PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XXV, Issue 9104, 12 July 1888, Page 6

PARLIAMENT.

fBY TELEGRAPH. —PRESS ASSOCIATION. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Wednesday. The Speaker took hia seat at half-past two p.m. , THE CHINESE BILL. Dr. Pollen reported that the free conference on the Chinese Bill had been unable to arrive at a settlement of the question THE CUSTOMS BILL. The debate on the second reading of the Customs and Excise Duties Bill was resumed by Mr. Miller, who condemned the method proposed for obtaining further revenue. Mr. Pharazyn also condemned the Tariff. Mr. McLean said the Bill was a compromise, and he did not know that a better Tariff under the circumstances could be constructed. Mr. Waterhouse said the Council must pass the Bill,"although no doubt distasteful to hon. members, especially as many thought the Government had not exhausted all sources of economy. The Council adjourned at 5 till 7.30 p.m. On resuming at 7.30, the motion for the adjournment of the debate on the Customs Bill was agreed to by 13 to 3. MISCELLANEOUS. The Fencing Act Amendment Bill was read a third time and passed. The Christchurch Rifle Range Bill and the Opawa Education Reserves Bill were further considered in committee, and reported with amendments. « The Council rose at 8.10.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Wednesday.

The House met at 2.30 p.m. Mr. Hamlin, in the absence of the Speaker, again took the chair.

ANSWERS TO questions. Replying to questions it was stated that the Government intended making local bodies pay the interest due on securities now held by the Government for trust funds and other purposes ; that the whole question of the mail services between Great Britain and New Zealand would be submitted for the consideration of the House. TRAMWAYS BILL. The House went into committee on the Tramways Act, 1872, Amendment Bill. Mr. Menteath asked that the Bill be postponed for a few days, as the matter was now under the consideration of the Municipal Corporation of Wellington. Sir H. Atkinson said the request was not unreasonable, but he should suggest that the Bill be allowed to go through the committee, and he should undertake that it should not be read a third time till the Wellington Corporation had held their meeting to consider it. If any amendments were desirable afterwards, he should agree to the recommital of the Bill for that purpose. Mr. Menteath said he understood the Dunedin Corporation were unfavourable to the Bill.

Sir H. Atkinson said he should not consider it his duty to abandon the Bill because it was opposed by any particular corporation. It was a general question. Clause 2, penalty for running vehicles on a line or rails of tramways : without a license.

Mr. Menteath drew attention to the hardship that would be inflicted by this clause in cases where the wheels of any oar ! or carriage nearly corresponded with the rails of a tramway. He again asked the Premier to postpone the Bill for a few days. Mr. Fish said the Bill was brought in to prevent the Omnibus Company in Wellington from running on the tramway line. There was no necessity for it in any other part of the colony. Mr. Buchanan asked whether a penalty would be imposed by the Bill on any express waggon that happened to get on' the tramway line ? Sir H. Atkinson said certainly not, unless they wilfully used the line. After further discussion Sir H. Atkinson Said he was quite prepared to strike out that portion of the clause providing for the onus of proof being thrown on the defendant. . Carried. t Sir H. Atkinson moved to further amend the clause by making the penalty apply to vehicles not carrying passengers or goods for hire. Lost Oft the voices. Mr. Fish moved to strike out the words, "or nearly corresponding with," referring to*the gauge of the tramway. Dr. Fitchett said if this were agreed to it would render the Bill inoperative. Mr. Peacock also opposed the amendment, and said if wheels were made to nearly correspond with the tramway rails they would do more damage than if they exactly, corresponded. Mr. Fish then withdrew the amendment, and the clause was agreed to. Mr. Ward moved a new clause, providing that the proprietors of tramways drawn by one horse should only be called on to maintain that part of the road lying between the rails. Lost on the voices, and the Bill Was reported with amendments, which were ordered to be committed on Friday. native land bill, Mr. Mitchelson moved the second reading of the Native Land Bill. The feeling among the Maoris, he said, was that the time had come when they should be allowed to deal with their land as they liked. Many representations had been made to the Government, who had come to the conclusion that the wishes of the natives should be acceded to. In consideration of 'this, it was thought the Maoris should be made to bear taxation as well as Europeans, and consequently .it was proposed to render their lands amenable to rating. He was aware the natives strongly objected to this, but when the matter was looked into closely, the proposals of the Government would be seen not to be unfair. Briefly stated, the Bill repealed the Native Land Administration Act, and allowed the natives to alienate their land if they chose, subject to provisions preventing their denuding themselves of the whole of their property. Protection was afforded to existing contracts and documents, and finally all rating Acts would henceforward apply to native lands. This would not come into force in the King Country and Thermal Springs district until July 1, 1891, by which time it was expected the land would have passed through the Native Lands Court. It was intended to refer the whole of the native Bills to a joint committee of both Houses, by which means it was hoped a measure would be perfected that would not require to be amended for many years. The House adjourned at 5.35 p.m. The House resumed at 7.30 p.m. Mr. Ballance contended that the Bill did not coincide with the views Mr. Mitchelson had expressed during the recess, an® he (Mr. Ballance) had expected some explanation of this change. He agreed that landsharking lately nad not been successful; but it was because they had bought too dearly, and could not get roads through their lands to open them up. He denied that the measure could be properly called free trade in native lands. The Government said the

existing law was a failure, and they must have all the land thrown open without distinction. He reminded the House

that the present Government had been clamorous when in opposition for the acquisition of native lands, and had insisted on money being set apart for the purpose. He insisted they could not now overlook the question of settling the land at present locked up in native hands, yet the Bill would enable larere tracts to be bought and turned into sheep runs, to the exclusion of settlement. He defended the

policy of his Government, and asser ted it had the unanimous approval of all the Maori members, a thing quite unprecedented. He urged that some restriction should be inserted in the Bill to prevent a monopoly. The area to bo purchased by one buyer should be limited. He quoted an instance of a transaction in which ex-

Governor Fergusson was said to be concerned, to give point to his argument?. As to the rating proposals it would be quite impossible to collect the rates until the title was individualised. The proposal was quite unworkable; besides, the natives already paid special fees on the salo or lease of their land. Another difficulty he saw was that the Native Land Courts would neir work so enormously increased that they vould never get through it. On the whole he thought the expense and trouble of these native Bills would be more than the good they would effect. One effect would be the abandonment of the Northern Trunk Railway. He objected very strongly to handing over the Bill to a ' Committee.

Mr. Hutchison thought the Equitable Native Owners Act should either be re" pealed or a clause inserted dealing with titles proved before 1874. He was strongly opposed to the imposition of rates, and in other respects took much the same ground as Mr. Ballance. In the Land Court Bill he noticed a clause which could only be intended to cloak illegal acts and clothe them with the sanctity of a land transfer title. He hoped the House would never consent to it. He took a number of other legal exceptions to various items in the native Bills. Mr. Hobbs supported the Bill, with the exception of the rating clauses. It would, he said, give relief to both Europeans and natives. He had always advocated that the natives should be encouraged to individualise titles. He would like to see the penalties made more stringent for meddling with land till it had passed the Court. He denounced Mr. Ballance's native Bills as most mischievous. Mr. Beetham commended Mr. Ballance's manliness in admitting his Act had been a failure. He thought these Bills a step in the direction of finality, but did not approve of pressing natives to pay rates at the present juncture. Mr. Kerb thought the native Bills were I what ho called a legalised swindle, and merely designed to whitewash doubtful transactions in native land. Mr. Carroll said he shared Mr. Hutchison's objection, but in the main supported the Bill so that it might be thoroughly threshed out in committee. He was in favour of striking out a new line, and agreed with the plan now proposed. He was afraid Clause 4 would open the door to some very doubtful transactions, and he disliked the rating clause. He thought that wherever the Maoris seemed anxious and able to be put on the same standing as Europeans it should be done. Mr. Buchanan supported the Bill, but thought the question of levying rates should be carefully looked into. Mr. Graham warmly supported the native policy now announced. Mr. Taipua explained his reasons for disliking the Bill of 1886. Most of the disputes had been brought about by the Government purchases. He would like to see Maoris allowed an opportunity of devising land laws for themselves to see if they could not do better than the Europeans had in the past. As to this Bill, it was the worst they had ever had. The Government had not consulted the natives. The rating clause was especially objectionable. He could not support the measure.

Mr. Pratt thought the whole tenor of the Bill unfavourable to the Maoris. He had expected it would apply only to land, and not bring in a side issue, such as taxation. The natives in the South Island should not be allowed to sell their land. He was opposed to the proposal to refer the I measure to a joint committee. Mr. Smith should prefer to see one comprehensive measure instead of four amending Bills. He thought the Government ought to have kept the pre-emptive right in their , own hands. The area of purchases must be restricted if they were to prevent a monopoly, and precaution should be taken to promote settlements. . Mr. Taiwhanga contended that the native difficulty would soon be removed it they were entrusted with the management of their lands. He was not in favour of the Bill, and hoped to see it referred to the Native Affairs Committee. Mr. Rhodes thought it would be a great mistake to allow any of the natives in the South Island to alienate their land. Messrs. Kelly and Cad man* supported the measure. Mr. Mitchelson having briefly replied, the second reading was carried on the voices. . On the motion to refer to a joint committee, Mr. Taxpua moved, as an amendment, to refer it to the Native Affairs Committee. Lost by '28 to 27. The House rose at 12.50 a.m.