VAILE'S RAILWAY SCHEME.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XXV, Issue 9141, 24 August 1888, Page 6

VAILE'S RAILWAY SCHEME.

m iPROPQSAL TO LEASE THE BAILWAY. MEETING OP THE CHAMBER OP COMMERCE. A special meeting of the Chamber of Commerce was held yesterday afternoon to coneider the proposal made by Mr. S. Vaile and others to the Government for leasing a portion of the railways of the colony. There were present Messrs. J. Milne, Bridgwater, Page, Groom, J. P. King, J. McLachla.n, Captain Colbeck, S. Vaile, A. Bell, W. H. Kettlewell (Walker Gum Company), Bell, A. H. Nathan, J. Chambers, Esam, Lodder, and others. . Captain Steele from Waikato was also present. In the absence of the president, Mr. J. Milne presided. The Chairman said he was sorry their resident was absent, but he was now on is way to Australia. Before goinpr he had asked him (Mr. Milne) to be present to take charge of the meeting, and he thought the first course should be to call on Mr. Vaile to detail the offers he had made to the Government, and the replies he had received, and after that the matter wonld be fairly before the meeting, and open for discussion. Mr. Vaile said that he would read to the meeting the correspondence which had passed between himself and the Government. 'Early in the session he had addressed a letter to the Premier and Cabinet of New Zealand, dated on the 15th of May, and calling their attention to what was going on at the Whangarei line, reminding them of his offer to lay the same system on the Waikato line. To that he received no reply. After a meeting with some friends, he sent the following letter to the Minister of Public Works, dated the 9th of August :—

Hon. E. Mitchelson, Minister for Public Works, Wellington. Dear Sir, —So convinced are many of my friends here as to the feasibility of working the Auckland section of railways on the system I propose, that, bearing in mind the fact that a Parliamentary committee in 1888 reported that in their opinion a trial of this system should be given on an isolated section of our railways, they have requested me to ask you if you are pref tared to entertain a proposition to lease these ines for a period of five years, with a view to fully testing the new system. A substantial guarantee would be given to the Government that the net revenue paid to the Treasurer should not be less than that received during the year 1887 8. Other terms and conditions to be arranged on an equitable basis, but so as not to place the public in a worse position than it is at present. If the Government is prepared to entertain this proposal, active negotiations can proceed at once.—l have the honour to be, Sir, faithfully yours. (Signed) Samuel Vaile.

On the following day he forwarded the following telegram in explanation : — Hon. E. Mitchelson, Minister Public Works, Wellington. In reference to my letter of 9th instant, the intention is that an increasing revenue beyond that now obtained shall be paid to the Government, and that users of the railway shall also be benefited by fixing maximum rates at least ten per cent, below existing rates, which on last year's transactions would mean relief to the extent of £11,100. (Signed) Samuel Vaile.

He received the following reply, dated 15th August :—

Sir,—ln reply to your letter of 9th, and telegram of lltn instant, I have the honour to inform you that your application is too late in the session to permit the' Government to give the proper consideration to so large a question as the leasing of a system of lmes which have cost nearly two millions of money, and the Government has no power to make a lease without the authority of Parliament.—l am, etc., (signed) Edwin Mitchelson, Minister for Public Works. To this he sent the following telegram in reply :—

Honourable E. Mitchelson, Minister Public Works, Wellington.Honoured by yours of 15th. Considering a far more important measuie, the Government Railways Act was put through in a few hours, at the extreme end of last session, cannot an enabling Bill be passed now. We are prepared to hand back lines on six months' notice after first year.—(Signed) Samuel Vaile.

That, Mr. Vaile said, was all the correspondence. As to the intentions of himself and his friends it was to give the new system a more thorough trial. His friends after going into the working of the system on the Whangarei line, were satisfied that it was safe. They provided in their application that the Government should have the right to resume possession at the end of six months, and they expected also that the Government would take the right of inspection. He had been offered large support in Wellington to lease the railways of the colony ; but his reply was that the railways belonged to the people, and should not be leased. It was said, in reply, that they in Auckland would get the profit of a five years' test cheap; but he said that they in Auckland would have to pay the expense of trying it, and thus would be placed at a serious disadvantage. It was not until afterwards that it occurred to him that by making a stipulation that if the Government approved of the system after it had been tried, they should resume possession, and pay certain compensation, and on that proposition he was now prepared to go into the arrangement. The total cost of working the railway was now a certain amount. Their idea was that this amount should be set apart, and if the Government required such large security, it could be easily seoured by this sum being put aside. He would be no party to leasing the railways for a permanence, but only for a trial, and they had offered a guarantee for that purpose. Mr. Vaile then proceeded to read from the Parliamentary papers the finding of the committee in which they expressed the opinion that a trial should be given to this system. It was considered unfair that the property in one part of the colony should be enhanced at the expense of the rest, and it was, therefore, provided that the local bodies of districts, whose lands would be enhanced, should strike a rate to recoup the loss if any such loss to be calculated on the basis of the last year's earnings. These clauses were only brought forward on the last day of the debate, which had lasted over a long period in the face of an adverse commission. When it came to debating the report, the Hon. Sir H. Atkinson moved, " That the words, 'it is a matter of conjecture, 1 be struck out." The voting was equal, but the Hon. Mr. Mitchelson, who was chairman, gave his casting vote against it, and it was lost. The Hon. Mr. Richardson then moved, " That the Government would not be justified in trying it," bat this was negatived, and so it was asserted by the majority of the committee that, notwithstanding the financial position of the colony, they were justified in griving this scheme a trial.

The Chairman said he was eure they were all grateful to Mr. Vaile for the explanation he had given, and for putting his statement so clearly before them. He (the chairman had drafted the following resolutions, which he would move :—-" 1. That in the opinion of this Chamber the system of administering the railways of the colony is most unsatisfactory, both a» regards facilities afforded to the public and financial results. 2. That this Chamber, having been informed of the offer made to the Government by Mr. Vaile for working the Auckland section of railways, considers the same a practicable one, and recommends that facilities should be provided before Parliament rises for the recess for giving effect thereto." He thought, after Mr. Vaile's statement, and the manner in which he had proved his position following on the report. of the committee, be was clearly entitled to a trial of his system on some section of the railways, provided ho gave a guarantee that the country was no loser. If after a trial it was found to be a failure the country could not lose; but if, as Mr. Vaile said, by cheapening the cost of travel, they would induce people to travel, and enlarge the receipts, then he would prove the position he had taken up, and Parliament might be called on to extend the system to the railways of the colony. It occurred to him that the genius of their rulers was against doing anything on cheap lines. Their postage rates were double those of the Australian colonies, and as compared with those of England they were" monstrously large, It was so with regard to other points, such as their stamp duties,, etc., and their tariff was the largest in the Australian colonies, and so they tied up the elasticity of the people, interfered with enterprise and stopped it, and the life was beaten out of them. If this was the commencement of new things, then the Chamber should support it. He would move the resolutions he had proposed, and hoped some resolution would be arrived at which would be decisive. In moving these

resolutions they would jhrew on Parliament the onus of J ~ " 9 facilities. Providing

Mr. A. H. Nathan, in seconding the ,* lution, said that there was no doubt L 6BO of their minds that so far their r ? a ° : had not been a success, and everybody y hail with joy any change which woi-K away with the present unsatisfactory Idl1 dl of things. The present Ministry Za* their foot down on Mr. Vaile's ,* ** and would give no facilities for its mill, m tion. The 'matter of the mar," Juc of the railways of the colony had £??" quently discussed in this chamber 1L e public meetings, and on all occasion, a' present system was pronounced woS.n deficient. The present Government th 7 i 3 that the remedy for what wSj' deficient was retrenchment, and that reducing salaries they could make it 1? but they knew, as business men thM- ; could not be, and that in their own • ness they would have to look to adminUt a " tion instead of reducing salaries Ti?' original scheme on introducing ,• ? ways, which had been largely &pj£j from, was to settle the land v the question was, had this been" °n lowed up? Had they benefited th back country, and he thought thov m ! answefcin the negative. He thought \l Vaile's system was particularly adapted f the settlement of districts far from th ports. They had no complaint with regard to the suburban railways, where the charwwere reasonable, but if they travelled f 63 they were made to pay for it, and were hi side taxed to pay for the want of produr' tiveness of those railways. He did nr " think the Chamber could do other than s u port Mr. Vaile's proposition, as he guar n teed the country against loss, and agreed t' Government supervision, and that all result should pass through the hands of " th* Government; and he thought they should therefore endeavour to forward Mr. Vailo' views. He had great pleasure in seconding the resolution. " => Mr. Groom asked, had the chairman a* a skilled accountant gone into Mr. VaiF & figures? ' b The Chairman replied that he had not done so, but other accountants had, including Mr. Connell, who had certified that the? were correct. ' J

Mr. Loddeb, said that if there was any reason more than another why this chamber should support this proposition it Waa that it would do away with the present grumbling. He thought it would be wise of the Government to accept Mr. Vailg's challenge, and settle the question once arid for all. Of course it was a difficult matter for the Government, but as Mr. Vail* agreed to accept inspection by the Govern" ment it was only fair that his system should have a trial. For his own part he would rather see the railways sold, and their national debt paid off, but Mr. Vaile was on. posed to this. At all events there was room 'for improvement in regard to freight and other charges, and the Government would do wisely in giving this scheme a trial, ft was now, however, so late in the session that he did not think anything they could do to-day would have any effect except to show the feeling of the Chamber. Mr. Esam said his firm had received »rain from Invercargill, and the freight was 3*d per bushel, while the freight from Te Awamutu was 4 4-5 d per bushel, and the freight on potatoes from Oamaru was much fess than that from Te Awamutu. He had written to Mr. Monk on the subject. .Mr. McLean, of Lichfield, wired for a ton of manure, and he found he could send two tons cheaper than one ton. Captain Steele was invited to address the Chamber. He said there never had been a more important meeting of the Chamber of Commerce than this present one. He considered there was a great deal in the scheme proposed. When Mr. Vaile spoke on the subject in Hamilton, some years ago, he said the deficiency would continue to increase, and what he then said proved true. He might tell them, however, what the Waikato Reform League did, the result of their labours being that the largest requisition ever presented in favour of giving this scheme a trial, signed by people from Auckland to- Invercargill, was presented to the House, and in Waikato ho believed he was correct in saying that 7 out of 10 were believers in the scheme. He (Captain Steele) had taken an active part for the last 30 years in the settlement of the colony, but he was met visit the reply from intending settlers that they found the freights and fares excessive and produce low, and tfere was no inducement to settle. The}' hai every year a glowing statement from the Minister of Public Works as to how well the country was being served, but 'hat was only from the Minister's point of view. A vf.ry intelligent settler, Mr. Reynolds, ot '"•vker ; *.ai l , to whom he had been speaking * vciitly, told him that the price per truck per mile was the same here as in Australia, but there they could put twelve bullocks into a truck, while here they could only put eight. For the last few years things had been very bad in Waikato, and nothing could give it a greater impetus than cheap rates of transit for settlers and their goods, and until such reduction was made they could not get settlement. This surely was preposterous. They had a fine soil, a splendid climate, but until they could get men off and on the land cheaply they could not have settlement. As to Mr. Maxwell's statement that the railway system of New Zealand was perfect, he considered that the man who could make such a statement was no for the lunatic, asylum, and until he was removed no benefit could be got from their railways. Then as to the proposed railway board, he did not think they needed an expert from Europe or America. If Mr. Vaile had come amongst them like the Golden Chariot, with a nourish of trumpets, and put on plenty of side, they would have worshipped him. but he considered they should give him every credit for his perseverance, and the Chamber ought to support him, for he was sure Mr. Vaile had the sympathy of 90 out of every 100 of the country settlers.

Mr. Vaile said, in reply to the question asked by Mr. Groom, he might say that all his letters, no matter in what paper they appeared, had been sent to the head office, where he had no doubt his figures had been closely scrutinised with a view to showing, ii Eossible, that they were incorrect. Captun 'aldy had proved them to be correct, and railway men outside the department, who had visited the colony, had assured him that he was too modest in regard to the amount of increase which he expected, and that it would be far greater than he anticipated. Mr. Win. Conyers, formerly Railway Commissioner for the South Island, gave his testimony i" hu favour. Mr. Stodart, their late* secretary, who was a . thorough expert, approved of it, and Messrs. Moody ana Edmonds testified that it would be of advantage to the revenue of not less than £200,000 to adopt his scheme. On the other side, all the evidence against it was the self-interested evidence of Mr. Maxwell, Mr. Grant, Mr. Hannay, and Mr. Hudson. As to the qualifications of these gentlemen to form an opinion, he read from the answers elicited from Mr. Maxwell, in reply to his (Mr. Vaile's) cross-examination, before the committee, to show that he had no training until he was plumped into toe position of general manager of New Zealan railways. Mr. Vaile then referred totne working of the Whangarei section on nis system, and contended that the Government dared not try the system, as it would prove the maladministration of the past, but« per cent, had been saved at Whangarei, ana if that could be saved on all the New*"" land railways it would be a very large itemThe resolution was then put to the meet ing and carried unanimously. . • On the motion of the Chairman, seconae by Mr. Loddkb, it was resolved to telegram copies of the resolution to the Hon. *£• Mitchelson, Sir George Grey, and Mr. peacock.

This concluded the meeting.