government in all its-partSj-consequently they asked His . Excellency to prorogue the House ; instead 6t adjourning t it. ,-They could not have asked the Upper House to adjourn, and it was just possible that even they did so that body , , would have taken, no notice of i theJ!:;de3ire;; 1 hey were not going to stand iii the humiliating position of .being placed at their inisrey. .Uiatthe Upper House was hostile to them (the Ministry) there could be no two opinions," as it was a well-known fact that it had been' only with the greatest difficulty that they • were able to get two members in that House, one to propose and tho other to second tho Address-in-Reply to *. His % Excellency's Address. , He (McKenzie) now, after four' i months' recess, ventured to say that the country • would; be Satisfied they had i taken , ; the right course, as it had enabled them to 1 ■ get a grasp of the whole of the affairs of tho ; colony, and; they were now in a position to meet the House with proposals which would, i he felt sure, meet with the, support of the i- ■ . House and the country. WHAT TUB GOVERNMENT lIAVE DONE. i" Before he proceeded to give an outline of I what that policy was, he would refer briefly to what they had dono.since they took office. ! ; immediately on going into office each member ' : tne Government wont carefully into the ' L a,r ?., of his department. Those of them, ho, like himseli, had departments in varif?us portions of the colony, made -visits of . inspection to as many of those places as they ..--. possibly could, with the result that they v met together in Wellington as a Government m labmet, and came to the conclusion < Mat a very large amount -of retrench- , ment could be made in the public service without impairing its efficiency. They were aware what odium tho actions of the Ministry ; , !?. tna * direction had i. brought upon them .-.-: through the medium of tho Conservative pressor the colony, which on their assuming . office accused them of • being tho " Scattci" <-ash Government." > Odium» ; was f alao c;ist opon them by those whom they had unfortn- ' ' nateiy had to dispense with, and their various v •rifitids 'throughout the " colony.« They had anring the four months they had been in - omee reduced the public expenditure of the colony by between £50,000 and £GO,OOO-(Ap-i> piiiiise), and the public service, he ventured ™«iiy,was being carried on at the -presentmoment just as ! well as 'it was on the day '%. took office. A great (leal had been said in the press of the colony with regard to - faction* of the Government in that matter. Aney had been accused of doing, , injustice to tniaonc and tothatone, of dispensing with oflite|S^".o sf \Services could not be done without, *"« of inflicting punishment and acting in a* -Mi Wanner to those whose services ■ had dispensed with. They had also been w<l by a section of the press throughout the I , Qo J"ay that Ministers were conducting theml ; f* lve ß without any reference to the! t\ coli '■'* «iiT U ? a " " 0CO!ll d assure his hearers that I in./' —' not been the case, and that in every '"stance of retrenchment the matter had been •abmittea and agreed to by the Government r? whole before 'action was taken iby the ir''" ster in v.-hose department the : retrench- '•«;« was contemplated,Vuiidf as for the ' • awl ♦i- cruelty or ; injustice and turning li.Vf, 1<! - U ' beMt servants the Government and ilr imosfc to retain their most able '2 - tl, '• .'{serving men (as it was obviously in " ■' thfti' n i rests to do fl°)< ami' todispfenao with ' • iose whose eervicos were of ;; the I least value Hit r e 01 ' ,0 ' lUid C0,lI(1 hmt - bo spared from' ,■ -,{?« PUbhc service. .'As he had stated before. : , ,--.| M ;i nr 7 ,roVfcr ,«»>ent of the country-was now iBo th car u 1 on J' ,c "°« efficiently, if not more > " an the day on which they went into oliicc.

life wotild ask fche.ii net to believe the stories they saw circulated in the Frtas with regard 10 the reaStttiS for dispensing with this i man and that man, , of the other man, in his own department. .When the proper time came Le ftriuld give a good account to Parliament, to which ) he wasi responsible, for every case of retrenchment that had taken place in his department,' and ihe was ; quite satisfied that every other Minister could do the same. . TUB RETRENCHMENT POLICY". ! As they must all be aware, retrenchment was ! a very unpleasant duty to have to perform. He had had ample experience of itdp.ring the last two or three months, andit was an operation ho would notag&in like to have to assist in. It was, .however, their opinion as a Government that it was absolutely necessary, in the best interests of the colony, and of the civil servants themselves as ; a body (which they had found greatly overgrown), the members should be reduced to something like a , reasonable staff to ; carry on the affairs of the colony. He could not go' into all the details that night, but he wished to tell them this, that in every single case there were very jjbod reasons for ; their economical actions. When they saw it fcated that the Government had crippled the <:ivil service by reducing its numbers to; less [ than wiis necessary to carry on the. Government of the country he asked them to believe \ him when !he emphatically denied that such .was the case.- The Officers who were still in ; the service, now the excrescences had been cut off, knew their own position had been made more secure than it was before, because they must be aware that : the departments •were formerly overmanned. They were aware that immediately on , the House , meeting the Ministry/tooiild be attacked on its' retrench:ment policy. Well, they Were prepared to meet ■ any attack in that direction, and if ■ ■'■■ they were ■'•' defeated;: the' electors of i Waitaki; and other electors; throughout the colony;; would have , ; a Voice in the matter before it , Was finally settled. He and' his colleagues believed they were right. 5 They believed the colony was with them, and they wefe prepared to Stand, or fall by their actions and by, what the people of tlie colony would decide at the ballot box. • '■ ': ' A POLICY OF NO BORROWING. The policy of the Government, so far as he-was able to announce it to them therb that evenine—and they would understand that he was notable to ; speak so freely as he would did he not occupy»the position of a Minister of the Crown—-iu tjie first place was n policy of no borrowing." :,* They had come'to tho conclusion that the time had arrived when in- the best ; . interests of the people of , the colony they should 'be asked to cease borrowing, to live within their : means, and to rely :on u their own resourcos. \i They (the Government) •> believed . that iif i such a ' policy were j carried • out' for a few - years they would have such confidence restored in the colony as i would .;brim? j about 'progress and prosperity throughout New: Zealand. They believed that they had been living long enough and too long on borrowed money. No doubt it was a difficult matter to tell districts and towns that they would have to j do With less ; expenditure, and consequently i withfewor luxuries and be more economical j than they had been in the past; 3 It was very easy to j be extra vacant;while they; had the ■ means, and no doubt .very pleasant for a Government while in office, but it was not so easy to economise and to reduce expenditure. In i fact>; the Government -had' come to the conclusion-that the time had nearly arrived when instead of borrowing the country should begin to think about ? reducing its indebtedness, and ho hoped the time was hot far distant when they would bo able to submit proposals ; which Would enable them to do so^ 1 |:;S^"i-;i (n THE POSTAL RATES. ■-' '-'• They had decided, as he had no doubt his hearers were already aware, to submit a pro-, posal to Parliament to reduce.", the postal rates throughout the colony to one-half what they are at the present time. ! ;, people might think ? they j had .been .premature r< in briuging down proposals for a penny postage, but if they, looked . around; them and further afield they would see what was going on in other parts of the world." * The postages between JNew Zealand "and Europe would be reduced to per letter—the rate to Great Britain ; being i already reduced to , 2Jd—and the .Govcriiniunb"; knew that . the ; ponny • post question would be forced upon them in New Zealand ; whether they liked.; it or not, and. they considered ■■ the present time the most favourable to make the change. (Applause.) They had a surplus of revenue wbi;li would enable them to do so. They knew, that they Were taking more out of , the pockets of the people of the colony for J postage than was necessary to carry on the service ; they had, j therefore, determined to ; reduce the postage rates throughout the colony, which reduction of t taxation would bo 'i shared by the whole population of the colony, ': Tho Government believed that i, its, action iu :g reducing ; the postal rates would Jbe approved; by colonist* of New Zealand as a whole. ; THE INCIDENCE OP TAXATION*. They also proposed to submit to Parliament during the coming session a- scheme SJfor" the alteration : «of \, the '£ incidence , of taxation, so • as . to ■ equalise the burden - of taxation jby reduciug that '•' now borne* ''- by the bona fide settler, the industrious classes, the masses of the people. Ho could not possibly * give V them i the details of the measure jufltthen, as they had first to be submitted to Parliament. : He assured them the measure had: Deen carefully considered in "i all its details, and on | its % being eventually ; submitted to the House and to the people of ■ the colony he had no hesitation in saying, on behalf of i every member, of the Cabinet, that they ; hoped these proposals would meet with .the general approval of the people. - TUB GOVERNMENT MEASURES. ■ Time would not allow- him to go into all the measures the Government intended •; to propose to Parliament when *it meets, but they would introduce f> a mirnbcr ;of measures which they considered sto be in the interests of the colony. One of . them would be a reform of the Uppor House, limiting s the ; time at which • members of that : body could retain their scats". Whether they would be able to carry such: a measure or hot was doubtful. He had no doubt it would be jarried in the Lower House, but he was not 30 sure about the Legislative Council. How?ver, they intended to make an honest. enieavour to have it passed, v The Government would also introduce a Bill dealing with the electoral laws of ; the colony. :Tlio object of this Bill would be to ': consolidate . all ■ the present laws' in existence .: in connection with their electoral ' rights, .making;: at the ■;'; same ; time " such •; amendments "i as >.had been found necessary. ; They all looked upon the electoral laws as their,, charter of •. rights,', and the aim of Government would; bo to maintain those rights in their entirety. Amendments were proposed, with the view of purifying the rolls. i; It was a well-known fact : to anyone who would look into those rolls that there were there a largo number of, names: which should not: be there at all. Even j their own ; electoral roll for that J dis-' trict contained the names of a large number of/ people who had been dead foi*= years or who > had left the district, f and had lost the qualification. The Government proposal would be to strike off the rolls after' a general election the names of those who would not exercise their vote. - Thus by one stroke they would purge the roll of all the names of those who were not entitled to be there. n. If by any misfortune, such as sickness or absence from the district, a person had been prevented from votinghe could, immediately alter the roll was purified, have his ; name re-entered, and that, ho % (Mr. McKenzie) thought, would ; bo an effectual cure for the - present ; evil. ; There were three provisions which would bo submitted to Parliament, all going in the direction of securing to every man in the colony the right to vote on the day of an election, and, as they would soon have the proposals before t them, they would see for themselves that they were of a Liberal character. : It was also proposed to submit to Parliament measures dealing with tho question oi : labour and capital, which, they hoped, would prevent any undue clashing of those tv/o great interests. "i These would not be of -a revolutionary character, neither would they contain any fireworks, but ,; they would be such as they hoped would meet with the approval of both the labour classes and the capitalists who employed labour, and it was hoped that, while preserving the rights of labour; they Would give fair play too capital. ; (Applause.) "., ' THE LAUD BILL. ' Another measure of great importance which it was it tended: to Submit,to Parliament was tlie Liriid Bill, j Before referring to that Bill ho would like ito J put : hinisolf light ; with the people of the colony as* to : his views on ; the land system, \ Ho had been accused continually by the Conservative press of endeavouring to prevent anyone from becoming a freeholder, jHo had no mich intention, lie had never lost an opportunity of eaying 'j so when Breaking on the land question, but what he did say, and what lie was going to say , again that night, > and was : prepared to stand by, was if the Government was ; going to givo special inducements to people to settle upon the land they should see that they got bona Jute: settlement. -/■:, They could not possibly shut their eyes to the fact that in the past there ■■ had been a great deal of speculation with thiise special settlement*, people; forming themselves into associations and taking up the laud for settlement on special conditions iVs<l never doing anything; to the land, I but retaining it until ouch time us they could dispose! of it at a profit. He ! Iliad also been accused of taking away from ithe } people of the colony rights; which had been granted them by his predecessors in oifice. Ho had seen* it ; .stated ; by ?v the vConservative press that he (Mr. Mackenzie) had amended the regulations a made by :; - the . Hon. Mr. Richardson, the late Minister of 'Lands. Now the fact . was vMr.-'Richardson ;' never j made any. -Vi The special settlement regulations which ho (the speaker): had amended, I •and which were now in existence," were first!

Nade t by the Hon. Mr. Ballance, the present Premier of the colony, in J 838/ under secjioiißl62and 103 of the Land Act, 1885, Mr. Ballance's own Act. Mr. Ballance created a mmber of special settlements under those •egulations, but Mr. Richardson did not own a single settlement under them. It woa ;rite he (Mr. Richardson) had carried ou ionie negotiations that were pending for the settlement of hlocka when lie tcok office, bul ie himself had not created a single specia settlement under theao regulations. Whet he (Mr. McKenzie) came into office thej were a dead letter.- He. however, immo .liately took the regulations in hand tine \mended them, both the village settlemeni uid the farm homestead regulations:he village settlement regulations to meel »he demands of the people who hat :ittle-or j no capital at all, with the hope ;nat a little encouragement might induc< shein to leave town, and become tisefu iettlers. The Farm Homestead regulation. , ivero amended to meet the requirements o people who had a little capital bnt not suffi stent to become freeholders, and under thos< regulations he had provided that the land; mould be taken up on the perpetual least system; On the other hand, the Hon. Mr Richardson's amendment of the Land Act o i887,_ Mr. BallaiflSc'a homestead settlers, wai the right to purchase, and it was the means o opening wide the door for speculation. Then :an be no doubt of that being the fact,; as hi ;ould prove from returns in his poasessiof \nd the possession of thn department ii Wellington, jn connection with these speoia settlements; therefore to prevent furthei 3pecnlaMon, and to retain the freehold ir the hands of the Crown, he had deter mined only to provide for perpettia leases. The village settlers had never beei nanted th-3 right to acquire freehold, anc fie attributed to this riile the faot tha' xt the present moment so many of thesi people were still retaining possession of th< land. Ho had noticed in his travels ihrongl these village settlements that very large pro ;res3 had been made, and that in many case; people who were destitute when they firs went on their village allotments were now ii a. fnirly comfortable position. They made n< complaint that the right to acquire the free bold was denied them, the only complaint o: fche > kind came from older people in th( different districts, who were inclined to bttj up the village settlement allotments, and wh< were very much disappointed that they couk not do so. The farm homestead specia settlements, on the other hand, are in manj pases a wilderness, and the process of creat ing largo estates put of them is going on 'ex tensively. He himself had seen one propertj if over 2000 acres created out of one of thea< settlements. He had gone round it himself Applause.) Now, speaking of the land law n general, ho had predicted in 1887 A'hen speaking on the second reading oi :he Hon. Mr. Richardson's Land Bill ;hat the door would be opened wid< ;o speculation, to dummyism, and all sorte o', 'raud,. including false declaration, in connee :ion with our land laws. He was pooh loohed at the time for doing so, but h< ;hought the time had now arrived when th< jeople could seo what the great evils of thai measure had been. The necessity for at unendmeat of the land laws was recognised lot only by himself, but also by his pie iecessor, and every right-thinking man in th< :olony. Then, if they were going to amenc the land laws, and take a new "departure :hcy should certainly try to avoid the errors >f the past.' Going over the whole colony of New Zealand, any one who does so must je struck with the immense estates he would meet with in every portion of the colony. He had recently travelled through the Hawke's Bay district, where these large estates dominated. He had driven 10 miles shfongh one estate, Comprising the iiloei jenntifal land, without oyer seeing the amok< n a house or meeting a single individual, ant ihat was only one of a great many mor< >t the same sort. They were- told thai ;here were 47 people owning three millior icres of land, and he asked them if it was possible for* this colony to prosper undei such circumstances ? Ho had had a retitrr prepared by Mr. Smith, the Surveyor-Genera >f the colony, and the head of the Lauds Department, which showed that they hac ;>hly 2,500,000 acres of Crown landsuitablt "or settlement (first and second-class land eft. He also'had another roturn showinj ;hat during the last three years the colonj iad disposed of, under cash, deferred pay nent and perpetual lease conditions, and fol ifnftll grazing runs, rural land to the cxtenl )f 1,325,842 acres, or very nearly one-half ol ,vhat was now left If they continued th< same process for six yeare longer the wholt >f our land would be gone fr,om its forever, Che colony had, as they were aware from th{ ast census returns, lost a large number of its jopulation. Not only had it lostanumbet jqual to the number of immigrants who came :o tho colony, but ifc had al«o lost; 20,000 of its latural increase. What did this mean? Ii neant that we had reared and educated 20,000 people in INew Zealand to send'them iway elsewhere. Was it not, then, our duty tc stem that fatal tide, and was it not also as jreat a duty to carefully husband the 2,800,00 C ■icres of land we have left, and secure at any rate, that no further large estates would be created out of that area ? Hejproposed, therefore, in the measure which he would submit to Parliament in the forthcoming session, to provide for a bona Mt settlement. He was quite prepared to give any person who said they wanted a, freehold pure and simple, the right to acquire a certain area of land, but only on condition that such land Was improved, and not held foi-'speculative pur poses. This then vrould give an opportunity of acquiring a freehold to those who wishei' to do so, hut the area wonld be cnrtailed though it would be such an area as would enable ft family to live in comfort and plenty He also iutended to continue the deferret payment system on condition of residenc< only. This would be another opportunity given to those who were desirous of obtain ing a freehold, and were unable through in sufficient means to purchase the title righ' out, but as he said before, tliey woult be compelled to settle upon and im prove the land. He also proposed to provid< perpetual lease for those who wished to hav( land oh that system, and the terms would b< such as he hoped would be most popular but the terms would be perpetual lease only bo they would see that he provided for th( moneyed man to get his freehold if he st pleased. The men who eventually wished tc oocome a freeholder could also do' ao, and the man who would content himself witli perpetual lease would, in his (Mr. MeKenzie's' opinion, be in possession of quite a3 good ii temu-e ns any other in existence The small grazing runs tenure, he intended, should re main in force, but it would be surrounded with safeguards which would prevent the areasijecoming the property of large owners, and wonld also prrivide for the subdivision of such small runs amonget families, that is, if a man wished to acquire a small grazing run he could do so, and divide it during his lifetime, or at deatl: umong3t the members of his family. H< would provide that the large areus of pai toral country which was left, and of the chwsses of tenure he had referred to, should be disposed of for the future in a manner which •would be more conducive to the public in terests of the colony. Undor this tenure tc be introduced, the land could not possibly b< held in such enormous areas as it ia at the present time by foreign companies and indi viduals. He saw no reason why our pastorft lands should bo held by large companies, ii London and elHewhere, which drew thi whole of the proceeds, except what might b< spent on sheep-herding and shearing, anc the ordinary expenses of a station, to b< spent in London and Great Britain. (Ap plauße).

DDMMYISM. He also proposed to make such provision in the Land Bill as Would put a stop to durniTs.vism. He was told by a number of the people that this was impossible, and that no matter whatever laws wero passed in connection with the laud there would be ways and means available of breaking through' them. At any rate, he thought dununyism could be* put a stop to, and he was going to make endeavours to prevent it. Ono of his chief proposals in that direction would bo to make any breaches and evasions of tho Land Act, and misdemeanours under the Act, misdemeanours by both parties that is, the actual dummy, and the persons who employ him as such; and was convinced that if that was doue a large number of those c'ngaged in thissynteni of dummyism would never try it again. Thoy would be liable to imprisonment without the option of a (Loud applause.) They were told by a section of the press of tho colony that dnmmyism did not exiat to any. extent, and that there were very few evasions of the Land Act; and they had been told in the last session of Parliament by the tlich Minister of Lands that it did. not exist to any great extent, and that there wore very few trans-, fers from those who had purchased to largo companies or private individuula, and ho had denied, on that same occasion, that large areas ot land in Canterbury had been disposed of during that year which | Went to owners of large estates. Since j he (Mr. McKenzie) came into oflice ho hud had a return prepared showing what transfers there hud been during the Inst six months. From this return ho found that there were 17 purchasers in Canterbury, all of whom purchased on the Ist of July last, and each of whom made a solemn declaration that the land was for their own special use and benefit, who had transferred their aW.-aa, amounting to «iOB3 acres, to ono banking institution. Ho also found that two other selectors who had rnado a solemn declaration that tho land was for their own use and benefit, and who had purchased on the 2;>tii March last, had transferred to another banking institution 3100 ticres, and he found that five others who eworc that tho. land was for their solo use and benefit and \Vho alao purchased on the 25th March, had transferred their in-

teresfc to a mortgage agency company. In the last case the area was 1690 acreaf. gether it turned ont that the total number of 37 purchasers transferred to two banking companies, one mortgage agency, and j two individuals an area, of 13,587 acres, 5 nrit by mortgage, but by actual'transfer. This re-turn-had beeit made up to the sth March last, and how much more mjght have taken place since then it was hard to say.-There could be no doubt as the correctness of tha't return. It had been furnished him by the officers of the department* (Appltiuse.) Ho did not think it would be necessary for him to say one word more to convince, fafter giving them these hard and dry facts, as to the necessity of at once pufctina a stop to this sort of thing—that is, if the population :were to be settled in the ltind ot the colony. (Great applause.) What position did they find themselves on at the present time? It was this: that in some parts of the colony our land -was entirely gone. This was especially the case in Canterbury and Hawke'e Bay. There could be no more settlement in either of these two provinces unless they were prepared to repurchase some of the estates they had already disposed of; and this brought them to the necessity for doing go, and in his opinion the time, if it; had not already arrived, would very aoon come when the colony would have to face the question, and buy back some of these lands, which were at one time the lands of the colony, but which were now held in large estates by companies and monetary institu* ,tions. That being the c-.a?e, did it not behove then to' be very careful in the manner In which they should part with the portion of the public estate left to them. The Bill which he intended to introduce would pro* vide for the best use being made of such lands as Were left.

•: ■■■_. ; " A ■ BATTLE PREDICTED. A great deal of noise had been ■ made! with regard to the nature,, of titles to land. He ventured to say that a long time before the perpetual lease, which he proposed to give under, his■ now Act : would expire, the whole system of land lire, not only in New Zealand, but throughout the eiviliaed world, would bo altered. : : It would be impossible, , in liis opinion, to exclude, from the lands of the colony* no matter under what tenure the .estates wore held, the rising generation of New Zealand; because, if ' reciioldors themselves will * not - meet - on reasonable \ terms the ■ demands that will be.made by the youths of '■. the colony for land, to settle noon,* it would be i: the duty of the Government to step in, and make such laws as will open the lands to the,;people' of this colony to , settle : upon. .Thus would a big battle bo fought out to the bitter end, as they might depend Upon it that all, the influence of Wealth, and the intelligence ;■ of the wealthy, Would :bo arrayed against them. The battle would be fought not with bayonets of steel, but with, bayonets in the shape of lead pencils, 1 at the polling booths of the colony—(loud and prolonged applause)—and ■: he: had no hesitation in predicting which side would win—that it would be the youths of the colony who would stand ; no nonsense, but Would 'have opened up', for themselves land which Was now : held in vast areas, without occupiers. (Cheors). THE MINISTER 1 AND THB WELLINGTON LAND

BOARD. He would now refer to the criticisms or the press upon his administration as Minister of Lands. Hβ would first. refer to some of the criticisms in connection with the Wellington Land Board, in which he had been accused of snubbing that Board. (Laughter.) Shortly after his assuming office as Minister of Lands, it came to his knowledge that a large-number of selectors iu tho Wellington Province land district ;were not complying with tho law, and carrying out their improvements, which tliey were bound to do under the Act.l In consequence of this, he had appointeditwo surveyors selected by Mr. Percy Smith, Sur-veyor-General, to investigate and report to him as to how the settlement conditions were being complied with in the Wellington. Land District. On the 31st March last tho first instalments came to him, and .showed that out of 263 cases they had reported upon, 56 selectors were reported ae not having done anything to improve their selections, and a large number of others had only partly complied with the conditions, whiisfc out of; the total number, there wero only some &5 residing on their sections. On receipt of thosp returns they were handed over to Mr. McljCay, the ranjjer for the district, to show cause why these various settlers had not been <k>mpellod to Carry out the law. Mr. McKay, in his own office, submitted to him (Mr. McKenzie) a return, giving extracts from his report 3 for the year 1890, and stated that 96 settlers had made no improvements, and that out of 744 selectore, there were only 201 residing, and 294 had only partly complied with the conditions* _ Mr. McKay's statement was then submitted, to the Commissioner of Crown Land 3 ih Wellington, bo that he might make any remarks upon the report before any further action was taken. In reply to this, a resolution of the Board hRd been forwarded to him, to the effect that the progress of settlement had been very satisfactory—(laughter)—and. that the ranger spoke very confidently of the success of settlement in Wellington land district, and alleged that dununyism was not apparent ' to him, the only combination being the cases of tiicmbers of families who wished to have a better chance of getting the land they re quired. Mr. McKay, in his (subsequent report, distinctly denied that he ever made use of the remark attributed to him by the Board. It appeared to him as Minister of Lands, from, Mr. McKay's report to.the Board, which had never been contradicted, So far as the figures were concerned, that the deduction of the Board drawn from that report was not a fair one. ■■ In reply to further communications, asking the Commissioner of Crown Lands himself as to what position he took up with recard to Mr. McKay's report of 1890, lie (Mr. MpKenzio) received from the Board the previous resolution with a snub to the Minister of Lands in the shape of an inquiry as to why he would doubt the same, and he (Mr. McKenzie) had up to the present time never received an explanation from the Board to show why, if they had done their duty on Mr. McKay s report of 1890, it was possible for Messrs. Murray and, Lowe, the surveyors appointed for the purpose, to find sucih a deplorable state of things as that set forth in the report. ! He considered he was acting within his authority as Minister of Lauds, as the political head of the department, in drawing the attention of the Wellington Land Board to the position of affairs, and this was the action on his part that had occasioned so much offence to the Board and to the Conservative pvess throughout the colony. The Whole of the facts in connection with this matter were now departmental documents. It would be impossible for the Landßoard to pretend that it had done its duty, or to say that his action in drawing attention to the fact was wrong or improper. In point of fact he, as Minister, would consider that he had not done his duty if, when the facts were brought under t his notice; he had not drawn the attention of the Board to them. (Applause).

■•'■'■■ THE STOCK ■DEPARTMENT. The next question to which he would refer, and upon which he had been assailed by the Conservative press, was th<i appointment of Mr. Ritchie as chief of the Stock Department. He was not ■ going to : refer to the : canards which / that section ■ of the Press had chosen to drag into the matter, nor would he refer to the scandalous and unbecoming manner in which his family -had been brought into public not ice. His hearers were perfectly figure that there was no truth whatever in those reports, and it was quite unnecessary for him to contradict them there; but he: would refer them to the facts -connected with Mr. Ritchie's appointment, and then tho people of the; colony would be in possession of the true reason for making the appointing S. On taking charge of the Stock Department he found it in a most, disorganised state. -: He found that instead of having one head to control the whole/department, and responsible to the Minister, there wero no less than six chief inspectors, one in each provincial district, and that instead of confining their expenditure to the amountof the vote of last session passed for the purpose -of the ; department, they had expended something over ±,'2OOO above what was voted by the House. He had found that thousands of pounds were each year spent by those chief inspectors in keeping down rabbits on Crown lands, without any control - whatever from the head oflice in Wellington. The accounts had been sent up for payment from each dietrict without approval by anyone except tho inspectors, and they had simply to be paid without question on their reaching Wellington. He himself, since lie beoaino a Minister, had to approve of the payment of accounts which had never been authorised by the head office./ Ihese Were solid facts which could be proved by documentary evidence, ; and could not possibly be disputed. He thon saw that it would bo impossible to devote sufficient time to manage the wliofc o f the Stook Department himself, and h e Cninc to t ], c conclusion thut the proper thi,, to do would he to appoint :. a head over t |, e department, who would have his headquarters in Wellington,;vvvJio Cwotikl bo 7 responsible : to the Minister for all his actions, and who wouldhave to consult the Minister before entering into any plana \vhlh might cost the coloily any considerable Bum s O f money. Having come to that con c h,i on t ho next thins he <lirt was to select a man for this important position, and on going through tho lists or tho department he (l id n( £ fllul Ano in whom ho could . im ; su iljcient;bdnfidenoo »?,tJiii n>C JV i to;tho o,n °- H« then looked outaldo the department for an able man, and thought of M r . Ritchie. (Aoplaiuw.) Ho did £°. because ho know Mr. 'Attehlo well. I ..I; T w " ttfc KoddsWrk he Imd done in putting down t i lc ra bbite on the Mount Royal estate, .and ho k uew M( . Ritchie to bo an energetic, steady, mid economical manager oi iv station, and one who, in his opinion, was well qualified: to reorganise the Sheep ■■Do/,

partment. (Applause.) l'or that reason alone he bad offered the appointment .to Mr. Ritchie, and he was not at all certain that the offer would be accepted. To have asked Mr. Ritchie to leave a comfortable appointment and home, such as he had at Mount Royal, without giving him some assurance of a permanency for at least a certain length of time, would have been unfair and nnjust, and he might tell them that had he not done so, the offer would not have been accepted. He could safely sav that no moire pure and honest appointment had ever been made to the civil service of New Zealand. Mr. Ritchie was appointed solely becanse ho (Mr. McKeuzie) considered lie would be the right man in the right pkce, and ne was confident that after Mr. Ritchie had been allowed a couple of years to sho<v Jus capability, the appointment would not require any detence on his part. He would tell them thiit during the short time Mr. Ritchie had held the position, he had already effected a clear saving to the colony of at the rate of £3300 per annum over and above his own salary and ho had every confidence that in twelve months hence Mr. Ritchie would be able to show a still greater saving.. (Applause.) This in itself would be quite sufficient to prove the necessity for. the appointment, and also the qualification of the man for the appointment. Ihe only conclusion he could arrive at as to why the appointment should be so bitterly assailed by the Conservative press of the colony was that they had probably only been used to appointments of that nature being made for very different reasons than those of necessity and qualifications for office. (Groans.)

SIR. M'KKN'ZIE AN r D MB. SPENCE. Iβ now came to the statements made by Mr. Spence, of_ Invereargill, and taken up by the Conservative press throughout the length and M'eadth of the colony, with regard to iris own ictiops us Minister of Lands in the Southland listrict. He would not follow the course ■mrsued by Mr. Spence at In vercargill, or nirl back at Mr. Spence the very bitter aiignage that had been used against liirnaelf, jut he would take this opportunity of dealing ,vith the charges stripped of the verbiage of ibnsoin which, they were clad. Well, the kst charge was that lie had ordered Mr. jpencob removal from Southland to Westand so that Mr. Duncan Campbell could be tppointed a Crown Lands ranger for that listrict; secondly, that Mr. Musaoii wan renoved to Canterbury so that Mr. Campbell jould take hia place; thirdly, that he (Mr. had reduced the Land Office at [nvercargill to Jess'than an adequate working itaff; fourthly, that he (the Minister) sent a nemo, to the Land Office to make a declara>ion that they had perpetrated a swindle; ind fifthly, the appointment of Mr. Campjeh to the office of ranger. -ft ow, he would ;ive hard and dry facts, and at the same :ime substantial reasons for his action. ' Facts are chiels that wiuna ding"—(laughter ind applause)—and whon they had hia ex>lanation it would be for thitt meeting to udge him. First then he would take Mr. speuce'e own case, and the reasons which had ndnced him (the Minister) to remove that )fficer to Wostland. On his tour of inspec;ion throughout the colony, he got as far as [nvercargill, but he might say that before he eft Wellington on that tour he had had locumenta sent to him containing complaints >f the manner in which the administration of jj she Crown lands and forest reserves in Southand was boinx conducted, and one of his obects iUj yisitirig Southland was to generally iiquire into these matters. No sooner did he •each Invercargill than numbers of people .vaited upon him for the purpose of drawing ittention to the defective administration of ;he_ Land Department, and the' Way in ivhioh the forest reserves were being iealt with. One of these gentlemen who ■lad; interviewed him made such startling icciisations against Mr. .Spence that he (Mr. McKenzie) had decided not to hear him inleas ho was prepared to sign his name to jho accusations ho was making. he xgrced to do. Mr. Gore, his secretary, took lown his statement in shorthand, wrote it nit that evening, and the gentleman Jh ques;ipn called next day, read the statement, ind sifrued his name to it. He (Mr. McKenzie) took that statement to Mr. Spence himself, and asked him to reply to it, ,vhich he did, and sent it on to Wellington, jut the reply was not satisfactory to him the Minister), so he decided that the tentletnan who had made the statement ibould:*Bgaiti be written to from Wellington, ind asked if he had any further proof ot the jharges he had mado against Mr.* , Spence. Another letter was received from that jehtleihan emphasising what he had previously, stated,, and giving dates for some of the' statements he had made, at the same bime giving the natne3 of other people in Southland who could prove his accusation. But before this inquiry could be completed Mr.S]Sbnffe left the service. When ho (the Minister) was at Gore recently, a copy of the petition,- whicli had been .forwarded to his predecessor, the Hon. Mr. It.chardson, was presented to him. In it serious complaints; were made with regard to the Ci'oydon bush, and its administration under Mr. Spence. At tho same time a newspaper was handed to him in which appeared the following advertisement: •*— "Notice : Any psraoli or persons found cutting or removing timber inside survey lines in Croydon Bush, on Drydou and Reardou {Sawmill Reserve, will be prosecuted by law. (Signed) Drydrn and Reardok." This advertisement was quite illegal, and had no right to appear in the papers; and this had been done under Mr. Speiice's very noee in the Southland district. Had he been performing his duty properly as Commissioner of Crown Lands he would at> once hare contradicted such an advertisement. The whole result of his

neglect had been that the settlers in Southland, not only in the Croydon Bush district, but also in other districts had been prevented I from getting what they had a right to, by the -sawmillets being allowed to assume by public advertisement that they had a legal right to what the law did not allow them. The settlers were practically thrnst to one Side. On asking Mr. spence why he had allowed suoh an advertisement he was told in so many words that he (Mr. Spence) was not bound to read newspapers. He (Mr. McKenzie) then immediately caused an advertisement to be inserted in tile papers by Air. Snenco stating.that sawmill licenses only give the privilege to sawmillers to saw timber aloiie, and that any settler who chose to pay for a license could go to any bush in 'Southland for posts and rails or firewood, which they had been prevented previously from doing, and he could say that for this action he had been heartily thanked by a large number of people in Southland. (Applause.) A great number of other complaints had been made to him, too numerous to mention, but ho had documents in his possession which would bear out overy woul he was now saying. One gentleman in particular, he was informed when it) Invercargill, could obtain anything he asked for at the hands of the .Southland Land Board. He had,requested Mr. Spence himself to furnish a return of areas held by that gentleman for sawmilling purposes in Southland, and he found that tins same gentleman was ill possession of fourteen selection!* ,na saw milling areas, amounting in all to '2078 acres, with reservations besides, made for h'is own use and benefit, of 3790 acres, making a total held in the grasp of this one man of 5803 acres of Southland Forest, reserves, and lie had only three sawmills on the lot. (" Oil I" ; suul applause.) Another statement made to him when in Southland was that an

area with timber upon it to the value of £3 per acre had been Bold for the mini of 12s Cd per acre for cash. "y! Into this ho: had made [personal inquiry, and had found it to be true. Taking all these things into consideration, he could only come to one conclusion, and that was, that it would be in the interests of the colony of New Zealand, and of Mr. Spenco himself, that ho should be removed from that placei' where he had been for such a length of time. The removal of Crown Lands oilieers from time to time from ono portion of the .colony to another had always been a recognised thing, j liven the Judges of the Supreme Court, alter they had been a certain [length of time iii ono district, wero vary often ; removed.. ■ Resident Magdstrates were also moved in the same way. Police oflicers, and, in ■ fact, ,, every civil servant' in t!io colony, if /; it - was :-.* found ■ /necessary, . and ■ in the interests : of tho community, >■ were liable ; ; to bo / moved 'at any - ti'nu. '■} (Applause.) What, then, he had done was simply to ask Mr. Sponce to go to Westlund at the same salary as he was receiving in Southland, and he,(Mr. MoKenzie) had ! done so for no other reason whatever than that ho thought Mr. Spence had been quite long enough ih the district, f and that :in the : interests of tho colony, , and in his own interest, his removal would be an advantage. >io\v, • that was i the reason Mr. Spcuco had been asked to go to Westland. : (Applause.) / The reason •; for Mr. Musscn's removal to ■ Canterbury was that : after i consultation , with; Mr. • Spenco himself 'in /Southland, they came to the conclusion -. that it was necessary to have a forest ranger in Southland. ; Home years ago when his predecessor was in cilice a man who had : just been s appointed "its Cro\vn lands ranger was disjionsed with on tho plea of retrenchment. 'J.en police ofiicois were tlioiv appointed forest rangers at; a certain sum per annum, Mr. Mussen occupying the position of Crown lands ; ranger. lf : On looking over the papers in connection : with tho forests of SoutlUand in the Wellington head ofllco, he ascertained that Mr. Campbell, during his two years of office as Crown lands ranger, had protected * the rovonuo derived from the" forest rosorves in Southlaud to

tho extmtt of an amount equal to his own salary, by detecting illegal transactions in connection with those forests. Dur-

ing tho wholo timp tho ten poltoo ofliccre wero performing tho same duty, there was not one initauco of a report by which tho revenue of tho colony had .been iucrcusod. In fact there was no record ariioiigst tho

papers in f Wellington, 'ia show, that' those police officers ever- ££<&■ any tiling while the people of Southland- were crying crtit that the forests J were■.) being j illegally operated upon. He had discussed j, this question with Mr. Spence while in Invercargill, and Mr. Spence himself admitted that avsiiter was necessary, and i recommended ■•$ that; one " should *be appointed. He (Mr. v McKeijzie"J j? then s gave it as his opinion • that one : ranger would be quite v sufficient: . for •'■ the work in connection ; with both the Crown lands and the forest reservee as well. >Mr.: Speace demurred to this, and strongly recommended him, as Minister, to have Mr. ; Mnsseri £iui charge of the Crown lands, and to appoint ) a special ranger for: the forests. ■ Mr. ■ Mussen was an elderly man, of about 60 years of atje, ; and unable to make long journeys on horseback. While there i was nothing to ■be said against Mr. Musseii whatsoevexy still in the Minister's opinion he' was totally unable to perform both duties. He therefore, as ; an - act ;■ of kindness to Mr. ;; Mussen, asked; him to remove to .. Canterbury, where : be: could do most of his travelling by train. Hβ hart nOt the least de3ire to transfer MY. Massen .from ; Southland if he y could perform '■ both "/ the -v i duties of Crown lands range? A"d forest ranger, and if • as Mr. Spence had stated, his.sole object had been to make way for Mr. Campbell, he had at that very time the rangei?mP of Ranter-: bury t vacant, f and also;an i opciiug ip the Wellington. Land District to vrhfCh that gentleman'could have been appointed,\*nd he might add that if; ho had left Mr. - Spence ;.» n . charge of, the. Invercargill' office, *with Mr. . Mussen as Crown Lands ranger, ; and appointed another man to look after i the forests, sending Mr. Campbell to Wel- j lington or Christchurch, not ouo word would have been said about this , Campbell appointment. (Applause.) •:■} The > third accusation made against - him was that he had reduced ! the Land Office : at; Invercar-gill to ; less than I an jad equate staff to' perform the ; duties re- j quired of it. Now, he would ask this audiI ence to bear, with him ' a few minutes while he gave a few figures in connection with the ! Waste Lands * Onice in Invercargill which could ": not ,;, fail to convince ' ; anyone that the ■;". action he had : -taken - was the right j one in the interests of the ; colony. He had Va J return r prepared and sent to him through the heads of •: the Lands Department for the colony, L showing the work done in ;i the Invercargill ? 7 Lands ; ; Office during-the; month of February last, when peace and quietness reigned- supreme in that office, before it was ;. known that any reductions were to be ; made-by "that ( shepherd from the hillside." , ? (Loud laughter and applause.) ? When he told them what that return was '. those v present would " see how much ; dependence could ? be placed -' on the statements of Mr. Spence with regard to the amount of : work done in , the office at Invercargill. He found that the total land revenue received for the month amounted to £1251

10s 2d, being at the rate of £52 Ss 6d per day. The entries in the books amounted to 001, being a little over 20 entries per day. There were about 14 receipts given perday,and barely four letters' received and slightly over four letters despatched a day. Thirfcy-nine persons applied for land, being at the rate of about an applicant and α-halt per diem. In addition to this, there were a few printed returns to fill in for the month, and there was a monthly meeting of the Land Board, the minutes of which would have to bo kept; and to do this work required a staff of officers at an expenditure of £2223 per annum— (laughter)—being at the rate of £185 5s per month, or a percentage of 15 per cent, on the gross takings. In order that he might not do an injustice in this matter, or show it in any false colours, he might say that the month of February did not quite come up to the average amount received for the year, as the total revenue received in the South Island for the last year was £19,393 17s lOd, but when the coats to the colony was at the rate of 12 per cent, per,annum, taking those figures into consideration of the amount of work performed in the Inyercargiil Land Office, he did not think any other conclusion could be come to than that the retrenchment was necessary. In fact it has been a matter of wonder to him as to what the officers in that branch could possibly find to do from morning to night. Jiist fancy four letters per day received by Mr. Spence and his clerks, and four letters per day despatched—(laughter)— most of which were in print, and just imagine the man standing at the ledger or the Invercargill office to receive £53 a day. He ventured to think they could find a store-f keeper in JPalmerston with a man and boy who despatched and received more letters and collected moro money than passed through the Invercargill Land Office. These were hard facts, and could be proved by documentary evidence in his possession; and that, so far as he was concerned, was sufficient answer to the of having reduced the Invercargill office to its detriment. (Applause.) Now. the next crime he had beert accused of was of having issued a circular, as he had already stated, practically asking officers in the various districts 'to declare that they had perjured themselves. He would proceed to read the contents of that circular, and leave it to those present to judge. It was dated the 13th of March, 1891, from the Crown Lands Department, at Wellington, to the Commissioners of Crown Lands, and was as follows :—" Under .instructions from the Hon. the Minister of Lands, I have to request you to ask each clerk in your office if he ever got declarations under the Land Act signed by a J. P. in r, which were afterwards filled in and used for the purposes of application under the Act; the answers of each clerk to be noted opposite his name. Will you at the same time be good enough to state Whether yon have any personal knowledge of such practice havini? been pursued in your district? (Signed) H. J. H. Eliott, UnderSecretary. The reason for issuing that circular was that it had )>een reported that practices of Miis sort were carried on; and to show that there were pood grounds for such a report two of the officers had stated in their replies that they had seen such applications. His sole (ibject in sending that circular had been to ascertain if such a custom had prevailed amongat the various offices, and if so, to see that a stop was put to it in future. The fact that it was found to exist in one case proved the necessity for the circular being written. (Loud applause). In connection with the appointment of Mr. Campbell, that officer was neither a friend or relative of his (Mr. Mckenzie), ami ho only knew him from the fact that on a previous occasion he was acting in the capacity "of Crown Lands ranger in Southland, and also because it had been reported that he was an excellent officer, and attentive to his work. He had .been told that the reason why .Mr. Campbells services were dispensed with was that he had performed his duty too faithfully, and that the Conservatives of Southland did not , approve of his actions in forcing them to keep rigidly to the murk. (Laughter.) Weil, he asked Mr. Campbell whether in the event o; his being appointed Crown lands ranger for Southland, would ho also undertake ■ the forest reserve duty. Mr. Campbell replied that he would be quite able to undertake both offices by giving up his whole time and attention to them. He (the Minister) then asked Mr. Campbell if he could produce any certificates from the Commissioner of Grown Lands under whom ho iiad served. Ho replied that he had several which he would forward to Wellington. He (Mr. McKenzie) had seen these certificates, and before the appointment was made they were submitted to Mr. Percy, Smith, the Surveyor-General of the colons'. He would now proceed to read those testimonials. The first was from Mr. Walter H. Pearson, the late Commissioner of Crown Lands for Southland, dated 4th June, 1888 : —" To Mr. D. Campbell, Crown Lauds Rangdr, luvercargill.— Dear sir.—As requested by you, I have much pleafuire in saying that' while I had the position of Commissioner of Crown Lands for the district of Southland, you were for years my Crown Lands Ranger, and in that capacity fulfilled your duties, which wero onerous, and required considerable moral courage in their discharge, with energy, intelligence, strict impartiality, and thorough efficiency. I am sorry to learn that tho exigencies of enforced retrenchment have obliged the Government to part with a servant whose long career in their service is a record of honest and fa'ithfnl endeavour. Trusting you will succeed wherever you may go and in whatever you may undertake.—l remain, etc. (Signed) Waivtkr H. Pearson*, late Commissioner of Crown Lauds, Southland, Ne\V Zealand.!' The next certificate was from the Crown Lands Office, Invercai-gill, us follows : —".Time4th, 1838. Memo, for Mr. Duncan Campbell. Grown Lands ftnn«or: I havo examined the various books hi connection with the Waste Lands' Board in the Southland laud district, and find no marks of any nature entered against Mr. Duncan Campbell, Jrowrt Lands Ranger under the Wasto Lands Joard here for many years. (Signed) A. MoNab, clerk in tho land oftico." This letter was certified to by Mr. Percy Smith as being to tho bast of his'belief Mr. McNab's landwritini*. Tho next certificate M'as from no less a personage than Mr. Sponce himself. He had no doubt they would all bo very curious to hear what waa Mr. Spence's opinion of Mr. Campbell. Now, this was what Mr. Spoupo said with regard to Mr. Duncan Campbell:—" The bearer, Mr. Duncan Campbell, has been Crown Lauds Ranger of Southland for a number of years, and loaves the service owing to the necessity of retrenchment otr tho part of tho Government. I have found Mr. Campbelt to be a willing, capable, and. obliging officer, and I trust that ho will succeed in getting a (situation. I will always bo glad to hew of his success.—(Signed) J. Swsnck, Commissioner of Crown Lands.' (Loud and prolonged applause.) As * Mr. Sponco was just about to leave tho colony, or had loft when ho made the charges against him

Mr. McKenzie)j arid as it might* t>e said *aft the enmneness of • the - signature o the certificate was doubtful, he iad takra the precaution of asking Mr.' Percy Smith, the Surveyor-Genraralj who was •ami&ar with Mr. Speuce's haudwntinz to, testify to the same, which he did in the folowiiipi* words :-"I - know 1;h«_to be Mr. Spence's handwritten, and that the signature 9 his." ■ (Cheers.).gwj he (Mr. McKenzie) ivould so so far, as to say that the appointment of Mr, GtmpbeU was giving satisfacHort to many of the people of boutblaud, and to place that fact beyond a doubt he would •ead a. telegram which he had that day received from the members of the.Sontbland joristitiiencfes :^- a your transfer or ; Mr. Spence, Commissioner; of Crown -Lands ?to Westland: W« quite approve of what you did in this matter, and believe that the change .vas s: in S. the best interests ¥of the colonyRe Mr. Campbell's appointment,;we; are of opinion that his removal from.office formerly; rt-as exceedingly unfair, inasmuch as he had been : very zealous in the discharge of duties, Mid had, inconsequence, made many enemies. We corisidtv his re-appointment by you only m act of justice : to; Southland.— wj Kelly. G. Mackintosh and; J, G. Ward. ,>. That, he thought, would prove beyond, a , ioubt that the appointment "was approved by -i the people—(Loud applause),—as those three members; who were responsible to large constituencies, ; would not be likely, to a telegram of that sort \ without regard to the feeling of C the i larger .portion of their electors. They had now the ; whole 3 facts ;in connection with his great charges, attd c was for those present to . decide vhe.*l} e the strictures passed upon mm 3V Mr*. Spence, and by s the Conservative jress of the colony, were .justified or not. ;He yould point' ■ out, too, that Mr. { Spence was, iot speaking, : when leaving the colony, in the interests of the colony, but he .3 was | speaking is a disappointed .<» an » , as one • who had ; en-, leavourecf to ; leave .the service i with a large mm of money. - He l.wl asked him, as Mm-, ister as Lands, to grant , ; a retiring allowance jut of the taxes paid the people of the jolonv. SMr Spence was I inked to remove to. Westland, and not to leave he servwse. tie thereupon asked leave to retit , *, and i had he 'Mr. ; McKenzie) wSshied to * ite : severe,: he ;ould have ordered. Spence to Westland )r resign. ; Then ft had he ; reigned he would not ■■■ have been entitled ' to •; one sixpence; and what was the returns allowance that Mr. Spence demffoded ? hy," he > asked to ■be i compensated ' few his General Government services and his provinsial services, and ;at the same tiraeappliea or six months' leave of absence $on s fall pay, naking a total sum asked for by Mr. bpence>f £1180. The Surveyor General, in his memo. )f advice to himself on the subject, stated ,hat Mr. ■; Spence asked that; he might, retire mS compensation rather s than be removed ;o ; Westland, and that. : he might have six nonths' leave, pointing out that Mr. Spence ,vould be entitled to compensation (for his vices to the'amount of n about £540—that s, for his General Government services—-but ie;asked' that his provincial sernce be injluded. V This would mean, about *9051 for joth services. ? The -; Surveyor-General con-; ;inued:—", The Civil Service Act, 1886, limits .eave of ■ absence - on I retirement to three nonths. I would ask your favourable consileration in allowing Mr. Speoce to be compensated, and have three montfaa , leave. « He lid not, of ; his own '' accord decide the I mat;er, but he submitted it to his colleagues n the Cabinet, and he would read the Oabilet's decision : —" Mr. Spence will be allowed ;o retire with compensation—viz., f £540. Provincial service cannot be allowed, nor can eave of absence be granted. May 1,1891/This, then, was the man who had endeavoured » defame him (Mr.: McKenzie) throughout ;he breadth and length of : the colony—the ; nan who had asked for £1180 of the public n baey, bat who had '< only received £540 —and f he (Mr. McKenzie) had been guilty ; of any ■rror of judgment, it was that he had been x>o lenient with Mr. Spepcie. ' He had granted life £540, when he was in no way compelled n law to do so. i ;He did so only on the itrength of the recommendation of the head )f the department, and he -% was glad jto take ;hat opportunity, of saying that the \ colony, might be proud to have such a man as Mr. Percy Smith at the head of that department — : - gentleman who had, ; during ■a ■ most critical time, when dispensing with so many civil : servants, retained a • kind and | humane ; heart. ere he (Mr. McKenzie) to occupy his present position- for one month, or one year, or; whatever length of i time, he would always remember with pleasure his association with Mr. Percy Smith, the SurveyorGeneral of New Zealand. (Applause). .

THE OTAGO DAILY TIMES. Before sitting down he would like to refer, briefly to the bitter animosity shown towards him by the Daily Times. That paper lor 20 solid yeara had bitterly opposed him, notwithstanding the fact that they (his constituents} had for that same ,20 years returned him to every position of trust it was in their power to offer. (Applause.) Thatj in itself •was sufficient to show that the opinion of the proprietors of the Otago Daily Times had little Weight in that (the Waitaki) district. (Applause.) Moreover, as a guide of public opinion, that paper had always been entirely in the wrong. (Loud and prolonged applause.) He had been accused by the Times of putting his own relations and personal friends into the civil service., He had not a singlo relation at the present moment in the civil seri vice. If there was one thing he could pride himself upon, it was that his hands were clean in that direction, and they, his friends and supporters, knew it. When he first commenced his political career in that dis-trict,-the settlement did not extend beyond two miles from Pnlmerston; it how extended 35 miles, aad without fear of appearing egstistical, he mighty say that he had done his share in opening up that district. (Cheers.) The Otago Daily Times had always opposed him, but they (his constituents) knew whether ho had been a friend of the settler or an enemy. He had never wavered in his resolution to open up the land for settlement, and very often his endeavours were to his own personal disadvantage. So long as the Daily Times is owned by the present proprietors, so long would they oppose him in the performance of his duty. It on any future occasion that journal took to praising him, it would be time for the settlers to look minutelv into his actions. They had now heard all lie had to say that eveniug, and while thanking those present for the patient hearing they had accorded him he would leave himself entirely in their hands. Mr. McKensie resumed his seat amid loud and continued applause. After one or two questions, Mr. Wμ. Murcott moved the following resolution :— "That this meeting has every confidence in the Hon. John McKenzie as our representative, and in the Government of which he is a member; that the actions of the present Government since it 'came into office are fully approved ot by the Waitaki constituency, and are such as to merit the confidence of the country at largo." The motion was seconded by Mr. Morton, and earned by acclamation, with three cheers.

Three groans were then called for am heartily given for the Otago Daily Times. A vote of thanks to the chairman term: nated the meeting.