C. CAIRNS BANKRUPTCY.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XXV, Issue 9104, 12 July 1888, Page 3

C. CAIRNS BANKRUPTCY.

A meeting of the creditors in the bankrupt estate of J. C. Cairns was held yesterday morning in the office of the Official Assignee. There were present: The debtor and his solicitor (Mr. E. Cooper), Mr. T. Cotter (for Mr. Marsden), and Mr. S. Hesketh (for E. Porter and Co., W. Peacock, and others.)

The debtor, in answer to Mr. S. Hesketh, said: The total indebtedness under marriage settlement is about £5600, due to the trustees. £"2500 was given to myself and wife to invest in this colony for the benefit of ourselves and family. There was no restriction as to the mode of investment. We got the money in Scotland in 1875, in February or March. In 1882 when on a visit to Scotland, I got a further £100. £40 of this was a' legacy to my wife. These are all the original sums I received from the trustees. We arrived in the colony in July, 1875, and shortly afterwards I invested £2000 of the money at Whakatane, and bought the property at Mangere, &c. The Whakatane money was repaid. I don't know the exact sum. I don't remember what I did with it. It was spent in various ways. I was farming at the time. [Witness was examined at length in regard to various properties he had acquired.] In October, 1885, 1 first gave security to the trustees by mortgages over various properties, including the Kaiwaka Bush, Mount Roskill property, Apple Farm, Tramway shares, &c. All these properties were in my name. There were no documents to show trusts. For the ten years, 1875 to 1885, I never showed any trusts with respect to the properties I was 1 dealing with. To the outside world I was absolute owner. I made some profits from 188'2 to 1885 on my own account. I gave I the trustees security over their own and other properties because I was going into a business I knew nothing about, with partners I knew little about. The only account I have rendered to the trustees was made in October, 1885. 'I he trustees are willing to accept at the present time £2600, allowing for all the sums they have received since October, 1885. The trustees, by my account, want £1065, but they show rather more,—l believe that they would accept £1400 in cash, and give up the securities instead of

£5665. I made the valuations of ; the securities. I put them in my schedule at £1900. If they are nursed they are worth a good deal more. I have no offer to make my creditors. I cannot act for the trustees. {The Bank of New Zealand passbook having been found was given to the debtor.) The £2500 was disposed of as follows-£2OOO 03 July 26, 1875, on the Whakatane, and. £100 to the Mangere property. I had money of my own, and it was mixed with these investments. On July 27, 1875, £200 was paid into the Auckland Savings Bank, and the remainder was invested in furniture, etc., as we required it. The money was drawn out of the Savings Bank, October 22, 1885, and a certain sum raised upon the Whakatane mortgage, to enable me to find £1000 for the purchase of the equity of redemption at Mangere. I am not absolutely certain whether it was £1000 or £1200, but I believe it was £1000. The £2000 Whakatane mortgage was for one year. 1 got £952, balance of the Whakatane £2000 mortgage, on July 26, 1876. I had then £1250. I put £1000 of this into Mangere, and the rest I SDent in purchase of farming stock, etc. Of the £952, there was £800 paid to Aitken on August 15, 1876, but for what I cannot tell. It was part of the £950. At this time there would be about £500 laid out in farm stock and furniture, and interest on the Mangere mortgage. The debtor here promised to make out a statement of the trust investments, etc., showing how the £2500 was dealt with, from July, '75, to February, '82, but he said it would only be approximate. The debtor continued : With regard to my mother's mortgage of £1160, she sent out £850 about 1878. She lifted the draft herself. I received £150 of this money from my mother shortly after she came out in 1878. On March 13, 18S2, I received £200 from a mortgage of hers. I received these moneys as her agent. June 15, 1882, £50 was refunded from an investment I made on her account; June 16th, I- received another £150. Witness was . then cross-examined at considerable length by Mr. Cotter. Mr. Cotter: On probable values, is it not a fact that unsecured creditors to the extent of £1800 will not get Id in the pound, while the marriage trustees get some £2600a1l their money ? The bankrupt said it was not at all certain what the trustees would get. Mr. Cotter : Can you give us an idea of the cost of your living ? The Debtor : I have not calculated it. Mr. Cotter ; Can you give us no idea? The Debtor : When I was well off, the cost of my living was considerable, but for the last twelve months we have not spent over £200. The year before last perhaps £300. I only keep one house. Mr. Cotter : You have had to keep more than onewhere was it ? The Debtor : In Surrey Hills. Mr. Cotter : Why had you to keep it ? The Debtor: Is that a 'question I am obliged to answer ? Mr. Lawson : Yes ; I think so. The Debtor : Ido not think it is a fair question. lam willing to say what it is. I do not think the reason has anything to do with it. It involves a woman's name.

Mr. Cotter : The Assignee has ruled you are to answer it.

The Debtor : Well, because a girl had a child by me, and I thought it right to keep her as long as possible. I think it a d——d unmanly thing to do to ask me this. Mr. Cotter: What is the name We may want to examine this lady as to the furniture put in the house. The Debtor : I will not give it. I will give it to Mr. Lawson. I will not let it be made public. ' Mr. Cotter : Well, I agree^ The Debtor: I think it is an unmanly thing to asK. Mr. Cotter : What I want to find out is the debtor's expenditure of the creditors' money, and whether there is any property available for the creditors that the debtor has not put in his schedule. The Debtor : I will give to Mr. Lawson where it is, and the name of the person who has it. '

Sir Wm. Wasteneys: To whom does the furniture belong ? The Debtor : To the lady. Mr. Cotter: hen did you give it to her ?

The Debtor : When it was bought. Mr. Cotter : What is the date ? The Debtor : August 20, 1886, is the first entry for rent for Surrey Hills place. Mr. Cotter : What about the furniture ? The Debtor : I put very little in. Mr. Cotter : Well, where is the entry for it in your cash book ? The Debtor : March 15, 1886.

Mr. Cotter : What is that entry ? The Debtor : £50. That gives the name. The debtor here handed the name to Mr. Cotter, saying, " I do not care for myself ; I care for my mother, my wife, and the girl herself." Mr. Cotter : Was that £50 given for her to buy furniture? The Debtor : No. I gave it to her to use because I thought I owed it to her, in order that she might have something to invest. Mr. Cotter : Did you give her anything ? The Debtor: Not more than 10s per week and rent, living accounts. . I paid her some principal sums. The 10a per week is not entered. Ibis pub in private sundries. The debtor was further examined in reference to his payments on account of the house at Surrey Hills. Mr. Cotter : How many children has that lady got now? The Debtor :Aml to tell that What has it to do with it ? I object to answer unless I am forced to. Mr. Cotter: I press it. It will have much to do with the bankrupt's conduct. Mr. Cooper : I doubt if Mr. Cotter has any right to ask the question. Mr. Cotter : The Official Assignee directs him to answer. The Debtor; I will give it to the Assignee. I object to the Press having it. Mr. Cotter : I have nothing to do with the Press. » Mr. Cooper : I would ask, are those two the debtor children ? The Debtor : I decline to answer. Mr. Cooper: I shall ask the Official Assignee to conduct the examination. I think the proper manner is a private examination, and strictly in private. There is no provision that it shall be public. Mr. Hesketh : There is no provision excluding the Press. Mr. Cooper : I should like you to show us any clause making it public. The Debtor : I put it to you all as gentlemen nob to make public the names. Mr. Cotter : You may call her Jones if you like, so far as I care. Mr. Cooper : This is in hope that in all this exposure some offer will be made. Mr. Cotter : In order that the creditors shall not be put out of their money bo enable the debtor to keep a harem. The Debtor : A harem ! Mr. Cotter : It is worse than that. Mr. Cooper : It is nob a proper thing for a public examination, and I shall advise the debtor nob bo answer any questions while the reporters are present. Mr. Cotter : I have nothing to do with the reporters. Mr. Hesketh : The bubble is burst in any case. Mr. Lawson : I think we had better go on. The Debtor to Mr. Cotter: You want to Mr. Cotter : I want to have you place your creditors in the same position the trustees are in. The Debtor : My position and yours is— Mr. Cotter: My position is, I pay my debts. Yours is that you have not. That is the difference between us. The Debtor: Some day you may require some consideration yourself, perhaps. At this stage of the proceedings it was suggested that the meeting be adjourned, andean adjournment was had bill Tuesday next at ten o'clock.