THE NATIVE MINISTER AT OTOROHANGA.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XXVIII, Issue 8531, 3 April 1891, Page 6

THE NATIVE MINISTER AT OTOROHANGA.

INTERVIEW WITH TE KOOTI.

MEETING OF NATIVES.

[BY TELEGRAPH.OWN CORRESPONDENT.] ... Otorohanga, Thursday. Mr. Cadman had a long interview with tho natives last night, who detained him till a lato hour. This morning Te Kooti was with him an hour. He represented that Mr. Mitchelson had promised him a grant of land. Mr. Cadman said if the records confirmed it, he would faithfully carry out the promise. Te Kooti was disposed to be exceedingly friendly. At eleven o'clock this morning, the meeting with all the natives was resumed. Wauanui opened by stating that the natives gave tho Minister a lot of food for thought yesterday. They would now like his reply, and thus enable the natives to have a second opportunity of speaking to him.

The Minister said he was desirous to hear all their grievances, and would give every opportunity to ventilate them. He therefore complied with their request. He commenced by saying that he was thete in response to the invitation of Wahanui and other chiefs ; but tho invite did not say what he was wanted for, but he was pleased at the intelligence and moderation manifested. It was easy to sit here and promise all sorts of things impossible to fulfil. The natives .would say, " Very good." But if he went away and forget his promises, he would forfeit thengood opinion, and the past would be repeated. He did not intend to make promised to gain present favour. He would tell them honestly what ho thought. They would not be deceived by what he would say. His would be plain talk, and he expected the same from them. If they could not agree, he would not resent their difference, and ho hoped the feeling of mutual goodwill would continue. They had one common object, to lessen the existing trouble and create a better state of things. The present Government wore desirous to accomplish this, but to get things right there must be mutual concession, and both must give and take. But it must be distinctly understood that Parliament would have to ratify all his promises, or they could have no effect. All his proposals would be submitted to Parliament, but there was no guarantee that Parliament would endorse them. If his proposals were satisfactory, the natives should urge on the four Maori members to support them, as a bad effect was produced when they were divided on native questions. He did not mean that they should be asked to support the present Government, but matters beneficial to their people. On this they should * be unanimous. He did not intend to reply to all the details, but to deal with general principles, as stilted in yesterday's speoches. Mr. Ormsby put the matter clearly from the natives' side, and his opinions were mostly endorsed by the others. Ho would now put tho other side, as presented to himself. He said that whilst general unanimity prevailed, there was some contradiction. For instance, in the case of and bridges, some wanted these, others did not. Some would only consent to these being placed to suit themselves. They claimed the right to have equal laws for natives and Europeans, which he agreed to, as all Europeans should. It was shown that no equality existed, for instance, in the Land Courts and with respect to stamps. Speaking of the Land Court, he said it was an easy matter to sit down and wait for a law to be passed and then find fault, and suggest improvements. The framing of these laws was generally left to Europeans, then the natives complained because they did not suit. If the Maoris in the colony were to carefully decide what was suitable, and there was a degree of unanimity, the Government would be bound to entertain their proposal, subject to a minute investgation, when, in all probability, suitable legislation would result. The natives must be qualified by experience to do this. He urged them not to wait until laws were passed, and then complain. It appeared to him, under existing circumstances, that the native lands were simply squandered in the expenses of the Court and lawyers' fees, the agents absorbing all, these getting the oyster, the natives shells. It appeared to him that the natives themselves were largely to blame for this owing to their own disagreements. The Court sitting at Marton was an example of this. He was informed that the costs were £25,000, and that in all probability the case would end in a reheaaring, in which 'case the oyster business would practically be illustrated. The natives should avoid such things, settling their own disputes if it cost them greater labour. When settled they should appeal to the court to ratify the bargain. He intended to introduce a bill next session with permissive clauses, with the view to prevent litigation, and facilitate settlement as indicated. He hoped it would prevent natives travelling 100 miles to attend a Land Court. He would like an expression of opinion on it. The cost of surveys was another grievance, but he did not consider it tenable. He could not see any reason for the country paying Maori surveys. Europeans had an equal claim, and if done for all the revenue would bo unable to stand the strain. Every man must pay the cost of his own surveys. He intended to propose that the natives should pay the cost of survey in land which the Government would take, as they recognised the trouble of the natives in getting them effected if they had no money. He thought they should choose their own surveyors. It appeared to him that this plan would prevent delay, and practically solve the difficulty. Re removal of restrictions from land sales, he reminded them that it was recognised as unfair to give favoured individuals of great influence an undue share in public expenditure, the interest on which was paid by all. Public expenditure made lands valuable, and to prevent large acquirements and inevitable public expenditure the restrictions were imposed. He forcibly pointed out that the Government did not buy their land for speculative purposes, but really to sell it for settlement, and make it bear a fair share of taxation, and thus try to place all on the same footing. Speaking of their desire to acquire land for settlement, he reminded them that they wore in exactly the same position as Europeans, and said they could have any block for the purpose, even if it had just been acquired from themselves. He lucidly explained the provisions of perpetual lease, and urged them if they wanted land, to acquire it under the provisions' of that Act. He said in this at any rate there was the same law for both races. In selling their land every Maori should be at perfect liberty to sell his interests in any block, and it was absurd for him to be prevented selling his section until tho consent of a partner or neighbour was obtained. Coming to the question of roads and bridges, he asked what could he do when they could not agree? It was clear that all could not be served, and he could not entertain a proposal that anyone should control in these matters. When the best route was selected the road must go there. The road to To Awamutu was not the shortest road, but was selected for convenience and economical construction. All roads in their district must be similarly made, and he could accept no dictation on such a question. They had asked him for a doctor, but he reminded them that the time had come for the practice of self-reliance. They must do as Europeans did, namely, club together and find their own medical adviser. Asking the Government for such things tended to destroy self-respect. He reminded them that if they wanted a common law for the colony they must be prepared to accept common responsibility, that meant a tax on their lands, contribution to the hospital and other things incidental to Europeans, and if they were prepared to accept these, he would help them to the utmost. He urged upon them to be careful as to what they asked for in the matter of leasing their land, and directed them to the Rotorua leases, which were such a signal failure. He said that the Government, next session, would introduce a Bill to repeal all native laws, and make a new start. This would prevent any additions to the old sores. A second Bill would be introduced to validate all titles to land properly acquired under the provisions of an existing law, but he hoped in future to secure an entire simplification. I Finally he could not promise to remove the

restrictions on the sale of their land, bub he confidently hoped a ' better state of things'would result from his proposal. Some of the influential natives have expressed themselves to me as being highly pleased with Mr. Cadman's manly reply.