THE PURCHASE OF STARK'S LAND.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XXIII, Issue 7719, 18 August 1886, Page 6

THE PURCHASE OF STARK'S LAND.

In our Saturday's impression wo gave the report of Mr. Alison's second examination (he was examined three* times). We now give the examination of Mr. Oliver Maya :— The Chairman : The committee are inquiring into the purchase by the Government of Mr. Stark's property at Takapuna Point. You have been a long time resident in that district ?— For twenty-five years. You are Chairman of the County Council —I am. Cau you give any idea as to the selling value of this property—twenty-eight acres 1 —My own opinion at the time that the purchase was made by the Government was that if Mr. Stark got £10,000 for it he would be well paid. Do you know if the property has been for sale ?—Mr. Ross told me, about a year ago, I think, that a part of Mr. Stark's property had been offered to him. I asked him what he was going to eivo for it, and he told me either £3000 or £3500 I am not sure which. I said that it was a fair price. Other offers I have heard mere rumours of. What do you think it would have sold for if it had been sold publicly ? —I do not think, it would have made more than £10,000 without reference to the fortification scheme. Do you think Mr. Stark would have got as much as that for it?— Yes, I think he would. It is a very nice place indeed. There are men who would have given that for it, although there was a falling off in the demand for laud at that time. If it had been forced at auction I question whether he would have got so much for it; but he would by waiting for a customer. Do you know whether he was anxious to sell it? —I believe he was, though I have no personal knowledge of the matter. Mr. Daugavillk : Are you aware of any transactions in land in the neighbourhood of this property? —1 have been out of business for the last three years, aud the rise in land just commenced when 1 retired from business. Are you aware that any of these adjoining properties have changed hands within the last two years, and at what prices Mr. Morrison bought four acres from Mr. Stark on the other side for £75 an acre ; but there is no comparison between the two sides. Do you know Mr. Hammond's purchase ? —I do. How would that stand in comparison with Mr. Stark's property a? regards value?—l think the two properties are much the same. The site is equally good, I was trying to buy it myselfAt per acre the one would be as valuable as the other Yes, quite. With reference to this allotment on the south side of Stark's property, if it were cut up it might be expected to realize as much if not more, per foot than the other ?—Yes. Assuming that this sold from £1 15s to £2 10s per loot, would it be fair to expect that Mr. Stark would realize anything approximating this ?—Yes ; it would realize more.

Assuming that this property changed hands at £400 or £500 per acre, would it be fair to estimate that the other would approximate that price ?—lf a man bought the block for £300 or £400 an acre, he ought, by waiting his time, to get rid of some of the allotments. But my impression is that he would have to wait a long timo before he realized that price. Do you know Mr. Ewen Alison as a speculator in land ?—I do. Has he been successful, as a rule?—He has. Ho is what would be called a smart land speculator, is he not?— Yes; he has been more successful than any of them—more so even than Mr Stark. And if he were to effer £15,000 or £10,000 for this proparty, with a view of selling part to the Government, leaving two or three acres with the house, and cutting up the rest of it into allotments for building purposes, would he have a prospect of making anything out of it —Not for many years to come. Within a period of five years ?—No. Are you aware that he has been speculating in various other parts of the district; that he has given so high prices there as to lead his friends to predict that he would lose over the transactions ; and he has yet come out of them with piofit ?—I do not know it of my own knowledge. I know he has given high prices, and has made a profit, but not in connection with such large areas as this.

Assuming tint this property was worth £16,000t0 be paid for £2UOO cash, £14,000 bearing 5 per cent, over a period of five years, what would you estimate its present cash value to bp. generally ?—I can only say weat I woula offer myself : I would not give more than £10,000. If I were selling the property I would rather take £10 000 in cash than tho terms yon suggest. Mr. Peacock : When do you think the value of property wa3 at its highest in Devonport ? —About two years aao. You say you knew of tha offer made to Ross of the property ?—Yes. Do you know Mr. Kingsford?— I do not know him personally ; I know who he is. Is he a respectable man ?—I believe so. You are not aware that he was offered the property?—l have heard it to-day for the first time. bo you know Mr. Le Bailly ?—I do not know him personally. He is a highly respectable man ?—Yc3. If he stated that the property was in his hands, and offered to Mr. Roberts, you would believe it ?—Yes. Do you consider the part where the house stands to be the most valuable part of the property ?—I am convinced that it is. If you were buying ten acres of it, that is the part you would select?— Yes. Dr. Newman' : What business have you been in? Have you ever been an estate agent?— Yea ; I was in business generally as storekeeper, general agont, postmaster, &c. Have you had many transactions in laud ? —I never speculated in land myself, but acted only as agent for others, When were you treating with Mr. Hammond for the purchase ?—A few weeks ago. At what price? — I asked a friend what price he wanted, lie said £1500 for three and s-half acres. My supposition was that it was five ajres ; and, as it was a particular spot, that my family wanted, I was prepared to offer £1000 for it ; but I was toil! he would not take it. i would have made an offer in proportion for the three and a-half acres but would not have offered £1000 if I had known it was only three and a halt" acres. I then tried for Professor Thomas's, the next place ; and I made au offor of £1"20.) for one and a-half acres. He wanted £1800, and i ceased negotiations.

What was the valua of the house on that one and a-half. acres ?—I should think the premises would represent £1000 : he has spent a good deal of mouey on tho place. What was the value per acre of Stark's property in November last, without the house ?—I would not have given more than £•200 per acre. But I should not buy a place as a speculation, hut as a home. Do you think that the property cut up, about the time it was suggested, would average anything like £2 10s pi-r foot ?—1 have no doubt the front lots would, if they were held on. I do not think that the middle subdivisions would.

Would the back sections?— They would have a fancy value in the eyes of some people, having sea frontages, but there would not be the same demand for them. If it were cut up with streets, etc,, would all the sections fetch £1 10s per foot? —No, I do not think so. Do you know the house ?—Very well. What is it worth ?—lt is a curious kind of building. It is very elaborately finished, and must have cost quite £1000. And the other buildings ?—I do not know much about them. Mr. Stark has drained the place and fenced it thoroughly. It was very boggy when Mr. Hammond had it. Do you think the house and other buildings would be worth £3,500? —No, I think not. He may have spi'ut £2000 or £2500, to cover all improvements. Mr. Wilson* : Were you ccnnulted as to the value of this property by any one at any time previous to the purchase ?—Mr. Brewer came to mo one day, and asked me if I knew the land. I said yes, but the only information I could give him was as to the offer to Mr. Boss, to whom I referred him. Mr. Cowan : What date wa3 this inter, view with Mr. Brewer ?—I could not say the date, but it was some time last year. Mr. Brewer called a day or two afterwards, and I took him down to Mr. Seaman's offioe. His eon showed us the note [book where the valuation had just been made ; and x must confess that I was startled to find the valuation was £15,600. Mr. Seaman subsequently told mo that Stark had agreed to the valuation. I did not then know anything about the taking of land for defence parposes. Mr. Wilson : You did not offer any ad vice to Mr. Brewer? —jS'o. Did Mr Brewer ask your opinion as to the value of the property '!—No; and I did not offer any opinion ou it.

Was he present when you expressed surprise at the valuation ?—No. I did not mention my surprise at all. Has any other person consulted you as to the value of the property ?—No. Mr. Barron : Have you ever been asked as a matter of business, to value property for purposes of lending money on mortgage ?— Frequently. Have you had within tho last two or three years opportunities of arriving at such ideas of the value of property in the Devonport district as would warrant you in answering a question as to the value of this property of Mr. Stark's if you were asked by a private person or a company desirous to lend money on mortgage as to the value it would be worth for that purpose? —L have explained that I have been out ot business for three years, and that all the rise in the value of property commenced just after I left business ; and I have never been called upon to value since. I really know nothing except from rumour. I know that very hign prices have been offered ia buvonport. I have been offered high prices myself. Taking all these considerations, could you mention an amount which you consider it possible to raise on this property by way of mortgage? Taking into consideration all the most favourable circumstances, could you mention an extreme amount that it would be possible to get from a prudent moneylender? —11' I had been called upon at that time for my advice as to how much might have been lent, I should not advise any one to lend more than £10,000 at the outside. Hon. Major Atkinson* : Do you know Mr. Philcox ?—Yes. Is he a respectable man ?—Yes. Is he a man whose word could be taken ?— Certainly ; although 1 must say that he is one of a party who are very bitter, and are carrying their bitter feelings to very extreme lengths indeed. Ha has been carried away somewhat in personal animosities over this ferry company, Or. Nev.'jus : You said that the value of the property would have been high at £10,000 : then would you advise any one to lend money on mortgage up to its full value?—l was asked to name the extreme amount, and I mentioned thit sum ; as an ordinary precaution I should lend '25 per cent. les3 than that. I should mention a feeling that has arisen in my mind independently of my own opinion of the value of the property. In my opinion the iil-feeiing in connection with this matter has arisen rather from the method of acquiring the property than in regard to the commercial value of it. If the property had been acquired in the Compensation Court, and even the full amount now given by the Government had been put upon it, there would not have been a word said about it. I think the system is a bad one, and tends to impugn the veracity of good officers. If the land had been taken in the ordinary way, and both parties had gone into the Compensation Court, and if the Court had awarded even £20,000, there would not; have been a word of dissatisfaction. I believe the whole matter has been stirred up by the bitterness of feeling now existing, I do not want to impugn other people—l am on friendly terms with every, one of them—but I do not think this agitation is entirely patriotic on their part. My impression is that if the land had been taken under the Public Works Act there would have been no agitation at all about it.

Supposing it had been before a Corupensa" tion Court, do you think the Government wouldh.ive got the valuation reduced ?—I said before that I think the limit would have been £10,000. It might, however, have been above that.

You think then, that if the Government had fought the case, they would have got the land at a less price ? —I believe so.

And you are aware that there has been a great deal of agitation about it ?—I am quite sure of it—the whole matter has arisen from local circumstances.

Mr. Dargaville : Supposing that Mr. Seaman, Mr. Ashton, and Mr. Brewer had been called in as witnesses for the Crown in a Compensation Court, ana were to depose that this property was worth from £15,000 to £20,000, what effect would it have on the Court's decision —It is impossible to say. They might easily get rebutting evidence. Knowing a3 you do the tendency of assessors and juries generally to favour the claims of individuals against those of large bodies, woald you no; be inclined to assume that the price awarded would be higher than your estimate?—l know it is generally accepted that a Government ie fair game for plunder, but I do not believe in that doctrine myself. But, assuming that the Government's own witnesses were to depose to the effect I have mentioned ? —lt would materially affect the case; but I do net assume that the Judge would be influenced. I am assuming that those witnesses would give evidence in the direction in which they have already expressed their opinions ; and I ask yon, in view of that, whether quite a different complexion would not be put on the nutter?— doubt the Court would be iuiiuenccd thereby. Mr. Peacock : Yon have stated that £10.000 would bd the outside valu°. Would there be any difficulty in Auckland in getting competent witnesses who would have a similar opinion?—l think you would get scores. Dr. Newman : If the case were tried before a Court, and it the Crown tried to set evidence showing that the property was not worth so much, would they have any difficulty in doing so —I do not think they would, They could have got Mr. Philcox, for instance ?—Yes, I suppose so. Mr. Cowan* : From your knowledge, is there anything to warrant this property, valued at £3500 in 1882. rising—twentyeight acres of it—in ISSS to £15.600? —I think it is quite unwarranted by the general transactions in the neighbourhood. Dr. Nkwman : You are chairman of the County Council? —I am.

What is the valuation of the property 011 the Road Board hooks 1 -I was a member of the Board in ISS2, and the Board elected to make their own valuation. I did not sit at all its meetings ; and it was afterwards that I heard that this property, which had been valued at £7000, had been reduced by the Board one-half. Was the valuation made by a valuer or by the Board?—By the Board. Stark and Alison were members of the Board at the time. The valuation of some other properties was reduced at the same time. They elected to make their own valuation, although 1 preferred that of the property tax assessor. The Chairman* : By whom was the property tax valuation made ?—By Mr. Seaman. iio had valued it at £7000 '/—He told me 30. He stated that it was put down by mistake as £3500 ?—I understood him to say that his valuation had been reduced by the local Board by one.half. Mr. Wilson' : Did you hear that Stark proposed standing for Waitemata '!—I did. Was there any likelihood of it?l do not think he ever stood a chance against Hurst. The ChaiumiN: Was Mr, Tanner mentioned as valuer ?—Yes ; but the Board, sitting as a Board, chose to direct him what to do. They made the assessment, and he wrote it down.